Marantz AV8802 13.2 XLR Pre/Pro **Official Thread** - Page 297 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8881 of 15409 Old 02-06-2016, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpco View Post
You can AirPlay audio from a Mac. If you hold down the option key while clicking the speaker icon in the menu bar (have to Show Volume in the Menu Bar in Preferences), you can select an AirPlay device for audio output.

I would run a digital optical cable to the AVR if possible.
Better yet would be to connect your Mac to the AVR using one of the AVR's HDMI inputs if your Mac has a DisplayPort or Thunderbolt output. DisplayPort and Thunderbolt to HDMI adapters are readily available.

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post #8882 of 15409 Old 02-06-2016, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fish5225 View Post
I have a blank screen on my projector during music playback from my PC by Ethernet, do I need to change a setting to get the artist info or setup menu to display? Thanks
Make sure you have "Video Conversion" set to On. That option both converts analog video to HDMI and lets the pre/pro's GUI overlay on any video signal. That should help even when the video signal is generated internally to the AVR.

Another possibility is that the AV8802 is generating a video signal that's incompatible with your projector. You might try configuring the "IP Scaler" to generate a 1080p/60 output.

See pages 207 and 208 in the AV8802's owner's manual. It's available at http://manuals.marantz.com/av8802a/na/en/

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post #8883 of 15409 Old 02-06-2016, 04:55 PM
 
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Not sure if i got this right, that translation in post above here was a bit hard to follow, but if you listened to a DTS track for Neural:X, and a DOLBY track for DSU, you are not just comparing two upmixers, but also two soundmixes, right?
http://www.highfidelityreview.com/je...dvd-audio.html

The DVD-Video has a DD 5.1 and dts 5.1 audio tracks, and stereo. It's a CD/DVD-V package...and I believe Hugo used the DVD-Video disc for his review,
because that's the only disc that contains both DD and dts audio soundtracks. ...Lossy audio (compressed).

It also comes as a DVD-Audio with higher audio resolution...see link above, but not the disc Hugo used or he would have mentioned.

Now, for his comparison, to be truly fair, we don't know if both DD and dts audio mixes are exactly the same.
Hugo might shade some light, if he knows for sure.

But, the comparisons you made yourself, Nalleh, are on the same pedestal/footing themselves...fair and equal...because you use the multichannel LPCM audio for both up-mixers. There is no bias, no prejudice, no misconception, no nothing else than fair, just, objective evaluation.

Hugo's two short reviews (posts - messages) are very different, and very brief too, but still very appreciated nonetheless, as that was exactly what I was requesting...more reviews on DTS Neural:X for multichannel music listening. ...More to come hopefully, from Hugo and more members. ...Nalleh included.

And by the way, that Jean-Michel Jarre - Aero DVD-Video is a PAL format, so it won't play on our NTSC system...unless you have some Universal players (BR/DVD) that can play PAL DVD-V discs (Oppo can, and few more players).

http://www.amazon.com/Aero-Jean-Mich.../dp/B0002IVMJ8

But methinks that the DVD-Audio version would be much much better...the one to truly get, in high resolution audio 96/24...multichannel (1st link). Lossless.

________

It's fair in the three new audio codecs to read all pros and cons from various observers.
Setting the Blu-ray player's HDMI Audio Out to "LPCM" to evaluate the three up-mixers is the best way to do it, in my calculated and sincere opinion.

And some stereo music (eg.; Jazz, Blues), I believe, is prudent to not over-exaggerated over eleven speakers...two will do just fine, with perhaps a little ambiance in the two main surrounds, but subtle.

Stereo Electronica, New Age, Psychedelic (Pink Floyd, Yes, Tangerine Dream) music with DSU, dts Neural:X and Auro-Matic 2D...yes; I'm sure it's cool fun.

Last edited by NorthSky; 02-07-2016 at 11:01 AM. Reason: ... added up
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post #8884 of 15409 Old 02-06-2016, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Better yet would be to connect your Mac to the AVR using one of the AVR's HDMI inputs if your Mac has a DisplayPort or Thunderbolt output. DisplayPort and Thunderbolt to HDMI adapters are readily available.
That will work, for sure. I have an older Mac Mini hooked up digital optical audio to the AVR and DisplayPort to DVI to HDMI running right to the display. I use the Remote app to control music and hardly ever run the Mac on the display.
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post #8885 of 15409 Old 02-06-2016, 09:52 PM
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Ethernet Switching Hub

This is not a major issue, but I have just upgraded from the 8801 to the 8802A. The 8801 had a 4 port Ethernet switching hub, but the 8802A has only a single Ethernet input. I've had to add a larger external Ethernet switch to handle all my Ethernet devices.

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post #8886 of 15409 Old 02-06-2016, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Cruce View Post
This is not a major issue, but I have just upgraded from the 8801 to the 8802A. The 8801 had a 4 port Ethernet switching hub, but the 8802A has only a single Ethernet input. I've had to add a larger external Ethernet switch to handle all my Ethernet devices.

I didn't mind the 4 port Ethernet on the Marantz 8801 I wish they kept it for the 8802A.


Frank
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post #8887 of 15409 Old 02-06-2016, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTENGST View Post
My Roku 4 still has the handshake issue after the DTS:X update!
Not what I wanted to see. After I kicked my update off, I came in here primarily to see if the Roku 4 issue was fixed. That's more important to me than DTSX at this point.
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post #8888 of 15409 Old 02-06-2016, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnedator View Post
Not what I wanted to see. After I kicked my update off, I came in here primarily to see if the Roku 4 issue was fixed. That's more important to me than DTSX at this point.
If you go over to the Roku forum you will see that their lastest update (firmware 8901) was supposed to deal with the Denon/Marantz handshake issue.
I found this in the AVSForum Roku thread "Just did a search for the firmware update 8901 over at Roku's forum and its suppost to address handshake issues with Denon/Marantz, battery, and wakeup issues."

~ Mike
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post #8889 of 15409 Old 02-06-2016, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65Goat View Post
If you go over to the Roku forum you will see that their lastest update (firmware 8901) was supposed to deal with the Denon/Marantz handshake issue.
I found this in the AVSForum Roku thread "Just did a search for the firmware update 8901 over at Roku's forum and its suppost to address handshake issues with Denon/Marantz, battery, and wakeup issues."

~ Mike
I saw that myself, after I posted in here. It either hasn't fixed it, or mine didn't auto download it, because right before watching Spectre a little while ago, I tried connecting to the Roku and it wouldn't display. I'm now almost done with the 8802 upgrade. IF that doesn't work, I'll have to pull the rack out and connect the Roku directly to the projector to kick of the update manually.

Hopefully, one way or another, I'll finally be able to use my Roku in the theater later tonight.
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post #8890 of 15409 Old 02-07-2016, 12:48 AM
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Marantz AV8802 13.2 XLR Pre/Pro **Official Thread**

Watched Antman today with neural:X not too bad. Still I couldn't verify is better than DSU.


Frank

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Last edited by Franin; 02-07-2016 at 12:57 AM.
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post #8891 of 15409 Old 02-07-2016, 02:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Bonjour Keith,

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Merci bien, Hugo!

J'entends que nos 'petits oignons' deviendront bientot nos 'petits ognons' et que le circonflexe est mort Vive le circonflexe!
and yes, loosing the sight of the "i" and of the 3 points "circonflexe"... is a real pity...

H.
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post #8892 of 15409 Old 02-07-2016, 02:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Bob,

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Those quotes in magenta are from Hugo's own description...to clarify. I posted them in their less than perfect English translation.

But it would be my pleasure, and Hugo's pleasure I'm certain; to give a better translation (as I am French too - French Canadian though, with slight variations from France)...if some members have precise questions; me into translation, and Hugo from direct audio experience.
Me I'm just a learner @ this time in point. I try to ask the right questions, and reading the right answers. ...With this baggage I'll make the right decisions in time...that I believe would suit me.

It's all about exploring...for the film mixers and for the listeners (us). People try various favorites (music & movie), and experiment, observe, listen to what the various up-mixers do with certain material, and compare (multichannel LPCM). It's all fascinating, very.
No problem concerning the precise translation, as my opinion that the DTS:X update just made on the 8802 didn't precisely convince me, can be easily understood.

Now as 8802(A) users, we are today forced to apply DTS Neural X on all DTS bitstreamed tracks; so in my opinion, it would be a nice and very appreciated gesture coming from D&M, if they could quickly resolve the actual limitation and enable the use of DSU on bitstreamed DTS tracks.

Hugo
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post #8893 of 15409 Old 02-07-2016, 02:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Nalleh,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Not sure if i got this right, that translation in post above here was a bit hard to follow, but if you listened to a DTS track for Neural:X, and a DOLBY track for DSU, you are not just comparing two upmixers, but also two soundmixes, right?
This is why in the feed-back, it is indicated that objectively one couldn't be totally sure if all the difference was coming only from the DTS Neural X and DSU processings, as an unknown part, could also be coming from the DTS/DD mixing difference...

But it nevertheless remains that - in my opinion -, there can be a perceived difference between the DTS Neural X & DSU processings... in favor of DSU.

Hugo
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post #8894 of 15409 Old 02-07-2016, 05:44 AM
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Your HT set-up

[QUOTE=captainbrent;41084770]Firstly, mine isn't an upgraded unit as it is an 8802A, purchased new.

Good morning CaptainBrent

I just had to send you a message, as my speakers are exactly the same as yours but I have the newer cc, the bigger one.

I have a 7.4.4 set-up as I have now put in 4 ceiling speakers to get the Atmos and DTS:X

I am using a Classé 5300 (5 X 300) for my centre, FL, FR, and rears.

I have a new Emotiva 7-channel for my 2 sides + 4 ceiling.

I, therefore, have 1 channel from the Emotiva that I am not using.

My problem is that I have difficulty hearing the centre channel on a number of ocassions and have been thinking on putting in another centre channel in the centre height, running it from the spare Emotiva channel, and having 2 centre channels to help me hear a little better.

My HT room is 13' X 22' X about 8.5' high.

Hoping to hear from you as to your HT and how you like your sound.

Stephen Polevoy
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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post #8895 of 15409 Old 02-07-2016, 05:47 AM
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I still cannot save my configuration. I have IP Control set to OFF in Standby but cannot get a save in either Firefox or IE. I keep getting a message "save not complete". Is there anything else I should do?
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post #8896 of 15409 Old 02-07-2016, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by steady teddy View Post
I still cannot save my configuration. I have IP Control set to OFF in Standby but cannot get a save in either Firefox or IE. I keep getting a message "save not complete". Is there anything else I should do?
Try using Chrome instead.
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post #8897 of 15409 Old 02-07-2016, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnedator View Post
I saw that myself, after I posted in here. It either hasn't fixed it, or mine didn't auto download it, because right before watching Spectre a little while ago, I tried connecting to the Roku and it wouldn't display. I'm now almost done with the 8802 upgrade. IF that doesn't work, I'll have to pull the rack out and connect the Roku directly to the projector to kick of the update manually.

Hopefully, one way or another, I'll finally be able to use my Roku in the theater later tonight.
My Roku 4 now works thru the Marantz after the DTS:X upgrade. It wasn't working initially but all of the sudden it started to work. It could be Roku updated their firmware after I updated the Marantz. Good Luck!
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post #8898 of 15409 Old 02-07-2016, 08:27 AM
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Try using Chrome instead.
That worked, thanks.
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post #8899 of 15409 Old 02-07-2016, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtdking View Post
Isn't AirPlay a ipad, iPhone and iPod thing? I don't have Airplay on my IMac?
If you use iTunes you're good to go...

You can control it from an iPhone via the "Remote" app.
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post #8900 of 15409 Old 02-07-2016, 10:36 AM
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DTS:X Issues and comments..

I have a Denon AVR-X7200WA... In regards to the functionality of DTS:X/Neural:X I think it should be identical to the 8802A.

I have found some issues.

I also have some comments about Neural:X as an upmixer of 2 channel sources.

I spend a little time today with @sdurani and @Scott Simonian .... they can chime in if they want.

Let me state my setup. I have a Denon X7200. My LCR and LR RR are fed via an Emotive XPA-5. I have Pioneer Dolby Enabled Spearers for my L, R and LS, RS... the up firing Atmos speakers are fed by the AVR.. This allows me to quickly turn off my mains and only hear what is coming from the overheads/tops/heights... even though they aren't really heights, I can easily change the AVR to send those signals to those speakers. Also, because of the way the Denon assigns outputs, the Surround Dolby Speakers turn into wides when I change the Denon setup to 9.1 with no overheads... so this has allowed me to try and figure out what is feeding the wides.

But my initial setup is 9.1 (5 + 4 Dolby Speakers...)

No EQ/Room Correction, speakers SPL"d via SPL meter..

I also need to do some tests having the AVR setup in 7.1.4.. so the following conclusions, and I think I found some bugs, might disappear when I do so..

This is only a preliminary report...

I have a copy of the 2016 DTS DEMO DISC.... which has an 11.1 channel channel ID track... L, C, R, LSS, RSS, LBS, RBS, FLH, FRH, LBH and RBH identifiers... this is what I used for many of these observations.

1. WIDES...

When playing back DTS:X tracks, and the Neural:X Surround Parameter turned "Off"... the wides are fed copies of the respective side surround information.

When playing DTS:X tracks, and the Neural:X is turned "On" it appears the wides are fed a center extraction from the LF and LSS (same for the right side...)

I can only assume that when objects pass through they will do so on top of the above mentioned audio...

The wides are constantly engaged....

2. Rendering Issues..

Playing the same ID track, the only correct behavior seems to occur when setting the AVR to heights FH and RH's (front and rear...)

When you setup the AVR for TF and TR, (wither overheads or Dolby Enabled) the AVR MULT's the audio for the RH signal to both speakers at once.. i.e. both the L and R rear heights come out of both TR speakers.

To be more clear the channel ID dialog "Left Rear Height" comes out of both the TRL and TRR speakers.. same for "Right Rear Height..."

This obviously is a bug.. as many are reporting substantial overhead activity with this codec, it could easily be tracked to this, and not the mix.

3. Neural:X - with two channel sources.

I have not tested Neural:X with multichannel sources.

Only 2 channel.. both through AirPlay or through my Apple TV via HDMI….

The following tracks were used to listen… No Doubt “Hella Good,” Evanescence “Wake Me Up When You’re Sober,” Lyle Lovett “I’ve Been To Memphis” and others.

First I listened in stereo… Sanjay and Scott came by later and we repeated the same tracks…

Then I switched to DSU… I’m familiar with that using these songs… on No Doubt it does a very good job of steering the panning vocals and synths… the song also has a very present hi-hat…. that was squarely in the center as were most of the other parts of the drum kit..

Switching to Neural:X… My first impression was that something was wrong. The hi-hat last it’s attack, and a bunch of it seemed to be pulled back into the surrounds… Sanjay noticed most of the attack/pluck on the moving bass line was missing… it seemed to homogenize the track.

To my ears, it felt like a blanket was thrown on the mix… it seems to be definitely more “immersive” and “domed….” But to my ears it was lacking a great deal of detail and life…

There also seemed to be times when the steering was creating “phasing” artifacts.. it had a bit of a processed sound to it…

Even more concerning, however, was there were several times where the center channel started to distort and break up… this was really bad.. it immediately went away when switching to Dolby Surround...

This was a big problem in my system.. it needs more examination. I might have a center channel on the edge of being bad, or a failing amp channel... however, it was only an issue with Neural:X at moderate volume.

I tested a couple with 12 string guitars and the upper strings seemed to recede into the muck…

But again, it was most early obvious on hit hat’s and snares.. IMO came across as attenuated and rolled off..

Just so I can get more feedback from others, I am going to cross post this in the X7200 and DTS threads....
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post #8901 of 15409 Old 02-07-2016, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal camper View Post
My problem is that I have difficulty hearing the centre channel on a number of ocassions

Hoping to hear from you as to your HT and how you like your sound.
Hi Stephen,

Nice system, I'm sure that you'll enjoy it!

Firstly, my room is not dedicated and is also my living room. I am single and can do with it what I would like, so, it is well treated with bass (tri) traps, absorption and diffusion and I have worked on speaker/sub placement, as best I can, within the limitations that I have. My room is a bit smaller than yours and my MLP is about 8', directly in front of my center. I am very satisfied with my room and in my opinion (and many others), my system sounds fantastic.

I really can't imagine that you would need another center channel, especially with your XXL! I am coming from Paradigm Studio (V5) series speakers and I had the CC-690 center, which is a monster, and my XL absolutely blows it out of the water. I am very happy with it and do not feel the need to move to the new XXL. It sounds wonderful and I have no problem, ever hearing it. In saying that, I did bump it up a couple of db though (globally).

You did mention that you are having trouble hearing your center occasionally so, does this mean that you also don't have a problem hearing your center, on other occasions, using the same settings? If so, this would indicate to me, that it might be differences with the source material. Some material will use the center more than others, and some sources may not use the center much, if at all. If you can hear the center with some sources and not others, you can bump up the center for those ones that are hard to hear, on the fly, by pressing 'Option' on the remote, then the up/down buttons to select 'Channel Level Adjust', then the up/down buttons to select the center channel, then the left/right buttons to adjust the volume. Keep in mind that this new volume level will be saved for that input so, you might have to readjust to the desired levels for sources where the center is not hard to hear.

Also, lets talk placement. Is your center on a stand, or on top of a cabinet, or inside a cabinet? Quite often the stands or cabinets are quite a bit lower than ear level so, it is important that the center be angled up towards the ear level, of the MLP. My center sits on top of a cabinet and I use a pair of these: http://www.auralex.com/product/mopad-mopad-xl/ to not only raise it and angle the center up to ear level, they do a nice job of decoupling the speaker from the cabinet. If your center is inside a cabinet, which is far from ideal, make sure that you have, at the least, a couple of inches of clearance, all around. For any of these options, make sure that the front face of the speaker, is brought all the way out to the very edge of the cabinet, or stand.

I hope that some of these suggestions will help out some!

Cheers

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post #8902 of 15409 Old 02-07-2016, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
I have a Denon AVR-X7200WA... In regards to the functionality of DTS:X/Neural:X I think it should be identical to the 8802A.

I have found some issues.

I also have some comments about Neural:X as an upmixer of 2 channel sources.

I spend a little time today with @sdurani and @Scott Simonian .... they can chime in if they want.

Let me state my setup. I have a Denon X7200. My LCR and LR RR are fed via an Emotive XPA-5. I have Pioneer Dolby Enabled Spearers for my L, R and LS, RS... the up firing Atmos speakers are fed by the AVR.. This allows me to quickly turn off my mains and only hear what is coming from the overheads/tops/heights... even though they aren't really heights, I can easily change the AVR to send those signals to those speakers. Also, because of the way the Denon assigns outputs, the Surround Dolby Speakers turn into wides when I change the Denon setup to 9.1 with no overheads... so this has allowed me to try and figure out what is feeding the wides.

But my initial setup is 9.1 (5 + 4 Dolby Speakers...)

No EQ/Room Correction, speakers SPL"d via SPL meter..

I also need to do some tests having the AVR setup in 7.1.4.. so the following conclusions, and I think I found some bugs, might disappear when I do so..

This is only a preliminary report...

I have a copy of the 2016 DTS DEMO DISC.... which has an 11.1 channel channel ID track... L, C, R, LSS, RSS, LBS, RBS, FLH, FRH, LBH and RBH identifiers... this is what I used for many of these observations.

1. WIDES...

When playing back DTS:X tracks, and the Neural:X Surround Parameter turned "Off"... the wides are fed copies of the respective side surround information.

When playing DTS:X tracks, and the Neural:X is turned "On" it appears the wides are fed a center extraction from the LF and LSS (same for the right side...)

I can only assume that when objects pass through they will do so on top of the above mentioned audio...

The wides are constantly engaged....

2. Rendering Issues..

Playing the same ID track, the only correct behavior seems to occur when setting the AVR to heights FH and RH's (front and rear...)

When you setup the AVR for TF and TR, (wither overheads or Dolby Enabled) the AVR MULT's the audio for the RH signal to both speakers at once.. i.e. both the L and R rear heights come out of both TR speakers.

To be more clear the channel ID dialog "Left Rear Height" comes out of both the TRL and TRR speakers.. same for "Right Rear Height..."

This obviously is a bug.. as many are reporting substantial overhead activity with this codec, it could easily be tracked to this, and not the mix.

3. Neural:X - with two channel sources.

I have not tested Neural:X with multichannel sources.

Only 2 channel.. both through AirPlay or through my Apple TV via HDMI….

The following tracks were used to listen… No Doubt “Hella Good,” Evanescence “Wake Me Up When You’re Sober,” Lyle Lovett “I’ve Been To Memphis” and others.

First I listened in stereo… Sanjay and Scott came by later and we repeated the same tracks…

Then I switched to DSU… I’m familiar with that using these songs… on No Doubt it does a very good job of steering the panning vocals and synths… the song also has a very present hi-hat…. that was squarely in the center as were most of the other parts of the drum kit..

Switching to Neural:X… My first impression was that something was wrong. The hi-hat last it’s attack, and a bunch of it seemed to be pulled back into the surrounds… Sanjay noticed most of the attack/pluck on the moving bass line was missing… it seemed to homogenize the track.

To my ears, it felt like a blanket was thrown on the mix… it seems to be definitely more “immersive” and “domed….” But to my ears it was lacking a great deal of detail and life…

There also seemed to be times when the steering was creating “phasing” artifacts.. it had a bit of a processed sound to it…

Even more concerning, however, was there were several times where the center channel started to distort and break up… this was really bad.. it immediately went away when switching to Dolby Surround...

This was a big problem in my system.. it needs more examination. I might have a center channel on the edge of being bad, or a failing amp channel... however, it was only an issue with Neural:X at moderate volume.

I tested a couple with 12 string guitars and the upper strings seemed to recede into the muck…

But again, it was most early obvious on hit hat’s and snares.. IMO came across as attenuated and rolled off..

Just so I can get more feedback from others, I am going to cross post this in the X7200 and DTS threads....
Thanks for posting your findings. Very interesting. Sounds like DTS might need to "tweak" their algorithm quite a bit
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post #8903 of 15409 Old 02-07-2016, 10:50 AM
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Thanks for posting your findings. Very interesting. Sounds like DTS might need to "tweak" their algorithm quite a bit
I'd love it if you and others can do some music tests..
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post #8904 of 15409 Old 02-07-2016, 10:51 AM
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I have a Denon AVR-X7200WA... In regards to the functionality of DTS:X/Neural:X I think it should be identical to the 8802A.

I have found some issues.

I also have some comments about Neural:X as an upmixer of 2 channel sources.

I spend a little time today with @sdurani and @Scott Simonian .... they can chime in if they want.

Let me state my setup. I have a Denon X7200. My LCR and LR RR are fed via an Emotive XPA-5. I have Pioneer Dolby Enabled Spearers for my L, R and LS, RS... the up firing Atmos speakers are fed by the AVR.. This allows me to quickly turn off my mains and only hear what is coming from the overheads/tops/heights... even though they aren't really heights, I can easily change the AVR to send those signals to those speakers. Also, because of the way the Denon assigns outputs, the Surround Dolby Speakers turn into wides when I change the Denon setup to 9.1 with no overheads... so this has allowed me to try and figure out what is feeding the wides.

But my initial setup is 9.1 (5 + 4 Dolby Speakers...)

No EQ/Room Correction, speakers SPL"d via SPL meter..

I also need to do some tests having the AVR setup in 7.1.4.. so the following conclusions, and I think I found some bugs, might disappear when I do so..

This is only a preliminary report...

I have a copy of the 2016 DTS DEMO DISC.... which has an 11.1 channel channel ID track... L, C, R, LSS, RSS, LBS, RBS, FLH, FRH, LBH and RBH identifiers... this is what I used for many of these observations.

1. WIDES...

When playing back DTS:X tracks, and the Neural:X Surround Parameter turned "Off"... the wides are fed copies of the respective side surround information.

When playing DTS:X tracks, and the Neural:X is turned "On" it appears the wides are fed a center extraction from the LF and LSS (same for the right side...)

I can only assume that when objects pass through they will do so on top of the above mentioned audio...

The wides are constantly engaged....

2. Rendering Issues..

Playing the same ID track, the only correct behavior seems to occur when setting the AVR to heights FH and RH's (front and rear...)

When you setup the AVR for TF and TR, (wither overheads or Dolby Enabled) the AVR MULT's the audio for the RH signal to both speakers at once.. i.e. both the L and R rear heights come out of both TR speakers.

To be more clear the channel ID dialog "Left Rear Height" comes out of both the TRL and TRR speakers.. same for "Right Rear Height..."

This obviously is a bug.. as many are reporting substantial overhead activity with this codec, it could easily be tracked to this, and not the mix.

3. Neural:X - with two channel sources.

I have not tested Neural:X with multichannel sources.

Only 2 channel.. both through AirPlay or through my Apple TV via HDMI….

The following tracks were used to listen… No Doubt “Hella Good,” Evanescence “Wake Me Up When You’re Sober,” Lyle Lovett “I’ve Been To Memphis” and others.

First I listened in stereo… Sanjay and Scott came by later and we repeated the same tracks…

Then I switched to DSU… I’m familiar with that using these songs… on No Doubt it does a very good job of steering the panning vocals and synths… the song also has a very present hi-hat…. that was squarely in the center as were most of the other parts of the drum kit..

Switching to Neural:X… My first impression was that something was wrong. The hi-hat last it’s attack, and a bunch of it seemed to be pulled back into the surrounds… Sanjay noticed most of the attack/pluck on the moving bass line was missing… it seemed to homogenize the track.

To my ears, it felt like a blanket was thrown on the mix… it seems to be definitely more “immersive” and “domed….” But to my ears it was lacking a great deal of detail and life…

There also seemed to be times when the steering was creating “phasing” artifacts.. it had a bit of a processed sound to it…

Even more concerning, however, was there were several times where the center channel started to distort and break up… this was really bad.. it immediately went away when switching to Dolby Surround...

This was a big problem in my system.. it needs more examination. I might have a center channel on the edge of being bad, or a failing amp channel... however, it was only an issue with Neural:X at moderate volume.

I tested a couple with 12 string guitars and the upper strings seemed to recede into the muck…

But again, it was most early obvious on hit hat’s and snares.. IMO came across as attenuated and rolled off..

Just so I can get more feedback from others, I am going to cross post this in the X7200 and DTS threads....
Was all of this done with Dolby Enabled speakers? I wonder if that has something to do with rendering issues.

This is not the first "distorted center" report on here. Something must be wrong there.
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Hi Bob,

No problem concerning the precise translation, as my opinion that the DTS:X update just made on the 8802 didn't precisely convince me, can be easily understood.

Now as 8802(A) users, we are today forced to apply DTS Neural X on all DTS bitstreamed tracks; so in my opinion, it would be a nice and very appreciated gesture coming from D&M, if they could quickly resolve the actual limitation and enable the use of DSU on bitstreamed DTS tracks.

Hugo
Hi Hugo,

The translation is fair enough...yes, I agree; it translates the main message/essence.

I understand your point on the DSU/Neural:X criss cross limitation...as opposed to what was possible before between Dolby ProLogicIIx (z) and dts Neo:6 (X). ...Not the end of the world though...if the two up-mixers have their own strength. ...And @ worst we can set our BR players to output LPCM audio out from its HDMI.
I don't see this as a big deal @ all for most, the majority of customers.

And last, I encourage you to explore further the possibilities with dts Neural:X for multichannel music using hybrid multichannel SACDs, and hi-res multichannel DVD-Audio and Blu-ray Audio discs.
...Also, the appropriate stereo music material; genre that most likely can benefit.
...And for movies, more samples...like a dozen good ones, eg.: Tron Legacy, Oblivion, The Book of Eli, Big Hero 6, Oz the Great and Powerful, Fury, Interstellar, 300, Sin City (1 & 2), LOTR trilogy, The Hobbit trilogy, Harry Potter series, X-Men series, Predator series, Matrix series, Alien series, ...

Keep up the good work...in informing us. - Merci mon ami; j'ai beaucoup de respect pour toi. - Bob
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post #8906 of 15409 Old 02-07-2016, 10:56 AM
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Was all of this done with Dolby Enabled speakers? I wonder if that has something to do with rendering issues.

This is not the first "distorted center" report on here. Something must be wrong there.
No... both DE and Tops..
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post #8907 of 15409 Old 02-07-2016, 11:24 AM
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No... both DE and Tops..
But heights setting rendered properly?

I'm a Yamaha owner, so I can't test anything now. Another roadblock if DTS:X and Atmos can't both be optimized on the same settings. Hopefully just early adoption pains that they'll get through.
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post #8908 of 15409 Old 02-07-2016, 11:32 AM
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But heights setting rendered properly?

I'm a Yamaha owner, so I can't test anything now. Another roadblock if DTS:X and Atmos can't both be optimized on the same settings. Hopefully just early adoption pains that they'll get through.
That is correct.. setting them as Heights seems to work as intended..
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post #8909 of 15409 Old 02-07-2016, 11:49 AM
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I'd love it if you and others can do some music tests..
I've found the same issues with DTS X neural and must admit to not trying a native mix yet but my early observations are exactly what you guys heard and this applies to movies as well. Center channel distortion, far to much of the sound field to the rear channels(sounds like Audyssey's Dynamic Eq applied as the boost is way to much) along with the blanketed muffled sound at times. DSU's center image is far better defined and stay's put regardless of movies or music and turns the room into a space with out border's and makes it extremely difficult to localize where sounds originate from (I love this) with DTS X I literally tell where my speakers or placed and the room severely shrinks in size and at first while this may be great it quickly loses its appeal. I had a positive experience with Tron Legacy but did notice a bit of clipping but I already new this track did so and paid no attention to it,however last night I watched The Lord of the Rings "Fellowship" and was very disappointed and at that moment wanted DSU back. I did give Steely Dan's "Gaucho" a spin (DTS version) which does place a voices from the chorus in the rear 5.1 mix and noticed it duplicated to the height channels as well, not bad and most of the souldfields integrity remained intact and the overall experience was good. If there is indeed something amiss I hope it will be addressed. One point in DSU's favor after just about every movie I upmixed it's hasn't done any harm and only made my legacy collection shine!

I know I previously posted I wouldn't comment on the two formats but its best to get this out there as it could be a potential problem that's needs to be addressed
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post #8910 of 15409 Old 02-07-2016, 12:02 PM
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Ah, so the X isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread.

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