"Official" Emotiva UMC-200 Thread - Page 30 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #871 of 918 Old 02-04-2017, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by afelcandy View Post
Hi, fellas !!!

I bought this unit in January 2015 and yesterday morning it got its processor or branched input/out corrupted, so any digital input (HDMI, SPDIF, TOSLINK, BLUETOOTH) I select the unit outputs annoying mixing of drop-outs and static radio noise, if you can understand this malfunction.

Curiously the feature named "stand-by HDMI AV pass-through" is working as nicely as the first day I powered it up.

Any way you know of I can reset its processor ?!?

Or it's just a case I got a lemon or a ticking bomb that would go off soon or later, and there's no remedy but sitting and crying over spilt milk ?!?

Please help me because I'm in dire despair after these issues arose yesterday morning and, making matters worse, I'm a foreign customer even though I bought my unit in the US.

Any hint or advice from you guys will gladly be considered.


Thanks a lot !!!!

Call Emo customer service,they're always helpful to me.

Sony HW40 ES, Oppo BDP-103, Gallo Classico CL-4/ Classico CL-C Center/ 2-CL-10 Subs/ Classico CL-2 surrounds, Emotiva UMC-200/ XPA-5/ XPA-3, Toshiba HD-A3. Roku X, Darbee Darblet, Silver Ticket 110" White Screen  "All rooms, speakers and ears are different, trust your own ears."
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post #872 of 918 Old 02-22-2017, 05:24 PM
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Thumbs up UMC 200 issues

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Originally Posted by Repdetect View Post
Call Emo customer service,they're always helpful to me.
Hi, Repdetect !!!

Sorry for taking too long to respond you...

I was working abroad and quite away from my house

Well, I did email EMO Customer and they said I should reset the unit (load default), a logical procedure I did hours after the issue arose but it was in vain

I ended given all the thing up altogether and was sad and beat

After a couple of days I powered the unit up again in a hopeless gesture and... SHAZAM !!!! It worked perfect as the first day I hooked it to my amp and still is working faultless

Any hint of what could have happened with my naughty boy ?!?

Thanks a lot for being so supportive

And my best regards from Brazil !!!!
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post #873 of 918 Old 03-12-2017, 04:27 PM
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Need help!!!

bought a gently used UMC-200 last month and all is fine with one major exception. How can i reset the initial Volume settings for the HDMI inputs???

Manual talks about Zone 2 & 3 settings, but not the HDMI settings; almost blew out my speakers switching HDMI inputs toggling between Optical input & HDMI input. Thankfully my Revel M16's didn't blow after the initial burst of sound when switching to Tidal music streaming on one of the HDMI inputs

Scared my wife and I half to death... thanks!!!
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post #874 of 918 Old 05-20-2017, 12:05 PM
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Umc 200 hdmi set up help!

Trying to connect hdmi inputs for source selection. Using hdmi inputs for cable box(hdmi 1), Apple TV(hdmi 2), and Roku(hdmi 3). Hdmi out from arc port to TV. Using Airmotiv 4 powered speakers connected to FR and FL output on UMC 200.
Problem is no sound output no matter which source is selected. Have TV set to External Speaker setting. Only way to hear sound is to use TV Internal Speaker setting, then all sources can be heard through TV, but not Airmotiv 4s. Even Bluetooth does not play through Airmotiv 4s. Prior to hooking up hdmi sources, Bluetooth worked fine through system, not now.
Any assistance is greatly appreciated and welcome. Reviewed manual online, no help. Even watched videos on setup, but they do not address any basics. Emotiva is closed until Monday.
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post #875 of 918 Old 05-20-2017, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by gjr. View Post
Trying to connect hdmi inputs for source selection. Using hdmi inputs for cable box(hdmi 1), Apple TV(hdmi 2), and Roku(hdmi 3). Hdmi out from arc port to TV. Using Airmotiv 4 powered speakers connected to FR and FL output on UMC 200.
Problem is no sound output no matter which source is selected. Have TV set to External Speaker setting. Only way to hear sound is to use TV Internal Speaker setting, then all sources can be heard through TV, but not Airmotiv 4s. Even Bluetooth does not play through Airmotiv 4s. Prior to hooking up hdmi sources, Bluetooth worked fine through system, not now.
Any assistance is greatly appreciated and welcome. Reviewed manual online, no help. Even watched videos on setup, but they do not address any basics. Emotiva is closed until Monday.
Update to previous post. UMC display shows "Direct No Audio" on all the source selections.
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post #876 of 918 Old 12-31-2017, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
^
The UMC-200 does 12/12 or 24/24, not the typical 12/24. I never really understood the reason for 12/24. Like you've said, important is the acoustical summing. I'd think starting with filters that sum electronically flat would be a better idea.

Anyway, such fundamental issues should be explained in the manual as they don't seem to be common knowledge (anymore?). Even most speaker setup routines don't address this properly. AVR makers seem to ignore it, so do room correction systems (although they know better, e.g. see various Audyssey papers from +10 years ago).
I know this is an old thread but the reason for 12/24 is because we want the overall sum of the filters to be flat, a 12db slope combined with an acoustic slope of a sealed speaker is one way to do that. Most of the time the 24/24 is going to be the best option since most speakers are ported these days but even some smaller ported speakers start rolling off early so it could still useful to use a 2nd order slope in those cases.

Now 12/12 is what makes no sense because either way we want a 4th order low pass on the sub so that it's not easily localized. I normally use the 4th order slope but I have used 2nd order and what I do in this case is add in the 2nd Butterworth 12 db low pass through my mini dsp to get the 4th order low pass on the sub. I know not everyone wants to buy a minidsp but 3 EQ channels on the sub isn't enough for most people to achieve a flat response in the sub anyway so I wanted some extra channels.
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post #877 of 918 Old 12-31-2017, 07:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by aarons915 View Post
I know this is an old thread but the reason for 12/24 is because we want the overall sum of the filters to be flat, a 12db slope combined with an acoustic slope of a sealed speaker is one way to do that. Most of the time the 24/24 is going to be the best option since most speakers are ported these days but even some smaller ported speakers start rolling off early so it could still useful to use a 2nd order slope in those cases.

Now 12/12 is what makes no sense because either way we want a 4th order low pass on the sub so that it's not easily localized. I normally use the 4th order slope but I have used 2nd order and what I do in this case is add in the 2nd Butterworth 12 db low pass through my mini dsp to get the 4th order low pass on the sub. I know not everyone wants to buy a minidsp but 3 EQ channels on the sub isn't enough for most people to achieve a flat response in the sub anyway so I wanted some extra channels.
Look at the actual in-room response of speakers and subs and the whole discussion becomes moot. The best filter topology is the one that results in a spatially flat sum within the listening area without making the sub localizable, without driving satellites into distortion and without adding audible group delay.

Markus

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post #878 of 918 Old 12-31-2017, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Look at the actual in-room response of speakers and subs and the whole discussion becomes moot. The best filter topology is the one that results in a spatially flat sum within the listening area without making the sub localizable, without driving satellites into distortion and without adding audible group delay.
Exactly, that was my point that the best filter depends on the in room response of your mains and sub/s. For bass light and/or sealed speakers a 12/24 is most likely going to be your best bet but if you have towers or big bookshelves a 24/24 is going to most likely be the best way to get a flat response. One of the main reasons I got the UMC 200 is because it's pretty much the only processor or receiver on the market that allows 4th order slopes, it really is a nightmare trying to achieve a flat sum with 2nd order slopes in most cases.
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post #879 of 918 Old 12-31-2017, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by aarons915 View Post
Exactly, that was my point that the best filter depends on the in room response of your mains and sub/s. For bass light and/or sealed speakers a 12/24 is most likely going to be your best bet but if you have towers or big bookshelves a 24/24 is going to most likely be the best way to get a flat response. One of the main reasons I got the UMC 200 is because it's pretty much the only processor or receiver on the market that allows 4th order slopes, it really is a nightmare trying to achieve a flat sum with 2nd order slopes in most cases.
Again, look at the actual in-room responses. You will have a hard time finding 12dB or 24dB slopes. Neither 12/24 nor 24/24 filters are "good" per se. It also depends on filter type. Only Linkwitz-Riley filters sum to flat for example...

P.S. The NAD T758V3 does 24dB L-R.

Markus

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post #880 of 918 Old 12-31-2017, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Again, look at the actual in-room responses. You will have a hard time finding 12dB or 24dB slopes. Neither 12/24 nor 24/24 filters are "good" per se. It also depends on filter type. Only Linkwitz-Riley filters sum to flat for example...

P.S. The NAD T758V3 does 24dB L-R.
I do look at the actual in-room response which is what put me on my search for a processor that could do 4th order slopes in the 1st place. With ported towers and a 2nd order high pass through my previous denon, there was always too much bass around 60- 80Hz due to the mains not being rolled off fast enough. The actual crossover point was usually a mess too, with either a bass hump or null. This is nothing new, it's why THX made the 12/24 slope standard, sealed mains with a -3 point of 80Hz was also specified so that it's acoustic 2nd order high pass summed with the 2nd order high pass on the receiver for a 4th order combined slope.

I still prefer 24/24 though because I don't want to limited to speakers with a rolloff that works with a 2nd order slope.

Good to know about the NAD, I wasn't aware of any receivers that allow 4th order slopes.
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post #881 of 918 Old 12-31-2017, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by aarons915 View Post
I do look at the actual in-room response which is what put me on my search for a processor that could do 4th order slopes in the 1st place. With ported towers and a 2nd order high pass through my previous denon, there was always too much bass around 60- 80Hz due to the mains not being rolled off fast enough. The actual crossover point was usually a mess too, with either a bass hump or null. This is nothing new, it's why THX made the 12/24 slope standard, sealed mains with a -3 point of 80Hz was also specified so that it's acoustic 2nd order high pass summed with the 2nd order high pass on the receiver for a 4th order combined slope.

I still prefer 24/24 though because I don't want to limited to speakers with a rolloff that works with a 2nd order slope.

Good to know about the NAD, I wasn't aware of any receivers that allow 4th order slopes.
The discussion is moot as there's no speaker that falls off anywhere close to 12 or 24dB when placed in a room. Furthermore you need to apply EQ at these frequencies or all you do is just choosing between bad and worse. Take a look at the MSO thread. Here's an additional discussion you might find interesting: https://mehlau.net/audio/dirac-live-avr-crossover/

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post #882 of 918 Old 12-31-2017, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
The discussion is moot as there's no speaker that falls off anywhere close to 12 or 24dB when placed in a room. Furthermore you need to apply EQ at these frequencies or all you do is just choosing between bad and worse. Take a look at the MSO thread. Here's an additional discussion you might find interesting: https://mehlau.net/audio/dirac-live-avr-crossover/
Hence the reason why we have a 24db slope, your speakers and sub need to be flat at and around the crossover in order for the 24/24 to be theoretically perfect but if so the crossover blends both seamlessly. And sealed speakers absolutely have an acoustic 2nd order high pass, the room may necessitate further EQ but if you have a sealed speaker with a -3db point at 80Hz and use a 4th order high pass on it, they will roll off way to fast to blend properly with the sub. EQ is necessary of course to achieve a flat in room response but it's always best to start off with 4th order slopes. I do agree with you though that this is all theoretical and real in-room responses are messy and need to be corrected to fit this ideal.

I use MSO by the way, I only have 2 subs but the program achieved a flat average response of +/- .75 db from 20-100Hz in my room, definitely the best bass I've ever experienced. I experimented with 80Hz LR4 slopes and 100Hz 2nd order slopes by the way to see what it would come up with as best, the 4th order was easily better, as it should be with ported mains. I attached my response.

I haven't read that thread, I'll check it out, thanks.
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post #883 of 918 Old 12-31-2017, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Not sure what the graph is supposed to show.

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post #884 of 918 Old 12-31-2017, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Not sure what the graph is supposed to show.
It shows frequency response vs SPL...it was just in response to your MSO comment...by the way your link said the same thing I've been saying:


Filters that work with Dirac Live need to sum to a flat response, e.g. 24dB/octave Linkwitz-Riley filters


I'm not really sure what exactly you're arguing but all I was originally saying to people with a UMC 200 is that if they want to use the 2nd order slope they can make it work by adding another 2nd order low pass via a Mini DSP, with some speakers(ie small or sealed) this could be better than the LR24 filters. In most cases it's best to use the LR24 filters but it's not the only way to achieve a 24db slope. If I'm saying anything factually wrong I am always willing to learn something new but this is pretty standard stuff.
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post #885 of 918 Old 01-29-2018, 03:02 PM
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Has anyone ever found the "EmoQ" to work well? I was thinking of trying it again, but the last time I did, a few years ago, it seemed to give very odd crossover points. Are there any tricks to it?

Home Theater: Emotiva UMC-200, Citation 5.1 running Mirage M-3SIs, Harman Kardon signature 2.1 running Mirage M-CSI (center) & 4x BIC V-52 (surrounds), Samson S1000 (545 watts x2) running 2 SVS CS-Ultra subs, PS3, PS4, XBOX 1, 2x Adcom ACE-515, Sony HW45ES projector w/ 125" tab tensioned screen or Vizio E-701B-3 - 70"
2.0 setup: Schiit Freya Tube Preamp, Citation 5.1, Mirage M3SIs, Onkyo DV-CP702 (CD transport), Schiit Modi Multibit DAC.
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post #886 of 918 Old 01-30-2018, 06:28 AM
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Has anyone ever found the "EmoQ" to work well? I was thinking of trying it again, but the last time I did, a few years ago, it seemed to give very odd crossover points. Are there any tricks to it?
The best trick is to skip it and use REW for the PEQ.

When I had my UMC, I ran EmoQ many times, repeatedly, and could never get the same/similar results twice. If you want to try it, run it, but then go back and manually correct the distances and levels.

Before I had a mic for REW, I ran the UMC flat and it sounded better than EmoQ.
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post #887 of 918 Old 01-30-2018, 11:34 AM
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The best trick is to skip it and use REW for the PEQ.

When I had my UMC, I ran EmoQ many times, repeatedly, and could never get the same/similar results twice. If you want to try it, run it, but then go back and manually correct the distances and levels.

Before I had a mic for REW, I ran the UMC flat and it sounded better than EmoQ.
I just ordered their recommended mic and DLed REW. I had looked into that before, but never got very far. It should be fun to use.

Thanks for reminding me about it.

Home Theater: Emotiva UMC-200, Citation 5.1 running Mirage M-3SIs, Harman Kardon signature 2.1 running Mirage M-CSI (center) & 4x BIC V-52 (surrounds), Samson S1000 (545 watts x2) running 2 SVS CS-Ultra subs, PS3, PS4, XBOX 1, 2x Adcom ACE-515, Sony HW45ES projector w/ 125" tab tensioned screen or Vizio E-701B-3 - 70"
2.0 setup: Schiit Freya Tube Preamp, Citation 5.1, Mirage M3SIs, Onkyo DV-CP702 (CD transport), Schiit Modi Multibit DAC.
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post #888 of 918 Old 09-16-2018, 08:31 PM
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Hi All,

Any reason for me to purchase a used UMC 200? I have a Pioneer SC-05, will DTSHDMA and Dolby True HD sound better via the UMC-200? And will video improve? Video should be the same right? as it is just passthrough?

I use an Oppo 103 via HDMI at present.

Thanks,
K.
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post #889 of 918 Old 09-17-2018, 04:21 PM
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Hi All,

Any reason for me to purchase a used UMC 200? I have a Pioneer SC-05, will DTSHDMA and Dolby True HD sound better via the UMC-200? And will video improve? Video should be the same right? as it is just passthrough?

I use an Oppo 103 via HDMI at present.

Thanks,
K.
You are right, video is pass through in the umc 200 which is what most folks want. They’d rather have the tv do all the heavy lifting with regards to processing.

As for audio, that’s where this unit shines compared to anything near its price point. The built in room eq with the supplied hockey puck mic is hit and miss for people. It’s the built in PEQ that makes this unit sound much better than its price suggests. I’m not aware of anything near the “at the time” sale price ($600) that has a fully adjustable PEQ, that is normally reserved for more expensive gear.

REW (room eq wizard) is a free program that is used to take measurements at your main seat with your own provided mic, it then gives individual speaker settings that you input into the unit, making it sound wonderful!

I have a mint condition UMC 200 that I can provide pics for if you’re interested. I am the only owner and it has been sitting in my closet since I got the XMC-1.
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post #890 of 918 Old 09-17-2018, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by k3nnis View Post
Hi All,

Any reason for me to purchase a used UMC 200? I have a Pioneer SC-05, will DTSHDMA and Dolby True HD sound better via the UMC-200? And will video improve? Video should be the same right? as it is just passthrough?

I use an Oppo 103 via HDMI at present.

Thanks,
K.
What is the price?
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post #891 of 918 Old 09-17-2018, 06:37 PM
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"Official" Emotiva UMC-200 Thread

Thanks guys. I’m in Australia and it equates to about US$350 used in good condition. Not sure if that’s good or bad?

How does the XMC-1 compare to the umc200 in terms of surround audio?


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post #892 of 918 Old 09-18-2018, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by k3nnis View Post
Thanks guys. I’m in Australia and it equates to about US$350 used in good condition. Not sure if that’s good or bad?

How does the XMC-1 compare to the umc200 in terms of surround audio?


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I would echo @Draden1 's thoughts on the UMC-200's sound quality. And, having been in his theater several times, I can attest to the care he treats his gear with.

I sold my UMC-200 a little over a year ago for a little over $400 USD, so I'd say that's a pretty fair price.

When I first connected my UMC-200, it was night and day over the AVR it replaced, even before running REW and setting the PEQ. If done right, which often takes some trial and error, the REW/PEQ adjustments can really make the UMC-200 sing. But you have to be up to the challenge. It's not Audyssey, you have to know a little about what you're doing, do some research, watch some videos, and dedicate some time to taking the measurements and inputting the data.

As for the XMC-1 in comparison, it was again a major improvement over the UMC-200, due to the XMC-1's utilization of Dirac room correction. Dirac is the best I've heard. Again, there is a slight learning curve (not as complex as REW, but even more flexibility), and you'll want to do several different measurements, try some different settings, room curves, etc., but I'm still shocked at how good the XMC-1 has made my room sound.

Had they never released the XMC-1, I'm sure I'd still be very satisfied with the UMC-200. The sound quality really was good. The XMC-1, with Dirac, is really just better. But it also comes with a higher price tag.

The one thing I would mention about the UMC-200, getting up there in age, keep in mind that it will not pass a 4K signal, and they have been prone to a random power supply failure (which some members of the Emotiva Lounge have replaced inexpensively without sending the unit to Tennessee, if you know how to solder). They do, however, have a 5 year transferrable warranty, so check the original purchase date on any unit you may be looking at, as it might even still have warranty remaining.
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post #893 of 918 Old 12-18-2018, 05:01 PM
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New 4K TV.

Just want owners to know, once I switched to a 4K TV, the 200 gets a NO SIGNAL, until I upgraded firmware from 47 to 52. At least now able to connect.

Still can't switch 4K sources of course, so meanwhile I have revert to my old trick, let TV switch video, 200 switch audio. Really down on the MC700 and not willing to fork out for a XMC1, will hold on to the 200 until a better option comes along.
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post #894 of 918 Old 12-27-2018, 01:12 AM
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Smile Latest firmware

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Originally Posted by MrBobb View Post
New 4K TV.

Just want owners to know, once I switched to a 4K TV, the 200 gets a NO SIGNAL, until I upgraded firmware from 47 to 52. At least now able to connect.

Still can't switch 4K sources of course, so meanwhile I have revert to my old trick, let TV switch video, 200 switch audio. Really down on the MC700 and not willing to fork out for a XMC1, will hold on to the 200 until a better option comes along.

Hi !!!

I'm stuck with 1080p and will be so for a long, long while.

Anyway I want turning my UMC-200 kind of "future-proof" when hooked to a 4K set even though its video capabilities will remain limited to 1080p signal switching.

So where did you get the latest firmware version that ironed out the "NO SIGNAL" issue of your unit ?

Any guidance you can give me will be greatly appreciated.

Happy holidays and my best regards from Brazil !!!
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post #895 of 918 Old 02-19-2019, 07:34 PM
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I'm having a problem with the "right back" preamp output of my UMC-200 not working at all. When I run the UMC-200 speaker level test, "left back" is fine, but "right back" is silent. When I reverse the RCA plugs as a test, the "left back" signal plays through the right speaker (as you would expect with reversed cables), but the "right back" test signal is still silent. So it looks like nothing is coming out of the UMC-200 "right back" preamp output. This is true both for test tones and actual content.

If anybody has experienced this or has any ideas how to correct this, I would really appreciate your advice.
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post #896 of 918 Old 02-23-2019, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjp View Post
I'm having a problem with the "right back" preamp output of my UMC-200 not working at all. When I run the UMC-200 speaker level test, "left back" is fine, but "right back" is silent. When I reverse the RCA plugs as a test, the "left back" signal plays through the right speaker (as you would expect with reversed cables), but the "right back" test signal is still silent. So it looks like nothing is coming out of the UMC-200 "right back" preamp output. This is true both for test tones and actual content.

If anybody has experienced this or has any ideas how to correct this, I would really appreciate your advice.
Quoting myself -- the problem was operator error. I had the rear back amp channel plugged into sub out. I love, love, love the UMC-200, but the RCA output layout and labeling are horrendous in my opinion.

(Caution: rant approaching ->) The fact that left right surrounds outputs are split to the left/right flank means you have to split the cable pair to make them fit. The labels for all of those RCA outputs are under the RCA plugs, which means you absolutely cannot read any labels when you have RCA's plugged in. The owners manual is no help -- the picture of the back panel in the owners manual is unlabelled, so you can't see the layout there either. (end rant) I printed out a blow-up of the back panel inputs from the manual and hand-labeled it with a pen.

Quirkiness aside, I still really love the UMC-200.
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post #897 of 918 Old 03-22-2019, 10:00 PM
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i am hoping someone here can help me with some odd behavior i have with an Apple TV 4k and Emotiva UMC-200.

up until recently, because the UMC-200 doesn't support 4k pass thru, i had been sending both audio and video via HDMI from the ATV4k to my Sony 900e TV, and then using an optical cable to deliver the audio to my UMC-200. this, however, was a compromised solution since i could only set the output of the ATV4k to DolbyDigital5.1 rather than "best" which is multichannel PCM.

i finally bit the bullet due to a sale at Monoprice and picked up the HD Fury AVRkey to split the video and audio output of the ATV4k so i could send the audio directly to my Emotiva, and the 4K HDR video to my Sony.

at first blush, everything seemed to be working fine, and the sound quality was definitely a step up from the prior configuration. however, upon closer inspection, i saw that the UMC-200 was indicating on certain movies that i was receiving 7.1 channel LPCM (L R C Ls Rs Lrs Rrs) yet there is no sound coming from the rear speakers (Lrs Rrs). the speakers test out fine using the test tones on the UMC-200 and work fine using my Oppo 83 Bluray player on discs with 7.1 channels of info.

any suggestions? i tried troubleshooting by feeding the ATV4k signal directly to the Emotiva, but i have had zero luck even after setting the output video to 1080p 60hz (i get a weird pink screen for the video)

thanks in advance for any suggestions or experiences.
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post #898 of 918 Old 03-23-2019, 09:33 AM
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I believe this is an AppleTV thing where it is sending 5.1 audio in a 7.1 wrapper, thus sending empty rear channels and negating the ability to prologic them.


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post #899 of 918 Old 03-23-2019, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillcat View Post
I believe this is an AppleTV thing where it is sending 5.1 audio in a 7.1 wrapper, thus sending empty rear channels and negating the ability to prologic them.


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Thank you for this insight. I wonder if there is a database somewhere which shows which movies on iTunes have 7.1 info.


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post #900 of 918 Old 03-23-2019, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afelcandy View Post
Anyway I want turning my UMC-200 kind of "future-proof" when hooked to a 4K set even though its video capabilities will remain limited to 1080p signal switching.
Wha are u talking about, the 200 is at its end-life, there is no more update to it. The only thing u can do is to keep using its audio section, that's about it.

Quote:
So where did you get the latest firmware version that ironed out the "NO SIGNAL" issue of your unit ?
From Emotiva, where else? There is an emotive official forum, find it there. The "latest firmware" is 2 years old. I just delayed the update until I had no other option.
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