Whole Home Surge Protection vs Surge/Line Conditioners - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 48 Old 12-22-2011, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I'm sure I'm going to just get BLASTED for this, but I gotta ask.

I know pretty much everyone has their own opinion on the subject of power conditioners, and I'm trying to form my own. I've read countless threads on the subject, and it seems as though the best solution for surge protection is to have something installed at your circuit breaker. I am not electrically inclined AT ALL, so please excuse me for my stupid questions.

I live in Kansas City and my electrical company is KCPL. On their website, they mention something about meter based surge protection.

Is this what others are talking about? Does that leave any gaps in coverage? Is there a better or cheaper solution (KCPL charges $6.00/month with free installation and 1 year commitment). If I have that, do I even need a surge protector at the wall outlets in my house?

Ok, now on to power conditioning.

I have no idea if I need power conditioning or not and I have no idea of what the impacts would be if I need it and I don't have it. I've been thinking about buying a Panamax M5400 at BB and trying it out, and returning it if there are no differences. I spoke with a guy at the Magnolia store the other day and told him that I've heard from multiple people that power conditioning is a scam, and he said he couldn't disagree with me more. I know they're not on commission, so either he is ill informed, or I am.

I've seen that there are even much more expensive power conditioners than the M5400 (like $3k+), and maybe it's THOSE that provide a benefit, therefore skewing his thoughts.

If my BB has the M5400 tonight, I might pick it up and try it out. I just feel like I need to prove it to myself (finally), so I can move on with finding other cool stuff to add to my A/V system. The problem with trying it out though is that I have no way to measure the improvements, so it will need to be a drastic improvement in order to keep it (because small improvements may be there only b/c I want them to be).

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post #2 of 48 Old 12-23-2011, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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bump

xbr75x900E and JVC RS420 with Elite 120" screen
Receiver - Yamaha RX-A3060/RX-A3000, WXA-50 MusicCast Amp for Zone 2
L/C/R - B&W CM9/CMC2, Side - DS3, Rear - CM5, F/R Atmos - CCM663
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post #3 of 48 Old 12-23-2011, 10:42 AM
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It sounds to me like what your power company is talking about is a whole house surge protector. It appears to be a little expensive, however. I purchased an Intermatic unit online for about $60, it required two additional 15A circuit breakers at about [email protected], and one of my neighbors (a licensed electrician/electrical contractor) installed it for a twelvepack of Bud. He told me that he would have normally charged about one hour labor (including driving time) to install it.

Adding additional in-line units is up to you, I find them unnecessary for my purposes, except that I installed seperate protection for my phone lines.

In my opinion "power conditioning" is a scam and the sales staff at Magnolia/BB are trained to parrot the company line with no basis in science. But again, that's my opinion. Others might disagree

Cheers,
SB
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post #4 of 48 Old 12-23-2011, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I went to Best Buy Magnolia tonight to buy a Panamax 5400 but they don't carry them in that store. I ended up buying a M5300.

I'm planning to do some comparisons with and without the box to see if I notice any grand improvement. I doubt I'll see $500 worth of improvement, but I had to try it out.

I told the guy at BB that there's a large chance that I'm just gonna return it, and he was just fine with that. He did mention, however, that he thought I'd hear a bigger improvement with changing my speaker cables from monoprice to audioquest.

Once I have eliminated the power conditioner from my list of things that I might need but don't provide any improvement, I'll move on to testing the speaker cables.

Since I'm a silver reward zone member, I have 45 days to complete my testing before I return the product. We'll see how it goes!

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post #5 of 48 Old 12-23-2011, 05:06 PM
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That guy is full of poop. Cables are cables period! Best Buy makes about 85 cents on the dollar on cables. Cables are the biggest scam in the world. Good luck

SDS
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post #6 of 48 Old 12-23-2011, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetmeat View Post

bump

Please don't "bump"... if people have an answer for you, they will provide it, tho maybe not as quickly as you'd like. As to your question...Whole house protection is always better..I use this on my house:

http://www.raycapsurgeprotection.com...ies-Final1.pdf

And while you're buying cool stuff at BoxBusters..you might want to consider buying this power cable to help with your power issues:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/AudioQue...ustomerreviews

There are customer reviews for most of the Audioquest products at BoxBusters to help you out. You may want to read the reviews on their HDMi cables and give them a try too. Especially this HDMi cable. Good Luck!

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/AudioQue...hdmi&cp=1&lp=2

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post #7 of 48 Old 12-23-2011, 07:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdfox18doe View Post


Please don't "bump"... if people have an answer for you, they will provide it, tho maybe not as quickly as you'd like. As to your question...Whole house protection is always better..I use this on my house:

http://www.raycapsurgeprotection.com...ies-Final1.pdf

And while you're buying cool stuff at BoxBusters..you might want to consider buying this power cable to help with your power issues:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/AudioQue...ustomerreviews

There are customer reviews for most of the Audioquest products at BoxBusters to help you out. You may want to read the reviews on their HDMi cables and give them a try too. Especially this HDMi cable. Good Luck!

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/AudioQue...hdmi&cp=1&lp=2

For some reason I sense a bit (well, what the heck - A LOT) of sarcasm in your message. Not sure why.

xbr75x900E and JVC RS420 with Elite 120" screen
Receiver - Yamaha RX-A3060/RX-A3000, WXA-50 MusicCast Amp for Zone 2
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post #8 of 48 Old 12-23-2011, 07:38 PM
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Hi Sweetmeat - I have something similar to this.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...APC-_-42101419

I have plugged my AV equipment into the outlets that say "surge only". Router, etc. are plugged into the battery (+ surge) outlets.

You might be better off talking to a local electrician (someone you know, or at your local Home Depot or Lowes). I need to get a whole house surge protector myself. Please share anything/everything you find out .... Good luck!
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post #9 of 48 Old 12-23-2011, 09:46 PM
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Hey Sweetmeat,

I'd suggest doing both whole house and individual outlet surge protection. The whole house will protect against large surges and the individual surge protectors will help with smaller surges that get past the whole house defense. I've also been told that the individual ones will protect against surges that originate within the house from other appliances/electrical items, that the whole house one won't cover. I'm a double up on safety sort of guy, so maybe this isn't all necessary.

As for the value of the whole house program offered by your utility provider, what services do they provide for the monthly fee? Monitoring of the device? Free replacement of any blown fuses? Etc... If that service were offered by my provider I would take it in an instant, assuming they covered the things I just mentioned.

Lastly, my general rule is to never listen to anything someone at Best Buy tells me. Maybe some of them actually have legitimate knowledge that they provide without an ulterior motive, but many (most?) do not. Especially disregard that speaker wire advice. Would you really trust a company that tries to sell THIS?

Keep us updated on your choice and experiences.
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post #10 of 48 Old 12-24-2011, 04:37 AM
 
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Whole house surge protection is your best bet and your electric company's price is very reasonable if it includes installation. Whole house surge protectors are not very expensive but most electricians around here charge $350+ to install them.

For in home protectors look for ones that have passed UL adjunct testing. This does not mean it has a UL sticker, that is for safety purposes. UL adjunct testing is an OPTIONAL test manufacturers can elect to submit to and will give a performance rating in different areas. You want one with their best A, 1, 1 rating which neither monster, panamax or APC have.

If I were only going to do one surge protector the whole house one is the way to go. Any small surges that get by it would be unlikely to harm any equipment. The exception to this is if you have power problems within the home like light dimming when something with a motor turns on.
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post #11 of 48 Old 12-24-2011, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSaull View Post

That guy is full of poop. Cables are cables period! Best Buy makes about 85 cents on the dollar on cables. Cables are the biggest scam in the world. Good luck

agreed... highest profit margin item in the store and they run competitions and incentive programs constantly for their sales people on them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetmeat View Post

For some reason I sense a bit (well, what the heck - A LOT) of sarcasm in your message. Not sure why.

he just wanted to be a dick... I thought your question and post was logical. So did numerous other people as well obviously.




No one has answered whether they thought power conditioning was valid or not yet. Are you guys afraid to share you opinion for fear of being flamed?
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post #12 of 48 Old 12-24-2011, 08:02 AM
 
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Quote:


No one has answered whether they thought power conditioning was valid or not yet

Yes, they have.

Quote:


Are you guys afraid to share you opinion for fear of being flamed?

I don't think anyone's afraid of anything.

Quote:


he just wanted to be a dick

Why the personal attacks?
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post #13 of 48 Old 12-24-2011, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetmeat View Post

Ok, I'm sure I'm going to just get BLASTED for this, but I gotta ask.

I know pretty much everyone has their own opinion on the subject of power conditioners, and I'm trying to form my own. I've read countless threads on the subject, and it seems as though the best solution for surge protection is to have something installed at your circuit breaker. I am not electrically inclined AT ALL, so please excuse me for my stupid questions.

I live in Kansas City and my electrical company is KCPL. On their website, they mention something about meter based surge protection.

Is this what others are talking about? Does that leave any gaps in coverage? Is there a better or cheaper solution (KCPL charges $6.00/month with free installation and 1 year commitment). If I have that, do I even need a surge protector at the wall outlets in my house?

Ok, now on to power conditioning.

I have no idea if I need power conditioning or not and I have no idea of what the impacts would be if I need it and I don't have it. I've been thinking about buying a Panamax M5400 at BB and trying it out, and returning it if there are no differences. I spoke with a guy at the Magnolia store the other day and told him that I've heard from multiple people that power conditioning is a scam, and he said he couldn't disagree with me more. I know they're not on commission, so either he is ill informed, or I am.

I've seen that there are even much more expensive power conditioners than the M5400 (like $3k+), and maybe it's THOSE that provide a benefit, therefore skewing his thoughts.

If my BB has the M5400 tonight, I might pick it up and try it out. I just feel like I need to prove it to myself (finally), so I can move on with finding other cool stuff to add to my A/V system. The problem with trying it out though is that I have no way to measure the improvements, so it will need to be a drastic improvement in order to keep it (because small improvements may be there only b/c I want them to be).

I give a huge plus one on whole house protection. It was $160 installed for us.

There are a number of threads on this issue and the really credible opinions side with whole house protection.

As for line conditioning, it seems most people are pretty skeptical of it.
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post #14 of 48 Old 12-24-2011, 08:58 AM
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Some random thoughts -

"Power Conditioning" is generally BS. It's a feel-good snake oil product designed to enrich the people who tout it and nothing more.

Your home appliances will not cause a surge. They cannot make more power than is already coming into your house through the mains. If you have things going on like lights dimming when a motor, e.g. furnace blower, refridgerator, etc, kicks on the problem is in your house wiring, connections, breaker panel, etc and should be repaired by an electrician.

If a decent quality whole house surge protector that is correctly installed at the main panel or meter and is properly connected to a sufficient ground won't catch an incoming surge what makes anyone think that an add-on device is going to do any better? The idea is to send the surge directly to earth (ground) by intercepting it before it can get inside the house through the house wiring and do its damage. Any surge protection is not completely fool-proof all of the time. Nothing will protect your equipment from a direct hit from a lightning strike, for example. That's what your insurance policy is for. You do have a full replacement value insurance policy, don't you?

Your power company's charge for their surge protection might seem reasonable depending on the going rates in your area, but weigh it carefully against how much it will cost you to have an independent electrician install it combined with how long you intend to live in your present home. For example, if your going to live there for ten years that's $720 for surge protection. Just do the math.

Fancy speaker cables? Sucker bait if there ever was such a thing. You want to spend some money to make you feel good? Donate it to a worthy charity. Best Buy and their "salesmen" certainly don't qualify.

There are several informative threads on this 'site that deal with these topics. Perform a diligent search and get educated.

I've got my flame-proof britches on, so those of you who feel like it - flame away

Merry Christmas,
SB
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post #15 of 48 Old 12-24-2011, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM64 View Post

Yes, they have.

I don't think anyone's afraid of anything.

Why the personal attacks?

It wasn't a personal attack. I called his post like it was. He wanted to be a smart ass and use his post to attempt to get a rise out of the OP. The post was EXTREMELY sarcastic. derdyder... $1000 HDMI cable... so funny. I've never seen that before.

Atleast he left a link to some surge protection help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpotcheckBilly View Post

Some random thoughts -

"Power Conditioning" is generally BS. It's a feel-good snake oil product designed to enrich the people who tout it and nothing more.

Your home appliances will not cause a surge. They cannot make more power than is already coming into your house through the mains. If you have things going on like lights dimming when a motor, e.g. furnace blower, refridgerator, etc, kicks on the problem is in your house wiring, connections, breaker panel, etc and should be repaired by an electrician.

If a decent quality whole house surge protector that is correctly installed at the main panel or meter and is properly connected to a sufficient ground won't catch an incoming surge what makes anyone think that an add-on device is going to do any better? The idea is to send the surge directly to earth (ground) by intercepting it before it can get inside the house through the house wiring and do its damage. Any surge protection is not completely fool-proof all of the time. Nothing will protect your equipment from a direct hit from a lightning strike, for example. That's what your insurance policy is for. You do have a full replacement value insurance policy, don't you?

Your power company's charge for their surge protection might seem reasonable depending on the going rates in your area, but weigh it carefully against how much it will cost you to have an independent electrician install it combined with how long you intend to live in your present home. For example, if your going to live there for ten years that's $720 for surge protection. Just do the math.

Fancy speaker cables? Sucker bait if there ever was such a thing. You want to spend some money to make you feel good? Donate it to a worthy charity. Best Buy and their "salesmen" certainly don't qualify.

There are several informative threads on this 'site that deal with these topics. Perform a diligent search and get educated.

I've got my flame-proof britches on, so those of you who feel like it - flame away

Merry Christmas,
SB

Thanks for you input. Atleast you weren't sarcastic about it posting links to items that dont even really exist.
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post #16 of 48 Old 12-24-2011, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, here are my thoughts on the M5300.

1). Looks cool with my other equipment
2). There was JUST enough outlets (10 rear, 1 on front) for the equipment I have
3). Install was super easy once I decided what equipment I wanted to be "always on" - there are 4 outlets and I used all of them (router, modem, harmony charger, entertainment center light). I have not installed the switching cord.
4). I've read that separating power cords from speaker cords is important to "keep the noise" out. This is easier done in my setup with the M5300.
5). I never noticed any audio/video or electrical problems before, nor do i live near an airport or other places with a lot of RF, so I'm probably the least likely customer that could benefit from this product. The displayed volts has only fluctuated between 120 and 123.
6). I haven't tried blu-ray yet, but so far I have not seen or heard any grand (or even small) improvements. I would not consider myself a critical listener.
7). An extra Ethernet and coax cable is included in the box. This is needed if you plan to run either your Internet or D*'s cable through the M5300. The problem is I could have used another coax cable since I wanted to run my Internet and D* through the box first. Without the second coax cable, I chose to run the Internet cable through only because it allowed me to relocate the modem and router to a more desirable place.

8). The coax cable Input and outputs are not clearly specified on the box.
9). The install is definitely cleaner than using a regular surge protector
10). All of my equipment is pretty good to begin with.

AVR - Yamaha RX-A3000
TV - PB59D8000
Speakers - B&W CM9's, CMC2 and CM5's

Bottom line - I do not feel that the positives above are worth ~$550. I might be willing to pay ~$200 for those conveniences, so I think I'll look for other cheaper options (maybe the APC model mentioned in a previous post).

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post #17 of 48 Old 12-24-2011, 11:54 AM
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Perhaps an older model or different brand?

The Monster HTS 3600 is on Amazon for $230 and has 10 outlets...


http://www.amazon.com/Monster-MKII-1...=2LEQ5IO9QJBAP
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post #18 of 48 Old 12-24-2011, 12:47 PM
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[quote=ten8yp;21393400
At least you weren't sarcastic about it posting links to items that dont even really exist.[/quote]

You probably should read more before posting a rude personal attack,All of the links provided are for real products available from Best Buy.
(Except of course for the surge supression I have, which is a commercial product requiring professional installation total ~$2k or so.)

Most long term members here are aware of the the "snake oil" reputation
of Monster products. Having worked in retail I am aware of the profit margins they carry too. As SB says..Perform a diligent search and get educated. Most questions asked here can be answered in advance with a little reading. And if you can't take tongue in cheek sarcasm and be able to see thru it..life will be tough for you.

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post #19 of 48 Old 12-26-2011, 08:27 AM
 
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Quote:
I've read that separating power cords from speaker cords is important to "keep the noise" out.

Keep reading. Some of this crap has no basis in reality.
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post #20 of 48 Old 12-26-2011, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
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I think AVS should perform tests on these "snake oil" products (power conditioning, speaker wire, HDMI cords, etc) and post the results. Has that been done already and I'm just missing it?

It sure would be easier to look at actual results than having to rely on other people's opinion (that may have been formed upon someone else's uninformed opinion).

There are tests for everything else, why not these "snake oil" products?

If I had the tools necessary, I'd do it.

xbr75x900E and JVC RS420 with Elite 120" screen
Receiver - Yamaha RX-A3060/RX-A3000, WXA-50 MusicCast Amp for Zone 2
L/C/R - B&W CM9/CMC2, Side - DS3, Rear - CM5, F/R Atmos - CCM663
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post #21 of 48 Old 12-26-2011, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetmeat View Post

I think AVS should perform tests on these "snake oil" products (power conditioning, speaker wire, HDMI cords, etc) and post the results. Has that been done already and I'm just missing it?

It sure would be easier to look at actual results than having to rely on other people's opinion (that may have been formed upon someone else's uninformed opinion).

There are tests for everything else, why not these "snake oil" products?

If I had the tools necessary, I'd do it.

I would like to see this as well, but the results might offend a few forum sponsors.

*************************
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post #22 of 48 Old 12-26-2011, 11:28 AM
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Years ago I worked with the late Neil Terk on testing a new antenna. He was a great guy and a brilliant marketer. He told me what one specific model we we comparing the test unit to cost him to make vs what it retails for...With a really big grin that is. Field testing proved the 2 antennas worked no better than the old fashioned standard ugly channel master and winegard antennas.

http://www.ce.org/Events/Awards/7473.htm

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post #23 of 48 Old 12-26-2011, 11:48 AM
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There's a pretty long thread somewhere here (might be a different forum) with almost the same name; in fact, I thought this was it resurrected.

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post #24 of 48 Old 12-26-2011, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Sweetmeat View Post

I think AVS should perform tests on these "snake oil" products (power conditioning, speaker wire, HDMI cords, etc) and post the results. Has that been done already and I'm just missing it?

It sure would be easier to look at actual results than having to rely on other people's opinion (that may have been formed upon someone else's uninformed opinion).

There are tests for everything else, why not these "snake oil" products?

If I had the tools necessary, I'd do it.

I've never heard about any of the companies that manufacture or sell these kind of products whom are willing to provide their products for independant blind or ABX testing. There's a reason why

I don't know you, and I don't intend to be insulting, but it seems to me that you've got an awful lot to learn. There are many threads on this Forum that discuss exactly what you're talking about, including links to tutorials about speaker cables and interconnects, ABX testing, video presentations on this subject, and a cash prize amplifier challenge just to name a few. Perform a diligent search. People here are trying to guide you, but you must take the initial steps yourself.

That is, of course, unless you just want an excuse to buy this crap, are a "true believer", and are desperately searching for some justification to ignore common sense but feel guilty about it

Cheers,
SB
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post #25 of 48 Old 12-26-2011, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpotcheckBilly View Post

I've never heard about any of the companies that manufacture or sell these kind of products whom are willing to provide their products for independant blind or ABX testing. There's a reason why

I don't know you, and I don't intend to be insulting, but it seems to me that you've got an awful lot to learn. There are many threads on this Forum that discuss exactly what you're talking about, including links to tutorials about speaker cables and interconnects, ABX testing, video presentations on this subject, and a cash prize amplifier challenge just to name a few. Perform a diligent search. People here are trying to guide you, but you must take the initial steps yourself.

That is, of course, unless you just want an excuse to buy this crap, are a "true believer", and are desperately searching for some justification to ignore common sense but feel guilty about it

Cheers,
SB

Spotcheck -

You're not insulting me. I would say that I have searched, searched, and searched some more on the topic of power conditioners, and all I ever found was a bunch of opinions from multiple people. I don't know who those people are either, so it's hard to put my complete faith in their opinion. I would feel much better about making an informed decision based on test results, as I'm sure most people would. If you know of a specific thread that has test results from power conditioner vs. no power conditioner, I would love to look at it.

Right now, based on all of the information I've read, I too believe that they aren't "worth" it, however I'd like some proof. If they are beneficial, I have the money so I might as well get one. If they aren't worth it, I'll return the one I have. I just want to know that there's some proof and it's not just a bunch of opinions from people.

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post #26 of 48 Old 12-26-2011, 05:07 PM
 
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If you live in an area that is prone to lightning than a surge protector is worth it. Many people have electronic devices plugged in for years and never have a problem. Surges are not all that common is some areas and very common in others. Also, surges are not as damaging as brownouts.

If you look at the average home and think about all the items not plugged into a surge protector such as digital clock, cell phones, small TV, microwave with digital display, etc. How may of these have had problems caused by surges?

If you are looking at what is the best protection for you equipment from surges, here is how they rank.

1. Proper grounding in your house
2. Whole house surge protector
3. Surge protector that doesn't use ground. UL rated A,1,1.
4. A DISTANT last. Surge protectors that use gound at the outlet. ie most consumer surge protectors. In some instances they can do more harm than good.
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post #27 of 48 Old 12-27-2011, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Sweetmeat View Post

Spotcheck -

You're not insulting me. I would say that I have searched, searched, and searched some more on the topic of power conditioners, and all I ever found was a bunch of opinions from multiple people. I don't know who those people are either, so it's hard to put my complete faith in their opinion. I would feel much better about making an informed decision based on test results, as I'm sure most people would. If you know of a specific thread that has test results from power conditioner vs. no power conditioner, I would love to look at it.

Right now, based on all of the information I've read, I too believe that they aren't "worth" it, however I'd like some proof. If they are beneficial, I have the money so I might as well get one. If they aren't worth it, I'll return the one I have. I just want to know that there's some proof and it's not just a bunch of opinions from people.

Here's a start -

http://blog.makezine.com/archive/201...dispelled.html

This linked info has appeared at least twice on this Forum within the last couple of years.

Cheers,
SB

ps- If you're looking for a 10 outlet power distributor that will allow you to organize your power cords as you described earlier check out the Furman D10-PFP. It will take care of your needs wilthout all of the Bulls***t for about fifty bucks, available at places like Sweetwater or Parts Express.
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post #28 of 48 Old 12-27-2011, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpotcheckBilly View Post

ps- If you're looking for a 10 outlet power distributor that will allow you to organize your power cords as you described earlier check out the Furman D10-PFP. It will take care of your needs wilthout all of the Bulls***t for about fifty bucks.


Yea.. I use Pulizzi's like this..you can get'em cheap too if you pay attention.
And they have excellent internal line filtering. And some are black faced.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pulizzi-IPC3...item45ff928d41

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post #29 of 48 Old 12-27-2011, 10:17 AM
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I recommend a service entrance protector AND separate surge protectors for all sensitive equipment. Also make sure that your cable/telephone lines have surge protectors.

I use a Panamax GPP-8005 service entrance protector. It seems to not be made anymore but it cost me around $150 for everything plus a couple of hours of my time if you include going to the store to buy the circuit breaker it needed.

I forget who makes the surge protector that I have for my cable line but the cable comes into my house right next to the electrical and thus right next to the electrical panel, and I've got it grounded to the panel with a short 10 gauge wire (I like overkill when it comes to ground).

In addition, I have various other power strips and UPS and such, and my cable line is actually filtered through a second surge protector that is built into one of my power strips before it heads into my cable modem. I don't have cable TV but I used to and that was also filtered through a second surge protector (a different one). I've also been wanting to get an ethernet surge protector to go between my modem and my router because I feel that one can never have too much surge protection... but that's where I have drawn the line so far. (Meaning I want it but I don't want to spend the money for it because what I already have should be good enough.)

Also, to the guy who said that motors cannot make your power dirty: You are incorrect. First of all, motors often need a LOT of power to get started and starting capacitors are used to lessen the impact but large motors are always going to appear basically as dead shorts when they are first started up. I have 200A service in my house through a brand new Square D QO box and my wiring is up to spec and I do get just a little bit of dimming when my heat pump/air handler kick on. Smaller motors like my refrigerator do not do that.

Poor quality motors can also inject harmonics and such back into your power line the same way that a fuel pump in a car can (which can cause issues for us car audio guys). I would state that appliances sold today do tend to be pretty good and most should not be a problem, but the potential for a problem does exist. It's more relevant for those people who still, for some reason, have 30 year old freezers hanging out in the basement/garage wasting power and dirtying their power lines.

Quit on 1/23/2020 due to constant "file not found" errors on the server while trying to submit posts. It's one problem for your server to have an issue but totally different for it to, day after day, continue having issues that don't get fixed. The time we spend writing this content should not be considered so worthless that the server should feel free to destroy our content.
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post #30 of 48 Old 12-27-2011, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonoMan View Post

Also, to the guy who said that motors cannot make your power dirty: You are incorrect. .

That is right..also..incoming power company feeds..bad UPS's.. switching power supplies, as well as CFL bulbs... can also feed noise and harmonics back onto the line as well.

The only way to find out what is going on is to use a PQA. That is how we found a bad 75kva UPS was generating massive 2nd and 3rd order harmonics killing switching power supplies. No Panamax or Monster Crap will make up for such anomalies.

http://www.hioki.com/newproduct/3197/3197_e.html

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