Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 13725 Old 10-19-2012, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin C Brown View Post

Well, the power supply has to be different ... because you don't need power for the power amps in the 8801.
biggrin.gif
But I bet the DACs are the same.

True but I'm still curious as to the differences that Dr_Mark alludes to.

Bill

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post #122 of 13725 Old 10-19-2012, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Did someone ever compare a SR7005 with a AV7005? Shouldn't that give us a clue what to expect?
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post #123 of 13725 Old 10-19-2012, 05:04 PM
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I find it amusing that it seems like Marantz values their amps in the SR vs AV at about $100.

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post #124 of 13725 Old 10-19-2012, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post

Did someone ever compare a SR7005 with a AV7005? Shouldn't that give us a clue what to expect?

The pre/pro will always sound best as the amps are key to the sound smile.gif

Also what do you think will SOUND BEST!

- Marantz AV8801

- Onkyo PR-SC5508P

- Integra DHC-80.3 , http://www.integrahometheater.com/model.cfm?class=Preamplifier&m=DHC-80.3&p=i

- Pioneer Elite SC-68 THX® Ultra 2 Plus and AIR Studios® Monitor Certified A/V used as a pre/pro http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Elite+Receivers/SC-68

- Yamaha Avantage http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/aventage/rx-a3020_black_u/?mode=model Unfortunately no IIz or DTS NeoX

Who knows what the new bread of Integra will be at CES 2013


Now when they incorporate this then, I will upgrade smile.gif

http://ocunwired.blog.ocregister.com/2012/02/12/multi-dimensional-audio-the-most-revolutionary-technology-at-ces/13207/
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post #125 of 13725 Old 10-19-2012, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo.USMC View Post

I find it amusing that it seems like Marantz values their amps in the SR vs AV at about $100.

They make more money on the SR than the AV wink.gif
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post #126 of 13725 Old 10-20-2012, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Do you have specific information showing the DACs and the power supplies used in both the 8801 and the 4520?
Bill

I have info in my hands explaining what it has as key selling points. So yes I do.

NEW 32/196 DAC, the 4520 have a varienty of DAC's, anything from 24/96 and up. The DAC's in the 8801 are "new" not just a rehash of older tech.
Troidal trans power supply
XLR's
HDAM for sound
and a few other upgrades over the 4520.

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post #127 of 13725 Old 10-20-2012, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Mark View Post

I have info in my hands explaining what it has as key selling points. So yes I do.
NEW 32/196 DAC, the 4520 have a varienty of DAC's, anything from 24/96 and up. The DAC's in the 8801 are "new" not just a rehash of older tech.
Troidal trans power supply
XLR's
HDAM for sound
and a few other upgrades over the 4520.

Can you attach the white paper please so we can read it smile.gif
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post #128 of 13725 Old 10-20-2012, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo.USMC View Post

I believe the AVP-A1HD is truly balanced when pairing it with the amp they sell that complements it. The
POA-A1HD.

It indeed is fully balanced one of the few on sale at the moment :

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/processors/denon-avp-a1hdci/Denonbalanced.jpg/image_view_fullscreen

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/processors/denon-avp-a1hdci/AVPA1HDCI_POAA1HDCI_disassembly_image_E3.jpg/image

and

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/processors/denon-avp-a1hdci/review-addendum-balanced-transmission-further-explored

You can argue how much extra this fully balanced brings in a mostly digital world except for the output stage. Running it balanced in also means the loss of things like audyssey xt32 that most owners (including me) use.

Most only use the 3 front channels 'balanced' in that they bridge them as shown in the image. The image itself shows all 10 channels this way but that means you need to use 2 POA's for 20 channels that can be merged to 10 balanced channels of 300watt's at 8Ohm or 600 at 4Ohms.

With D&M moving denon to low and midrange and marantz up and mcintosh sold we won't see anything from D&M at this level for a while if ever.

Daniel.

PS: To be ontopic a nice discounted AVP would also be a nice option if you stay within its 12channel limit.

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post #129 of 13725 Old 10-20-2012, 08:49 AM
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Why would running it in balanced mode lose XT32!??
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post #130 of 13725 Old 10-20-2012, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

Why would running it in balanced mode lose XT32!??

If you use balanced in and want to use xt32 or any other processing the signal is made digital and thus non-balanced until it hits the last part again. That part will/is balanced again sorry if i was unclear does this help?

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post #131 of 13725 Old 10-20-2012, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo.USMC View Post

I believe the AVP-A1HD is truly balanced when pairing it with the amp they sell that complements it. The
POA-A1HD.
Based on the schemes danielo was so kind to link to, can I conclude that if the outputs are to be used fully balanced, you need to use two amp channels of the POA for each output (hence you need two POA for anything above 5.x)?

How do you do that since each XLR output is singular?

Also, couldn't you use a (fully balanced) Emotiva XPA-1 for any XLR output instead?

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post #132 of 13725 Old 10-20-2012, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post

If you use balanced in and want to use xt32 or any other processing the signal is made digital and thus non-balanced until it hits the last part again. That part will/is balanced again sorry if i was unclear does this help?
Daniel.

Makes sense.

So if you use XLR inputs and use Pure Direct, it stays in balanced throughout.

And if you use HDMI/digital sources, it processes the signals in the DAC balanced and output as balanced.

I'd expect the Marantz to work the same. No?
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post #133 of 13725 Old 10-20-2012, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium View Post

Based on the schemes danielo was so kind to link to, can I conclude that if the outputs are to be used fully balanced, you need to use two amp channels of the POA for each output (hence you need two POA for anything above 5.x)?
How do you do that since each XLR output is singular?
Also, couldn't you use a (fully balanced) Emotiva XPA-1 for any XLR output instead?

I don't understand the xlr coming out is balanced (has the signal 2 times, once flipped). Either you use 1 channel to amplify this or you amplify both signals (so use 2 amps) and feed each of the signals to the speaker. The speaker will see only see the difference between the 2 levels so keeping all the goodness of balanced. As a side effect it will allow for all the other pro's (and con's) of bridging.

And yes you can use other amps no need to use a POA (or 2, or 3 it does support 3 btw) to do this except for the flexible setup and the fact you can mix match how the 10 channels (per poa) can be used there is nothing special about this amp.

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post #134 of 13725 Old 10-20-2012, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

Makes sense.
So if you use XLR inputs and use Pure Direct, it stays in balanced throughout.
And if you use HDMI/digital sources, it processes the signals in the DAC balanced and output as balanced.
I'd expect the Marantz to work the same. No?

Personally since its based on the 4520 i doubt it, i think it just has xlr's on the back but maybe someone else can tell you. The extra parts
needed todo this for 13 channels would be costly and doubt they can do this for this price. But maybe someone can show us some real info on this?

Daniel.

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post #135 of 13725 Old 10-20-2012, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Mark View Post

I have info in my hands explaining what it has as key selling points. So yes I do.
NEW 32/196 DAC, the 4520 have a varienty of DAC's, anything from 24/96 and up. The DAC's in the 8801 are "new" not just a rehash of older tech.
Troidal trans power supply
XLR's
HDAM for sound
and a few other upgrades over the 4520.

That sounds good!
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post #136 of 13725 Old 10-20-2012, 10:41 AM
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My rationale for saying the 8801 isn't worth $3,000 isn't to difficult to follow;

while this highly anticipated, new product will likely be spectacular, the amount
of stuff in it has declined significantly. Stuff, meaning components. The pred-
ecessor, $2,400 8003 had 117 inputs/outputs in the back. The 8801 has 104.
The manufacturing cost of parts and labor, if anything, have declined in a post
tsunami Japan. Yes, there is a lot of new, exciting technology in the 8801, i.e.
- XT32 - the cost of which can't be more than a few bucks for Marantz to install.
$600 + more, for lesss tuff?

The $3,000 + numbers being tossed around in this thread are nothing but hype.
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post #137 of 13725 Old 10-20-2012, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiho View Post

My rationale for saying the 8801 isn't worth $3,000 isn't to difficult to follow;
while this highly anticipated, new product will likely be spectacular, the amount
of stuff in it has declined significantly. Stuff, meaning components. The pred-
ecessor, $2,400 8003 had 117 inputs/outputs in the back. The 8801 has 104.
The manufacturing cost of parts and labor, if anything, have declined in a post
tsunami Japan. Yes, there is a lot of new, exciting technology in the 8801, i.e.
- XT32 - the cost of which can't be more than a few bucks for Marantz to install.
$600 + more, for lesss tuff?
The $3,000 + numbers being tossed around in this thread are nothing but hype.

Isn't the value to you what should count and not what it has 'cost' them ? For me XT32 alone was a reason for me to upgrade my AVP for $1200/1200euro what it cost D&M todo it has no effect on the difference between XT and XT32 to me.


Daniel.

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post #138 of 13725 Old 10-20-2012, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiho View Post

My rationale for saying the 8801 isn't worth $3,000 isn't to difficult to follow;
while this highly anticipated, new product will likely be spectacular, the amount
of stuff in it has declined significantly. Stuff, meaning components. The pred-
ecessor, $2,400 8003 had 117 inputs/outputs in the back. The 8801 has 104.
The manufacturing cost of parts and labor, if anything, have declined in a post
tsunami Japan. Yes, there is a lot of new, exciting technology in the 8801, i.e.
- XT32 - the cost of which can't be more than a few bucks for Marantz to install.
$600 + more, for lesss tuff?
The $3,000 + numbers being tossed around in this thread are nothing but hype.

You are judging the unit on number of inputs (gone are the components, composite, analog inputs, say hello to HDMI and 11.2) and post-tsunami labor for example? And you say it will have "less" stuff? I am not following you, sorry.

This unit fills a niche between the excellent AV7005/7701 which are competitively priced and the more high-end products that are over $5,000. You can also ask 'why' is a processor worth $5,000? Or $6,000? etc.
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post #139 of 13725 Old 10-20-2012, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post

You are judging the unit on number of inputs (gone are the components, composite, analog inputs, say hello to HDMI and 11.2) and post-tsunami labor for example? And you say it will have "less" stuff? I am not following you, sorry.
This unit fills a niche between the excellent AV7005/7701 which are competitively priced and the more high-end products that are over $5,000. You can also ask 'why' is a processor worth $5,000? Or $6,000? etc.

I wish Marantz would go completely digital for all inputs with the exception of true analogue XLR input for stereo, and XLR differential for the amp connections. Forget component, S video, composite and all the analogue RCA biggrin.gif
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post #140 of 13725 Old 10-20-2012, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiho View Post

The $3,000 + numbers being tossed around in this thread are nothing but hype.

Not hype, the initial price was $2,999. With the additional copper jacket, aluminum front facia and massive power supply, the price went up. They are estimating it between $3,400-$3,600. The real price has not been set yet. I was also told, the power supply on the 8801 will actually be significantly better than the 4520 WITH amps.
Last the XLR's are not "fully" balanced.

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post #141 of 13725 Old 10-20-2012, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Mark View Post

Not hype, the initial price was $2,999. With the additional copper jacket, aluminum front facia and massive power supply, the price went up. They are estimating it between $3,400-$3,600. The real price has not been set yet. I was also told, the power supply on the 8801 will actually be significantly better than the 4520 WITH amps.
Last the XLR's are not "fully" balanced.

Sound to me like a $3,499 price point ... wink.gif

What interests me is that Marantz believes there is a market for this product (there clearly is). I am really, really excited about this unit and I hope it sounds at least as good as the AV7005.
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post #142 of 13725 Old 10-20-2012, 12:50 PM
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Looking at the picture for the 4520 and the 8801 ive noticed that the second zone HDMI is now zone 4 versus zone 2 on the marantz 7007/7701. Depending on the end users application this could be good or bad, obviously there have been some design changes since same model year products.
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post #143 of 13725 Old 10-20-2012, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Mark View Post

I have info in my hands explaining what it has as key selling points. So yes I do.
NEW 32/196 DAC, the 4520 have a varienty of DAC's, anything from 24/96 and up. The DAC's in the 8801 are "new" not just a rehash of older tech.
Troidal trans power supply
XLR's
HDAM for sound
and a few other upgrades over the 4520.

I'm not really well versed in DACs but I have never seen 196kHz before. I have seen 192kHz but not 196kHz. Could you elaborate on "The DAC's in the 8801 are "new" not just a rehash of older tech". In others words do the DACs in the 8801 have some form of new technology that current DACs do not have? What are the "few other upgrades" that the 8801 has over the 4520?

Bill

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Emotiva XMC-1, Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE (preamp), SX-500s, ST-500, ST-250, Marantz SA-10, Oppo UDP-205, UDP-203, BDP-105, BDP-103, BDP-93, BDP-83, Panasonic TC-P60GT50, Panamax 5100EX, Salk HT2-TLs, Salk 1801b center, Salk 1801TL (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
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post #144 of 13725 Old 10-20-2012, 01:40 PM
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I assume it's 32/192, but the paper has 32/196 on it. The few other upgrades I was told are being worked out and not announced yet.. As for the new DAC's no detail on it, I could assume new software but don't know yet. I have that question sent in to Corp through my dealer.

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post #145 of 13725 Old 10-20-2012, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Mark View Post

I assume it's 32/192, but the paper has 32/196 on it. The few other upgrades I was told are being worked out and not announced yet.. As for the new DAC's no detail on it, I could assume new software but don't know yet. I have that question sent in to Corp through my dealer.

Not gonna buy, those last 4 bits are a deal breaker..

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post #146 of 13725 Old 10-20-2012, 02:04 PM
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post #147 of 13725 Old 10-20-2012, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Mark View Post

I assume it's 32/192, but the paper has 32/196 on it. The few other upgrades I was told are being worked out and not announced yet.. As for the new DAC's no detail on it, I could assume new software but don't know yet. I have that question sent in to Corp through my dealer.

To be honest I think it would be best if you waited till there is an actual announcement from Marantz. One can get a lot of speculation and incorrect information second or third hand from a dealer.

Bill

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post #148 of 13725 Old 10-20-2012, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycholis View Post

Not gonna buy, those last 4 bits are a deal breaker..

Lucky the second number is speed in khz not bits smile.gif. This unit as its starting point will be 32bits not much you can do about it. The internal sample rate will be 192khz i am guessing that all signals will be upsampled to that when digital work is done on it to keep the chain simple. Maybe the marantz has a different dac layout at the end but i doubt the internal bit depth/rate is different from the basic design.

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post #149 of 13725 Old 10-20-2012, 02:16 PM
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That sounds good!

+1
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post #150 of 13725 Old 10-20-2012, 04:03 PM
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I hope the 8801 doesn't have the plastic panels on the front like the 7005/7701. They would be out of place on a $3500 product.
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Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

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Ken Kreisel Dxd 12012 Subwoofer , Marantz Av8801 , Receivers Amplifiers , Audyssey , Integra

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