The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 306 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9151 of 13279 Old 10-20-2014, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
^^
Correct, however, if your FL/FR speakers are indeed set to SMALL (as is recommended), there is no need for you to change the factory LFE default from "LFE" to "LFE+MAIN". There is only one LPF for the sub, the LPF for LFE.
Good point! haha

Ok, so next question then. If I set the LPF for LFE to 80hz, if there is content in the LFE track of say a Blu-Ray above 80hz will it be filtered out? or played by my mains?

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post #9152 of 13279 Old 10-20-2014, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squiers007 View Post
Ok, maybe this is a dumb question, I have the X2000 and when you set the crossover setting in the Manual setup "Speakers" menu is this only the HPF for the speakers or is this also setting the LPF for the sub? I'm confused because no where in the "Bass" menu does it state that you are selecting the LPF for the sub, only for the LFE content.. Is this the same thing? I feel like if I set the "Bass" crossover setting lower than 120hz I'll be removing LFE content. Right now Audyssey set my L & R to 60hz, center at 80hz and surrounds at 100hz. LFE crossover is set to 120hz (LFE + main). Thanks in advance.
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
^^
HPF for the speakers only. The LPF for LFE only applies to the LFE (0.1) signal. Reset the sub to (LFE) and not (LFE+MAIN) otherwise you're getting "double bass" from both the LFE and FL/FR speakers which can result in "bloated" bass.
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Originally Posted by squiers007 View Post
Good point! haha

Ok, so next question then. If I set the LPF for LFE to 80hz, if there is content in the LFE track of say a Blu-Ray above 80hz will it be filtered out? or played by my mains?
Let's clear something up here. A crossover is, by definition, TWO sides. An HPF and and LPF. When you set a specific speaker to an 80Hz crossover, it is setting BOTH an 80Hz HPF on the speaker side, and an 80Hz LPF for the filtered signal that is combined into the SW output.

The LPF for LFE, as JD noted, has nothing to do with crossovers and it only affects the LFE channel (.1). It is not a crossover as there is no HPF on the other side redirecting the signal above the LPF freq back to the speakers. It is simply increasing the steepness of the roll-off of the upper end of the LFE channel.

So in your situation, the subwoofer will play the following signals, summed together:

- Redirected bass content in the L/R channels filtered at 60Hz
- Redirected bass content in the CC channel filtered at 80Hz
- Redirected bass content in the SL/SR channels filtered at 100Hz
- LFE content filtered at 120Hz

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post #9153 of 13279 Old 10-20-2014, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William K View Post
Sorry if this is a newbie question but can you have two separate setups on the X4000. One with Audyssey and one without (all manual) and switch back and forth from one to the other in any way?
Not sure what you mean by "separate setup" but you can simply disable Audyssey which will turn off MultEQ filters and all other Audyssey stuff (Dynamic EQ, Volume etc). Distances, levels speaker trims and crossovers will be preserved as these aren't really "Audyssey settings", but rather global configuration parameters that are independent of EQ.

You can then switch to Graphic EQ and customize your own EQ sliders, or just leave EQ off completely and use the tone controls for bass/treble adjustment.

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post #9154 of 13279 Old 10-20-2014, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Let's clear something up here. A crossover is, by definition, TWO sides. An HPF and and LPF. When you set a specific speaker to an 80Hz crossover, it is setting BOTH an 80Hz HPF on the speaker side, and an 80Hz LPF for the filtered signal that is combined into the SW output.

The LPF for LFE, as JD noted, has nothing to do with crossovers and it only affects the LFE channel (.1). It is not a crossover as there is no HPF on the other side redirecting the signal above the LPF freq back to the speakers. It is simply increasing the steepness of the roll-off of the upper end of the LFE channel.

So in your situation, the subwoofer will play the following signals, summed together:

- Redirected bass content in the L/R channels filtered at 60Hz
- Redirected bass content in the CC channel filtered at 80Hz
- Redirected bass content in the SL/SR channels filtered at 100Hz
- LFE content filtered at 120Hz
I have to disagree with your assertion that a crossover by definition is 2 sided. You can easily set up speakers be it active or passive with separate lpf and hpf filters, they do not have to occur at the same frequency. In addition there is no lpf for a tweeter, nor does there have to be a hpf for a woofer, simply a rolloff at the other end.

Unless I understand how the crossovers in the denon work, no content gets actively transfered to another channel (except LFE content), but rather content above or below the crossover is simply filtered out. .. please correct me if this is wrong as I don't have much knowledge when it comes to avr's but have a lot more when it comes to active car audio setups.

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post #9155 of 13279 Old 10-20-2014, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William K View Post
Sorry if this is a newbie question but can you have two separate setups on the X4000. One with Audyssey and one without (all manual) and switch back and forth from one to the other in any way?
No. You would have to disable Audyssey and make your changes. Then change them back and enable Audyssey again.

Last edited by jdsmoothie; 10-20-2014 at 05:06 PM.
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post #9156 of 13279 Old 10-20-2014, 04:54 PM
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I'm having some major issues with my X4000's secondary HDMI monitor. I finished my basement, and have 3 total TVs. The two "extra" TVs are connected via HDMI over dual cat6 ethernet HDMI extenders. The "zone 2" screen works pretty much all the time, the occasional HDMI handshake issue notwithstanding. I can have it running the same or different input from the primary TV, no issues.

The problem is with the third screen, a TV in the bar that I just want to mirror what's on the main TV (which was a factor my selection of the X4000, with it's secondary HDMI monitor for the primary zone). The short version is that it appears the secondary HDMI output of my X4000 just won't work. I can hook either TV up to the separate zone 2, and it works fine. If I hook either of them up to the "mirror" zone 1 HDMI output, I see one of the following behaviors:

1. Both TVs search for signal (primary TV and mirror/TV2). Sometimes main zone plays the input's audio, although both TVs are blank.
2. TV2 gets a signal occasionally, but mostly is searching for signal. Main TV frequently sync-cycles, losing signal for a few seconds and then reconnecting.

I have tried adding a powered HDMI amplifier, both at the end near the receiver and near TV2. No meaningful change (maybe I get signal a little more often on TV2, but it's all so erratic it's hard to tell). Again, if I switch things around and hook up one of the secondary TVs to the independent "Zone 2" HDMI, they both work fine. So the signal of those HDMI over ethernet runs -- which really aren't incredibly long (well within the tolerances of the extenders), and which I've tested using network equipment -- shouldn't be the issue. Unless there's something so drastically different about the way the X4000 handles a TV attached to Zone 2 vs one attached to Monitor 2.

Any ideas? Thanks!
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post #9157 of 13279 Old 10-20-2014, 05:03 PM
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^^
Try swapping the HDMI/Cat 6 cables to each extra TV and see if that changes anything. Try doing a soft reset by unplugging the power cable to the X4000. Try doing an HDMI HDCP reset as noted in my post below. If the bar TV is mobile, connect it with a shorter (eg. 6') cable to the HDMI Monitor 2 output to see if the issue still presents.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...d-faq.html#l11
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post #9158 of 13279 Old 10-20-2014, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
^^
No. You would have to disable Audyssey and make your changes. Then change them back and enable Audyssey again.
I don't follow. ..

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post #9159 of 13279 Old 10-20-2014, 05:08 PM
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^^
That reply was meant for another poster.

In your case however, try not to get caught up in semantics. Batpig has listed at the bottom of his response exactly what is occurring in your setup based on the various speaker crossover and sub LPF setting.

Last edited by jdsmoothie; 10-20-2014 at 05:12 PM.
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post #9160 of 13279 Old 10-20-2014, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squiers007 View Post
Unless I understand how the crossovers in the denon work, no content gets actively transfered to another channel (except LFE content), but rather content above or below the crossover is simply filtered out. .. please correct me if this is wrong as I don't have much knowledge when it comes to avr's but have a lot more when it comes to active car audio setups.
The crossover in receivers is always two sides, HPF on the speaker side and LPF on the subwoofer side. Each channel (excepting LFE) receives a full bandwidth signal. The crossover frequency determines where the digital HPF is applied to that speaker channel. Then the signal is copied to the subwoofer channel and the LPF at the same frequency is applied so the subwoofer only plays the redirected bass below the crossover freq (yes there are slopes and stuff too, just being simple). So basically the bass management is an active crossover that divides the signal prior to amplification, and sends it to two different places.

I understand the points you are making but they are largely academic. A crossover, by definition, is splitting an audio signal into two separate frequency bands. Sure, they don't have to match frequencies of the LPF and HPF in other applications. And I believe you that there are scenarios where you can use the active roll-off of the driver as an implicit filter on one side of the crossover. But any way you slice it, a crossover by nature is two sided. The LPF for LFE in the receivers is not a crossover as it's only one-sided, there is no redirection.

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post #9161 of 13279 Old 10-20-2014, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
The crossover in receivers is always two sides, HPF on the speaker side and LPF on the subwoofer side. Each channel (excepting LFE) receives a full bandwidth signal. The crossover frequency determines where the digital HPF is applied to that speaker channel. Then the signal is copied to the subwoofer channel and the LPF at the same frequency is applied so the subwoofer only plays the redirected bass below the crossover freq (yes there are slopes and stuff too, just being simple). So basically the bass management is an active crossover that divides the signal prior to amplification, and sends it to two different places.

I understand the points you are making but they are largely academic. A crossover, by definition, is splitting an audio signal into two separate frequency bands. Sure, they don't have to match frequencies of the LPF and HPF in other applications. And I believe you that there are scenarios where you can use the active roll-off of the driver as an implicit filter on one side of the crossover. But any way you slice it, a crossover by nature is two sided. The LPF for LFE in the receivers is not a crossover as it's only one-sided, there is no redirection.
Thank you for the clarification. That helps.

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post #9162 of 13279 Old 10-20-2014, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Onk Yo View Post
I see the link in post #3 now that batpig pointed it out. It does say if you have trouble with IE go to post #4 . Tbh, that section was a bit confusing.

Thanks batpig, that worked! I see both the Save and Load using that URL.
As to the SAVE/LOAD function, just wanted to report that I came across a post that said to use IE in compatibility mode if you don't get the SAVE/LOAD showing up in it and that worked for me - good save without all zeroes. I didn't find that post before in my search. jdsmoothie... perhaps this would be good info to add to your outstanding guide on page 1.

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post #9163 of 13279 Old 10-20-2014, 06:22 PM
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^^
It's been in post #4 on page 1 for over a year now.
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post #9164 of 13279 Old 10-20-2014, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
^^
It's been in post #4 on page 1 for over a year now.
I guess I didn't see it there because by that point I was using the modified link for Firefox, but I don't like using the Firefox link because it doesn't feel right since I can't get to it without using the "secret passage".

I think it would make things easier if it were in Post #3 , which is what I was thinking when I posted, since that's the post where the original instructions are, where as #4 is the troubleshooting area. Just a suggestion.

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post #9165 of 13279 Old 10-21-2014, 03:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
No. You would have to disable Audyssey and make your changes. Then change them back and enable Audyssey again.
Why would simply turning Audyssey OFF not enable the "all manual" setup that the OP asked about?

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post #9166 of 13279 Old 10-21-2014, 03:44 AM
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^^
Audyssey only sets the EQ, not the other parameters (eg. SMALL/LARGE, distance, volume level). So disabling Audyssey still leaves you with the same values for those parameters. If all the OP wants to do is to play with the Graphic EQ, then yes, he simply needs to select Graphic EQ (disabling Audyssey) and when he is done he can return to Audyssey by selecting Audyssey (disabling the Graphic EQ).

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post #9167 of 13279 Old 10-21-2014, 06:42 AM
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Anyone have airplay issues with ios 8.0.2?

Please feel free to move this if its not in the right spot. I have a Denon x3000, and up until I updated the software on my apple devices I dont get an option for airplay, its like it cant find the Denon on the network. I tried rebooting my router, rebooting my devices and neither worked. My denon is connected to the internet because I can see it when I log into my router, and when I go to the menu and run a test on the Denon it says its connected, plus my denon app works perfectly controlling it on the network. A google search resulted in others having this problem but little to no solution.
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post #9168 of 13279 Old 10-21-2014, 06:49 AM
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^^
I list a number of Troubleshooting tips in post 3 of this thread, to include the following in regards to the Airplay icon no longer displaying after a firmware update. See if it resolves your issue.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...ad-faq.html#L1
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post #9169 of 13279 Old 10-21-2014, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
^^
I list a number of Troubleshooting tips in post 3 of this thread, to include the following in regards to the Airplay icon no longer displaying after a firmware update. See if it resolves your issue.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...ad-faq.html#L1

Thank you, I will try those steps
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post #9170 of 13279 Old 10-21-2014, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
^^
I list a number of Troubleshooting tips in post 3 of this thread, to include the following in regards to the Airplay icon no longer displaying after a firmware update. See if it resolves your issue.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...ad-faq.html#L1
I just got my x4000 and updated the fw to the latest and have a iPhone 6 + running 8.0.2. When trying to get AirPlay to work I could not find the icon at all in the music app. I only found it by swiping up on the phone for the control center. It was right there instead. I don't know if this was the way it always was as my older Denon had no internet connection.
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post #9171 of 13279 Old 10-21-2014, 08:56 AM
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Does anyone know if end users should always contact Denon directly for warranty service, or can they go through the retailer? I bought the X4000 less than a year ago from a retailer in Canada. The receiver is shutting down randomly. The power indicator flashes red afterwards. So far I can switch it back on each time, but it will shut down intermittently. It's happened at least once a few months ago, and has happened several times yesterday.
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post #9172 of 13279 Old 10-21-2014, 08:59 AM
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^^
Can't say how it works in Canada, but in the USA, all retailers will generally have a return period (eg. 15-30 days) after which you must either contact Denon directly or an authorized repair facility if one is in your local area.
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post #9173 of 13279 Old 10-21-2014, 09:10 AM
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When 1 reset doesn't work ... do 4-5.

Here is yet another owner who was able to resolve his issue by doing multiple microprocessor resets (in this case "network resets") when a single reset didn't work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyecake View Post
I have just registered to thank you very much for this advice on resetting my 3311 , on which the HDMI functions had stopped working.
First there was Blank Black screen but sound through the speakers, After first reset there was no sound and random coloured lines on screen. Ready to despair I was sure it was for the bin but I tried resetting another 4 times and suddenly its all working again.
The 3311 replaced a 4308 on which the HDMI function failed but all other functions including optical but was told by Denon it could not be repaired and was out of warranty. I gave it to a relative who still uses its not HDMI functions.
I wonder could it be reset too?
There's a reason it's listed in my sig folks.
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post #9174 of 13279 Old 10-21-2014, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
^^
Try swapping the HDMI/Cat 6 cables to each extra TV and see if that changes anything. Try doing a soft reset by unplugging the power cable to the X4000. Try doing an HDMI HDCP reset as noted in my post below. If the bar TV is mobile, connect it with a shorter (eg. 6') cable to the HDMI Monitor 2 output to see if the issue still presents.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...d-faq.html#l11
Thanks. I'd already tried swapping the ethernet cables around. I went through the HDCP reset but no change. I unmounted the bar TV and carried it over to the receiver, and connected directly to the X4000 there was no issue.

HOWEVER, swapping the other TVs (as you suggested) causes problems -- meaning I can take the TV that's on Zone 2 and works perfectly, simply move the cable from Zone 2 HDMI out to Monitor 2, and it won't work. Same cables, same HDMI extenders, etc. So something is different about the way the X4000 handles the signal between those HDMI outputs.

Placing an HDMI signal booster on the line (near the receiver, oddly, not the TV which is usually recommended) helps somewhat, but even at max boost it doesn't eliminate the TV from losing its picture every few seconds (then immediately coming back). This behavior is consistent no matter which TV I connect Monitor 2 to. The good news is that putting the signal booster in there eliminates the main TV from ever picture/HDMI handshake cycling.

I've ordered a different HDMI booster and am going to see if that helps. Or maybe I just order an HDMI splitter and abandon the X4000's built-in Monitor 2.
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post #9175 of 13279 Old 10-22-2014, 07:34 AM
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Sent the X4000 off to Panurgy today to have them look at the flashing light/shutdown problem. Replaced the Denon with an old Yamaha from a garage sale. Set up streaming from my Samsung smart tv. Seems to me the quality of music reproduction has gone up in a major way. One channel in particular (The Jonathan Channel) is often distorted and "muddy" sounding on the Denon -- now is really pretty good quality. I can't believe that the tv is putting out a better signal or that the Yamaha is a better amp. In any case, I asked Panurgy to check out the streaming hardware as well. We shall see!
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post #9176 of 13279 Old 10-22-2014, 09:09 AM
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Zero luck with the search function so far, hoping you guys can help out.

Denon AVR-E300 - Now that I've finally got it hooked up, I no longer have to switch HDMI sources on my TV since everything shows up through HDMI 1 to the receiver. To minimize input lag while playing video games, I used to turn off all display enhancements (Sony KDL55-HX820) for the video game HDMI input, but for watching TV I would typically leave them on. With everything being on the same HDMI channel to the receiver, my display options have to be at one or the other unless I manually change them each time I change input. Anybody have a similar situation?

Was unsure where to post this originally, so if it belongs in the TV section please let me know.

Thanks!

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post #9177 of 13279 Old 10-22-2014, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Well.... it is what it is. You have to decide which compromise you prefer.

Is it really important to you to use different TV inputs so that you don't have to manually adjust picture settings? Then it's probably worth running the HDMI from the cable box straight to the TV (using a different HDMI input) so you can maintain different settings. A $50 Harmony universal remote can handle the input switching for you.

Is it more important to have the simplicity of all devices connected to the receiver? Then deal with the fact that you might have to manually adjust picture settings on the TV sometimes.

You can get into more exotic solutions too like an HDMI splitter from the receiver output that will feed two HDMI inputs on the TV (with different memorized picture settings) so you can maintain all devices connected to the receiver and then feed two inputs on the TV depending on the situation. Again, here you may want to introduce a programmable universal with macros/activities to coordinate the various switching.
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post #9178 of 13279 Old 10-22-2014, 11:02 AM
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Would a Harmony remote be able to change the picture settings to start each activity? I've had luck with things like that in the past, but it depends on the particular display device.
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post #9179 of 13279 Old 10-22-2014, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickTheGreat View Post
Would a Harmony remote be able to change the picture settings to start each activity? I've had luck with things like that in the past, but it depends on the particular display device.
That really depends on the specific display. if there are discrete codes available for the various picture settings then it will work otherwise the only hope is maybe a macro.
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post #9180 of 13279 Old 10-22-2014, 11:38 AM
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After much thought I'm going to return my x4000 and get the 4520ci.
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