The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 425 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 3940Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #12721 of 14132 Old 08-26-2015, 10:08 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
gadgtfreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Bama
Posts: 12,139
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 634 Post(s)
Liked: 5935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Having seen the non ventilated " entertainment centers " some people jam A / V gear in, I've always suspected most failures are from overheating. And the fan should last a long time. It doesn't hurt to be on the safe side IMO.

Agreed. Going to order today.

XBR65A9G / XBR65A8F
Oppo UDP-203 / Sony X800M2
AVRX6500H / RP-8000F / RP-504C / RP-502S / FV15HP
gadgtfreek is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12722 of 14132 Old 08-26-2015, 03:46 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
gadgtfreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Bama
Posts: 12,139
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 634 Post(s)
Liked: 5935
Got the new 4520CI in today



Had this firmware:

9/9/2013 (3325-3843-4485)

So I had to download this one:

2/19/2014 (3525-8853-5475)

Guess this was built between 9/9/13 and 2/18/14
Alan P and Squirrel! like this.

XBR65A9G / XBR65A8F
Oppo UDP-203 / Sony X800M2
AVRX6500H / RP-8000F / RP-504C / RP-502S / FV15HP
gadgtfreek is online now  
post #12723 of 14132 Old 08-26-2015, 06:35 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bluer101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: South Florida
Posts: 2,384
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 624 Post(s)
Liked: 704
Nice unit.


Like Craig the fans cannot hurt only help.

I built my fan controller just over 9 years ago. It's been retrofitted into 3 cabinets with 2 sets of fans so far. Back when I built mine cooling options were small and expensive. So computer fans, computer fan controller with temp sensors, and a external hard drive case to power it was cheaper.

If I need to redo it I would choose the AC infinity stuff. I bought 2 of the 120mm plates to dress off my new entertainment cabinet but liked the silent x fans better.

My Denon triggers my Belkin Surge protector switched outlets, which turns on my fans and inuke amp.
bluer101 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12724 of 14132 Old 08-26-2015, 06:41 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
gadgtfreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Bama
Posts: 12,139
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 634 Post(s)
Liked: 5935
I figure when those two fans and temp sensor come in, Ill figure out where the warmest area is and set em there.

I never noticed the bottom fans run on my old 4520ci, must have to get hot for them to work.

XBR65A9G / XBR65A8F
Oppo UDP-203 / Sony X800M2
AVRX6500H / RP-8000F / RP-504C / RP-502S / FV15HP
gadgtfreek is online now  
post #12725 of 14132 Old 08-26-2015, 07:20 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RobLee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Florida Suncoast
Posts: 2,466
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 292 Post(s)
Liked: 299
I added a 120mm exhaust fan to the upper back corner of my cabinet a couple years ago, powered off the 12V trigger out from my AVR. The 3312 has two 12V outs... one triggers the power amp and the other the cooling fan. I use an Enermax "TB Silence" (part no UCTB12) as it was the quietest fan I could find based on its db rating, low rpm and adequate airflow. The fan's power draw was rated at 150ma, which should be low enough for the 12V trigger out, but I added a small resistor in series as well, which reduces the power draw somewhat as well as slow the fan even more. When there is nothing playing the sound of the fan is barely audible a few feet away from the cabinet. I bought a couple spare fans for future use, and also picked up a 12V splitter from Emotiva... essentially a DC hub, with one 12V trigger input and four trigger outputs, in case I may want to add more fans at some later date. As you said, fans can only help.

Denon AVR-x3400H, Polk LsiM703's, 704c, RtiA1 surrounds, some Klipsch subs. Bedroom: Lsi9's, AVR-S930H
I once cried because I had no Atmos, until I met a man who had no stereo
RobLee is offline  
post #12726 of 14132 Old 08-27-2015, 12:27 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
gadgtfreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Bama
Posts: 12,139
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 634 Post(s)
Liked: 5935
Question. I noticed after I ran XT32, my display speakers were still activated and cranked up pretty good from when I was changing things out. I am assuming when Audyssey runs and sends the test tones out that is strictly from the speaker terminals on the bacl, nothing was getting passed via HDMI to the display? Affecting the cal?

XBR65A9G / XBR65A8F
Oppo UDP-203 / Sony X800M2
AVRX6500H / RP-8000F / RP-504C / RP-502S / FV15HP
gadgtfreek is online now  
post #12727 of 14132 Old 08-27-2015, 12:32 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bluer101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: South Florida
Posts: 2,384
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 624 Post(s)
Liked: 704
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Question. I noticed after I ran XT32, my display speakers were still activated and cranked up pretty good from when I was changing things out. I am assuming when Audyssey runs and sends the test tones out that is strictly from the speaker terminals on the bacl, nothing was getting passed via HDMI to the display? Affecting the cal?
I'm almost positive it's only terminals and pre outs.
gadgtfreek likes this.
bluer101 is online now  
post #12728 of 14132 Old 08-27-2015, 12:45 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
gadgtfreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Bama
Posts: 12,139
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 634 Post(s)
Liked: 5935
It doesn't make any sense that it would output thru the HDMI Monitor 1 output to the display, but it made me think for a second LOL.

XBR65A9G / XBR65A8F
Oppo UDP-203 / Sony X800M2
AVRX6500H / RP-8000F / RP-504C / RP-502S / FV15HP
gadgtfreek is online now  
post #12729 of 14132 Old 08-27-2015, 01:28 PM
UHD Addict
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 35,441
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8976 Post(s)
Liked: 5755
WoW!! I'm surprised that A4L still have 4520's in stock. Especially new ones. I got my refurb 4520 from them last Summer and have been very pleased with it. Hopefully I never need to use the five year warranty I purchased with it.

53TB unRAID1a--53TB unRAID2--73TB unRAID3
TCL 6 Series--Sony UBP-X800--Philips BDP7502--Onkyo HT-S7800
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme
aaronwt is online now  
post #12730 of 14132 Old 08-27-2015, 01:31 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
gadgtfreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Bama
Posts: 12,139
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 634 Post(s)
Liked: 5935
Yep, I was surprised to see it and jumped on it.

XBR65A9G / XBR65A8F
Oppo UDP-203 / Sony X800M2
AVRX6500H / RP-8000F / RP-504C / RP-502S / FV15HP
gadgtfreek is online now  
post #12731 of 14132 Old 08-27-2015, 03:11 PM
Member
 
smellyfungus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Got the new 4520CI in today

Had this firmware:

9/9/2013 (3325-3843-4485)

So I had to download this one:

2/19/2014 (3525-8853-5475)

Guess this was built between 9/9/13 and 2/18/14
My fans are coming in today (ordered the ones on Amazon since it was more affordable than the ebay ones and good for this experiment) and my receivers in tomorrow.

Looks like we're on similar time frames.
smellyfungus is offline  
post #12732 of 14132 Old 08-27-2015, 03:23 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 20,495
Mentioned: 374 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11034 Post(s)
Liked: 6577
Quote:
Originally Posted by smellyfungus View Post
My fans are coming in today (ordered the ones on Amazon since it was more affordable than the ebay ones and good for this experiment) and my receivers in tomorrow.

Looks like we're on similar time frames.
What, pray tell me, were you thinking when you chose that user name?

gsr, Alan P and Craig Peer like this.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #12733 of 14132 Old 08-27-2015, 08:16 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
gadgtfreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Bama
Posts: 12,139
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 634 Post(s)
Liked: 5935
Fungus us only good if it is smelly!

XBR65A9G / XBR65A8F
Oppo UDP-203 / Sony X800M2
AVRX6500H / RP-8000F / RP-504C / RP-502S / FV15HP
gadgtfreek is online now  
post #12734 of 14132 Old 08-27-2015, 09:00 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
laserjock II's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Texas Coast
Posts: 2,436
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1182 Post(s)
Liked: 663
There's Fungus among us...
laserjock II is offline  
post #12735 of 14132 Old 08-27-2015, 09:15 PM
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 16,231
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4588 Post(s)
Liked: 4791
An advantage of the internet is to be present without having to smell the smellyfungus.
lovinthehd is offline  
post #12736 of 14132 Old 08-28-2015, 10:22 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
gadgtfreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Bama
Posts: 12,139
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 634 Post(s)
Liked: 5935
Just wanted to report back, I am seeing this same thing with the 4520ci as I did with my Marantz preamp, with regards to speaker levels. Subs are always about 5db low compared to other speakers.

I use the Spears and Munsil 2nd gen blu-ray audio tones for each channel to test using a Cross Spectrum SPL meter. At 0.0 MV the speakers are 76db, and the subs are 71db. I set the gains on the subs so that when XT32 completes they are -10.5 and -9.5, I then boost them leaving their new levels at -5.5 and -4.5.

Front distances are both 10.3 feet
Center distance is 9.6 feet
Subs are 10.2 feet

XBR65A9G / XBR65A8F
Oppo UDP-203 / Sony X800M2
AVRX6500H / RP-8000F / RP-504C / RP-502S / FV15HP
gadgtfreek is online now  
post #12737 of 14132 Old 08-28-2015, 10:26 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Craig Peer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 15,797
Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6620 Post(s)
Liked: 7698
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Just wanted to report back, I am seeing this same thing with the 4520ci as I did with my Marantz preamp, with regards to speaker levels. Subs are always about 5db low compared to other speakers.

I use the Spears and Munsil 2nd gen blu-ray audio tones for each channel to test using a Cross Spectrum SPL meter. At 0.0 MV the speakers are 76db, and the subs are 71db. I set the gains on the subs so that when XT32 completes they are -10.5 and -9.5, I then boost them leaving their new levels at -5.5 and -4.5.

Front distances are both 10.3 feet
Center distance is 9.6 feet
Subs are 10.2 feet

I like more bass too. As they say, " there is reference, and there is preference ". I'll start with reference, and tweek to my personal preference !
Craig Peer is online now  
post #12738 of 14132 Old 08-28-2015, 10:28 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Craig Peer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 15,797
Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6620 Post(s)
Liked: 7698
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Fungus us only good if it is smelly!
Porcini's and truffles rock !
Craig Peer is online now  
post #12739 of 14132 Old 08-28-2015, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 29,334
Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4674 Post(s)
Liked: 4858
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Just wanted to report back, I am seeing this same thing with the 4520ci as I did with my Marantz preamp, with regards to speaker levels. Subs are always about 5db low compared to other speakers.

I use the Spears and Munsil 2nd gen blu-ray audio tones for each channel to test using a Cross Spectrum SPL meter. At 0.0 MV the speakers are 76db, and the subs are 71db. I set the gains on the subs so that when XT32 completes they are -10.5 and -9.5, I then boost them leaving their new levels at -5.5 and -4.5.

Front distances are both 10.3 feet
Center distance is 9.6 feet
Subs are 10.2 feet
Are you sure that SPL meter is accurate at low freqs and the 5dB "low" reading isn't simply an artifact?

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is online now  
post #12740 of 14132 Old 08-28-2015, 12:55 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
gadgtfreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Bama
Posts: 12,139
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 634 Post(s)
Liked: 5935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
I like more bass too. As they say, " there is reference, and there is preference ". I'll start with reference, and tweek to my personal preference !

Here is the thing though, XT32's setting of the sub isn't reference. With the -40dbfs tone it should be 75-76 like the other speakers, but it is 71!

XBR65A9G / XBR65A8F
Oppo UDP-203 / Sony X800M2
AVRX6500H / RP-8000F / RP-504C / RP-502S / FV15HP
gadgtfreek is online now  
post #12741 of 14132 Old 08-28-2015, 12:56 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
gadgtfreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Bama
Posts: 12,139
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 634 Post(s)
Liked: 5935
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Are you sure that SPL meter is accurate at low freqs and the 5dB "low" reading isn't simply an artifact?
Yes. I have confirmed same with REW and umik.

I am using the CM140, certified by Cross Spectrum (goes down to 32hz and the S&M tone is 30-80hz).

XBR65A9G / XBR65A8F
Oppo UDP-203 / Sony X800M2
AVRX6500H / RP-8000F / RP-504C / RP-502S / FV15HP
gadgtfreek is online now  
post #12742 of 14132 Old 08-28-2015, 01:23 PM
Member
 
smellyfungus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
What, pray tell me, were you thinking when you chose that user name?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Fungus us only good if it is smelly!
Quote:
Originally Posted by laserjock II View Post
There's Fungus among us...
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
An advantage of the internet is to be present without having to smell the smellyfungus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Porcini's and truffles rock !
time for me to go back in hiding lol.

in sad news my replacement wasn't delivered today. normally the fedex guy gives it to the leasing office when I'm not there but I guess he didn't feel like heading over there after he lugged the receiver up to the 5th floor just to have to go back down. (there's an elevator though so he shouldn't complain too much)

hopefully will be home tomorrow when he tries again. I really wanna to see how much of a difference the fans will make plus i miss the sound quality of XT32.
smellyfungus is offline  
post #12743 of 14132 Old 08-28-2015, 01:33 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 20,495
Mentioned: 374 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11034 Post(s)
Liked: 6577
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Here is the thing though, XT32's setting of the sub isn't reference. With the -40dbfs tone it should be 75-76 like the other speakers, but it is 71!
TBH, I don't understand the discussion. It is prudent to verify the levels Audyssey sets. If you found the sub a bit low, simply adjust the trim to your satisfaction. In my years of experience with Audyssey, following exactly the same procedure you did (measuring with S&M test tones and a calibrated mic), it was not uncommon to find the sub several dB low.
gadgtfreek likes this.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #12744 of 14132 Old 08-28-2015, 01:53 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
gadgtfreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Bama
Posts: 12,139
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 634 Post(s)
Liked: 5935
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
TBH, I don't understand the discussion. It is prudent to verify the levels Audyssey sets. If you found the sub a bit low, simply adjust the trim to your satisfaction. In my years of experience with Audyssey, following exactly the same procedure you did (measuring with S&M test tones and a calibrated mic), it was not uncommon to find the sub several dB low.

I think Audyssey is seen by many as "once it is finished 0.0 master volume is reference level for all speakers". Truth is, it's not always perfect with levels. I have found distance measurements to be quite accurate, it's result EQ wise is very good per REW, and it sets most of my speakers at the right level, but not the sub(s). It is not a coincedence there are a LOT of posts talking about subs being too low after audyssey, but many are brushed aside as folks preferring to run them "hot" or reference vs preference.

IMO, reference is 75db at master volume from your speakers with the -30db tone, and 75db from the sub(s) with the -40db tone. If the after Audyssey result does not yield those output numbers at reference volume, then it isn't reference at 0.0 MV

XT32 is a great tool, but you still need to double check it's results, as you said, if you have the tools to do it
lovinthehd likes this.

XBR65A9G / XBR65A8F
Oppo UDP-203 / Sony X800M2
AVRX6500H / RP-8000F / RP-504C / RP-502S / FV15HP
gadgtfreek is online now  
post #12745 of 14132 Old 08-28-2015, 01:56 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 20,495
Mentioned: 374 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11034 Post(s)
Liked: 6577
I agree, so we can move on now.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #12746 of 14132 Old 08-29-2015, 02:15 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
gadgtfreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Bama
Posts: 12,139
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 634 Post(s)
Liked: 5935
Fans installed. I checked air flow at the 7 setting and 9 setting, stuck with 9. I can't hear either so I figured I'd move a little more air.


XBR65A9G / XBR65A8F
Oppo UDP-203 / Sony X800M2
AVRX6500H / RP-8000F / RP-504C / RP-502S / FV15HP
gadgtfreek is online now  
post #12747 of 14132 Old 08-29-2015, 02:20 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
laserjock II's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Texas Coast
Posts: 2,436
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1182 Post(s)
Liked: 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Fans installed. I checked air flow at the 7 setting and 9 setting, stuck with 9. I can't hear either so I figured I'd move a little more air.

Which fan unit did you buy?
laserjock II is offline  
post #12748 of 14132 Old 08-29-2015, 02:21 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
gadgtfreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Bama
Posts: 12,139
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 634 Post(s)
Liked: 5935
http://www.ebay.com/itm/360590577966...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

XBR65A9G / XBR65A8F
Oppo UDP-203 / Sony X800M2
AVRX6500H / RP-8000F / RP-504C / RP-502S / FV15HP
gadgtfreek is online now  
post #12749 of 14132 Old 08-29-2015, 02:28 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
gadgtfreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Bama
Posts: 12,139
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 634 Post(s)
Liked: 5935
Correction, I went with 7.5 volts. The instructions for dual 80mm fans is 6v or 7.5v. It is very quiet and feels like it moves a good bit of air, I ended up putting them over the heat sinks because that is the warmest part of my avr after it has been running awhile.

According to the seller, 7.5 volts is 2/3 power, 40CFM, 16db and 1320 RPM.

XBR65A9G / XBR65A8F
Oppo UDP-203 / Sony X800M2
AVRX6500H / RP-8000F / RP-504C / RP-502S / FV15HP
gadgtfreek is online now  
post #12750 of 14132 Old 08-29-2015, 05:46 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
gadgtfreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Bama
Posts: 12,139
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 634 Post(s)
Liked: 5935
Those fans are pretty cool. I had to move the temp sensor to one side near a fan base because the very middle is cool and doesnt match up with the area over the heat sinks. Just watching some football at normal volume, the fan cuts on for about 1 min 45 secs, then off about 2 mins 30 secs, and then back on. pretty cool.

I assume some heat builds up, they turn on and move the hot air out (can tell it cool with my hand in the air coming off the fan) and then shut back off.

XBR65A9G / XBR65A8F
Oppo UDP-203 / Sony X800M2
AVRX6500H / RP-8000F / RP-504C / RP-502S / FV15HP
gadgtfreek is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Denon Avr 4520ci Receiver

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off