Advice needed: AV Receiver choice: yamaha rx-a810, rx-820, rx-1010 or Denon-2113ci - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
View Poll Results: Which receiver is a better choice?
Yamaha RX-A810 0 0%
Yamaha RX-A820 1 11.11%
Yamaha RX-A1010 1 11.11%
Denon 2113ci 7 77.78%
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post #1 of 21 Old 09-19-2012, 01:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Please could someone recommend a choice between the following receivers: (price listed)

1) Yamaha RX-A810. $398
2) Yamaha RX-A820. $629
3) Yamaha RX-A1010. $598
4) Denon AVR-2113ci. $489

Some are last years model which are now cheaper.

Appreciate any feedback - pros/cons.

Thanks!
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post #2 of 21 Old 09-19-2012, 01:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenzy786 View Post

Please could someone recommend a choice between the following receivers: (price listed)
1) Yamaha RX-A810. $398
2) Yamaha RX-A820. $629
3) Yamaha RX-A1010. $598
4) Denon AVR-2113ci. $489
Some are last years model which are now cheaper.
Appreciate any feedback - pros/cons.
Thanks!

Hi Frenzy,

In case Room Correction is important for you I'd recommend the Denon. It has Audyssey that takes care of EQ'ing the sub channel, while the Yamaha does nothing in this particular field. Or to put it another way, you may look for other brand AVRs with Audyssey on-board like Onkyo/ Integra/ Marantz.

YMMV.
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post #3 of 21 Old 09-19-2012, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the feedback. Aside from calibration use, which of the receivers would be better for movies with power. Which would be great based on features and give a more theater feel?
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post #4 of 21 Old 09-19-2012, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Frenzy786 View Post

Thanks for the feedback. Aside from calibration use, which of the receivers would be better for movies with power. Which would be great based on features and give a more theater feel?

Well, aside from calibration any of these models will do a good job in the power department. No issues to mention here. But you have to know the amp section in a modern HT system is the least responsible for that "movie theater feel" you are looking after.

Much much more depends on speakers/sub(s), their in-room placement, your room acoustics and how the speakers interact with them.

You didn't mention what speakers you are looking for and what kinda room you have. These are really more important than just the amp section of an AVR.
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post #5 of 21 Old 09-19-2012, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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The room size I am working with is about 14 x 16 I believe.
the speakers I am using are Onkyo 8ohms impedance which I receive in a 6.1 surround system package initially. They are rated at 100W.

between Yamaha and Denon which demonstrate a dynamic sound for movies better? Does the Unit power supply play a big role?
I noticed the Denon PSU is 500W and the Yamaha is 400W
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post #6 of 21 Old 09-19-2012, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenzy786 View Post

The room size I am working with is about 14 x 16 I believe.

Sounds like a "normal" living room.
Quote:
The speakers I am using are Onkyo 8ohms impedance which I receive in a 6.1 surround system package initially. They are rated at 100W.

Which model number?
Quote:
Between Yamaha and Denon which demonstrate a dynamic sound for movies better?

Definitely Denon, all because of Audyssey implementation. Audyssey beyond the MultEQ room equalization has another feature called DynamicEQ that takes care of low volume listening problems. If you want movie theater experience at your home you need to pump up the volume to so called "reference level", a level you hear at your local theater. But, hey, that's pretty loud in a home environment, so we start to turn down the volme to an acceptable level and that's where problems start to occur (dimisnishing lows and highs). DynamicEQ is desinged to restore the SQ (Sound Quality) of a movie thearter at lower volume levels in our homes.
Quote:
Does the Unit power supply play a big role? I noticed the Denon PSU is 500W and the Yamaha is 400W

Not a factor IMHO to be scrutinized in details. AVR power supplies are carefully designed, so feel free to take this issue off your check list. smile.gif
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post #7 of 21 Old 09-19-2012, 06:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Awesome information - Thank you!

I am narrowing it down to the the following receivers now:

Yamaha RX-A820

or

Denon 2113CI

or

The Yamaha 2011 model - RX-A1010 shows the specs as the following:

Channel 7.2
Rated Output Power (1kHz, 2ch driven) 120W (8ohms, 0.9% THD)
Rated Output Power (20Hz-20kHz, 2ch driven) 110W (8ohms, 0.06% THD)
Dynamic Power per Channel (8/6/4/2 ohms) 135/165/210/280 W

It lacks airplay and 4K but it is cheap for the price.
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post #8 of 21 Old 09-22-2012, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Definitely Denon, all because of Audyssey implementation. Audyssey beyond the MultEQ room equalization has another feature called DynamicEQ that takes care of low volume listening problems. If you want movie theater experience at your home you need to pump up the volume to so called "reference level", a level you hear at your local theater. But, hey, that's pretty loud in a home environment, so we start to turn down the volme to an acceptable level and that's where problems start to occur (dimisnishing lows and highs). DynamicEQ is desinged to restore the SQ (Sound Quality) of a movie thearter at lower volume levels in our homes.

I'm on the market for one of these same receivers, and lower volume sound quality isn't something I realized Denon (with Audyssey) would have such an edge over the competition. My previous front runner had been the Yamaha RX-820 / 1020, but low volume fidelity is so important to me! I'm now thinking that the Denon 2113CI may be all I really need. Time to search the interwebs for a sub $500 price from an authorized dealer...
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post #9 of 21 Old 09-23-2012, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Relleum View Post

I'm on the market for one of these same receivers, and lower volume sound quality isn't something I realized Denon (with Audyssey) would have such an edge over the competition. My previous front runner had been the Yamaha RX-820 / 1020, but low volume fidelity is so important to me! I'm now thinking that the Denon 2113CI may be all I really need. Time to search the interwebs for a sub $500 price from an authorized dealer...

Newegg had a sweet deal for a $350 gift card when buying the A820 today, so I decided to forget about audyssey and hope that the new 8-point YPAO will do the job. We'll see...
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post #10 of 21 Old 09-23-2012, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Relleum View Post

Newegg had a sweet deal for a $350 gift card when buying the A820 today, so I decided to forget about audyssey and hope that the new 8-point YPAO will do the job. We'll see...

Interesting to see how a gift card made you change your mind! smile.gif Hope they have a good return policy! smile.gif
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post #11 of 21 Old 09-23-2012, 03:35 PM
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Interesting to see how a gift card made you change your mind! smile.gif Hope they have a good return policy! smile.gif

Well, a $350 gift card is nearly 40% off the cost of the receiver, especially since I need to buy other stuff from newegg this week anyway.

Secondly, I read all over the internet about the differences between Audyssey and YPAO. Some people preferred YPAO (especially the newer version), and others liked Audyssey. The consensus is that they are very comparable. Could you explain to me precisely why DynamicEQ is so much better in low-volume settings? YPAO doesn't have any equivalent feature?

I still have time to cancel my order...
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post #12 of 21 Old 09-23-2012, 03:52 PM
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God dammit, nothing is ever easy. So I'm reading more and more about DynamicEQ, and how it's everything I've ever wanted in a receiver. And despite being out for so long as part of Audyssey, the folks over at Yamaha have yet to build in a comparable technology for YPAO. I'll keep reading & researching until someone chimes in, but I'm guessing that I'll have to cancel this order tonight.
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post #13 of 21 Old 09-24-2012, 07:59 AM
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Not to add to the confusion, but I purchased a Yamaha RX-A820 and am very pleased with the sound for both music and movies. The multi-point YPAO is very effective and the sound fields are much more expansive than my prior Yamaha RX-V650 which did not have multi-point YPAO. The 820 does have a new feature called "Adaptive DRC" (adaptive dynamic range control) which compensates for dynamics at lower volumes which sounds like it is similar to the Denon Dynamic EQ. There is also a subwoofer trim setting that I used to fine tune my Klipsch subwoofer. The networking features and iPhone/iPad/ Android apps are second to none on this receiver. Hope this helps.
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post #14 of 21 Old 09-24-2012, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by wreintg View Post

Not to add to the confusion, but I purchased a Yamaha RX-A820 and am very pleased with the sound for both music and movies. The multi-point YPAO is very effective and the sound fields are much more expansive than my prior Yamaha RX-V650 which did not have multi-point YPAO. The 820 does have a new feature called "Adaptive DRC" (adaptive dynamic range control) which compensates for dynamics at lower volumes which sounds like it is similar to the Denon Dynamic EQ. There is also a subwoofer trim setting that I used to fine tune my Klipsch subwoofer. The networking features and iPhone/iPad/ Android apps are second to none on this receiver. Hope this helps.

Agree, let's not add to the confusion. so, here's a quick comparision of Audyssey and Yamaha stuff:

Audyssey MultEQ <--> Yamaha YPAO
Audyssey DynamicEQ <--> Yamaha not available
Audyssey Dynamic Volume <--> Yamaha Adaptive DRC

You may go to Audyssey's and Yamaha's homepage to read a lot more before making the final decision on which AVR to buy. smile.gif
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post #15 of 21 Old 09-24-2012, 11:54 AM
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A bit more on Audyssey's DynamicEQ. It has a two tier operation system. In order to restore equal loudness curves first it looks at the AVR's Master Volume (MV) setting. At 0 dB movie reference level even when engaged DynEQ does nothing coz it's not needed.

Once the MV is turned down to a comfortable home listening level it starts to boost bass and highs (in other words turns down less), thus restoring the frequency curve needed for our human ears at that lower level.

Second tier comes into play when DynEQ looks into the contents and since there are always soft and loud parts of a passage it adjusts the curves on the fly (in real-time). It is so appearant you won't even notice it unless its taken away.

And one more thing. Experiments have proven that the sensitivity of our ears is always the highest up front and deteriorates to the sides. Therefore, when turning down the MV the surround speakers (and rear surrounds if any) are turned down less so as to restore the surround effect, otherwise the surround imaging would shrink to the front speakers with the MV turned down.

Think about it a bit. This is something only Audyssey offers on the consumer market as of today. smile.gif
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post #16 of 21 Old 09-24-2012, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

A bit more on Audyssey's DynamicEQ. It has a two tier operation system. In order to restore equal loudness curves first it look at the AVR's Master Volume (MV) setting. At 0 dB movire reference level even when engaged DynEQ does nothing coz it's not needed.
Once the MV is turned down to a comnfortable home listening level it starts to boost bass and highs (in other words turns down less), thus restoring the frequency curve needed for our human ears at that lower level.
Second tier comes into play when DynEQ looks into the contents and since there are always soft and loud parts of a passage it adjusts the curves on the fly (in real-time). It is so appearant you won't even notice it unless its taken away.
And one more thing. Experiments have proven that the sensitivity of our ears is always the highest up front and deteriorates to the sides. Therefore, when turning down the MV the surround speakers (and rear surrounds is any) are turned down less so as to restore the surround effect, otherwise the surround imaging would shrink to the front speakers with the MV turned down.
Think about it a bit. This is something only Audyssey offers on the consumer market as of today. smile.gif

DynamicEQ sounds so awesome, and so useful. I ended up not cancelling the order for the A820, and it will ship this afternoon. But I might buy the 2113CI too, and see which one I like the best (especially when listening at low levels).
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post #17 of 21 Old 09-24-2012, 03:56 PM
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Well mogorf, I hope you are satisfied. I purchased the Denon AVR-2113CI this afternoon. Now I have two receivers on the way, and I'm not really sure what I'll do at this point. Open and try them both? The denon is coming from Vann's, which has a great return policy. However, the Yamaha is coming from Newegg, and technically their policy is to charge 15% on opened items that are returned. I may just deny delivery on the Yamaha.

Sigh.
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post #18 of 21 Old 09-24-2012, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Relleum View Post

Well mogorf, I hope you are satisfied. I purchased the Denon AVR-2113CI this afternoon. Now I have two receivers on the way, and I'm not really sure what I'll do at this point. Open and try them both? The denon is coming from Vann's, which has a great return policy. However, the Yamaha is coming from Newegg, and technically their policy is to charge 15% on opened items that are returned. I may just deny delivery on the Yamaha.
Sigh.

And I hope YOU are also satisfied. wink.gif Now comes the tough part. On one hand you are ONE lucky devil to have two AVRs with different technology under your roof, but the game has started. The game for making an unbiased comparision. The lucky part is that you can make a comparision in your own room with your own speakers. The tough part is how to do it properly.

Setting up each AVR with it's YPAO and Audyssey is surely the starting point, but the tedious part will be the A/B double-blind testing. Beware of facts like in case one AVR is playing louder than the other then that will lead to a biased position for the louder one, or the ability of auditory memory is pretty much limited for us human beings, so it will need a lot of iteration till finally you can pick the one you like most. Being no expert on the blind testing scheme it might be worth for you to start another thread asking experts to chime in with their suggestions on how to carry out such unbiased double-blind tests in the home environment.

Lookin' forward to your results with great interest, indeed. smile.gif
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post #19 of 21 Old 09-24-2012, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank for the information from both of you.
I read more about the audessey EQ XT feature and it is very interesting. I read more negative feedback on YPAO tech.
The only other feature I actually liked on the Yamaha was the ability to do standby HDMI input switching using the remote without having to turn the receiver on.
Wish the denon 2113 did this feature. They use a dedicated HDMI standby source or you can use the LAST option to have the last used input be the standby source.
I just wish there were more review on the Denon 2113ci online.
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post #20 of 21 Old 10-13-2012, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Relleum,
Did you end up running comparison tests between the denon 2113 and yamaha 820?
Curious to see what your impressions were.
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post #21 of 21 Old 10-13-2012, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenzy786 View Post

Relleum,
Did you end up running comparison tests between the denon 2113 and yamaha 820?
Curious to see what your impressions were.

I actually rejected the Yamaha, and just crossed my fingers with the Denon. So far so good, although I think I need to run audyssey again to make sure everything's perfect.
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