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post #1 of 20 Old 01-29-2014, 11:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I am upgrading from just using computer speakers on my television and am hoping to get a more powerful setup. I am new to this effort, so I'm sorry for the basic question, but I have searched and tried to be diligent but have found conflicting answers.

I have purchased the Pioneer sp-BS22-lr speakers because they fit my budget and were highly recommended. I have an old Kenwood 104ar stereo I got from a relative, but I am worried that, at 100wpc minimum rms, the receiver is too powerful for the 80w total power of the pioneers.

I have read many opinions that overpowering is not a big deal, but others say it can damage the speakers. I also can't figure out how much overpower I am. Is the max 80w of the Pioneers per speaker or both together (so 40w per)?

Now, in my excitement, I had read only a little and decided to try them out. At first I heard nothing and thought the receiver was dead or that I had miswired. But after 30 seconds the sound kicked in, though it sounded overdriven and distorted. After another minute, the system seemed to settle and for the next hour or two of watching they sounded great. Clean sound.

Another note, I have the receiver set to under 8ohms because the speakers are 6.

Can anyone tell me if I should stop now and get a lower powered receiver? Is this experience with the first few minutes of use normal? When searching online I've tried to find receivers others are using with these speakers but oddly they are either low powered Lepai amps (20wpc) or larger 100wpc amps. So I'm confused. Is my setup okay?
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post #2 of 20 Old 01-30-2014, 01:23 AM
 
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Don't worry so much about max power ratings on speakers, as they rarely come with a definition of just what it means anyways. Don't worry about it in any case. Just be prudent with the volume knob, don't turn it up to 11 (if it starts to sound distorted or bad, turn it down!). Did you have the volume at a high level when you first started up? Sounds strange but if your connections are properly done and it doesn't repeat itself, don't worry about it. Setting your receiver for other than 8 ohms likely is simply a power limiter for lower impedance speakers, most just leave it at the 8ohm setting for max power available....8 vs 6 ohms shouldn't be a problem in any case, it's 4 ohm speakers that can tax lesser amps more. Enjoy the music/movies!
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post #3 of 20 Old 01-30-2014, 05:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you so much for the response!

I think the Kenwood is on a different scale, because I've tested the headphone jack before (to see if the amp even worked) and 11 would be very low. Typically 40-50 is normal listening volume.

So when I plugged in the speakers, I put it at about 25. The distortion at first happened at even low volumes, and the one speaker was clean and not the other, and then the other cut out for a few moments and then came back. Finally after a minute (and without me doing anything other than changing channels) both were on and sounded fine, so I cranked it up to 45 and put on a movie and it was all good from there.

I'm thinking maybe the power on the jacks for the receiver hadn't been used in a while and the power was struggling to get through at first? Having never setup a real stereo before I thought I had done something wrong, which may be the case! But I was very careful with the wiring (brand new 16-gauge RCA, btw), and since I got balanced clean sound ultimately I think I'm set there.

I might try the 8ohm setting to see how it sounds, but the manual was pretty clear on that. The switch is 8ohms or more on one side and less than 8ohms on the other.

Also, the receiver has slots for a second set of speakers, so I could move the speakers to the B connectors, if you think that's a good test.

Thank you so much again for your response, I definitely feel more confident now about using this receiver!
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post #4 of 20 Old 01-30-2014, 04:21 PM
 
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Sorry, the turning it to 11 is a reference to Spinal Tap http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xgx4k83zzc smile.gif Not your actual master volume control level....and not all master volume control scales are done the same way (try this https://www.avsforum.com/t/1144106/what-do-the-volume-control-numbers-mean). Your starting point sounds reasonable in any case.

Might have been the sitting around that caused the strange startup, but not sure the technical explanation.

Here's some info on that 8ohm switch http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/impedance-selector-switch-1
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post #5 of 20 Old 01-30-2014, 06:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Son of a bitch.  I still haven't seen that movie.  Must fix that this weekend with my new system!  Hehe.

 

Thanks for your help!

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post #6 of 20 Old 02-16-2014, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Don't worry so much about max power ratings on speakers, as they rarely come with a definition of just what it means anyways. Don't worry about it in any case. Just be prudent with the volume knob, don't turn it up to 11 (if it starts to sound distorted or bad, turn it down!). Did you have the volume at a high level when you first started up? Sounds strange but if your connections are properly done and it doesn't repeat itself, don't worry about it. Setting your receiver for other than 8 ohms likely is simply a power limiter for lower impedance speakers, most just leave it at the 8ohm setting for max power available....8 vs 6 ohms shouldn't be a problem in any case, it's 4 ohm speakers that can tax lesser amps more. Enjoy the music/movies!

 

So, I've been running this setup for a few weeks now, and mostly enjoy it very much.  Music sounds phenomenal, and watching Kill Bill right now is blowing me away.

 

However, something I've noticed from several different tv shows and movies (including Kill BIll) is dialogue clipping.  I hear a sharp buzz sometimes from a voice speaking (usually when a person with a bassy voice suddenly raised their voice sharply), even during quiet scenes and even during LOW volume.  I only notice it in dialogue.'

 

I've tried a few things to fix this:

 

1)  Right now, my Samsung Plasma (PN42C450) is the switcher for my laptop, roku, and blu-ray player.  I used to use the TVs analog out mini jack to go into the rca connections of the Kenwood receiver.  During the opening scene of the series Firefly, I would always hear the clipping when one character says "Nice cover fire".  I decided to experiment and plugged my headphones straight into the analog out from the TV, bypassing the receiver, and wouldn't you know it I heard the same clipping!

 

So I decided to switch to using the optical digital out from the TV to the receiver using the Geffen GTV-DD-2-AA.  The sound is a bit clearer but the clipping still happens.  Granted, my tv is converting every signal to stereo on the digital output.  Could the conversion be producing a distorted signal?

 

2)  The stereo receiver has an A speaker and B speaker connections.  I tried switching my speakers over to the B speaker jacks, thinking maybe the A jacks were problematic.  I had the same issue I had when I first hooked up the new speakers!  At first I heard nothing, then after 30 seconds sound kicked in.  At first, sound was very distorted but horrible clipping.  But then, they speaker settled and came through clean.  What's really weird is that to get them to really settle and stop clipping I had to turn the volume on the receiver UP.  As if the receiver wasn't giving enough power at the low volume to get a clean signal.  Cranking it up to loud sounded better and better, and once I hit that point I turned it back down and all was clean, except to occasional dialogue clipping mentioned above.

 

I'm frustrated, because I'm always waiting for the next clipping to occur rather than just enjoying movies.  Is it reasonable to think my receiver is responsible, even though 95% of what it produces sounds great?  Should I just give in and buy a new receiver with HDMI switching and call it a day?  If it's likely to fix this issue I'm absolutely all for it, but I'd like to know before a spend $400 (I'm looking at the Marantz NR1403).

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

Thank you!

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post #7 of 20 Old 02-16-2014, 01:55 PM
 
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What happens when you bypass the tv altogether?
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post #8 of 20 Old 02-16-2014, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

What happens when you bypass the tv altogether?

Good question!  I just tried that, and I still have the buzzing distortion sounds on the line from Firefly.  I bypassed the tv by going straight from a DVD on my Blu-Ray player (via optical out) to the receiver and it has the same problem on the same line.  I can't bypass the TV from my Roku 3 because it only has HDMI.

 

Now, I also just listened to it with my headphones online out of my Macbook Pro on Netflix and it does seem that the original recording may be flawed, but not nearly as pronounced.

 

Can anyone verify on their system?  If you have netflix, the show is Firefly, the first episode, at about 3:30, after a big ship exploded and the main character laughs, the next line is "Nice cover fire!"  There seems to be some clipping on the "Nice."  It may be in the original recording, which would make this a bad reference for my issue, but I'm not sure!

 

Thank you!

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post #9 of 20 Old 02-16-2014, 03:07 PM
 
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Its the recording, sounds a little nasally to me.
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post #10 of 20 Old 02-16-2014, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Its the recording, sounds a little nasally to me.

Thank you for checking!  Well, that's a bad reference then.  The show doesn't generally have great sound, but that line is very harsh on my speakers.  Sounds like clipping making an ugly buzzing sound.

 

I'm starting to wonder if these speakers are simply making me aware of badly recorded dialogue.  But it happened in Kill Bill here and there too, and I feel like that recording quality should be pretty flawless.

 

I may just buy a receiver to test with, and keep it if the problem is fixed.

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post #11 of 20 Old 02-16-2014, 03:31 PM
 
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Recordings aren't perfect but I don't remember any spots in Kill Bill that sound like that....but glad to put that in and test too if you give me some times to check....I don't think I'd call it clipping either. Maybe sibilance....
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post #12 of 20 Old 02-16-2014, 07:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Recordings aren't perfect but I don't remember any spots in Kill Bill that sound like that....but glad to put that in and test too if you give me some times to check....I don't think I'd call it clipping either. Maybe sibilance....

I'll look for a timecode when I get a chance to put Kill Bill back on.  Most of Kill Bill sounded gorgeous, especially when Bill spoke in those low bassy but crystal clear tones.

 

Now, for an extreme example of what I'm hearing, go to :40 into this youtube video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvlObTrzYok

 

Imagine hearing audio like that for a split second, as in a single syllable of a word.  In the case of Firefly, I was hearing that on the 'N' from the word "Nice" in the "Nice cover fire" line.

 

I'll try to find other examples though.

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post #13 of 20 Old 02-16-2014, 07:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Recordings aren't perfect but I don't remember any spots in Kill Bill that sound like that....but glad to put that in and test too if you give me some times to check....I don't think I'd call it clipping either. Maybe sibilance....

Ok, do you have Inglorious Basterds?  Watching it now, around 28:00, when Brad Pitt says to the german officer "Seargent Hugo Stieglitz!" I hear a bad buzz right on "Stieglitz."  Every time I hear.  This is rented through Amazon video on demand through my roku.

 

EDIT: Through a random search for this same scene on youtube, I can hear this on my laptop now too!  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grq0rhtbtAw

 

What is going on here????  Is this a loudness war effect?  Bad compression on web streams?  I can't imagine this is on the Blu-ray.  

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post #14 of 20 Old 02-16-2014, 07:59 PM
 
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Isn't it fun hearing things you didn't before? cool.gif

I had IB saved on my dvr but ran out of room and deleted it and although its in my wish list don't have the disc as yet....
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post #15 of 20 Old 02-16-2014, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Isn't it fun hearing things you didn't before? cool.gif

I had IB saved on my dvr but ran out of room and deleted it and although its in my wish list don't have the disc as yet....

Did you see my edit? The scene is on YouTube! It's either in the original recording or a bad file digital file is floating around!
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post #16 of 20 Old 02-16-2014, 08:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Isn't it fun hearing things you didn't before? cool.gif

I had IB saved on my dvr but ran out of room and deleted it and although its in my wish list don't have the disc as yet....

Did you see my edit? The scene is on YouTube! It's either in the original recording or a bad file digital file is floating around!

Not much of a youtube kinda guy I suppose. Plus last time I used the app seemed really klunky for searching....and the audio on my computer isn't worthy of use (so I don't).
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post #17 of 20 Old 02-16-2014, 09:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Not much of a youtube kinda guy I suppose. Plus last time I used the app seemed really klunky for searching....and the audio on my computer isn't worthy of use (so I don't).

Oh I know youtube on computer is not ideal! But with headphones you can hear the same distortion I hear on my tv. I posted the link in the above post. Suffice it to say it's very much in the file in this case, which is a little bewildering.
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post #18 of 20 Old 02-16-2014, 09:20 PM
 
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Like I said, recordings aren't perfect...you'll find others, too....just don't get too OC about it wink.gif
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Just for you I downloaded the app on my ps3 (guess its only been on my bedroom blu ray players and the tv's own app but I'm lazy today). You mean the sergeant Brad Pitt is interrogating and first says "Sergeant Hugo Stiglitz"? BTW, sergeants aren't officers. I don't hear anything odd in any case but this may not be the same audio feed since the clip could be different as it is of a different length? It's HD pic but only 2.0 audio.

ps they still have a clunky search, despite hugo being part of the title it wouldn't bring that up until I spelled out Inglorious Basterds Hugo....
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post #20 of 20 Old 02-26-2014, 09:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

You mean the sergeant Brad Pitt is interrogating and first says "Sergeant Hugo Stiglitz"? BTW, sergeants aren't officers. I don't hear anything odd in any case but this may not be the same audio feed since the clip could be different as it is of a different length? It's HD pic but only 2.0 audio.

ps they still have a clunky search, despite hugo being part of the title it wouldn't bring that up until I spelled out Inglorious Basterds Hugo....

Thanks so much for checking!
It's interesting. Like you said, I'm hearing things I just never noticed before! The YouTube clip has the same audio issue as the roku rental, so seems there might be a bad file out there, but obviously not all.

By the way, I said he was talking to a German officer, not referring to the seargent as an officer!

I tried out a friends stereo recently (a newer Sony str-d130 and it sounded much cleaner, so I'm going to look at buying a new receiver. My tv stand doesn't have a lot of space so I'm thinking of getting a Marantz slimline.

Thanks again!
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