Spec Understanding -- Denon E300 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 8 Old 12-11-2013, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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I did do some searches but may not know how to put it into proper terms.

Receiver: Denon E300
Front+Surrounds (4): Pioneer SP-BS22-LR (80 Watt Power Handling)
Center: Pioneer SP-C22 (90 Watt Power Handling) (Irrelevant Question - Though not designed as fronts, why is wattage higher on center than BS22s?)
Sub-Irrelevant for discussion purposes (+don't recall the model)


The Pioneer's are all 6Ω and do not indicate if the rating is RMS or Peak, I assume the numbers are Peak which mean nothing to me. (RMS would obviously be more useful)


I am not understanding what this set up specs on the Denon means, the underlined is whats confusing me:

Power Output Per Channel(20Hz-20kHz, 0.08%[email protected])75 Watts
Power Output Per Channel(1kHz, 0.7%[email protected])120 Watts
Maximum Power Output Per Channel175 Watts

Reason I ask:
Am I outputting 75watts or 120?


Reason I ask the above:
I know it is an entry level AMP but is it over-driving the speakers?
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post #2 of 8 Old 12-11-2013, 11:52 AM
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First off you aren't overdriving your speakers if there is no distortion present.
The Pioneer speaker power ratings are most likely rated at continuous power.

Power Output Per Channel(20Hz-20kHz, 0.08%[email protected])75 Watts
Power Output Per Channel(1kHz, 0.7%[email protected])120 Watts
Maximum Power Output Per Channel175 Watts


The 20-20kHz figure is the better one to use since it uses a full spectrum signal generator. That power spec is usually 'two channels driven'. The other one is always suspect IMO. What it means is the AVR was able to generate 120w with a 1 kilo hertz signal. Something that I've never listened to for long - very boring - a mono tone. The 20-20kHz signal would sound like white noise.

Reason I ask:
Am I outputting 75watts or 120?


Neither when driving 5 speakers. In stereo - which is how Denon arrived at that number - 75wpc. With a 5 speaker compliment connected up to the Denon you'll be lucky to get 30-40wpc all channels driven. Thats simply the 'facts of life' when it comes to AVRs and multi-channel audio. I have a TOTL Yamaha receiver that brags of 140wpc. In real life I might get 60wpc if I were to drive all 7 speakers. Total power consumption of the E300 is 360w. Some of that goes to powering the audio and video processors. Heat loss is also a factor - heat does not generate power to the speakers.

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post #3 of 8 Old 12-11-2013, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knucklehead90 View Post

First off you aren't overdriving your speakers if there is no distortion present.
The Pioneer speaker power ratings are most likely rated at continuous power.

Power Output Per Channel(20Hz-20kHz, 0.08%[email protected])75 Watts
Power Output Per Channel(1kHz, 0.7%[email protected])120 Watts
Maximum Power Output Per Channel175 Watts


The 20-20kHz figure is the better one to use since it uses a full spectrum signal generator. That power spec is usually 'two channels driven'. The other one is always suspect IMO. What it means is the AVR was able to generate 120w with a 1 kilo hertz signal. Something that I've never listened to for long - very boring - a mono tone. The 20-20kHz signal would sound like white noise.

Reason I ask:
Am I outputting 75watts or 120?


Neither when driving 5 speakers. In stereo - which is how Denon arrived at that number - 75wpc. With a 5 speaker compliment connected up to the Denon you'll be lucky to get 30-40wpc all channels driven. Thats simply the 'facts of life' when it comes to AVRs and multi-channel audio. I have a TOTL Yamaha receiver that brags of 140wpc. In real life I might get 60wpc if I were to drive all 7 speakers. Total power consumption of the E300 is 360w. Some of that goes to powering the audio and video processors. Heat loss is also a factor - heat does not generate power to the speakers.

For the 20-20 spec, I do not have any options anywhere to select what ohm the speakers are. I believe that is handled by Audyssey because I did not see that in the menu anywhere.

To clarify, where did you get 360w from? Denon states that it is a 875w receiver ("all-discrete power amplifier output stage design. Rated at a maximum of 175 watts for each of the 5 channels")? Not saying you're wrong, but want to make sure I didn't miss-communicate the specs. I just can't comprehend how it can go all the way down to 30-40w from the 75w (or even why it is only 75 from the 175 [which I do understand is a peak value and not a constant] )
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post #4 of 8 Old 12-11-2013, 03:39 PM
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Audyssey does not set anything pertaining to speaker resistance and does not measure that. If you had that option all it would do is cut power to the amp section to prevent overheating of the AVR.

Some AVR's are rated for 4ohm speakers but the A300 does not mention whether the A300 can drive 4ohm speakers. I use a Denon 1713 (very equivalent to your A300) in my bedroom stereo setup with a pair of 4ohm rated bookshelf speakers and a sub - it does just fine. I don't advocate 4ohm speakers with your AVR - or mine. I play the music very low and the Denon is quite happy.

As to the total power consumption take a look at the owners manual, this is a quote from that manual (pg 128):

General:

Power supply: AC 120 V, 60 Hz
Power consumption: 360 W
Power consumption in standby mode: 0.1 W
Power consumption in CEC standby
mode: 0.5 W
Power consumption in network
standby mode: 2.7 W

Denon does what every other AVR manufacturer does - they take the 175w (one channel driven into clipping!) and times it by the number of amp channels (five in your case) and VIOLA! they have a real powerhouse 875w AVR. 175x5=875. Deceitful? Maybe - but 'the other guys are doing it too' is what they'll tell you when you understand what they are doing.

Amplifier power and SPL (sound pressure levels) are a logarithmic function. Your speakers might play at 90db at 1 watt at one meter distance (2.83v). To get 93db from them takes a doubling of power - same for distance - move back one meter and you'll need to double the power for the same SPL at the new distance. Doesn't take much power to get to 102db (very loud). So at 93db we have 2w - at 96db you need 4w - at 99db 8w - 102w takes 16w. Doubling the power nets you another 3db. If you listen at reference levels (85db) you shouldn't have any problems. If you want to play it louder you might experience thermal shutdown.
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post #5 of 8 Old 12-11-2013, 07:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the detailed response and taking the time to do so. Please bare with me as I am still relatively new to this. So at 85db, does distance play a factor? The rears are roughly 25 feet away from the receiver.
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post #6 of 8 Old 12-11-2013, 10:54 PM
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After running Audyssey you may find the volume scale is slightly different at the levels you normally listen at. Thats because it has calibrated itself for your listening area - distance - and adjusts the frequency output to match room interactions which are caused from sound being absorbed or reflected. If you crank the volume up to -85db the average sound will be -85db wherever you sat the microphone during Audyssey setup. Speaker distances should only matter for how far you are from them. That is what the microphone measures.

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post #7 of 8 Old 12-12-2013, 06:46 AM - Thread Starter
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^ Audyssey does compensate the sound at all 6 points with the microphone, but I mean in terms of wattage/burning anything up in regards to what you said above (power to distance).

Side note which wasn't answered in my other thread, I know putting speakers in a shelf is not ideal, but what if I cut the back out completely? Would that help you think?

https://www.avsforum.com/content/type/61/id/328888/width/350/height/700
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post #8 of 8 Old 12-12-2013, 02:57 PM
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Depending on the speakers you use they may work without modification - which I don't condone. Get a speaker that is a sealed design or if ported have them on the speaker face. Rear ported speakers sound horrible when stuck in a bookcase like that. A sealed speaker is not ideal in that environment but is way better than a rear ported speaker. You can 'stuff a sock' in the port of rear ported speakers if thats what you have. What you lose is low bass response but you pick up clarity in the bass. And if you have a sub then you really lose nothing.

As for what Audyssey does there is an excellent thread at the top of this forum called the 'Official Audyssey' something or other. I don't want to get into a long drawn out discussion of what it does when there is more - and more informed - information than what I can provide. Audyssey makes the first position you use the most important - it records distance and room interactions with the speakers. The rest of the microphone placement 'tunes' the AVR's response to room interactions but it weighs the primary (first mic position) more heavily than the other 5 points.

Yamaha A-S1000 - Salk Song Towers - HTPC (Linux) - Oppo 103 - Marantz TT42 (WWG1WGA) --- Twas a woman who drove me to drink. I never had the decency to write and thank her ~ WC Fields
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Denon Avr E300 , Pioneer Andrew Jones Designed Bookshelf Loudspeakers Sp Bs22 Lr , Pioneer Andrew Jones Sp C22 Center Channel Speaker

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