Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion - Page 355 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 1025Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #10621 of 10639 Old 09-30-2019, 02:03 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 195
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by malmstump View Post
Yea horseflesh ,o am very happy that I finaly get my 818 up and running and also picked up the 809 with same issue and repaired it same way both working like a charm although I prefer the 818 audessey xt32 is superior..but I am grateful now I started it every morning and bam it works and no more unplugging a thousand times untill speakers come on ..

Glad you got it working but note that this is only a temporary fix. As the attached document shows, the part used in the NR818 (D830K013BZKB4) will wear out. I find that they are typically "done" after 18,000 hours. The permanent solution is to replace the part with the "D rev" part (D830K013DZKB4). Unfortunately, these parts aren't available (lots of fakes that are simply re-balled "B Rev" parts from china out there) so the best method is to buy a broken HDMI board from eBay (later models like the NR646 used the "D Rev" part), remove the part, reball it and install it on the old board. I have done this at least 5 times on NR818's and over 50 times on other models.



In your case, since a reflow worked, it means that several of the solder balls broke off. Heating up the chip allows them to re-attach but it doesn't solve the issue of early failure.



https://media.digikey.com/pdf/PCNs/T...114000_Obs.pdf




HTH
Todd
Attached Files
File Type: pdf TI Replacement Digikey.pdf (55.2 KB, 6 views)
TJMotter is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #10622 of 10639 Old 09-30-2019, 02:08 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 195
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by horseflesh View Post
Pretty cool, glad you got it fixed.

When I got mine done, the guy at the shop said that the replacement parts were updated somehow, so hopefully it won't happen again. If it does, I will consider doing it myself.

If Onkyo worked on it you will have the new "D Rev" part which doesn't wear out however, you could still see broken solder balls emerge over time. Unfortunately this is a bi-product of the industry move away from lead based solder. The Silver based solder they use now is brittle and will eventually crack as the board flexes.


Note that a heat sink will NOT help with this issue. The primary issue is that the board is too thin and warps slightly as heat is generated by components under it. When the board flexes too much, the solder balls crack free. A "reflow" like malmstump did will usually re-attach them but I strongly recommend using heat resistant tape and tin foil to mask the area off or you risk some of the parts around the DSP shifting and/or falling off. There is a decent write up at the attached link:


http://repairalmostanything.com/thread/78/








HTH
Todd
TJMotter is offline  
post #10623 of 10639 Old 09-30-2019, 04:29 PM
Advanced Member
 
malmstump's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 743
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 176 Post(s)
Liked: 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJMotter View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by malmstump View Post
Yea horseflesh ,o am very happy that I finaly get my 818 up and running and also picked up the 809 with same issue and repaired it same way both working like a charm although I prefer the 818 audessey xt32 is superior..but I am grateful now I started it every morning and bam it works and no more unplugging a thousand times untill speakers come on ..

Glad you got it working but note that this is only a temporary fix. As the attached document shows, the part used in the NR818 (D830K013BZKB4) will wear out. I find that they are typically "done" after 18,000 hours. The permanent solution is to replace the part with the "D rev" part (D830K013DZKB4). Unfortunately, these parts aren't available (lots of fakes that are simply re-balled "B Rev" parts from china out there) so the best method is to buy a broken HDMI board from eBay (later models like the NR646 used the "D Rev" part), remove the part, reball it and install it on the old board. I have done this at least 5 times on NR818's and over 50 times on other models.



In your case, since a reflow worked, it means that several of the solder balls broke off. Heating up the chip allows them to re-attach but it doesn't solve the issue of early failure.



https://media.digikey.com/pdf/PCNs/T...114000_Obs.pdf




HTH
Todd
Hi Todd, I appreciate the heads up and info to the link ...
I'm running it right now as is and hunting down another 818 and might try the chip replacement method with the d version
A question ,can I scoop a d version hdmi board of a newer 646 or any x4x model and just replace the chip and resoulder?
I'm waiting to see how long this reflow will last ..also have a friend that can help soulder or take it to proper shop that does that professionally as I do not want to damage the 818

klipsch klf-30 s Vizio p65
klipsch klf c-7 x 2
klipsch klf-20 s
onkyo tx Nr-818 soon denonx4500
3 crown xls 2502 1 xls 1502, HSU vtf-15 Mk 2
malmstump is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #10624 of 10639 Old 09-30-2019, 06:25 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 0
I have this exact same problem. Primary HDMI output no longer works, which means no onscreen menus. Secondary works, but I can’t do setup, Audyssey, and it’s extremely limited otherwise. I get that same 3-57 error when trying to flash. Anyone know of a fix for this? Or any repair place that still fixes these in the Seattle area?

Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLIMaxPower View Post
We're in Perth, AU and had the hdmi-board replaced under warranty a year or two ago It's 5 or 6 years old from new. Apart from that the unit has been faultless and used daily for home theatre / tv with addition of a rotel amp for most of the pushing duties.

Last weekend we had a scheduled power outage, which had triggered a firmware update after the power returned. I was informed that nothing would show on the tv, even though the devices were turned on. Our TV is display only - the tx nr 818 drives our home theatre / tv

The display panel showed F/W update and showed net update. I chose yes, waited for the amp to shut down again. Waited for an hour then started looking online.

I tried powering off full and disconnecting power. Turned off other devices/unplugged.

Retried flashing via NET. error 3-57.

Power off again and tried reflashing via USB. error 3-57

Version: 1141-4104-??01-0000.

It will probably cost a few hundred at least just to be seen.

Distributor says this, quote " The situation with your unit is that either the VSP firmware cannot be seen during the update process ( represented by ?? in the firmware number ) or the firmware in the chip is corrupt causing a check sum error. In either case it will require attention at a service centre.

Unfortunately this has happened at power on/off stage." end quote


At this point there is still no video going to TV, but NET audio works and probably the other devices.

usually leaving power our for a long time should force a new update.. or can I do something via the rs232 port ??
proteus77 is offline  
post #10625 of 10639 Old 09-30-2019, 07:00 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 195
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by malmstump View Post
Hi Todd, I appreciate the heads up and info to the link ...
I'm running it right now as is and hunting down another 818 and might try the chip replacement method with the d version
A question ,can I scoop a d version hdmi board of a newer 646 or any x4x model and just replace the chip and resoulder?
I'm waiting to see how long this reflow will last ..also have a friend that can help soulder or take it to proper shop that does that professionally as I do not want to damage the 818

Yes, that is what I do. There are several vendors on eBay who sell broken boards. They tend to have a lot of them which implies that they are repair depots. x4x are good as are the RZ800 and RZ810 boards. IIRC the Integra xx.5 series also use this chip. You can also make an x3x work. The x3x uses the 500Mhz part (ends in 5 instead of 4) but Onkyo uses a higher frequency clock for those so when you install them in an NR818, the run happily at 400Mhz.

I should add that the x5x boards won't work. Onkyo moved to a completely different DSP on these newer models and the pinout and software are completely different.

You will need to "re-ball" them but there are kits on eBay for this. Feel free to PM me if you need more detail.

Last edited by TJMotter; 09-30-2019 at 07:14 PM.
TJMotter is offline  
post #10626 of 10639 Old 09-30-2019, 07:10 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 195
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by proteus77 View Post
I have this exact same problem. Primary HDMI output no longer works, which means no onscreen menus. Secondary works, but I can’t do setup, Audyssey, and it’s extremely limited otherwise. I get that same 3-57 error when trying to flash. Anyone know of a fix for this? Or any repair place that still fixes these in the Seattle area?

Thanks!

The on-screen display and the MAIN HDMI OUT are driven by the QDEO chip (the square chip marked as "MARVEL" near the HDMI1 port). The "SUB" output routes through a different chip. Whenever I see issues with firmware updates not working on the "VSP" or I see issues like the MAIN OUT not working it usually means that some of the critical solder balls on that chip have cracked. The process is the same as fixing the DSP chip where you "reflow" the chip by applying "no clean" flux around the base of the chip, insulate the area with something to protect the rest of the components and then apply heat. I use something called "Kapton" tape for insulation along with a layer of tin foil to keep the heat away from the plastics in the HDMI ports. The Kapton tape (a yellow high heat tape available from Mouser.com) holds the rest of the parts down so they don't detach and the tin foil keeps the high heat away from the plastic parts. I then heat the chip with a high flow of 435 degree (celsius) for 90 -120 seconds. It is important to use "no clean" flux for two reasons, 1) it cleans the pads and facilitates the solder to reattach and 2) it is not corrosive like regular flux so it won't hurt the board if you can't clean it all off. Once complete, I remove the tape and use a small paint brush dipped in isopropyl alcohol to clean area up.


HTH
Todd
TJMotter is offline  
post #10627 of 10639 Old 10-04-2019, 01:29 PM
Member
 
6sj7gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Firmware upgrade questions

As far as I know my TX-NR818's firmware has never been upgraded. I have questions:

  1. Is there a way (preferably via the front panel) to determine the present firmware?
  2. If I enable the firmware alert message and enter Hardware Setup, it informs me "Firmware Update Available 1070-4100-0100-0000. Is that the version already installed and running?
  3. I am aware that I need to upgrade to version 1100-7101-0100-0000 over the network first, after which I need to download, copy to USB, then install via USB.
  4. I also know the unit should not be powered off until the upgrade is finished. I have HDMI control (RIHD) "on" so I'll need to turn it off before proceeding. I use a projector and I don't want to leave it powered on, especially since it will take some time to finish.
  5. I watched Onkyo's YouTube video regarding the upgrade (URL not posted because I can't find a way to do that without embedding the actual video, but if you want to see it, append /watch?v=SNM-N-JiT-gIs to YouTube's URL). Is it accurate?
  6. I am pretty sure I'll have to run Audyssey all over again but that's not a big deal.
  7. Any other suggestions?

The reason for my concern is that the last time I upgraded firmware (for an older Onkyo AVR) it did nothing beneficial for me. In fact all it did was make the thing unjustifiably warm in standby mode.

Perhaps this upgrade won't do anything beneficial either, and in that case I'm inclined to just leave well enough alone.
6sj7gt is offline  
post #10628 of 10639 Old 10-04-2019, 05:39 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 195
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Hmmm... Your name sounds familiar ;-)



For the first question, the easiest way is to press the "home" button on the remote (or the small button below the tuning selector wheel on the front panel) and scroll to the icon on the far right (looks like a circle with arrows in it) and press enter. The current firmware version will be displayed.


For the second question, that should be the release they are recommending you upgrade to but you can confirm by checking your current version using the process above.


For the fifth question, yes, the video is accurate but I would add: do NOT plug in (or unplug) headphones. If the system is in the middle of an update and you unplug/plug-in headphones, it will stop the update immediately - NOT good!! Do NOT start the process if the tuner is selected. Choose DVD or any other setting. If you start the process with Tuner selected and for any reason (like selecting USB vs. Network using the selector wheel), it will exit the utility and instead change the radio station.


The documentation for the update should explain the changes.


HTH
Todd



Quote:
Originally Posted by 6sj7gt View Post
As far as I know my TX-NR818's firmware has never been upgraded. I have questions:

  1. Is there a way (preferably via the front panel) to determine the present firmware?
  2. If I enable the firmware alert message and enter Hardware Setup, it informs me "Firmware Update Available 1070-4100-0100-0000. Is that the version already installed and running?
  3. I am aware that I need to upgrade to version 1100-7101-0100-0000 over the network first, after which I need to download, copy to USB, then install via USB.
  4. I also know the unit should not be powered off until the upgrade is finished. I have HDMI control (RIHD) "on" so I'll need to turn it off before proceeding. I use a projector and I don't want to leave it powered on, especially since it will take some time to finish.
  5. I watched Onkyo's YouTube video regarding the upgrade (URL not posted because I can't find a way to do that without embedding the actual video, but if you want to see it, append /watch?v=SNM-N-JiT-gIs to YouTube's URL). Is it accurate?
  6. I am pretty sure I'll have to run Audyssey all over again but that's not a big deal.
  7. Any other suggestions?

The reason for my concern is that the last time I upgraded firmware (for an older Onkyo AVR) it did nothing beneficial for me. In fact all it did was make the thing unjustifiably warm in standby mode.

Perhaps this upgrade won't do anything beneficial either, and in that case I'm inclined to just leave well enough alone.
TJMotter is offline  
post #10629 of 10639 Old 10-04-2019, 07:52 PM
Member
 
6sj7gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJMotter View Post
Hmmm... Your name sounds familiar ;-)
Thanks Todd! Yes I just didn't want to bother you with such a mundane question. That's the procedure I used but wasn't clear whether the displayed version was what's already installed or what it was proposing to install (which wouldn't make any sense since the number seems old).

Still gathering up the nerve to do it... once I was 95% through Audyssey when the phone rang and had to start all over again. Trying to eliminate all the things that can go wrong.
6sj7gt is offline  
post #10630 of 10639 Old 10-04-2019, 08:03 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 195
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6sj7gt View Post
Thanks Todd! Yes I just didn't want to bother you with such a mundane question. That's the procedure I used but wasn't clear whether the displayed version was what's already installed or what it was proposing to install (which wouldn't make any sense since the number seems old).

Still gathering up the nerve to do it... once I was 95% through Audyssey when the phone rang and had to start all over again. Trying to eliminate all the things that can go wrong.

NP


I should add that Onkyo does seem to release some fixes in their firmware but the biggest things seem to be feature enhancements like better support for things like Spotify, IMHO, if you Receiver is working properly and you don't need these features there isn't usually a good reason to upgrade.


If you do decide to upgrade, I would recommend that you continue to perform Network based updates until you get to the release they list in their update doc. With really old firmware they may have to install multiple patches to get it to the point where they can install 1100-7101-0100-0000. Only after you get to this rev should you move to the USB based update for the latest version.


HTH
Todd
TJMotter is offline  
post #10631 of 10639 Old 10-08-2019, 03:43 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Since there is no way I have the skill to do that, does anyone know of a repair shop in the Seattle area that does?
Thanks!



Quote:
Originally Posted by TJMotter View Post
The on-screen display and the MAIN HDMI OUT are driven by the QDEO chip (the square chip marked as "MARVEL" near the HDMI1 port). The "SUB" output routes through a different chip. Whenever I see issues with firmware updates not working on the "VSP" or I see issues like the MAIN OUT not working it usually means that some of the critical solder balls on that chip have cracked. The process is the same as fixing the DSP chip where you "reflow" the chip by applying "no clean" flux around the base of the chip, insulate the area with something to protect the rest of the components and then apply heat. I use something called "Kapton" tape for insulation along with a layer of tin foil to keep the heat away from the plastics in the HDMI ports. The Kapton tape (a yellow high heat tape available from Mouser.com) holds the rest of the parts down so they don't detach and the tin foil keeps the high heat away from the plastic parts. I then heat the chip with a high flow of 435 degree (celsius) for 90 -120 seconds. It is important to use "no clean" flux for two reasons, 1) it cleans the pads and facilitates the solder to reattach and 2) it is not corrosive like regular flux so it won't hurt the board if you can't clean it all off. Once complete, I remove the tape and use a small paint brush dipped in isopropyl alcohol to clean area up.


HTH
Todd
proteus77 is offline  
post #10632 of 10639 Old 10-10-2019, 09:16 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 195
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by proteus77 View Post
Since there is no way I have the skill to do that, does anyone know of a repair shop in the Seattle area that does?
Thanks!
PM Sent
TJMotter is offline  
post #10633 of 10639 Old 10-10-2019, 11:21 PM
Advanced Member
 
horseflesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 683
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 108 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Second PM for Seattle repair sent!
horseflesh is offline  
post #10634 of 10639 Old 10-23-2019, 12:49 PM
Newbie
 
yossitt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Onkyo 818 can't turn on

Hello,
My Onkyo 818 suddenly stopped turning on. As soon as I plug it in, there are noises of trying every few seconds but it doesn't turn on. There is only a strange noise, as if entering a safty mode.
Do you have any suggestion?
yossitt is offline  
post #10635 of 10639 Old 10-23-2019, 07:21 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 195
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by yossitt View Post
Hello,
My Onkyo 818 suddenly stopped turning on. As soon as I plug it in, there are noises of trying every few seconds but it doesn't turn on. There is only a strange noise, as if entering a safty mode.
Do you have any suggestion?

The 818 suffers from a resistor that degrades causing failure of the main power relay. Here is a thread that may help.


http://repairalmostanything.com/thre...ed-replacement
TJMotter is offline  
post #10636 of 10639 Old 11-04-2019, 11:09 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Could someone please help me with the understanding of the 4-6 ohm setting in the configuration of speakers?


If I have speakers that can do 100 watts and 8 ohm, which are the M1 speakers in the B&W MT-60D set.... how do I have adjust the settings? I cannot select 8 ohm, but I understand the NR818 should be able to support more than that, but it only gives me 6 ohm as a max setting... Do I just choose that, and the 100 Watts setting?


Another thing, the subwoofer, which is the PV1D, is it enough to run a normal jack between the "subwoofer" in the "pre-out" panel on the back of the 818 and to the subwoofer, without any other cabling needed? The subwoofer is powered, and digital.


That's the way I set it up so far, using manuals etc... but is it correct?


On another note, I run the signal from the TV and PS through the 818 as well, using HDMI, and an HDMI from the ARC in the 818 to the ARC on the television... works like a charm... but... when using Netflix, or something else on the TV, that also runs on it's own wifi connection, I simply cannot get the sound to go back into the 818 via the ARC, eventhough I've tried everything on the TV or 818, is there some kind of trick to this? (HDMI ARC sound is set on the TV)
jmmoric is offline  
post #10637 of 10639 Old 11-04-2019, 11:17 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
zeus33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,171
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1855 Post(s)
Liked: 1924
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmmoric View Post
..... but it only gives me 6 ohm as a max setting... Do I just choose that, and the 100 Watts setting?


Another thing, the subwoofer, which is the PV1D, is it enough to run a normal jack between the "subwoofer" in the "pre-out" panel on the back of the 818 and to the subwoofer, without any other cabling needed? The subwoofer is powered, and digital.
That's the way I set it up so far, using manuals etc... but is it correct?

6 ohms for the speakers.

Yes, an RCA from the "sub out" to the sub is the only connection you need to the receiver.
zeus33 is offline  
post #10638 of 10639 Old 11-04-2019, 11:25 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
6 ohms for the speakers.

Yes, an RCA from the "sub out" to the sub is the only connection you need to the receiver.

Thanks, appreciate it.
jmmoric is offline  
post #10639 of 10639 Old 11-04-2019, 05:50 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
neutro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,012
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 243 Post(s)
Liked: 611
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmmoric View Post
On another note, I run the signal from the TV and PS through the 818 as well, using HDMI, and an HDMI from the ARC in the 818 to the ARC on the television... works like a charm... but... when using Netflix, or something else on the TV, that also runs on it's own wifi connection, I simply cannot get the sound to go back into the 818 via the ARC, eventhough I've tried everything on the TV or 818, is there some kind of trick to this? (HDMI ARC sound is set on the TV)
In order for ARC to work, you have to set it correctly on your TV and the 818. You say it is set correctly on the TV -- but it's sometimes quite tricky. I just discovered how to do it on my 2015 Panasonic It was not just a matter of turning HDMI Control on, and the actual ARC setting was buried in a smart TV app (not in the TV setup function).

On the 818, you have to use the main HDMI out, and then set HDMI Control (RIHD) to ON in Hardware Setup -> HDMI. You will then have the option to set ARC to Auto (it should be by default).

Good luck with that one!

neutro is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Audyssey , Onkyo , Onkyo Tx Nr818 , Receivers Amplifiers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off