Denon X4000 vs. Marantz 7008 comparison - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 21 Old 02-22-2014, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Has anyone done a comparison of the Denon x4000 vs. the Marantz 7008? What I value: Sound, primarily surround sound for movies. Audyssey XT32, Video switching.. I want to run everything thru the receiver.. how good the video processing is matters to me, 3D passthru, latest codecs, 7.2 setup with in wall subs in from left corner or room. I know the price is different but both are in my range. $1200-2000. Am I missing any other contenders?

Also, Are you getting anything more in the corresponding preamp processors? Unless I go to the 8801, which is a LOT more... I can't get x32 in the preamp processors out there?

In my setup, I don't use Airplay, Pandora, Spotify and Sirius XM Internet Radio I have a Home Theater PC running Windows 7 w/i7 processor, 8 gig memory...HDMI output which allows me a lot of flexibility. I am not using any analog devices. I am not using XLR connectors between my 3 Sunfire Signature Amps and the processor. They are stacked in a cabinet so I did not think there was a reason to go XLR when the distance is less than 3 -4 feet.

Here are pics of my setup:

https://www.avsforum.com/t/1518325/a-case-where-a-high-end-sound-bar-is-the-right-answer

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post #2 of 21 Old 02-24-2014, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Any thoughts on the 2 of these? I have my own Sunfire Amplifiers (3 of them) I am using. So really its about the preamp/processing piece of the equation.

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post #3 of 21 Old 02-24-2014, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael James View Post

Any thoughts on the 2 of these? I have my own Sunfire Amplifiers (3 of them) I am using. So really its about the preamp/processing piece of the equation.

Denon and Marantz are made by the same company and the internals are mostly the same on their comparable units. IMHO you are paying for the name if you get the Marantz. With both units having XT32 and similar, if not the same internals, you wont find any difference in sound quality between the two.
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post #4 of 21 Old 02-24-2014, 05:27 PM - Thread Starter
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That is what I was wondering.. what am I getting for $800 more in the Marantz? I am not using the amp sections of either, and I am using all digital inputs

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post #5 of 21 Old 02-24-2014, 06:42 PM
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You may also want to check out Yamaha's offerings. I know you seem to be an Audyssey fan but the YPAO in your price range also does a very good job. For the money you are going to spend the A3030 or maybe even the 2030. The other two(Denon and Marantz) are good AVR's and IMO the X4000 would be the better buy of those two, but the Yamaha's deserve a look. Also consider the Anthem's and Cambridge models. There's more to a good sounding,reliable AVR than its Eq method.
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post #6 of 21 Old 02-24-2014, 07:31 PM
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I switched from an X4000 to an Anthem MRX-500, I prefer the sound and ARC room correction over the Denon. And the new ARC is even better.

Anthem MRX-500 - Vincent SAV-P200 - RAW Acoustics Lambda Plus arrays, Apex C II center - HT4 tower surrounds - CSS WR.30 sides - Rythmik FV15HP - Vizio XVT553SV - Xbox One - Xbox 360 - WD Live TV - QNAP TS212 NAS w/WD Red drives - APC H15BLK
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post #7 of 21 Old 02-24-2014, 08:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post


Denon and Marantz are made by the same company and the internals are mostly the same on their comparable units. IMHO you are paying for the name if you get the Marantz. With both units having XT32 and similar, if not the same internals, you wont find any difference in sound quality between the two.

Denon/Marantz having the same internals may have been true early on when the parent company acquired marantz, but it hasn't been true for a while.  Here's Audioholics take on the matter.

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post #8 of 21 Old 02-24-2014, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio4life View Post

Denon/Marantz having the same internals may have been true early on when the parent company acquired marantz, but it hasn't been true for a while.  Here's Audioholics take on the matter.

Dated information from Audioholics.. confused.gif
Going forward in NEW AVRs being introduced, Denon & Marantz will share common internals...

No real choice, parent company D&M Holdings has had significant $ financial losses after the Bain Capitol (Mitt Romney) buyout..


Just my $0.05.... 👍😉
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post #9 of 21 Old 02-24-2014, 10:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by M Code View Post


Dated information from Audioholics.. confused.gif
Going forward in NEW AVRs being introduced, Denon & Marantz will share common internals...

No real choice, parent company D&M Holdings has had significant $ financial losses after the Bain Capitol (Mitt Romney) buyout..


Just my $0.05.... 👍😉

An Audioholics review from 8 months ago is dated?  Do you have any links to show where it's stated they will share common internals, or is that just your opinion?

 

Here's a quote from the Audioholics link:

 

 

Quote:
However, this year we decided to reach out to D&M (The parent company of Denon and Marantz) and ask them what the differences really are. They responded with in depth diagrams and schematics, detailing the variations between the lineups.
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post #10 of 21 Old 02-25-2014, 06:01 AM
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As much as I like to have a 7.1 analog input if one doesn't need it I would go with the X4000. Used as a prepro I think one would be hard pressed to tell any SQ differences between the X4000 and the SR7008.

Bill

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Emotiva XMC-1, Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE (preamp), SX-500s, ST-500, ST-250, Marantz SA-10, Oppo UDP-205, UDP-203, BDP-105, BDP-103, BDP-93, BDP-83, Panasonic TC-P60GT50, Panamax 5100EX, Salk HT2-TLs, Salk 1801b center, Salk 1801TL (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
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post #11 of 21 Old 02-25-2014, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

As much as I like to have a 7.1 analog input if one doesn't need it I would go with the X4000. Used as a prepro I think one would be hard pressed to tell any SQ differences between the X4000 and the SR7008.

Bill

As well as the Yamaha's,Anthem's,Cambridge's, in this price range. They will have the analog inputs and also have very good Eq programs. Xt32 is not the only thing out there that does a very good job eq'ing a room. I do agree with you though the difference in the sound quality between the Denon and Marantz is not worth the price difference as the way the OP is going to use them.
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post #12 of 21 Old 02-25-2014, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by phantom52 View Post

As well as the Yamaha's,Anthem's,Cambridge's, in this price range. They will have the analog inputs and also have very good Eq programs. Xt32 is not the only thing out there that does a very good job eq'ing a room. I do agree with you though the difference in the sound quality between the Denon and Marantz is not worth the price difference as the way the OP is going to use them.

As far as I know the Anthem AVRs do not have a 7.1 analog input. I'm sure they all have a few analog inputs (stereo) but not many will have a 7.1 analog input. I never said Audyssey XT32 was the only RC system out there that does a good job. In fact I didn't even mention Audyssey in the post you quoted. But it is the only RC system I have recent experience with.

Bill

My SACD collection and HRAudio.net Library, getting larger as my wallet gets smaller ;-).

Emotiva XMC-1, Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE (preamp), SX-500s, ST-500, ST-250, Marantz SA-10, Oppo UDP-205, UDP-203, BDP-105, BDP-103, BDP-93, BDP-83, Panasonic TC-P60GT50, Panamax 5100EX, Salk HT2-TLs, Salk 1801b center, Salk 1801TL (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
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post #13 of 21 Old 02-25-2014, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Pretty good article on room correction methods. Page 2 lists specific ones and how they vary.

http://hometheaterreview.com/automated-room-correction-explained/

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post #14 of 21 Old 02-25-2014, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio4life View Post

An Audioholics review from 8 months ago is dated?  Do you have any links to show where it's stated they will share common internals, or is that just your opinion?

Since we travel to the Orient 3x a year, we know very well the Chinese subcontractors that assemble both the Marantz and Denon AVRs...
As mentioned in previous posts...
Firstly, Denon has much greater AVR sales than Marantz..
Secondly, Denon shifted their strategy to go after AVR market share and lost the support of their most profitable catgeory the higher end AVRs sold/installed by the AV specialist..
Thirdly, Bain Capitol (Mitt Romney) bought controling interest in D&M Holdings (Denon's parent company), next they shredded the organization of their experienced sales/marketing and design teams.

Bottom line..
D&M management merged the Marantz & Denon AVR design teams into 1, their common platforms will be introed over next several months..

Just my $0.05... 👍😉
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post #15 of 21 Old 02-25-2014, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio4life View Post

An Audioholics review from 8 months ago is dated?  Do you have any links to show where it's stated they will share common internals, or is that just your opinion?

Here's a quote from the Audioholics link:


Of course they are not going to say yes you are paying $800 more for the Marantz name. Its good to see a couple differences but those few differences don't really constitute the price difference in my opinion. If there was a $50 price difference I would get the marantz in heartbeat but I don't see 800 worth of upgrades in that link. I also doubt that it would make any difference in terms of sound quality but again this just my opinion and I have not done blind comparisons with those receivers.

And what mcode said.
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post #16 of 21 Old 02-25-2014, 01:59 PM
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Unless the 7008 is a step down from the 7007 in some meaningful way, after hearing both the 7007 and 4000 in pure-direct mode today at our nearest BB, I'm disinclined to think the 4000 is quite on the same level. Not that that means much, as it was hardly a thorough examination. And I wouldn't necessarily say it sounded $800 better either, especially if you plan to use external amplification, assuming the amps had anything to do with what I heard. Then again, the actual difference in street cost might be less than the difference in SRP.

It surprised me I heard any difference at all, as I've always been told we don't have the capacity to accurately remember differences in tonal character beyond so many seconds; but a few minutes after ABing the Marantz and a Yamaha 2030, I noticed they had a 4000 in the room. It took him another minute or so to figure out where the pure direct button was - which he finally found on the remote - but both of us noticed the difference right away, playing the same passage of Potter 8. After hearing the other two AVRs sound identical or at least so close I had no clear preference, I didn't expect to hear any difference from the 4000 either, in pure direct. So, it was a bit of a surprise when the sales rep, a young boy who seemed enthusiastic, but not terribly experienced (why I asked they be put in pure direct) turned to me and basically said exactly what I was thinking.

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post #17 of 21 Old 02-25-2014, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

As far as I know the Anthem AVRs do not have a 7.1 analog input. I'm sure they all have a few analog inputs (stereo) but not many will have a 7.1 analog input. I never said Audyssey XT32 was the only RC system out there that does a good job. In fact I didn't even mention Audyssey in the post you quoted. But it is the only RC system I have recent experience with.

Bill

You are correct the Anthems do not have 7.1 channel analog inputs. Also didn't mean it to sound like you stated that Audyssey was the only Eq method out there. I was just giving the OP other options over Audyssey.
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post #18 of 21 Old 02-25-2014, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Chad Varnadore View Post

Unless the 7008 is a step down from the 7007 in some meaningful way, after hearing both the 7007 and 4000 in pure-direct mode today at our nearest BB, I'm disinclined to think the 4000 is quite on the same level. Not that that means much, as it was hardly a thorough examination. And I wouldn't necessarily say it sounded $800 better either, especially if you plan to use external amplification, assuming the amps had anything to do with what I heard. Then again, the actual difference in street cost might be less than the difference in SRP.

It surprised me I heard any difference at all, as I've always been told we don't have the capacity to accurately remember differences in tonal character beyond so many seconds; but a few minutes after ABing the Marantz and a Yamaha 2030, I noticed they had a 4000 in the room. It took him another minute or so to figure out where the pure direct button was - which he finally found on the remote - but both of us noticed the difference right away, playing the same passage of Potter 8. After hearing the other two AVRs sound identical or at least so close I had no clear preference, I didn't expect to hear any difference from the 4000 either, in pure direct. So, it was a bit of a surprise when the sales rep, a young boy who seemed enthusiastic, but not terribly experienced (why I asked they be put in pure direct) turned to me and basically said exactly what I was thinking.

Did you have any way to level match the receivers? I've noticed that you can't put two receivers at -20 and both be at the same volume. Without an spl meter to make sure both receivers were level matched it would be pretty difficult to judge.
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post #19 of 21 Old 02-25-2014, 05:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post


Since we travel to the Orient 3x a year, we know very well the Chinese subcontractors that assemble both the Marantz and Denon AVRs...
As mentioned in previous posts...
Firstly, Denon has much greater AVR sales than Marantz..
Secondly, Denon shifted their strategy to go after AVR market share and lost the support of their most profitable catgeory the higher end AVRs sold/installed by the AV specialist..
Thirdly, Bain Capitol (Mitt Romney) bought controling interest in D&M Holdings (Denon's parent company), next they shredded the organization of their experienced sales/marketing and design teams.

Bottom line..
D&M management merged the Marantz & Denon AVR design teams into 1, their common platforms will be introed over next several months..

Just my $0.05... 👍😉

Yes I've heard of the travails of Denon, Marantz and market share.  Interesting to hear of your travels, please let us know if D&M releases anything to refute what they released to Audioholics eight months ago.

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post #20 of 21 Old 02-25-2014, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

Did you have any way to level match the receivers? I've noticed that you can't put two receivers at -20 and both be at the same volume. Without an spl meter to make sure both receivers were level matched it would be pretty difficult to judge.

I agree. Like I said, it was hardly conclusive, but substantial enough that I didn't want to chance the Denon, especially when I was already admittedly biased toward going with a Yamaha or Marantz (I've owned Denon's for over a decade - 5700, 5800, 5805, 3808 plus separate amp - and am ready for a change, even more so when I keep hearing about supposed declines in production quality and higher returns than the other two brands). I've always loved Denon's top end stuff; but even looking at the 4000 I didn't get the feeling that it was built in quite the same league as my 3808, much less the other models I've owned. The Magnolia employee played all three AVRs in pure direct, with the volume knob set to 0, which he was at least under the impression they were evenly calibrated. I wouldn't put much faith in that though. I can only say that I didn't notice any appreciable difference in volume when doing a more direct A/B between the Yamaha and Marantz. Again it had been several minutes between those and listening to the Denon. I can only say it sounded close to the same volume, but I have no way of verifying it was.

To clarity, I don't believe the difference I heard could have been influenced by any subtle volume difference there may have been, even if they weren't precisely level matched, unless maybe the Denon's amps were being strained a lot more at that volume level than the other two; it was pretty loud, louder than I listen at home, and possibly louder than reference.

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post #21 of 21 Old 02-14-2015, 10:05 AM
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You can control your Denon AVR via the Marantz iOS App (and probably vice versa). They have to share most internal components, don't they?
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