Denon AVR-X7200W 9.2/11.2ch 2014/2015 Receiver Details- - Page 179 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5341 of 5368 Old 09-07-2019, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by kdp99 View Post

The 8500 (£3,500) is the flagship replacement for the 7200, not aware of pre-pro in the offing.
Yeah big price jump, I always have had their top model and not sure I can justify the price tags now, hoping to see a X6600, but suspect not this year.

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post #5342 of 5368 Old 09-08-2019, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Spizz View Post
Is there any news on a replacement Flagship Denon models ie. replacements for the now 5 year old X7200WA , and/or finally a Preamp Denon Model?
The X7200WA was replaced January 2018 with the current "flagship" model, X8500H. The current "flagship" pre/pro is the Marantz AV8805.
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post #5343 of 5368 Old 09-08-2019, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by kluken View Post
Yeah big price jump, I always have had their top model and not sure I can justify the price tags now, hoping to see a X6600, but suspect not this year.
As noted in post 1 of the 2019 Owner's thread, neither the X4500H nor the X6500H is being replaced this year, but rather instead in the fall 2020.
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post #5344 of 5368 Old 09-08-2019, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
The X7200WA was replaced January 2018 with the current "flagship" model, X8500H. The current "flagship" pre/pro is the Marantz AV8805.
I've not studied the 8500 but have the impression that the only thing it has over our 7200WA is the extra power amps? I suppose there is a thread here somewhere about it...
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post #5345 of 5368 Old 09-08-2019, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post
I've not studied the 8500 but have the impression that the only thing it has over our 7200WA is the extra power amps? I suppose there is a thread here somewhere about it...
The most important difference is the expanded channel count. The 7200 has 9 amps and 11 channel processing, and can run Auro3D up to 10.1 (5.1 + 4 heights + VOG). The 8500 has 13 amps, 13ch processing, and can run Auro3D up to 13.1 (7.1 + 5 heights + VOG) and also has extra speaker posts so you can combine the 13.1ch Auro3D layout with two different speakers for a different Atmos config (e.g. 9.1.4 or 7.1.6).

So if all you're running is the standard 7.1.4 Atmos setup and you don't care about Auro3D, then the 8500 doesn't give you much of anything from a basic functionality standpoint.

Separate from that, the 8500 does have some feature differences being a newer model. For example, it has Heos built in, eARC support, some updates to WiFi/Bluetooth standards, etc. Also, from a "future proof" standpoint, the 8500 will get a hardware upgrade to HDMI 2.1 (when available) just like the 7200 got an upgrade to HDMI 2.0a since it was released with HDMI 1.4b.

But if none of that matters to you now, and you're just running a 7.1.4 setup, then stick with the 7200.
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post #5346 of 5368 Old 09-08-2019, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
The most important difference is the expanded channel count. The 7200 has 9 amps and 11 channel processing, and can run Auro3D up to 10.1 (5.1 + 4 heights + VOG). The 8500 has 13 amps, 13ch processing, and can run Auro3D up to 13.1 (7.1 + 5 heights + VOG) and also has extra speaker posts so you can combine the 13.1ch Auro3D layout with two different speakers for a different Atmos config (e.g. 9.1.4 or 7.1.6).

So if all you're running is the standard 7.1.4 Atmos setup and you don't care about Auro3D, then the 8500 doesn't give you much of anything from a basic functionality standpoint.

Separate from that, the 8500 does have some feature differences being a newer model. For example, it has Heos built in, eARC support, some updates to WiFi/Bluetooth standards, etc. Also, from a "future proof" standpoint, the 8500 will get a hardware upgrade to HDMI 2.1 (when available) just like the 7200 got an upgrade to HDMI 2.0a since it was released with HDMI 1.4b.

But if none of that matters to you now, and you're just running a 7.1.4 setup, then stick with the 7200.
Thanks for the rundown; it gives me comfort as none of the updates are of interest to me. My speaker complement is very well fixed, and I hope not to have to replace my 4K PJ for many years to come!
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post #5347 of 5368 Old 09-08-2019, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
As noted in post 1 of the 2019 Owner's thread, neither the X4500H nor the X6500H is being replaced this year, but rather instead in the fall 2020.
Cool, then looks like I will hold my X7200WA for another 2 years.

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post #5348 of 5368 Old 09-08-2019, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
The most important difference is the expanded channel count. The 7200 has 9 amps and 11 channel processing, and can run Auro3D up to 10.1 (5.1 + 4 heights + VOG). The 8500 has 13 amps, 13ch processing, and can run Auro3D up to 13.1 (7.1 + 5 heights + VOG) and also has extra speaker posts so you can combine the 13.1ch Auro3D layout with two different speakers for a different Atmos config (e.g. 9.1.4 or 7.1.6).

So if all you're running is the standard 7.1.4 Atmos setup and you don't care about Auro3D, then the 8500 doesn't give you much of anything from a basic functionality standpoint.

Separate from that, the 8500 does have some feature differences being a newer model. For example, it has Heos built in, eARC support, some updates to WiFi/Bluetooth standards, etc. Also, from a "future proof" standpoint, the 8500 will get a hardware upgrade to HDMI 2.1 (when available) just like the 7200 got an upgrade to HDMI 2.0a since it was released with HDMI 1.4b.

But if none of that matters to you now, and you're just running a 7.1.4 setup, then stick with the 7200.
Nice summery! However, correct me if I am wrong, but does the 8500 also offer the ability to work with the Audyssey App and permit Eq curve customization? I personally think that is a very nice plus. Now is it worth the price point? Only the buyer can determine that.

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post #5349 of 5368 Old 09-08-2019, 06:10 PM
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Good point, that is accurate, the 7200 doesn't support the app
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post #5350 of 5368 Old 09-08-2019, 10:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
The X7200WA was replaced January 2018 with the current "flagship" model, X8500H. The current "flagship" pre/pro is the Marantz AV8805.
Understood. Any word on if Denon will ever release a Pre/Pro again like the legendary AVPA1HD?
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post #5351 of 5368 Old 09-09-2019, 01:33 AM
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Understood. Any word on if Denon will ever release a Pre/Pro again like the legendary AVPA1HD?
Not likely as Marantz has filled that niche.
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post #5352 of 5368 Old 10-23-2019, 10:37 AM
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I have a question : I am in the process of moving to a newly built house and , while I paid for the laying out of all the speaker cables for the Atmos system I have , I forgot to include the laying out of speaker cables for 2 speakers on the garage , so I can enjoy stereo music while I work at the garage .
Now , it would be almost impossible(the blown attic insulation mostly the cause besides the small space) for me to lay the speaker cables thru the whole lenght of the already finished house to the garage `s ceiling so I need another solution .
I have a brand new Denon HEOS Link , which I think I can use to transmit music from my 7200WA to a pair of Denon HEOS speakers .
My question is : Do I need anything else , beside he HEOS link and the two HEOS speakers to be able to transmit music from my 7200WA ? I understand the Link is
a pre-amp and the speakers are powered but I would like to be sure before I loose the wallet on the HEOS wireless speakers .
Will they work reliably ? I will welcome opinions from experience .
I also thought about ALEXA , but since I already have the Denon Link , I am willing to give it a try .
Thanks
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post #5353 of 5368 Old 10-23-2019, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by josey88 View Post
I have a question : I am in the process of moving to a newly built house and , while I paid for the laying out of all the speaker cables for the Atmos system I have , I forgot to include the laying out of speaker cables for 2 speakers on the garage , so I can enjoy stereo music while I work at the garage .
Now , it would be almost impossible(the blown attic insulation mostly the cause besides the small space) for me to lay the speaker cables thru the whole lenght of the already finished house to the garage `s ceiling so I need another solution .
I have a brand new Denon HEOS Link , which I think I can use to transmit music from my 7200WA to a pair of Denon HEOS speakers .
My question is : Do I need anything else , beside he HEOS link and the two HEOS speakers to be able to transmit music from my 7200WA ? I understand the Link is
a pre-amp and the speakers are powered but I would like to be sure before I loose the wallet on the HEOS wireless speakers .
Will they work reliably ? I will welcome opinions from experience .
I also thought about ALEXA , but since I already have the Denon Link , I am willing to give it a try .
Thanks
Nope.
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post #5354 of 5368 Old 12-06-2019, 03:18 PM
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Anybody know what kind of voltage the pre-outs output? Looking to use the 7200WA as a pre/pro with an external amp. Want to make sure the 7200WA can drive whatever amp I get to full rated power. Thanks in advance.

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post #5355 of 5368 Old 12-06-2019, 04:41 PM
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Anybody know what kind of voltage the pre-outs output? Looking to use the 7200WA as a pre/pro with an external amp. Want to make sure the 7200WA can drive whatever amp I get to full rated power. Thanks in advance.
D+M models generally have generous pre-out voltage, I think the nominal spec is usually 1.4Vrms but they're capable of a lot more unclipped voltage output.

For example Audioholics measured the X3300W and commented, "One thing I really love about Denon receivers is they NEVER skimp on their preamp out circuits. Like past models, the AVR-X3300W had an ample amount of drive. I measured a whopping 4.5Vrms unclipped output, which is more than double the voltage needed to make virtually any amplifier reach full rated power."

In Audioholics review of the X5200W (the step-down model from the X7200W), they found similar results: "The AVR-X5200W has plenty of grunt via the preamp outputs to use in conjunction with virtually any separate amplifier should you desire more power. I measured unclipped output of 4.5Vrms from every channel. We like to see at least 2Vrms and the Denon met this with over 6db of margin to spare."
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post #5356 of 5368 Old 12-15-2019, 04:24 PM
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So I was noticing my subwoofer was making a little distortion noise the other day, figured I'd turn down one of the settings on the 7200 to reduce the output level and then adjust the subwoofer itself the next day to compensate.

Come the next day (yesterday), there was no subwoofer output at all. Eventually checked the subwoofer itself by hooking up my portable cd player directly to it and it was indeed still working (phew, so not again...). But nothing coming from the 7200 when I hooked it back up. Tried all sorts of settings changes but still nothing.

So in the end went with reconfiguring my system to pretend I had two subwoofers and moved the subwoofer connection to the other subwoofer output. Subwoofer sound was back (after migrating the subwoofer 1 settings to subwoofer 2).

Only thing I tried with the receiver otherwise during all that was to unplug it for a while, which also did not bring back the original subwoofer output either.

So can one output be dead and the other still be working? I was going to try a reset, but not for a few days yet. Probably have to redo Audyssey also.

In the meantime, any other suggestions welcome on how to get the now non-functional subwoofer output to be functional again...

(2 1/2 years old... )

Edit: Apparently I was too optimistic yesterday, as today the subwoofer 2 channel was no longer functioning either. So make that both subwoofer outputs seemingly dead.

Last edited by fmalczewski; 12-16-2019 at 12:14 AM.
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post #5357 of 5368 Old 12-16-2019, 05:14 AM
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Originally Posted by fmalczewski View Post
So I was noticing my subwoofer was making a little distortion noise the other day, figured I'd turn down one of the settings on the 7200 to reduce the output level and then adjust the subwoofer itself the next day to compensate.

Come the next day (yesterday), there was no subwoofer output at all. Eventually checked the subwoofer itself by hooking up my portable cd player directly to it and it was indeed still working (phew, so not again...). But nothing coming from the 7200 when I hooked it back up. Tried all sorts of settings changes but still nothing.

So in the end went with reconfiguring my system to pretend I had two subwoofers and moved the subwoofer connection to the other subwoofer output. Subwoofer sound was back (after migrating the subwoofer 1 settings to subwoofer 2).

Only thing I tried with the receiver otherwise during all that was to unplug it for a while, which also did not bring back the original subwoofer output either.

So can one output be dead and the other still be working? I was going to try a reset, but not for a few days yet. Probably have to redo Audyssey also.

In the meantime, any other suggestions welcome on how to get the now non-functional subwoofer output to be functional again...

(2 1/2 years old... )

Edit: Apparently I was too optimistic yesterday, as today the subwoofer 2 channel was no longer functioning either. So make that both subwoofer outputs seemingly dead.
Each sub pre-out is treated as an independent pre-out, so yes, one can be working while the other is not. Refer to post 4 in the Owner's thread linked below and do a microprocessor reset to try and restore the sub pre-out functionality. If no joy, then submit for warranty repair under the 3 year warranty.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...l#post26013746
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post #5358 of 5368 Old 12-16-2019, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Each sub pre-out is treated as an independent pre-out, so yes, one can be working while the other is not. Refer to post 4 in the Owner's thread linked below and do a microprocessor reset to try and restore the sub pre-out functionality. If no joy, then submit for warranty repair under the 3 year warranty.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...l#post26013746
Silly me I got sidetracked by my Best Buy 2yr warranty that expired earlier this year.

Just saved off the config and may as well go do the reset now as well.

Thanks.

Edit: Subwoofer output still dead. And my config file didn't seem to load either. Try another browser…

Last edited by fmalczewski; 12-16-2019 at 01:32 PM.
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post #5359 of 5368 Old 12-27-2019, 05:23 PM
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So after playing around with an (apparently slightly defective) x8500h for a little while, I'm back to the x7200aw. I'm pretty sure at this point the 16 years old subwoofer itself is the culprit (either a bad switch or some component having aged itself out of spec), it sporadically did work on the 8500 but it was just as likely to not work the next time around, kind of like with the 7200 before that. My testing of the subwoofer outputs on each receiver (with a small subwoofer) seems to confirm that the outputs are still functional.

While playing around, haven't yet been able to get my Mac to upload to the 7200 a saved config.dat file I created prior to re-initializing its firmware; will try a (also pretty old) Windows 7 PC in the next few days. At this point it's running with a configuration I did manually prior to trying out the 8500. One of the benefits perhaps of doing a full re-init is the Denon AVR Remote app sprung back to life again on my iPad (I noticed last night), yay.

My new sub should be arriving within the next week, so at that point I will do a from scratch Audyssey Pro calibration and see what happens. Selected a SVS SB16-Ultra to replace the old B&W 15 incher (ASW850). I'll be getting a workout next week that's for sure, as they are both quite heavy.
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post #5360 of 5368 Old 12-27-2019, 06:49 PM
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When I had a 7200wa I had to use I think firefox to upload to config. Chrome did not like it. Maybe too many extensions or something. Firefox did it.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
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post #5361 of 5368 Old 12-27-2019, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by fmalczewski View Post
So after playing around with an (apparently slightly defective) x8500h for a little while, I'm back to the x7200aw. I'm pretty sure at this point the 16 years old subwoofer itself is the culprit (either a bad switch or some component having aged itself out of spec), it sporadically did work on the 8500 but it was just as likely to not work the next time around, kind of like with the 7200 before that. My testing of the subwoofer outputs on each receiver (with a small subwoofer) seems to confirm that the outputs are still functional.

While playing around, haven't yet been able to get my Mac to upload to the 7200 a saved config.dat file I created prior to re-initializing its firmware; will try a (also pretty old) Windows 7 PC in the next few days. At this point it's running with a configuration I did manually prior to trying out the 8500. One of the benefits perhaps of doing a full re-init is the Denon AVR Remote app sprung back to life again on my iPad (I noticed last night), yay.

My new sub should be arriving within the next week, so at that point I will do a from scratch Audyssey Pro calibration and see what happens. Selected a SVS SB16-Ultra to replace the old B&W 15 incher (ASW850). I'll be getting a workout next week that's for sure, as they are both quite heavy.
Sometimes it takes using a different browser for success; however, always a good idea to try LOADing the saved config.dat file immediately after the SAVE as the file may be corrupted and require being saved again.
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post #5362 of 5368 Old 12-28-2019, 02:43 PM
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When I had a 7200wa I had to use I think firefox to upload to config. Chrome did not like it. Maybe too many extensions or something. Firefox did it.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
I did try a number of browsers, Firefox is the one I use just about always and tried it first (with and without a few settings and/or add-ons that might have got in the way). But Opera, iCab and perhaps Safari (not sure I got to Safari) also behaved similarly, essentially timing out. I even had the firewall turned off the for a bit.

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Sometimes it takes using a different browser for success; however, always a good idea to try LOADing the saved config.dat file immediately after the SAVE as the file may be corrupted and require being saved again.
I can see how perhaps this could be the case. (I have run the SAVE functionality twice (once earlier this month, and once in September a year ago when you first showed me where it was hiding), and both times they came out 978 KB.) But I suspect it might be some firewall or port thing that the Mac may be doing that is keeping it from working. If it's a router thing, then the PC may not work either, and if it's not a router thing then I may get lucky, though that remains to be seen.

--

I'll probably mess around with it some more tomorrow.

Thanks guys.
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post #5363 of 5368 Old 01-03-2020, 04:37 PM
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It's early (sub-wise), but I did run Audyssey Pro yesterday (sadly the long usb cable I bought to run the software from a different room is not being recognized by my aged (but up to date!) Windows 7 PC any more). Contemplating clearing off some ssd space on my Mac and trying to run it from Windows 10 via boot camp but that's a story for some future day.

Off to a pretty good start, the calibration sounds decent, but the new sub is somewhat underwhelming at this point. The old one could kick some low end butt if it needed too, the new one well let's just say I hope some settings tweaks I will be trying next few days will make it work similarly. May have to try relocating it, but there's not a lot of options, it's in the same spot as the old one presently. Also it turns out the "15 inch" subwoofer cone in the old B&W sub is slightly bigger than the "16 inch" cone in the new SVS sub, fwiw ; 50% more power spec-wise with the SVS however. Also will be trying a few other movies with more bottom end to see if that helps any.

I didn't try to restore from save the old settings as per post above, so that's also something for some future day. And the iPad Denon AVR Remote app has stopped working again... it had been working prior to the Audyssey run, more head-scratching to come on that.

Edit: Well that was easy, Audyssey Pro had the sub volume way low (-5) moved it to +10 for the time being, plus per something I saw online, I decided to bump up the crossovers to 60Hz all around (might play with that again). The SVS app is nice for easily adjusting the subwoofer volume to taste also (during calibration a setting of -16 resulted in the requested/required approx 75dB), just need to stay under -10 (now set to about -20.)

Any suggestions about lowering the sub volume back some on the receiver and increasing it on the sub itself instead? Not quite enough wiggle room to keep the 7200 at -5 and the sub below -10 with the above numbers, if these end up being the close to final numbers...

Still not quite the same as the old sub at the lowest frequencies, but perhaps that might be a good thing?)

Last edited by fmalczewski; 01-03-2020 at 06:10 PM.
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post #5364 of 5368 Old 01-04-2020, 09:08 AM
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Denon AVR-X7200W 9.2/11.2ch 2014/2015 Receiver Details-

That SVS 16 ultra is a proven product.

There are lots of setup guides in the subwoofer subforums of AVSforum, so I won’t repeat it in full here. They are sticked. Ill just give you my cliff notes.

BTW, you should NOT have your AVR subwoofer channel trim at +10

It should be at -3 or lower to avoid signal clipping from the source and AVR. This allows for redirected bass from the mainspeakers crossovers at reference main listening volumes. Less than -3 is okay (-4 through -12). Greater than -3 (-2 through + 12 can lead to signal clipping).

Further adjustment should be made on your SVS plate amp.

If your Audyssey calibrates and puts subwoofer channel trim set to -12 then you have too much gain on the subwoofer plate amp. Lower it and run the calibration again. Lower it until you end somewhere (-3dB through -11.5dB)

Audyssey has a knack for making subwoofers volumes way too low for most peoples preference. Especially the type of people who pay $2k for a subwoofer (and want to hear it)

I turn my subs up about 9dB from what Auddyssey sets post calibration by turning up the plate amp gain knob, or by turning up the subwoofer channel trim — so long as you stay generally below -3dB). (Adjust to suit your own preference)
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post #5365 of 5368 Old 01-04-2020, 01:39 PM
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That's what I was kind of looking for.

Audyssey Pro came up with -16 setting on the sub to be at 75dB. Calibration came up with -5 on the receiver. That was what I started with.

SVS recommends -10 setting max (I left it at -16), and I initially came up with +10 on the Denon as a first approximation of what I may really want to be hearing (in terms of the getting the lowest bass to be present and accounted for).

I kind of figured from what I'd seen that -5 on the Denon was a lot closer to where I should be. I will turn the Denon back down to -3 tonight and play with the sub side some more (with some films that may be more suitable to set it with).

Don't think I heard much in the way of distortion/overload fwiw, just maybe missing some of the lowest frequencies that my old sub was not shy about trying to provide (and shaking thing up more in the process while it was at it). But it's still early, yesterday was the first day of feeling/sounding things out.

Edit: So I ended up with -3 on the denon and -10 on the sub. I do think I was getting a bit of overload on the denon yesterday and with these changed settings most everything seemed to be in place, aside from maybe the gut punch feeling that my old sub would sometimes provide. My test case was the Edge Of Tomorrow blu-ray.

Last edited by fmalczewski; 01-05-2020 at 12:03 AM.
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post #5366 of 5368 Old 01-06-2020, 05:30 AM
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Denon AVR-X7200W 9.2/11.2ch 2014/2015 Receiver Details-

You are gain matching here between sub and AVR. So the hard and fast -10 is generic, advice and shouldn’t be a rule on the subwoofer given your intelligence now about not taking the subwoofer trim past -3. SVS probably set that artificial limit to prevent knuckleheads who run their AVRs subwoofer channel trim too high. (IE - Maxing out the subwoofer channel trim). You are no longer that knucklehead, so you should be able to go to unity on the sub’s amp - which typically would be 0 on that type of digital negative/positive number plate amp.

You shouldn’t go above 0 though unless you know your source content well. So if you are at -10 now, and still want more, try turning the plate up towards 0 until you get what you want. You have 7 dB to play with there and by generalization thats about twice as loud. (6 dB is twice as loud by the objective numbers, but some folk say it takes more like ~10dB to subjectively seem twice as loud).

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Last edited by Archaea; 01-06-2020 at 05:33 AM.
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post #5367 of 5368 Old 01-06-2020, 11:53 AM
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I just got an email from SVS in which it was suggested staying within the range of -15 to -5. So as you say some room to play with yet on the sub itself. Haven't really heard anything rattle just yet (got rid of most of the things that rattled with the old sub), but on the other hand it can be pretty intense already, so even if things were rattling I just might not be hearing them. But yeah okay still room to move next time I find something worth experimenting with. Right now it seems to be a pretty good balance for tv and movies, maybe a dB or three shy of what the old sub may have been hitting.

With the old sub I had a lot of volume left to play with (I think it was at 8oclock for movies and 10oclock for music, so less than halfway), but that's probably due to my 7200 setting(s) being pretty high at the time (don't recall what they were and apparently I never recorded them anywhere, aside from the SAVEd off config.dat files which I can't seem to LOAD back in anyway...)
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post #5368 of 5368 Old 01-13-2020, 01:08 PM
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Does anyone know if you use the built in Pandora app on the x7200wa if the quality/bitrate improves if you have the paid Pandora subscription?
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