The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 246 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7351 of 14140 Old 03-15-2014, 12:55 PM
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I have tried to search the thread for this but could not find the answer.  Is there a sound quality difference between playing itunes over ipod through usb connection and playing itunes via computer or ipod via airplay?  In other words is there a difference between the usb connection and airplay?

 

Thanks

 

JB

Anyone?

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post #7352 of 14140 Old 03-15-2014, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jb481

I have tried to search the thread for this but could not find the answer. Is there a sound quality difference between playing itunes over ipod through usb connection and playing itunes via computer or ipod via airplay? In other words is there a difference between the usb connection and airplay?

Thanks
Anyone?
Not really, as long as you a good WiFi signal level. Airplay works really well with the Denon. Obviously the audio quality of the filles being played makes a major difference.

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post #7353 of 14140 Old 03-15-2014, 06:41 PM
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It all depends on the file you use (MP3, ALAC, FLAC, etc...), your network/wifi signal strength, compatibility of your wifi router with Airplay, and things that may cause interference with your Airplay signal.

With USB, although not convenient, you can ensure you will have the best, uninterrupted signal into your receiver. With Airplay, you can get the same experience, but there are a lot more variables that will affect the quality of the stream.
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post #7354 of 14140 Old 03-15-2014, 07:58 PM
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I have a question surrounding LFE and PCM streams. I searched, but couldn't find anything that simply explained this for my set up.

My scenario is as follows.

I use my AVR-4520cI as my main hub for all audio and video, as many others do

When I want to listen to Streamed music, I use Sonos connect.

The content is being streamed from Slacker or Google Play Music, via Android Macronos, without utilizing SonosNet. I also have the Sonos sound as fixed.

The Sonos Connect is connected (no pun intended), via toslink, into the optical port in the back of the AVR.

The stream I get is 44 khz, according to the display after I hit status. It seems to be a 2 channel PCM stream form Sonos to the AVR. Only the front mains show up in the AVR screen, with PCM, and of course LFE.


I get great Left and Right main speaker sound, but I don't get any sub fire. I am on the border if I really need it due to the balanced sound I currently get, but I would like to see what is sounds like with a sub firing.


To provide some insight on how I configured everything:

I went into the manual settings, under 2 channel playback, and changed it from automatic to manual.

I then set LFE+ Main, and have my front speakers as Large.

I set the crossover for my Sub at 80 Hz, and left all other settings pre populated form the Auto Audyssey XT32 Set-up.

I still don't get any sub fire, although LFE is doing a great job with my mains.



Can someone please explain this better or guide me on how to set this up to get my sub to fire?


Finally, I compared this to my Xbox streaming Slacker, over HDMI, which produces a DD sound. It seems like somewhere the stream gets converted to 2 channel sound, and thus produces no sub fire. The Xbox 360 Slacker stream is 48 kHz, and all speakers are showing up in the AVR's screen. The sound seems the same, and I can't figure out what is going on, especially with the manual settings I have put in.

I don't claim to know what I am doing, so your help is greatly appreciated.
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post #7355 of 14140 Old 03-15-2014, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by geoffgoddard View Post

I'll leave it to the experts here, but I thought UPS backups were a no-no with AVR's?

If it's a decent UPS, like the Eaton EX On-Line series, you should have no problems powering the 4520 or any other receiver.
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post #7356 of 14140 Old 03-15-2014, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by howard68 View Post

hi all
I have had a trouble with my 4520ci over the last few months
It has intermittent issues and has it been back to Denon twice
my 4520ci did not show faults for them when tested
however it now has developed new faults like going into Head Phone mode spontaneously!
I have this and other problems with sound levels documented on video and sent to Denon!!!!
I am now getting the run around from Denon,,so it looks as if you get two attempts to replicate the faults in their test centers and your 3 year warranty is off!!!!!!
I love my 4520ci when it is working, at the moment i would not change it for any other model on the market.
I really don't know what to do now, it does not work in 7.1 mode without the left surround speaker being so quiet it is like having no speaker at all.
has anybody had this issue? Denon is treating me as though I am making this stuff up. Why would i put my self through this for fun !!!!!
All I want is a reliable amp

regards Howard very upset and pissed off now


Use social media. Post to Google+, Facebook, Twitter, etc. Companies these days pay particular attention to social media. Don't just post it...ask Denon for a replacement unit. Be courteous but persistent. If that doesn't work, go to social media.

Thanks,
Hansang
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post #7357 of 14140 Old 03-15-2014, 08:49 PM
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I am going to give Denon one more week
and will have to try your social media idea
thanks
I don't know what happened to Denon
this is My 5th amp
may be my last
you are good as long as is doesn't go wrong
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post #7358 of 14140 Old 03-15-2014, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupismaximus View Post

I have a question surrounding LFE and PCM streams. I searched, but couldn't find anything that simply explained this for my set up.

My scenario is as follows.

I use my AVR-4520cI as my main hub for all audio and video, as many others do

When I want to listen to Streamed music, I use Sonos connect.

The content is being streamed from Slacker or Google Play Music, via Android Macronos, without utilizing SonosNet. I also have the Sonos sound as fixed.

The Sonos Connect is connected (no pun intended), via toslink, into the optical port in the back of the AVR.

The stream I get is 44 khz, according to the display after I hit status. It seems to be a 2 channel PCM stream form Sonos to the AVR. Only the front mains show up in the AVR screen, with PCM, and of course LFE.


I get great Left and Right main speaker sound, but I don't get any sub fire. I am on the border if I really need it due to the balanced sound I currently get, but I would like to see what is sounds like with a sub firing.


To provide some insight on how I configured everything:

I went into the manual settings, under 2 channel playback, and changed it from automatic to manual.

I then set LFE+ Main, and have my front speakers as Large.

I set the crossover for my Sub at 80 Hz, and left all other settings pre populated form the Auto Audyssey XT32 Set-up.

I still don't get any sub fire, although LFE is doing a great job with my mains.



Can someone please explain this better or guide me on how to set this up to get my sub to fire?


Finally, I compared this to my Xbox streaming Slacker, over HDMI, which produces a DD sound. It seems like somewhere the stream gets converted to 2 channel sound, and thus produces no sub fire. The Xbox 360 Slacker stream is 48 kHz, and all speakers are showing up in the AVR's screen. The sound seems the same, and I can't figure out what is going on, especially with the manual settings I have put in.

I don't claim to know what I am doing, so your help is greatly appreciated.

 

I have a similar setup, with Sonos sending a 2.0 digital audio stream to the 4520 via Toslink.  Please try the following experiment:  change your main speakers to "Small", and set the crossover to 80Hz.  Now see if there is bass output on the sub.

 

While the bass setting of LFE+Main should be sending low frequencies to the sub channel when the speakers are set to large, I am not sure why it is not doing so in your case.  Regardless, if you have a subwoofer in your system, the correct setting for the mains is "Small".

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post #7359 of 14140 Old 03-16-2014, 04:26 AM
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It makes big difference when you are dealing with High power Receivers amps and processors,speakers, a lot homes today have static electricity, so dedicated 20 amp line does gives it clean power,so that make your hometheater sound better.

You don't seem to understand electricity.
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post #7360 of 14140 Old 03-16-2014, 05:27 AM
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It makes big difference when you are dealing with High power Receivers amps and processors,speakers, a lot homes today have static electricity, so dedicated 20 amp line does gives it clean power,so that make your hometheater sound better.

yes yes.... and don't forget the Monster speaker wire.....
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post #7361 of 14140 Old 03-16-2014, 05:35 AM
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and cable elevators...
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You don't seem to understand electricity.
That's just your opinion I know what works I've seen results from it,and guess what one time in my life I use to be like you,till I started hanging out with the big boys.
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yes yes.... and don't forget the Monster speaker wire.....
I use Monster and Audioquest the real deal is furatech.
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Dedicated receptacles is a good idea but depending on your home, might not do anything for you. So there is no definate must to this and in many cases just using an existing outlet is just as good as a dedicated one.

Depends on how much system you have. Personally i think if you are only running an AVR and no amps, an existing outlet is fine. I think if you know how your home is wired it goes a long way in deciding. For example, I would not want to use an existing outlet that might be strung along with a bathroom that might have someone using a blow dryer. This is highly unlikely, especially in newer homes but you never know. My house has two bathrooms' outlets on the same circuit. If two people use them at the same time and both use hair appliances, sometimes it kicks a breaker. I also would not want to use an existing outlet that might be strung along with others using noisy devices or higher power appliances like a space heater.


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post #7366 of 14140 Old 03-16-2014, 06:12 AM
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Dedicated receptacles is a good idea but depending on your home, might not do anything for you. So there is no definate must to this and in many cases just using an existing outlet is just as good as a dedicated one.
Depends on how much system you have. Personally i think if you are only running an AVR and no amps, an existing outlet is fine. I think if you know how your home is wired it goes a long way in deciding. For example, I would not want to use an existing outlet that might be strung along with a bathroom that might have someone using a blow dryer. This is highly unlikely, especially in newer homes but you never know. My house has two bathrooms' outlets on the same circuit. If two people use them at the same time and both use hair appliances, sometimes it kicks a breaker. I also would not want to use an existing outlet that might be strung along with others using noisy devices or higher power appliances like a space heater.
Now you just answer my question I have all that in my bedroom,bathroom built right with it ooh Master bedroom.
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post #7367 of 14140 Old 03-16-2014, 08:58 AM
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Thanks for your answers.  I understand that their may be some limitations with airplay regarding wifi, but what I was trying to decipher is if there was a difference in the bit rate that one can handle compared to the other.  In my instance the quality of the source is the same for both.  Does one have a lesser capacity than the other.

 

Thanks

JB

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post #7368 of 14140 Old 03-16-2014, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jb481 View Post

Thanks for your answers.  I understand that their may be some limitations with airplay regarding wifi, but what I was trying to decipher is if there was a difference in the bit rate that one can handle compared to the other.  In my instance the quality of the source is the same for both.  Does one have a lesser capacity than the other.

Thanks
JB

Again, If the source is the same, and your wifi situation is ideal, then there should be no difference in Quality/ Bitrate. A 802.11 b network has enough bandwidth to support the streaming of a lossless file, if it is set up properly. More than likely you have an 802.11G/N/N AC network, which is equal or more than the bandwidth of the USB cable.

If you want utmost quality, then use the cable. If you are ok with some degradation due to the interference with Wifi, then use airplay.

Without diving down and getting really technical surrounding how each technology works, I would suggest trying them both and you let us know if you notice a difference.

You are asking this from a technical comparison, and at the end of the day, the real answer is what do you hear, and if you like it, and not what technically produces a better sound.

Most people realize that streaming, from a mobile device, over wifi, works 95% of the time. The other 5% will have dropouts, hangs, or other technical issues. They are ok with this especially due to the ease of use factor of streaming wirelessly.
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post #7369 of 14140 Old 03-16-2014, 01:48 PM
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Why would the"tone" be grayed out, anybody know?
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post #7370 of 14140 Old 03-16-2014, 02:09 PM
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Why would the"tone" be grayed out, anybody know?

The Tone controls and Dynamic EQ are mutually exclusive, so if you want to use the Tone controls, you'll have to turn off Dynamic EQ. See pages 123 and 125 of the 4520's owner's manual.

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post #7371 of 14140 Old 03-17-2014, 08:03 AM
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Anyone know how long until we have some info on the upcoming replacement? Trying to decide if it's worth the wait or just grab the 4520 at a great deal.

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post #7372 of 14140 Old 03-17-2014, 08:10 AM
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Anyone know how long until we have some info on the upcoming replacement? Trying to decide if it's worth the wait or just grab the 4520 at a great deal.

 

I’d wait until after CEDIA in September. The theme of CEDIA this year is "hyper-change" and all the indications are that there will be some exceptionally interesting announcements wrt to new processors and AVRs, not least of which will be the inclusion of capabilities for object-based Audio... 

 

Almost certainly new units released after CEDIA will also include HDMI 2.0 as well.

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post #7373 of 14140 Old 03-17-2014, 11:25 AM
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"object-based Audio..." - What does that mean???

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post #7374 of 14140 Old 03-17-2014, 11:34 AM
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"object-based Audio..." - What does that mean???

 

The biggest change in recorded AV sound for about a decade - the coming of Dolby Atmos etc to domestic equipment... As it is such a game changer, it may be worth delaying any non-mandatory purchase until after CEDIA so that you can see what is about to be launched.

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post #7375 of 14140 Old 03-17-2014, 11:39 AM
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Simply means you have to buy a bunch more stuff


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post #7376 of 14140 Old 03-17-2014, 12:08 PM
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Well if the only thing coming is HDMI 2.0 and even more channels of audio, I think I will just wait until they start closing out the 4520 and pick one up cheap! I seriously doubt I will ever go more than 7.2 and I won't purchase a new TV for a VERY long time!

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Well if the only thing coming is HDMI 2.0 and even more channels of audio, I think I will just wait until they start closing out the 4520 and pick one up cheap! I seriously doubt I will ever go more than 7.2 and I won't purchase a new TV for a VERY long time!

 

Not more channels. Objects. It will work with however many channels you already have. 7.2 is fine, although you might want to repurpose two of them to become Height channels.  There will definitely be some cheap units on the market after CEDIA as people upgrade to the 'hyper-change' models.  But buying right now, unless you have to (eg broken current unit) is pretty much buying obsolescence IMO.

 

This link will help explain it. It is for commercial cinema as no information on the home version is going to be released until CEDIA, but imagine this, but in your own home. Scalable to the number of speakers you already have, so if it's 5.1 you can start with that and upgrade over time. A bit like having 3D - you don't have to use it unless you want to but it's there if you do. 

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post #7378 of 14140 Old 03-17-2014, 01:21 PM
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Thanks for the link! I also read an article on audioholics that helped explain "objects." I am in no hurry to upgrade anything in my current system, just like to think about stuff. I'm sure you're well aware how dangerous "upgraditis" can be!

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Originally Posted by mnc View Post

Thanks for the link! I also read an article on audioholics that helped explain "objects." I am in no hurry to upgrade anything in my current system, just like to think about stuff. I'm sure you're well aware how dangerous "upgraditis" can be!

 

Absolutely. I certainly wouldn't want a new unit that wouldn’t let me upgrade to an object-based sound system though. Not this close it becoming reality.  Not that I need a new unit anyway at this time, but I will certainly be interested in seeing what this Fall brings.

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post #7380 of 14140 Old 03-17-2014, 06:47 PM
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Question--

I have my 11.2 system wired up and I'm looking at this receiver to run it. I plan to use the preouts with my Rotel amps to drive the 7 main channels. I would like to use the on board amp in this receiver to power my front wide and height channels. Are the amps assignable to those channels? Will this work? Thanks for any input.
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