The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 33 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #961 of 11955 Old 07-11-2012, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

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Interestingly, Audissey set my Polk Monitor 60's to large and the sub crossover to 120 which surprised me given it's touted capabilites. I set thr fronts myself to small and the LFE to 80 and we'll see how that goes. I think I may boost the sub up slightly. Do you suggest doing that on the sub itself or within the receiver?
all covered on my website smile.gif
http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html#audyssey
The LFE LPF is NOT a crossover, also covered at my website as well as the Audyssey 101/FAQ: https://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/51750#user_c5

Very informative:)
So this
Following the logic from the question above, here are some good rules of thumb for how to handle crossovers after running Audyssey:

Do not lower the crossovers below where they were set -- your speakers have been measured not to be able to produce them effectively!

If any crossovers are set below 80, raise them up to 80Hz and let the subwoofer handle these ultra-low nondirectional frequencies (remember also that the subwoofer has higher resolution filters to correct the tricky low-end response).

Make sure that no speakers have been set to "large" especially if they can't actually handle full range signals. You can read a great article on this topic by the founder of Audyssey, Chris Kyriakakis, by clicking this link.


Is telling me I should put the X-over back to 120 where Audyssey set it but keep the fronts to small. I think that's what you are saying but want to be clear.

Pat
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post #962 of 11955 Old 07-11-2012, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I will repeat: the LFE LPF is NOT a crossover smile.gif

read that second link....

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post #963 of 11955 Old 07-11-2012, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Pat - FYI, the lack of analog assignability is mentioned prominently in my setup guide smile.gif although some of the language is a bit dated since the xx13 models have restructured the menus, the principals are still the same -- http://batpigworld.com/setup.html
If you look on the back of the receiver, you only have two "names" that you can use for analog composite video+ audio: CBL/SAT and DVD
These two inputs are fixed (not assignable) so you have to use one of them for the VCR (although remember you do have the alternate option of simply connecting the VCR to the TV directly and bypassing the receiver).
However all the other inputs are assignable, and you have lots of potential "names" to work with. You don't have to physically switch anything, just reassign in the menus. If you look on pg 111 of the manual (Input Assign) you can see all the potential names you can use, so (assuming you still have more names than input sources) just make sure that the input name (CBL/SAT or DVD) that you use for the VCR has nothing else assigned to it. If you start to run out of input source names you can "stack" one input name, but that's probably not necessary here.

You can also use the MEDIA PLAYER inputs for your composite video and audio VCR. That's what I decided to connect my VCR to, then you have the first four HDMI ports that you can use for other devices.

Dan
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post #964 of 11955 Old 07-11-2012, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mchrisbrown View Post

Thanks, I think I may have found another answer as well. I just went down to my audio dealer to test the Goldear speakers and had a side conversation about HDCP/HDMI/EDID negotiation problems. They do tons of custom installations and he has seen these problems before and recommends a product by Key Digital which is model number HDDA 1x1. He says the way this product handles EDID (new term to me) is the key to solving handshake issues. As I understand it both the display and the AVR talk to this box in the middle and not to each other. More info here: http://www.keydigital.com/items.asp?ItemCode=KDHDDA1x1&Company=KEY . It would still be nice to know if the 4311 would work with my Panny display without a box as it seems that every solution to all of my problems is add more cables and boxes to make things work...

An HDMI Detective Plus would likely accomplish the same task for far less cost.
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post #965 of 11955 Old 07-11-2012, 12:27 PM
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What I should have said was....

Can you control the volume of the new denon receivers via HDMI-CEC control when using the Panasonic GT50 factory remote?

I know each manufacturer is different but I was spoiled with the "ease of use" when I tried out a new Panasonic sound bar.

When you set the tv up to output through a home theatre via Viera Link everything worked seamlessly.

Unfortunately I was not happy with the lack of width to the soundstage or the impact of the subwoofer.

I am currently rethinking my sound system and researching the 1713 as I only require a 5.1 set up for a small den and I already own a Paradigm Ultracube 12 and a Cinema 110 center channel.

I may pair the receiver with a passive 5 channel speaker bar as rears are currently out of the question.

Can someone please comment on thier experiences with the CEC controls and other devices?

Cheers,
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post #966 of 11955 Old 07-11-2012, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

An HDMI Detective Plus would likely accomplish the same task for far less cost.

Thanks, this does look to have the same or similar functionality for less cost - nice.
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post #967 of 11955 Old 07-11-2012, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I will repeat: the LFE LPF is NOT a crossover smile.gif
read that second link....

Alright, got it now. Found the crossovers too:D Changed them from 40, 40, and 60 to all 80. Left the LPF at 120 and changed all speakers to small.
Check.

Pat
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post #968 of 11955 Old 07-11-2012, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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great! smile.gif how's it sound?

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post #969 of 11955 Old 07-11-2012, 02:56 PM
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Well, I'm not sure but it appears that something is different in the 2113ci vs the 2112ci in terms of output of HDMI over cat-6. I've tried several suggestions and brought the receiver up to the tv and hooked it up directly via the hdmi extender (8158). This extender is a new one since I was trying to find something that worked that included the splitter. If I hook up the splitter directly to my U-Verse box, I get the signal working fine.

My current setup is to hook up the Denon 2113ci to the hdmi splitter to the receiver to the tv. This results in a No Signal message on the tv and nothing showing up. I've tried it with all of the Output Settings and still nothing.

So, my question (beyond why the same setup that worked for the 2112ci won't work with the 2113ci) is how else can I get the Denon to output to the tv since there is only the HDMI out port. I know it has a Video Out but that isn't even Component from what I understand so I wouldn't want to use that. I did try having the HDMI port come out to a HDMI to Component switch and then to TrippLite Component over Cat-5 connector. However, that doesn't appear to work either because the HDMI out must not like getting converted? Is the only other way to use a different HDMI switch and only use the audio via the Denon? That's very disappointing considering I want to be able to display the airplay feeds and the internet feeds that are playing.

Thanks!
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post #970 of 11955 Old 07-11-2012, 03:19 PM
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It sounds great! I am coming from a pretty high end Marantz (SR-8400) and think it sounds just as good or better to these untrained ears. Could be the advanced calibration for sure. I haven't had the chance to watch a movie with it to really test it out, but expect to be pleased.
I also think the Polk Monitor 60's sound great to my ears. Paired with the Energy S10.3 sub I think I got a pretty great bargain basement priced setup!
Thank again,
Pat
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post #971 of 11955 Old 07-11-2012, 09:47 PM
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i just got my Polk Monitor 60's and a CS2 front to replace the front 3 from my Onyx Rocket Tykes setup (**********)...anyway. when in stereo mode I get no sub, We are only in this mode when listening to music, I understand that the speakers now being calibrated to the large setting probably has something to do with this, but I would like to still be able to use the sub when listening to music because the 60's are great for 5.1, but lacking the bass when listening to music. I hope this isn't too confusing of a post, but is there a way to listen to music in a 2.1 setup?

just did some searching, if i were to change things in manual mode it will disable all the audyssey stuff won't it?

further edit: PLII music will output the sub, but it is also 5.1, which we don't like for music. and for some reason my 1913 quit outputting the network video information, everything else seems to work correctly, just seems to be a flaky AVR
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post #972 of 11955 Old 07-12-2012, 04:29 AM
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^^
If, after running AUTO SETUP, you reset all speakers to SMALL w/minimum of 80hz crossovers (as is suggested), the low bass frequencies in STEREO mode will "always" crossover to the sub.
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post #973 of 11955 Old 07-12-2012, 04:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jp9219 View Post

My current setup is to hook up the Denon 2113ci to the hdmi splitter to the receiver to the tv. This results in a No Signal message on the tv and nothing showing up. I've tried it with all of the Output Settings and still nothing.
So, my question (beyond why the same setup that worked for the 2112ci won't work with the 2113ci) is how else can I get the Denon to output to the tv since there is only the HDMI out port.

If all connected sources will pass through the HDMI output to the TV without the extender(all be it at a shorter distance), it would seem you need to either replace the current switch/extender or get another extender with more added signal strength. Keep in mind that passing a source directly to the TV (eg. U-Verse box) is not the same as passing it through an HDMI-repeater (ie. AVR).
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post #974 of 11955 Old 07-12-2012, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
If, after running AUTO SETUP, you reset all speakers to SMALL w/minimum of 80hz crossovers (as is suggested), the low bass frequencies in STEREO mode will "always" crossover to the sub.

i read that last night in the FAQ after i posted:o

i can still use all the audyssey settings even after changing some things in manual mode?
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post #975 of 11955 Old 07-12-2012, 07:33 AM
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^^
Yes ... Audyssey only applies the filters while the Denon applies the actual speaker/sub settings.
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post #976 of 11955 Old 07-12-2012, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

If all connected sources will pass through the HDMI output to the TV without the extender(all be it at a shorter distance), it would seem you need to either replace the current switch/extender or get another extender with more added signal strength. Keep in mind that passing a source directly to the TV (eg. U-Verse box) is not the same as passing it through an HDMI-repeater (ie. AVR).

Hi JD! Thanks for the post. I understand that plugging a source through the AVR is different than plugging it straight into the TV. However, here is the scenario I'm testing because I'm skipping the whole source into the AVR and passing it through. All I'm trying to get to show up on the tv is the Denon GUI menu.

Denon 2113ci -> HDMI Extender switch -> cat-6 cable -> HDMI Extender receiver -> TV

If I REPLACE the Denon in the above scenario with any of my other eletronics, they show up fine on the TV. So it doesn't appear to be the extenders causing issues. Again, if this were an issue with the sources being passed through the AVR, I'd probably be thinking about it differently but I am only trying to get the GUI menu to show up and I'm getting nothing.

Thanks!
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post #977 of 11955 Old 07-12-2012, 08:09 AM
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Regardless of whether the switch works with other devices, if you can pass your sources through the AVR to the TV when the switch is NOT in the signal path, ... you can either replace the AVR for another model/brand or replace the switch ... your choice.
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post #978 of 11955 Old 07-12-2012, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Regardless of whether the switch works with other devices, if you can pass your sources through the AVR to the TV when the switch is NOT in the signal path, ... you can either replace the AVR for another model/brand or replace the switch ... your choice.

Well I agree but I've tried three different HDMI extenders at this point and none of them are working so I'm guessing it is going to be a difficult task finding one that works. My comments were more along the lines of pointing out that the previous model (2112) and the new model (2113) are not functioning the same with the same setup. The extenders are fine and work. Apparently, Denon has changed something in their HDMI out. Obviously, that leads me to either another receiver or adapting the system to work with the Denon still in place. My guess is I will work on bypassing the Denon for the video and just use the switch to send the signals to the tv and pull the audio through the Denon.

Thanks!
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post #979 of 11955 Old 07-12-2012, 08:26 AM
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The 2112CI does not have a video card installed while the 2113CI does. What happens if you set Video Conversion to OFF? Or what happens when you leave it ON and set the Resolution to 720p (rather than Auto)?
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post #980 of 11955 Old 07-12-2012, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The 2112CI does not have a video card installed while the 2113CI does. What happens if you set Video Conversion to OFF? Or what happens when you leave it ON and set the Resolution to 720p (rather than Auto)?

When I set it to 720p, nothing changed. In looking through some troubleshooting stuff, I just messed around with turning off the Video Conversion. One thing I didn't know before was that with Video Conversion turned off, the GUI menu doesn't always behave very well so I tried plugging the Apple TV in to see if it would send through a source (even though the GUI wasn't displaying). Success!!! So, to note, I can get the video to send out if I turn off Video Conversion and plug in a source (lose access to the GUI Menu but that isn't that big of a deal for me). This is why I love this forum, whenever I've given up, the suggestions make me go do something a little differently and everything works out! Thanks JD!!!
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post #981 of 11955 Old 07-12-2012, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
Yes ... Audyssey only applies the filters while the Denon applies the actual speaker/sub settings.

The small vs large really only applies to the crossover settings right?

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
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post #982 of 11955 Old 07-12-2012, 09:51 AM
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post #983 of 11955 Old 07-12-2012, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jp9219 View Post

When I set it to 720p, nothing changed. In looking through some troubleshooting stuff, I just messed around with turning off the Video Conversion. One thing I didn't know before was that with Video Conversion turned off, the GUI menu doesn't always behave very well so I tried plugging the Apple TV in to see if it would send through a source (even though the GUI wasn't displaying). Success!!! So, to note, I can get the video to send out if I turn off Video Conversion and plug in a source (lose access to the GUI Menu but that isn't that big of a deal for me). This is why I love this forum, whenever I've given up, the suggestions make me go do something a little differently and everything works out! Thanks JD!!!

Correct. Video Conversion must be enabled for the GUI to display. It had just dawned on me about the differences between the two models and that the issue might be related to the video card so glad that works for you. smile.gif

If you want to be able to use Video Conversion (ie. GUI), consider purchasing this --> http://www.amazon.com/Cables-Go-42223-RapidRun-Inserter/dp/B001AJP3PM?tag=5336055023-20
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post #984 of 11955 Old 07-12-2012, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morbeas View Post

So I'm trying to decide between the 2313CI and the 3313CI (I'm starting a brand new setup - currently just have a Sony soundbar). Is it worth the extra $300? I just want to future-proof myself as much as possible.
Thanks in advance.

Anyone?
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post #985 of 11955 Old 07-12-2012, 10:47 AM
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You mean in addition to my post responding to you an hour after you made your post? rolleyes.gif
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post #986 of 11955 Old 07-12-2012, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
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JD already answered you -- there is a detailed comparison of these two models at the beginning of this thread. Either you want the extra features, in which case it's worth it, or you don't, in which case it's not.

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post #987 of 11955 Old 07-12-2012, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Correct. Video Conversion must be enabled for the GUI to display. It had just dawned on me about the differences between the two models and that the issue might be related to the video card so glad that works for you. smile.gif
If you want to be able to use Video Conversion (ie. GUI), consider purchasing this --> http://www.amazon.com/Cables-Go-42223-RapidRun-Inserter/dp/B001AJP3PM?tag=5336055023-20

I'll give it a shot and see if it helps get the GUI and video conversion back. I'll report back when I get it. Thanks!
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post #988 of 11955 Old 07-12-2012, 12:38 PM
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Jesus I must be blind, my apologies.

I do know that this thread has comparisons but since I'm new to the whole "receiver" thing, I was looking for others' opinions.
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post #989 of 11955 Old 07-12-2012, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Morbeas View Post

Jesus I must be blind, my apologies.
I do know that this thread has comparisons but since I'm new to the whole "receiver" thing, I was looking for others' opinions.

Morbeas - my opinion - fwiw - I went for the 3313 about a week ago.

I was choosing between the following:
2313
3312
3313
4311

My speaker setup is - polk monitor 70's, cs2 and 3 pairs of monitor 30's - 2 for surrounds, two for zone 2 using surround backs posts, 2 for zone 3 with el cheapo receiver. I just got a SVS PB12-NSD sub yesterday.

I wanted the 3rd zone, so 2313 was out. I don't have audiophile speakers, so it was kind of hard to justify getting the 4311. Maybe in a few years, I'll upgrade my whole setup and get the high end Denon out at the time. If I was buying during the ~$550 amazon gold box sale for the 3312, it's possible that I would have gone that way. But I wanted to get an AVR now. And the price difference for independent airplay and hdmi zone 2 was worth it for me.

That said, I am sure there are other ways (maybe better and/or cheaper) to get what I wanted - Apple TV, HDMI splitters, speaker splitters, etc. But I think it's pretty cool to try to get everything you want in one package.

PLUS - Many, Many, MANY thanks to jd,batpig,and chris (fellow jerseyite here) for all of your help. You guys put together an invaluable resource and, to be honest, as corny as it sounds, it's one of the reasons I got a Denon. Thanks guys!

ok - now feel free to rip into my decision to get a 3313!
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post #990 of 11955 Old 07-12-2012, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

the former... that being said, it helps to have the noisemakers to take advantage of it...
i'll add to the people saying "buy a xt32 equipped avr" to get xt32... the pro kit is a completely separate piece of software, that will work with either xt or xt32 (if the cem implements the api)...

So does xt32 add something to the mix if used with a pro kit calibration or is standard xt just as good then?
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