Please help - Pioneer VSX-60 vs SC-61 OR Denon 3312ci? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 7 Old 08-21-2012, 08:02 AM - Thread Starter
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I am trying to decide between these 3 receivers for my new home theater in my new townhome. My main room is big, 28x15 or so with 12 foot celings.

My speakers are KEF iq70 mains with iq60c center channel, klipsch rw-12d subwoofer and in celing speakers for the surround.

I am looking for a recever that can adequately power my speakers in this large of a room. It will be used for approximately 60/40 music to movies/tv.

Features I want

-big powerful amp that will not struggle to power my speakers to the volumes i want
-good connectivity to pandora radio, satelite radio
-excellent Ipad/iphone controller app (want to be able to use as a fully functional remote, turning on/off, switching sources, controlling pandora, etc..)
-a receiver that will stand the test of time, i do not want to be buying a new one in 2 years

Pros for Vsx-60

-good price point
-excellent ipad/iphone app
-great connectivity features
-styling (minor)

Pros for SC-61

-massive power from class D amp
-same great apps
-excellent connectivity and video upscaling features
-styling (minor, but still)

Pros for 3312

-good price point at accessories4less
-good reputation
-good power, but lightweight compared to SC-61, not sure how it compares to the vsx and sc
-audyssey xt (that much better than mcacc?, i realize that it does eq the sub but not sure how much that matters)

Can anyone provide any insight?

I really want to make sure i am making the best purchase. I really like the idea of the pioneer app for the iphone, this feature alone will make me actually use my ssytem more often which is a huge plus.

Thanks guys smile.gif
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post #2 of 7 Old 08-21-2012, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Any feedback? Leaning Towards the sc-61..
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post #3 of 7 Old 08-22-2012, 10:57 PM
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I've got the same question. The shop I was at today packaged a VSX-60 together with some Tannoy speakers which I ended up going with but I do hesitate a bit due to the massive amount of Denon fans I see posting on the forums here. In fact I can't even find an "Official Pioneer VSX-60" thread. I'm wondering if the differences are neglible or if it's really worth returning the VSX-60 for the Denon 3312 or another Denon (2113?)
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post #4 of 7 Old 08-23-2012, 03:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Wiegard View Post

I do hesitate a bit due to the massive amount of Denon fans I see posting on the forums here

as one who has owned Pioneer gear for many years & also seriously considered Denon pieces for several years, I sympathize. It's hard to resist "group mentality". I came to my senses when I continued to realize that to make the swap in AVR or prepro + player + amp, I'd end up spending many thousands in pursuit of what could have been a very minor improvement at best. That said, Pioneer should be & I believe is going to looking at subwoofer EQ. That would level the playing field and quiet the "herd" wink.gif

Trust your own judgment, do your own due diligence, go & listen to the gear and check out how it functions at your dealers, download manuals & get a feel of how they work, how they differ & what ea offers. THEN make a decision.

The forums & numerous posters I have a great deal of respect for, can be a big help. Denon seems to be the "brand of choice" now, almost all of which is due to Audyssey and perceptions of Audyssey. Plus discounted pricing on the soon-to-be-replaced 4311 have helped a lot.

Until you can make some kind of comparison of an Audyssey corrected system vs a Pioneer MCACC system, you won't know. Some claim "night & day" results, some don't. Some have said they get tighter integration. Well, what does that mean, exactly wink.gif I didn't get these huge improvements when I put an Audyssey based sub EQ'r into my Pioneer system. While it looked to be slightly better than my Velodyne EQ'r it was definitely not "night & day", very subtle at best. As for "tighter integration", I listen to my soundfield & I don't know how it can be that much better. I already get tight integration & a seamless surround field. MOST of that is due to my speakers!! The most important things to your sound are speakers & room. Investing in better speakers will reap far more benefit than swapping electronics. True decades ago, still true today.

That said, if you decide on a non-Audyssey receiver, like Pioneer, Yamaha, & others, you could benefit from adding an external sub EQ, like the Velodyne SMS-1 or one of their subs with EQ included, or a used SVS AS-EQ1, or Antimode. The only major advantage of Denon over Pioneer is Audyssey's sub EQ but the best version of that is MultiEQ32XT. The 3312 has the older MultiEQXT that also EQ's sub but does not have the resolving power of M32XT.

The class D amps in the SC models are very robust & do not run out of gas all channels driven.

Pioneer & Denon are both great choices. I came close to swapping myself. But then I'd lose several features that I've come to greatly appreciate in my Pioneer setup. "Group think" can't make those personal choices for you. What I may value, others won't, so in their minds what they value trumps yours. Trust me on that smile.gif

In truth, you can't go wrong with either one. My only advice is decide for yourself, don't let "feeling left out" by all the Denon supporters drive your decision smile.gif Their enthusiasm is a factor but you will find a lot of Pioneer support & enthusiasm here, too. New models have just come out & some are just getting started with them.

A parting tidbit - some actually prefer Pioneer MCACC over Audyssey eek.gif Imagine that! You can manually tweak MCACC to your heart's content, not so with Audyssey unless you shell out $750 for their Pro kit.

Steve
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post #5 of 7 Old 08-23-2012, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
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wow, great response!

last night i was able to download the apps from yamaha, denon and pioneer on my iphone and check out the "demo mode"

the app is a huge deal for me because i know that i will use the device much more if the app works well and is fun and easy to use. switching over to music during commericals during football games when we have people over, swithcing to music while cooking in the kitchen etc....and also switching sources, like from pandora to internet radio.

i thought the yamaha app was good, the denon OK at best and the pioneer was amazing. this makes me lean towards the pioneer even more.

my main concern is do i NEED the sc-61 over the vsx-60 to drive my speakers in my large room. i just dont have a good enough feel for this. right now i am considering going with the sc-61 because i feel like the stronger power gives me room to grow in my ssytem and i will never have to worry about distortion since the recevier will be more than strong enough to power the speakers.

do you have any experience with the iphone / ipad app for pioneer or any of the other brands? any feedback?

i also am not sure how much the sub eq matters, and the ability to purhcase and independent one is nice, but again, more money...

I am still undecided, so anyone with more feedback, please feel free to add your opinions / experiences. Still considering the 3312 and 2312 for that matter.
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post #6 of 7 Old 08-23-2012, 02:49 PM
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I've got an SC-25 (couple years old now) in my media room driving a 7.2 B&W setup which I've been happy with, although I can honestly say I don't have much to compare it to. It sounds great to me though. As I mentioned above, I've got the VSX-60 (picked it up yesterday) for my living room which will be driving a 5.1 setup of Tannoy satellite speakers, so the thinking is that that should be more than enough to drive those as well as my 2 outdoor speakers in my second zone on the patio. I didn't look at the pricing of the SC, but the sales guy mentioned that the VSX-60 gets me into the "Elite" series and provides enough power to drive the speakers I went with and also having the ability to run a second zone. It'll be a tough comparison between the VSX-60 (assuming I break open the box this evening after mounting the speakers) and my SC-25 since they are vastly different rooms. Media room is all carpet, living room is wood floors with 2 story ceilings, so the sound is going to be much different. At the end of the day, what I figure is that if I was able to live with my Bose Lifestyle 35 system for the past 10 years (literally), then the VSX-60 with Tannoy speakers should hopefully be a NOTICEABLE improvement over that smile.gif Obviously the features are night and day. Plus, the center channel on the Bose system sucked so bad that I have been having to use the speakers on my Samsung TV to get better sound.

I'm glad to hear the results of you looking at the App part of it. That's something I think I'd get a lot of use out of as well if it's "cool" smile.gif (i.e. easy to use, etc...). I've also got the 1st generation Apple TV on this TV so I'm not even sure how necessary that will even be with the AirPlay feature. Maybe I won't even need the Apple TV?

Anyway, I should be able to listen to everything fired up this evening once I get it set up. I'd love to hook it up, then take it down and hook up a Denon immediately afterwards in the same room and see which sounds better, but that would be a pain in the ass, but I'm still somewhat tempted to make a run to BB and pick up the Denon for that very reason, then return the one I don't like as much.
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post #7 of 7 Old 11-30-2012, 06:33 PM
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rich, you are THE guy i was looking for. i come from HK AVR 254, but upradgin for a few features. i have vsx-60 setup with 2xRC30, 2C-LCR, 2xRC10 and Mirage 8" prestige sub. i was also trying to decide whether to keep VSX-60 or buy SC-55.. Can you please share your experiences so far how does VSX-60 compare with your SC ..
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