A warning for anyone considering Emotiva products - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 47 Old 03-14-2017, 06:36 PM
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Unfortunately the weakest component from Emotiva, is customer service. I've complained before they need to be more transparent when there is an issue, and take care of business. Maybe I am strange in some way, but one criteria I always stand behind is how a company handles problems. Nothing is perfect, but some companies I found more favorable because of the way they deal with mishaps. Nothing is perfect, but honesty is just as important on a bad day as a good one, maybe even more so.

Charging your card prematurely because a shipment was unexpectedly delayed, is one thing, but being silent about it creates more discontent than admitting you screwed up. They did that to me recently (and still waiting for an MC-700) and others also. We may end up canceling. They should not be burning through consumer money or getting interest on it before the customer has their goods. Maybe their 'attitude' is more reflective of a bigger problem like a financial one.

Hardware-wise I've had minor issues, most I could fix myself, like a cold solder joint on an XPA-5 still under warranty, by the way. i bought that amp used when it was 2 years old. It just reached 7 years and celebrated last month by going out on me.

Anyway folks have certainly had it worse than me and that is bad. Fortunately there are alternatives, excellent ones at that.

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post #32 of 47 Old 03-16-2017, 05:38 AM
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I recently posted about trouble with a Gen 3 seven channel amp. It would go into protect mode immediately after turning on. Only way to use it was to unplug it. Then it would work. If I left it on it was fine. But who does that?

I contacted them. Over the phone we did some troubleshooting, disconnecting everything. It still did it. I shipped it back at my expense.

They said it would take 16-20 days to repair. After two days they emailed and said NPF, No problem found, and were shipping it back. I immediately emailed and called and calmly and nicely warned them that I'd send it right back, this time at their expense. Luckily, I had videotaped it (digitally recorded) with my iPhone and so had proof of it going into protect mode. After about a week or so they decided to replace it with a brand new unit which is working fine. It's a powerful amp and sounds great. I wouldn't hesitate to do business with them again.
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post #33 of 47 Old 03-17-2017, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videoaddikt View Post
Unfortunately the weakest component from Emotiva, is customer service. I've complained before they need to be more transparent when there is an issue, and take care of business. Maybe I am strange in some way, but one criteria I always stand behind is how a company handles problems. Nothing is perfect, but some companies I found more favorable because of the way they deal with mishaps. Nothing is perfect, but honesty is just as important on a bad day as a good one, maybe even more so.

Charging your card prematurely because a shipment was unexpectedly delayed, is one thing, but being silent about it creates more discontent than admitting you screwed up. They did that to me recently (and still waiting for an MC-700) and others also. We may end up canceling. They should not be burning through consumer money or getting interest on it before the customer has their goods. Maybe their 'attitude' is more reflective of a bigger problem like a financial one.

Hardware-wise I've had minor issues, most I could fix myself, like a cold solder joint on an XPA-5 still under warranty, by the way. i bought that amp used when it was 2 years old. It just reached 7 years and celebrated last month by going out on me.

Anyway folks have certainly had it worse than me and that is bad. Fortunately there are alternatives, excellent ones at that.
I am curious as to what an excellent alternative is to the MC-700? I ask because I am looking for a processor in this price point and it seems to be either spend a bit more for an Outlaw of use an AVR with pre-outs.

I have no problem with them charging my credit card before shipment if the shipment is a few months out as long as I know that up front and I don't forgo my ability to get my money back if the product does not ship based on their committed ship date.

Would you feel better if they used Kickstarter or some other crowdfunding mechanism instead for something like this?

Margins on electronics are razor thin these days. It's not an excuse for poor customer service but thin margins are not an easy problem to solve without simply going out of business or committing suicide which happened unfortunately in one case.

Last edited by akadoublej; 03-17-2017 at 05:41 PM.
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post #34 of 47 Old 03-18-2017, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akadoublej View Post
I am curious as to what an excellent alternative is to the MC-700? I ask because I am looking for a processor in this price point and it seems to be either spend a bit more for an Outlaw of use an AVR with pre-outs.

I have no problem with them charging my credit card before shipment if the shipment is a few months out as long as I know that up front and I don't forgo my ability to get my money back if the product does not ship based on their committed ship date.

Would you feel better if they used Kickstarter or some other crowdfunding mechanism instead for something like this?

Margins on electronics are razor thin these days. It's not an excuse for poor customer service but thin margins are not an easy problem to solve without simply going out of business or committing suicide which happened unfortunately in one case.
I probably overstated the fact about 'equivalents'. There are of course some fine used processors that are being sold for similar prices. But not a whole lot of those.

I have no problem having my card charged either as long as it is in accord with a company policy. Having signed up on a waiting list I would not expect it to be charged before my unit is actually shipping.


Participation in Kickstarters is a totally different experience. But typically, they have clear explanations of how their process works, and you can make a clear decision if this if what you want to work with.

My criticism of how poorly I think of Emotiva's customer service is not meant to be a reflection on their engineering prowess in design or performance. Quite the contrary.

They do spend a fair amount of time on their discussion forum answering queries and helping resolve issues from time to time. And for that I give them their due, and then some.

But good intentions are not the same as effective policies and practices in handling customer issues arising from direct sales. It is an area that begs for improvement but should also be a caveat for new customers who might have certain expectations based on prior experiences with other companies.

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post #35 of 47 Old 03-18-2017, 06:57 PM
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I bought some expensive gear from them about 10 years ago and now they've lost record of my purchase and refuse to honor the 40% upgrade for life discount they originally sold the gear under.

I haven't had a problem with their gear, but this is the second time they've refused to honor a claim they've made to me so I won't be buying anything from them anymore, either.
Emotiva have never had a 40% off for life program. They did issue a 40% off card - good for one transaction on future processors. There is a 25% off for life program. IIRC that was implemented shortly after they brought the XMC-1 to market. The 'catch' with this is number that the 25% off is calculated from - MSRP. The current price of the XMC-1 is $1995 but MSRP is $2499 and that number likely will not change. That makes it $1874.25 for any 25% off for life holder. You can buy the XMC-1 for $1200-1400 used.

I am a 25% off for life holder after buying a UMC-200. I doubt I'll ever use it unless something so spectacularly great comes to market that I gotta have it. I doubt that will happen. Tell the fan-boys on the Lounge this info and you'll get flamed but it doesn't change the numbers. Dan & Co knew what they were doing & probably decided they were not making enough profit off each 25% or 40% off transaction - so now they simply manipulate the numbers - jacking the MSRP price of new processors so they don't lose as much profit on a 25% or 40% off transaction.

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post #36 of 47 Old 03-18-2017, 07:09 PM
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Yes, they did give us original customers 40% discounts on a future purchase and there was no time limit on it you just haven't been a customer long enough to know that. You're welcome to check reviews on the DMC-1/MPS-1 as they will mention the 40% off uptrade plan. It was eventually converted to a one-time use discount card, which can be found for sale 2nd hand now and then that program was changed into the limited time offer 25% for life plan you know of now. But before any of that, the 40% off uptrade program was simply the way their business model worked without any cards or limitations of how many processors one bought so long as that person was the original owner.

Here is Audioholics announcing the program in early 2007:
http://www.audioholics.com/news/emot...current-owners
Quote:
All original Emotiva Processor owners will be eligible for a 40% discount on the purchase price of their new A/V processor.

Emotiva UltraNot a Trade-Up Program - Keep Your Existing Gear

It's important to note that Emotiva is not offering a "trade-up" program. Existing owners get to KEEP their current gear! There will be no time limit on this offer to upgrade. Customers just need to be the original owner of an LMC-1, MMC-1 or DMC-1 to qualify.
Here are various threads referencing the 40% discount:
http://www.martinloganowners.com/for...ll=1#post67421
Quote:
Emotiva has a *very* interesting business model. While we are all used to the internet "flattening out" distribution systems, we are not really used to seeing it in the audiophile "space". Their "direct to user" disintermediation business model should give them some interesting "scale" potential at the expense of brick and mortar dealer networks.

Let's see:

30 days *free* in-home trial
40% upgrade discount for current owners


While we are used to seeing free in-home trials from many manufacturers, the 40% discount plan is something I have not seen before. Apparently, it is *not* a trade-in program, you get to keep your current equipment. They simply deduct 40% from the purchase price of the new item if you are a current user. With processor technology moving at such lightning speed, this is a cost-effective way of "keeping up".
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...l#post11489933
Quote:
The Emotiva DMR-1 is actually a DMC-1 with a built in amp. minus the balanced inputs. It is 125.7watts. I was going to try it out as a receiver and also as a preamp with a B&K 125.7 ser 2 . Emotiva has a program where you get 40% off of a new preamp if you ever upgrade. You also get to keep the DMR-1.
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads...#post-23643171
Quote:
Plus their trade up program seems very tempting to me as well. 40% off and you can keep the existing equipment . When the -2 versions come out I will surely be ready for an upgrade then.
Those threads were written back in 2007/2008. It was just their standard uptrade program back then.

Finally, here is a moderator on the Emotiva forums correcting someone who believed, like you, that the 40% off program as I described it didn't exist:
http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/832697/thread
Quote:
petew said: IIRC, the 40% off cards and "upgrade for life" didn't start until the UMC-1 issues cropped up, for purchasers of that processor only. Ended when the last of the UMC-200's were shipped.


While the 40% cards were started in the UMC-1 era and the UFL after that until the XMC-1, the DMC-1/MMC-1/LMC-1/DMR-1 were also a part of the 40% off your next processor deal. I bought an LMC-1 from Emotiva right after their move to Franklin, TN, which qualified me for 40% off a next generation processor and also got me UFL status.

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post #37 of 47 Old 04-05-2017, 12:22 PM
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I am not fan-boy for Emotiva any more than a dozen other brands I have used in my home. I do think Emotiva does produce some quality components that provide very good performance for the price-point.

No question there are likely some short cuts when compared with brands selling for 2 or 3X the price. I guess one would need to examine those in some detail as to their significance.

What I am curious about, is how much better are the more expensive products that folks are required to ante up to afford?

I've seen little discussion on any forum or blog about how much better are the 'best' and while you can pick out detailed specifications, but it seems translating those to how much better they sound, or process signals would be more of challenge beyond 'theory'. It seems a more balanced assessment is needed.

I think Emo and perhaps Outlaw are tickling the lower end of how cheap you can provide quality and performance on the cheap. OTOH if enough buyers have sufficient financial resources they may not care that much if one amp cost $2000 or $2500, and it seems those components are rarely examined as to their true value.

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post #38 of 47 Old 05-09-2017, 10:04 PM
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How are you liking your MC-700 and A-500, I just purchased them myself a few days ago.


Quote:
Originally Posted by videoaddikt View Post
Unfortunately the weakest component from Emotiva, is customer service. I've complained before they need to be more transparent when there is an issue, and take care of business. Maybe I am strange in some way, but one criteria I always stand behind is how a company handles problems. Nothing is perfect, but some companies I found more favorable because of the way they deal with mishaps. Nothing is perfect, but honesty is just as important on a bad day as a good one, maybe even more so.

Charging your card prematurely because a shipment was unexpectedly delayed, is one thing, but being silent about it creates more discontent than admitting you screwed up. They did that to me recently (and still waiting for an MC-700) and others also. We may end up canceling. They should not be burning through consumer money or getting interest on it before the customer has their goods. Maybe their 'attitude' is more reflective of a bigger problem like a financial one.

Hardware-wise I've had minor issues, most I could fix myself, like a cold solder joint on an XPA-5 still under warranty, by the way. i bought that amp used when it was 2 years old. It just reached 7 years and celebrated last month by going out on me.

Anyway folks have certainly had it worse than me and that is bad. Fortunately there are alternatives, excellent ones at that.
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post #39 of 47 Old 05-10-2017, 01:38 PM
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Unfortunately I must agree with the OP. I cancelled my order today after waiting a week for at least a confirmation. There was nothing, no indication that it was process, ready to ship, delayed, etc. BUT, they did take $1300 off of me right as soon as I clicked "order."

There's no excuse for that. They did seem quite happy to cancel my order, strange business practices indeed.
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post #40 of 47 Old 05-10-2017, 07:30 PM
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How are you liking your MC-700 and A-500, I just purchased them myself a few days ago.
I like it very much, performance wise. It is a very worthy successor to the UMC-200. Problem now, is some of us are having difficulty doing firmware upgrades as some units are very picky about the USB drive that is used to upload the latest change.

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post #41 of 47 Old 05-26-2017, 01:28 PM
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Lemme tell you about my Emotiva experience

I own a first gen XPA5, purchased in 2011 - well out of warranty. After years of absolutely glorious, trouble-free service, my amp started going into protect mode non-stop. I would switch inputs on my pre-pro & my amp would trip, whether or not there was a signal. I would turn on my second Emotiva amp & that would cause my XPA5 would trip. A change audio signal (for example, on TV broadcast, from surround sound to stereo) - the amp would trip! TRIPPITY TRIP TRIP! Pretty sure at this point all I had to do was look at the amp & it would trip.

So I don't look like I am pointing a finger at Emotiva's quality here - there is a chance this issue was caused by a power surge we had in my area back in Feb this year during a major windstorm. Even though it was plugged into a line conditioner/surge protector, this surge repeated in rapid succession & sent my entire system into a frenzy, even blowing up my DefTech sub. My UPA2 is sitting on the shelf, doing its job, sounding & looking great.

So I send the XPA5 in for service. Emotiva could not duplicate the problem, but just in case, I asked them to replace the channel that was tripping (5) and that was $375. I get the amp back, hooked it up and - TRIP!!

After HOURS of swapping interconnects, speakers/cables, equipment in every conceivable combination, I wrote Emotiva to tell them it's still tripping.

Had they said "your amp is well out of warranty, we can't duplicate the issue, nothing we can do" I actually would have been AOK with that. Can't expect Emotiva to warrant a product forever. It would have been a disappointing outcome, but I would have understood their position.

So what did Emotiva do?

I get an email from their VP telling me they wanted to help & to send my amp back - on them. A few weeks later, I get an email from them advising that again, they could not duplicate the problem I am having, but..................

They're sending me a factory refurbished & fully tested XPA5! They're picking up the shipping, too, $85 to CT. They also didn't charge me the diagnostic fee for out of warranty service.

I was blown away. THAT is going above & beyond, folks. I know it's a totally different experience than the OP - but I thought y'all, and anyone else who reads this post, should be as aware of very positive customer service experience.

Regardless of the replacement of my amp, I found Emotiva to be responsive and most importantly, very willing to try to help a customer. I've never experienced this level of service, interest & attention - and most definitely, not this kind of outcome on an out of warranty product. You gotta admit - that is absolutely not necessary on their part.

I'm not questioning or begrudging the OP his experience - just adding another perspective. I think that's fair to Emotiva in a thread with that dire title.

I couldn't be more satisfied & confident that I made the right decision on Emotiva those 7-8 years ago (as nervous as I was about spending that kind of money on an internet-direct product).

I know exactly where I am going when it's time to upgrade my amps & Onkyo pre-pro. Emotiva has earned my business and my respect. I would not hesitate to recommend them, especially now.


UPDATE: Received the refurb'd XPA5 today (5/31) and immediately hooked it up. I tried to make the amp trip doing the same things that made my original amp trip:


- switched input sources
- switched signal (DD, DTS, etc...)
- turned on/off, off/on my source components, and
- turned on/off, off/on the UPA2.


The replacement amp doesn't trip! I am ecstatic.


There's no expectation that these tests weren't sufficient as any one of them ALWAYS made my original amp trip. But, I will watch some movies tonight, running signals to the amps & see what happens. You don't see another post from me, all is Ok.
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Marantz AV7705 | Oppo UDP 205 | Emotiva UPA2 | Emotiva XPA5 Gen 1 | Music Hall MMF 2.2 | APC AVHS15 | Dual SVS SB2000 | Paradigm Reference Studio 100 v2 | Studio CC v2 | Monitor AVP 390 v6 | Monitor ADP 370 | Vizio PQX 65"

Last edited by MashCT; 05-31-2017 at 12:09 PM. Reason: UPDATE
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post #42 of 47 Old 05-26-2017, 02:08 PM
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I had some flaky protection mode stuff like that going on a few years ago and it was a bad cable. FYI.

Thanks very much for posting your positive experience! SO often we only post the negative...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #43 of 47 Old 05-31-2017, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
I had some flaky protection mode stuff like that going on a few years ago and it was a bad cable. FYI.

Thanks very much for posting your positive experience! SO often we only post the negative...


Do you mean power cable (cord) or RCA interconnect?

If interconnect - I have 3 sets of RCA's at home, and bought brand new sets, too. Swapped them all out, and tried them all with the amp - connected to the Onkyo, the Marantz & the source components directly - still tripped. Even with the new Marantz. Believe me, I tested every which way from Sunday.


I have heard a bad power cord can cause this too, so if the replacement amp still trips, well... new power cord is next.


Hoping the new refurb'd amp has no issues. Fingers crossed!

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Interconnect. Plug pulled loose by kids hooking up their game system.

There was some issue with Marantz (I think) a few years ago, I think related to a power-on surge, that tripped protection on several amplifiers (not just Emotiva). If the thing driving the amp has a bad output stage, e.g. excessive DC on it, that would also trip protection on the amp. I had that happen some while back, when a preamp took out my power amp.

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post #45 of 47 Old 05-31-2017, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MashCT View Post
I own a first gen XPA5, purchased in 2011 - well out of warranty. After years of absolutely glorious, trouble-free service, my amp started going into protect mode non-stop. I would switch inputs on my pre-pro & my amp would trip, whether or not there was a signal. I would turn on my second Emotiva amp & that would cause my XPA5 would trip. A change audio signal (for example, on TV broadcast, from surround sound to stereo) - the amp would trip! TRIPPITY TRIP TRIP! Pretty sure at this point all I had to do was look at the amp & it would trip.

So I don't look like I am pointing a finger at Emotiva's quality here - there is a chance this issue was caused by a power surge we had in my area back in Feb this year during a major windstorm. Even though it was plugged into a line conditioner/surge protector, this surge repeated in rapid succession & sent my entire system into a frenzy, even blowing up my DefTech sub. My UPA2 is sitting on the shelf, doing its job, sounding & looking great.

So I send the XPA5 in for service. Emotiva could not duplicate the problem, but just in case, I asked them to replace the channel that was tripping (5) and that was $375. I get the amp back, hooked it up and - TRIP!!

After HOURS of swapping interconnects, speakers/cables, equipment in every conceivable combination, I wrote Emotiva to tell them it's still tripping.

Had they said "your amp is well out of warranty, we can't duplicate the issue, nothing we can do" I actually would have been AOK with that. Can't expect Emotiva to warrant a product forever. It would have been a disappointing outcome, but I would have understood their position.

So what did Emotiva do?

I get an email from their VP telling me they wanted to help & to send my amp back - on them. A few weeks later, I get an email from them advising that again, they could not duplicate the problem I am having, but..................

They're sending me a factory refurbished & fully tested XPA5! They're picking up the shipping, too, $85 to CT. They also didn't charge me the diagnostic fee for out of warranty service.

I was blown away. THAT is going above & beyond, folks. I know it's a totally different experience than the OP - but I thought y'all, and anyone else who reads this post, should be as aware of very positive customer service experience.

Regardless of the replacement of my amp, I found Emotiva to be responsive and most importantly, very willing to try to help a customer. I've never experienced this level of service, interest & attention - and most definitely, not this kind of outcome on an out of warranty product. You gotta admit - that is absolutely not necessary on their part.

I'm not questioning or begrudging the OP his experience - just adding another perspective. I think that's fair to Emotiva in a thread with that dire title.

I couldn't be more satisfied & confident that I made the right decision on Emotiva those 7-8 years ago (as nervous as I was about spending that kind of money on an internet-direct product).

I know exactly where I am going when it's time to upgrade my amps & Onkyo pre-pro. Emotiva has earned my business and my respect. I would not hesitate to recommend them, especially now.
+1

First gen XPA-5 here. I actually purchased it way back at the first ever "Emofest" when Dan agreed to let people purchase the B stock stuff.

I've had a single issue since way back then where mine was going into protect mode (never was entirely sure it was even the amp's fault) but paid to ship it there, they fixed it up, and shipped it back.

Beyond that, mine has been bullet proof. It honestly seems like it'll last 20 years, but if it doesn't, i'll go right back to Emotiva for another one. Nothing but great experiences with my product and their team, all the way up to Dan, who was the nicest guy you'd ever want to meet when I met him back then.

Agree on above, people often post only negative experiences so I figured I'd chime in.
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post #46 of 47 Old 09-02-2017, 11:40 AM
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September 2017 UPDATE!

Hello folks! Just want to give you an update on the replacement amp Emotiva sent me to replace my well-out-of-warranty, tripping-the-light-fandango XPA-5.

I am happy to report that the refurb'd amp has performed 100% trouble free!!

So my original amp did have a problem, wasn't my power cord, wasn't my RCA interconnects, wasn't any of my other A/V equipment.

I really am just blow away by what Emotiva did to remedy this situation - they were not the least bit obligated, especially to do it at no charge to me (except for the $375 for the first repair attempt).


I am one happy customer.

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post #47 of 47 Old 09-02-2017, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshoppers View Post
Thanks for posting this info. Been reading a lot of issues like you have described.
I find it very 'sorry' about their practice of "sanitizing" their own forums.

If I may suggest you look into Outlaw Audio's line of amps.
Great products and reasonably priced. Great customer service too.


I have a pair of their mono- block amps powering my mains.

+1
I can attest to there Customer Service, as Outstanding


Presently own a model 7700, 5000 and two 2000.
Also use to own the very first amp they had, the 750, I believe.
Never had a problem with any of them.
All were built by ATI for Outlaw, other than the 5000 model, design in the USA, but built in China to offer such a great product for the price. A practice done now a day by many manufacture of Audio Equipment's and Speakers.
Just like my Aperion Speakers, and the Craftsmanship is Excellent.


Ray
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Emotiva Xpa 3 Amplifier , Emotiva Umc 200 7 1 Home Theater Preamp Surround Processor



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