X4000 sounds terrible compared to 1909. I need help - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 17 Old 02-09-2014, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Just got an denon x4000 the other day to upgrade my 1909. So far the 1909 sounded way better. I've ran multeq xt32 several times and everytime it is crushing my midrange to nothing. From about 90 to 200 hz it's putting a huge dip in it and is making it sound super bright and thin. There's no weight to the sound at all. It sounds like I'm using really loud PC speakers. I've read and read the audyssey tips and nothing seems to be working.

I'm at a loss. I was expecting a pretty decent improvement over the 1909 but so far it sounds better in every way. The only place the x4000 seems better is with my sub but it's putting it so low it barely does anything. I've been turning it up almost 5db to get it decent but the sound I get then is amazing with it.

I've tried two different mics and one dies slightly better then the other but neither is getting the midrange back. I know people say it's flat mow and all but it's not right. Music is hard to listen to and hurts. There's no smoothness at all. It's all bass and treble.

The only way I can get it to sound decent is to bypass L/R and that's not right.

Here are done things I've tried.

Multiple mic patterns
Different speaker toe
Different mics of the same model

If anyone knows of something that would magically kill midrange when running setup I would live to hear it.

Any help would be great. I really don't want to spend $200 and send this back to accesories4less. They charge a 15% restocking fee.
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post #2 of 17 Old 02-09-2014, 08:57 AM
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Go in and make sure you don't have Dynamic Volume on would be my recommendation...What you are describing is exactly what I thought with my AVR-4311ci and as soon as I changed that setting everything opened up and sounded GREAT!
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post #3 of 17 Old 02-09-2014, 09:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Nope. It's off. Just audyssey and dynamic EQ on.
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post #4 of 17 Old 02-09-2014, 09:05 AM
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Then I am at a loss...Fwiw, I moved from a Denon AVR-4806 that I was extremely pleased with to the 4311ci and couldn't be happier. That said, I can't imagine the AVR1909 being in the same league as the X4000 so something is wrong. If you used a tripod or mic stand and followed the Audyssey setup correctly and it still sounds as you describe, I don't know what else it could be. Good Luck.
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post #5 of 17 Old 02-09-2014, 09:28 AM
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I wonder if there is something 'up' with Denon's application of Audyssey. I've read more than a few threads where people have this same or similar problem. A couple of months ago I decided to buy a new AVR for my bedroom two channel setup so I could get some bass control - I removed a Harman Kardon 3390 that had zero bass control. I bought a Denon 1713 with XT thinking it should be good enough to eq my 2 bookshelf speakers and sub. WRONG! It set the LH speaker at +1db - the RH speaker was at a ridiculous -9db or -10db. Neither speaker is obstructed in any way. I re-ran Audyssey setup thinking I might have done something wrong. Similar results. I've run Audyssey 4-5 times now with the same results. Setting both speakers at 0db did the trick. The sub sounds better than ever though.

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post #6 of 17 Old 02-09-2014, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bevofrancis View Post

Just got an denon x4000 the other day to upgrade my 1909. So far the 1909 sounded way better. I've ran multeq xt32 several times and everytime it is crushing my midrange to nothing.
...
I've tried two different mics and one dies slightly better then the other but neither is getting the midrange back.
...
Any help would be great. I really don't want to spend $200 and send this back to accesories4less. They charge a 15% restocking fee.

Hi bevofrancis, if you haven't do so try resetting the microprocessor and rerun setup.
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post #7 of 17 Old 02-09-2014, 09:48 AM
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How many positions did you run? Have you read thru the audyssey thread?
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post #8 of 17 Old 02-09-2014, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I've read through it several times. I've tried several different ways. Using 8 points, 3 points. I want to try a few more ways but I need to get my house empty first.

How do you reset the processor?
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post #9 of 17 Old 02-09-2014, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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It's weird because with the 1909 it sounded pretty great everytime I reran it. I haven't got a decent sound yet with the x4000. I might call denon Monday and see what they say. It's a refurb so maybe something is wrong. It just seems odd it would set the EQ to reduce the 100-200hz sound so much and make it sound like this.
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post #10 of 17 Old 02-09-2014, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bevofrancis View Post

How do you reset the processor?

Resetting The Microprocessor:
1. Turn off the power
2. Press Power while simultaneously pressing Info and Back
3. Once the display starts flashing at intervals of about 1 second, release the two buttons.

Note: If in step 3 the display does not flash at intervals of 1 second, start over from step 1.

Also post and check out The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ.
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post #11 of 17 Old 02-09-2014, 03:45 PM
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IF you have a sound pressure meter AND a test disc, you might be able to kind of "check" things by running some specific frequencies and readings on the sound meter. Maybe there is something funny. I would go thru the " hard reset" first as others have had success in the "technique"... but it is indeed strange. Having said that my 4308 exhibits some "funnies" with audyssey on some sports channels... meh!!.... redoing the setup seems to help.

Just as a note, my take away from audyssey is that if your positions are widely dispersed, you may run into problem as the system can only compensate so much to help things out.

PS. sounds funny about the 100-200 BUT 2X60 is kind of in that domain and in terms of frequency "things" 1X, 2X, 4X, etc is common in terms of "interference"/communications with the "first order" being important and thereafter, things "degrade" fast enough to not be of interest... just a comment though.
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post #12 of 17 Old 02-09-2014, 05:20 PM
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What sound mode are you using? For some reason when I had my X4000 in direct mode it produced low sound lacking fullness but when I switched to Pro Logic II the fullness came all back.
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post #13 of 17 Old 02-09-2014, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
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I think all may be good now. I did the reset and reran with a different pattern and it sounds much better. I also left the crossovers at the suggested 40hz instead of switching all to 80 and it sounds much more full with music. Before the crossover switching really did nothing.

I don't know if it was the new pattern or the reset but it's much, much better. Tomorrow I should get a few hours home alone to play with it where I can try some more patterns and really crank up some music but right now I'm much happier.

Thanks alot everyone for the help. I can't wait to get done more time with the family gone to really try it out.

Is there a way I can change this thread titke so people do not get the wrong idea about the x4000. If not can someone switch it to trouble shooting x4000 sound or something so it doesn't sound so bad.

I would like to keep it open though so if I have other questions I could just ask them here.

I can't believe the difference. It's night and day from before. It's way better than the 1909 now. It's weird how much it changed. I was on the verge of spending $150 in restocking fees to send it back.
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post #14 of 17 Old 02-21-2014, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bevofrancis View Post

I think all may be good now. I did the reset and reran with a different pattern and it sounds much better. I also left the crossovers at the suggested 40hz instead of switching all to 80 and it sounds much more full with music. Before the crossover switching really did nothing.

I don't know if it was the new pattern or the reset but it's much, much better. Tomorrow I should get a few hours home alone to play with it where I can try some more patterns and really crank up some music but right now I'm much happier.

Thanks alot everyone for the help. I can't wait to get done more time with the family gone to really try it out.

Is there a way I can change this thread titke so people do not get the wrong idea about the x4000. If not can someone switch it to trouble shooting x4000 sound or something so it doesn't sound so bad.

I would like to keep it open though so if I have other questions I could just ask them here.

I can't believe the difference. It's night and day from before. It's way better than the 1909 now. It's weird how much it changed. I was on the verge of spending $150 in restocking fees to send it back.

Thanks for the info! I sold my marantz 5007 to get the x4000, because I felt the marantz was missing 'oomph' to its music and movie sound. Well, I got the x4000 hooked up, ran audyssey and bam- had the same initial impression you had. I re-ran it, but same thing. Music just sounded anemic. What I thought I was missing in the marantz, I was for sure missing here! I'll take your experience and reset the processor and hope it works. Everything I read, this thing should be sounding much better than what I am hearing.
Again, thanks for the post, I was glad to see I'm not alone!

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post #15 of 17 Old 02-22-2014, 05:19 AM
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hey, i have just got the denon x4000 to replace my 3313, im having the same issues as the op, x4000 sounding terribly bright for me even with audyssey off. im returning it and sticking with the 3313.
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post #16 of 17 Old 02-22-2014, 06:41 AM
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Isn't the X4000 and the 3313 basically the same other than XT32? I went from a B&K Ref50 to the 4000 and it sounds good to me.
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post #17 of 17 Old 02-03-2019, 06:26 PM
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I know I'm resuscitating a 5-year old thread but since it helped me I thought I would reply here.

I basically had the same problem as the original poster: been using a Denon AVR-X4000 for a while, and I always found the sound quite harsh. The highs were literally hurting close to reference level, and given my rather small room has dual PC12-Plus, bass was quite a let down. For years I thought this was a "balanced" sound, and blamed the untreated room for the harshness. I do indeed have a second home theater in the basement, with much cheaper speakers, powered by an Onkyo TX-NR818, and the sound is so much better there -- fuller, not painful, etc. -- it's not even funny. But it's also a small, fully carpeted room with textured ceiling, so that helps.

Anyway, having heard other home theater setups recently, I decided to see if I was doing something wrong with the Denon. I've re-ran Audyssey multiple times over the years, but I decided to try the microprocessor reset trick that time.

Well, just a word of warning: this is a full factory reset of the receiver. You'll have to set all the inputs up again after this. And you have to re-run Audyssey afterwards as everything is deleted. Now I decided to run Audyssey a little differently this time, with the 8 positions more grouped around the main listening position, and with the 4 last positions on the forward edge of the seat (I've never included positions that forward before).

So I can't tell if it's the factory reset that helped, or the new Audyssey positions, but it did make a major difference. I now have plenty of bass and mid-bass, the thing that I was after during years. And the highs are no more harsh. So I'm pretty happy with the setup now -- but it took me so long to get this right that I fear many people would have either changed their AVR or just stopped bothering.

Another thing: I've discovered that audio parameters, in particular the subwoofer trim level, is applied and remembered on a "by-audio mode" basis, not by-source nor a mix of the two. There are some exceptions: for example, Dolby modes all share the same parameters. But this could be confusing if you adjusted your sub trim level for movies and now found out that music is not that fun. It may be that the sub trim is back to default.

This is handy to fix the Multich Stereo bug. It seems to me that in this mode, the Denon X4000 is sorely lacking bass. I suspect that the only bass redirected to the sub is from the L/R channels, since it's a stereo signal, and not all channels currently playing. Thus, assuming 5 channel, that mode would lack 20*log10(5/2) = 8 dB. That peculiar correction can be applied for the Multich Stereo mode without affecting the other modes.

Anyway, many thanks to you, 2014 posters.

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Denon Avr X4000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver , Denon Avr 1909 7 1 Channel Multizone Home Theater Receiver , Denon Avr 4311ci 9 2 Channel Network Multi Room Home Theater Receiver With Hdmi 1 4a , Denon Avr 4806 7 1 Audio Video Reference Receiver , Yamaha Rx V475 5 1 Channel Network Av Receiver

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