Marantz AV8802 13.2 XLR Pre/Pro **Official Thread** - Page 461 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13801 of 15369 Old 07-01-2017, 03:15 PM
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So figured what the problem is, it is the 12v trigger but not on the 8802a. The problem is the 12v trigger on one of my Rotel amps the RMB-1565. The trigger is not broken just slower than the trigger on my Rotel RMB-1575. So I switched the daisy chain around on my Rotel amps and have the slower Rotel amp the 1565 connected to the 8802a and have the 1575 connected the the 1565. With the 1565 be the slower amp I get about a 6sec delay for both amps to turn on and now I no longer have an issues with everything coming on to fast.
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post #13802 of 15369 Old 07-01-2017, 11:25 PM
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Because 12V triggers are been used mostly for turning on power amps remotely it is not uncommon, that a certain delay in switching response is visible and to be expected. This will spread turn on peak amperage over a larger time window and keeps power line fuses from failing repeatedly.
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post #13803 of 15369 Old 07-02-2017, 05:59 AM
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Helped out a friend today with an audyssey pro calibration of his marantz,







his calibration prior was with the cardboard rocket and plastic fantastic mic. he has long been wanting to get this done, and so good to finally do for him. was pretty pleased with the result. and it was a very tidy result ! Have absolutely no doubt in our mind the better quality of calibrated mic and capabilities of the pro calibration adding well to the end result.

he was previously a onkyo integra owner....and have no doubt their dumping of audyssey was one of his reasons for moving to marantz. and there is the attraction of pro calibration ability of the marantz which he has been asking me to do since getting the unit. Its something I think many moved have across to marantz for and hence why I hope its not something just forgotten along the way. It will indeed be such a shame that while we can achieve a good pro calibration with decent calibrated mic with our marantz units now that in the future some time its something that may not be possible ...and we have to resort to uncalibrated plastic mic as a system. the new ap and all that is all good and am sure will be welcomed by many but gee i do hope marantz keeps in mind that accuracy of calibration is also an important aspect when you are talking multi thousand dollar flagship av processing units.

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post #13804 of 15369 Old 07-02-2017, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave-T View Post
How many of you guys use the 12v trigger on the 8802a? I use one of the triggers and connect to my Rotel RMB 1575 and use a second mono cord daisy chained to my other Rotel amp a 1565. I think my amps may be turning on to quick and need a delay between the 8802a turning on, then the 1575 followed by the 1565. Is there a way to initiate a delay between amps turning on? If you do not use The 12v trigger how are you turning on your amps?Thanks for any input or help.
I use the trigger to power on and off 3 amps, Atl AT3000, Emotiva XPA-5 and an Anthem MCA-50. I have them on a delay so they power on one after the other with no problems. The reverse also works the same way. I wasn't aware of anyone having any issues but with electronics anything is possible
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post #13805 of 15369 Old 07-03-2017, 08:13 AM
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Below is a link to a youtube video I made to explain my problem I think I am having. When I turn off my Marantz 8802a which has my Rotel RMB-175 connected 12v and daisy chained to the RMB 1575 is a RMB1565. The RMB 1565 take about longer than 3-4 seconds to turn off the amp. Is the delay normal or do I have a possible amp issue, or 12v trigger issue on the RMB 1565 or a relay issue on the RMB 1565? If there is a problem how do I fix it.

Thank you for any help or insight,

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post #13806 of 15369 Old 07-03-2017, 02:54 PM
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looks fine to me Dave

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post #13807 of 15369 Old 07-03-2017, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post
Helped out a friend today with an audyssey pro calibration of his marantz,

~
his calibration prior was with the cardboard rocket and plastic fantastic mic. he has long been wanting to get this done, and so good to finally do for him. was pretty pleased with the result. and it was a very tidy result ! Have absolutely no doubt in our mind the better quality of calibrated mic and capabilities of the pro calibration adding well to the end result.

he was previously a onkyo integra owner....and have no doubt their dumping of audyssey was one of his reasons for moving to marantz. and there is the attraction of pro calibration ability of the marantz which he has been asking me to do since getting the unit. Its something I think many moved have across to marantz for and hence why I hope its not something just forgotten along the way. It will indeed be such a shame that while we can achieve a good pro calibration with decent calibrated mic with our marantz units now that in the future some time its something that may not be possible ...and we have to resort to uncalibrated plastic mic as a system. the new ap and all that is all good and am sure will be welcomed by many but gee i do hope marantz keeps in mind that accuracy of calibration is also an important aspect when you are talking multi thousand dollar flagship av processing units.
friend of mine dropped me a line to say even with everyday TV his wife has noticed the punchy improvement and improvement of bass.

and below is what he has posted,

"Update:
@ al came over yesterday with his Audyssey Pro calibration kit. As the installer, he had to buy a license for me which cost just under AUD$200. The improvement was quite dramatic in punch and tightening up the bass in the room. Vocal clarity was also excellent post calibration and when we put on the 4K Earth II doco we both ended up watching probably 20 minutes of it. The sounds of the forest were very life like in a 3D soundstage for a 7.2 set up and speakers have now basically disappeared.

Very happy with the result and in debt to Al for his help. It is a bit of a slow process, probably not helped by neither of us having a decent Windows laptop, we struggled on with Al's ancient netbook but got the job down in around 2 hours, including much chatting, 2 coffees and 1 beer each."

http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topi...omment=1868630

this really was a good improvement guys... this is a small investment for my friend at a good outcome ! I essentially brought along an audyssey kit comprising calibrated mic and stand and provided good noticeable gains over the marantz supplied plastic mic and cardboard rocket he had been using previously.

I too experienced the seamless sound stage of the planet earth it created like you really were in that forest. and the opening of deadpool we watched afterwards was punchy and dynamic...and yet controlled and with vocals at all times completely discernible very pleased myself of the outcome. the guy has put a bit of effort in the room with speaker locations and some room treatments and great to see the kind of benefit a good quality calibrated mic in the audyssey kit can bring on top of all that ....
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post #13808 of 15369 Old 07-03-2017, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by alebonau View Post
I essentially brought along an audyssey kit comprising calibrated mic and stand and provided good noticeable gains over the marantz supplied plastic mic and cardboard rocket he had been using previously.
Keep in mind that usage of the "cardboard rocket stand" isn't mandated by Audyssey or Marantz. The user is free to use a proper mic stand with it instead, which could yield a result that's quite a bit closer to an Audyssey Pro calibration. The other thing to keep in mind is the software side of the Audyssey Pro calibration that allows more control over the end result; if that functionality were available with the "cheap" mic, it also might make a surprising difference. Hence, the result using the new app with the standard plastic mic AND a proper mic stand might give a pretty darn good result in the end.

It kind of feels like now that Marantz has said they'll support Dolby Vision with a firmware update for the 8802 some people feel they need something new to bitch about. But what's being discussed (err, bitched about) here in regards to Audyssey Pro going away really belongs in the anticipation thread for the 8802's successor as it's off topic here - Marantz isn't going to stop allowing you to use your Pro kit with your existing 8802.
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post #13809 of 15369 Old 07-04-2017, 04:31 AM
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looks fine to me Dave
Thank you
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post #13810 of 15369 Old 07-04-2017, 05:57 AM
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Thank you
could be related to how much capacitance on board dave. at the friends i was calibrating the other day, one of his subs is a large svs. and we power cycled it as i wanted to make sure it was on. well switching it off the LED still glows. so we pulled the plug on it... the LED just kept on .... glowing even after not plugged into anything hehe after a while we decided to just plug it in and switch it on... must be a lot of charge its capacitors are holding even when switched off. yours probably the same and takes a few seconds to drain to earth and quite likely why both amps take different times....
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post #13811 of 15369 Old 07-04-2017, 11:08 AM
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could be related to how much capacitance on board dave. at the friends i was calibrating the other day, one of his subs is a large svs. and we power cycled it as i wanted to make sure it was on. well switching it off the LED still glows. so we pulled the plug on it... the LED just kept on .... glowing even after not plugged into anything hehe after a while we decided to just plug it in and switch it on... must be a lot of charge its capacitors are holding even when switched off. yours probably the same and takes a few seconds to drain to earth and quite likely why both amps take different times....
That makes complete sense and happens with the amp. I pulled the power cord, turned off the 12v trigger and then plugged the power cord back into the amp and turned the amp on and then turned the amp off. When turning the amp off it took a good 10 -15 for the red led to turn off. By disengaging the 12v trigger I was able to at least figure out that the amp was working correctly because if it was damaged the red light would have stayed on meaning it was in safety mode and that did not happen. Thank you so much for explaining again what you stated makes complete sense.

Thanks,

dave
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post #13812 of 15369 Old 07-05-2017, 05:43 AM
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Is there a 2 way remote setting on the 8802. If so where is it.

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post #13813 of 15369 Old 07-06-2017, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by alebonau View Post
Helped out a friend today with an audyssey pro calibration of his marantz,

his calibration prior was with the cardboard rocket and plastic fantastic mic. he has long been wanting to get this done, and so good to finally do for him. was pretty pleased with the result. and it was a very tidy result ! Have absolutely no doubt in our mind the better quality of calibrated mic and capabilities of the pro calibration adding well to the end result.

he was previously a onkyo integra owner....and have no doubt their dumping of audyssey was one of his reasons for moving to marantz. and there is the attraction of pro calibration ability of the marantz which he has been asking me to do since getting the unit. Its something I think many moved have across to marantz for and hence why I hope its not something just forgotten along the way. It will indeed be such a shame that while we can achieve a good pro calibration with decent calibrated mic with our marantz units now that in the future some time its something that may not be possible ...and we have to resort to uncalibrated plastic mic as a system. the new ap and all that is all good and am sure will be welcomed by many but gee i do hope marantz keeps in mind that accuracy of calibration is also an important aspect when you are talking multi thousand dollar flagship av processing units.
What exactly is a "calibrated mic"? Calibrated to what? I've had good luck with the Audyssey plastic mic and a tripod. But I also have a "real" Sony mic from back in the day. (It's stereo, but I have a mono adapter.) Would that be better? Worse? The same?
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post #13814 of 15369 Old 07-06-2017, 10:48 PM
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What exactly is a "calibrated mic"? Calibrated to what? I've had good luck with the Audyssey plastic mic and a tripod. But I also have a "real" Sony mic from back in the day. (It's stereo, but I have a mono adapter.) Would that be better? Worse? The same?
comes calibrated by audyssey with a calibration file i.e. its been individually calibrated has a serial number and a calibration to match that you downlod. I'm pleased you are having some luck with plastic mic, its not something i have experience to match and thats even using a good tripod. have no idea about your sony mic sorry.

at end of it when using instruments its good to use good ones and ones calibrated. and all i am no doubt audyssey are trying to do with the pro kit...ie a better quality calibrated mic and to remove the amount of variables in the mix. I personally form my experience of using both over some few years now and across a few units that the better quality calibrated mic with the audyssey pro system definitely brings some benefit rather than plastic mic. and not something i am alone on given the experience I've seen with others on my home forum

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post #13815 of 15369 Old 07-07-2017, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by hawkster27 View Post
What exactly is a "calibrated mic"? Calibrated to what? I've had good luck with the Audyssey plastic mic and a tripod. But I also have a "real" Sony mic from back in the day. (It's stereo, but I have a mono adapter.) Would that be better? Worse? The same?
How a microphone is "calibrated" depends usually on the institution, which does it.
To my knowledge Audyssey did not do any microphone calibrations, but acquired a "calibrated" microphone from a supplier for its no longer sold "Pro" (Installer)-Kit.
Many calibrators use a pre-calibrated microphone as a reference and measure a well defined sound source against it. Then use the same procedure to measure an unknown microphone and print out the differences (file and / or graph). This might be done at the end of the production process or individually afterwards. If the results are really trustworthy depends on the supplier or calibrator, his "reference standard" and his calibration procedure. Some "calibrations" especially in mass production processes (low cost) are only done for some samples of a batch...

Microphones and their materials used age, thus their frequency response changes to some degree over time. Calibrated microphones have to be re-calibrated after certain periods of time, because they not only age (and tolerances inevitably increase) but are sensitive to handling problems too.

A "really good measurement" microphone is usually not that cheap, because it is adjusted individually already during assembly for tight (and well documented) tolerances (a time consuming and labour intensive process) and measured again afterwards. The individual graphs / file are provided as a reference. They usually cost several hundred $$$.

If it really makes an audible difference using a "calibrated" microphone for measurements in comparison to the supplied standard microphone in ones own home is up to the individual user considering those imminent problems which usually exist in this environment and not considering any problems / errors of the individual measurement process.

The standard Audyssey microphone i.e. is specified by Audyssey as having typical tolerances (deviations) of max. "+/- 2db" against an (unspecified) reference. Some replacement Audyssey mikes sold on Ebay are known to be "fakes" of unknown quality...

The conclusion: Some prefer it, some doubt it...

Last edited by gurkey; 07-07-2017 at 03:07 AM.
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post #13816 of 15369 Old 07-07-2017, 02:41 AM
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comes calibrated by audyssey with a calibration file i.e. its been individually calibrated has a serial number and a calibration to match that you downlod. I'm pleased you are having some luck with plastic mic, its not something i have experience to match and thats even using a good tripod. have no idea about your sony mic sorry.

at end of it when using instruments its good to use good ones and ones calibrated. and all i am no doubt audyssey are trying to do with the pro kit...ie a better quality calibrated mic and to remove the amount of variables in the mix. I personally form my experience of using both over some few years now and across a few units that the better quality calibrated mic with the audyssey pro system definitely brings some benefit rather than plastic mic. and not something i am alone on given the experience I've seen with others on my home forum
@hawkster27 to add further to what I posted. Audyssey with the pro kit we get to use with the marantz av8802 are not THE only room correction system that take calibration seriously. you will see this month DEQX has added a DECENT calibrated microphone to their system at no additional cost....

http://www.earthworksaudio.com/micro.../m-series/m23/
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post #13817 of 15369 Old 07-07-2017, 06:09 AM
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What exactly is a "calibrated mic"? Calibrated to what? I've had good luck with the Audyssey plastic mic and a tripod. But I also have a "real" Sony mic from back in the day. (It's stereo, but I have a mono adapter.) Would that be better? Worse? The same?
If you mean would it be better for an Audyssey calibration, the answer would be no. Only an Audyssey mic can be used.
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post #13818 of 15369 Old 07-07-2017, 06:20 AM
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If you mean would it be better for an Audyssey calibration, the answer would be no. Only an Audyssey mic can be used.
And that, essentially, is the crux of concern. Having an option for use of any mic with a standard calibration file would be ideal.
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post #13819 of 15369 Old 07-07-2017, 07:12 AM
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If you mean would it be better for an Audyssey calibration, the answer would be no. Only an Audyssey mic can be used.
To paraphrase that, there's a calibration curve designed into Audyssey which is designed to mach the nominal calibration of their consumer microphones. If you can provide a microphone which matches that sensitivity curve, that would work.

I'm sure that I've seen somewhere here on AVS a thread showing relative sensitivity (aka calibration curves) measurements for several microphones, including one or two consumer-grade Audyssey mics.... Yup, here's one. I didn't realize it was that long ago, though. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-audyssey.html

I think this was the one I was remembering, though:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...crophones.html
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post #13820 of 15369 Old 07-07-2017, 07:43 AM
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"Next, let's add in the 8802 mic. Again, same model #:

Ummm...what on earth is this?!? To level match at 1khz with the other two mics it has to be lowered by 2.8db and then it looks like this:

Even when level matched, around 9khz it's over 3db lower than the X2200 mic and over 4db lower than the X4200 mic!

Both the X4200 and 8802 use the same version of Audyssey, but with the massive variation between both mics you'd get very different results depending on which mic you used.

With this much variation from mic to mic, even though they're the same model # and provided with receivers that use the same version of Audyssey, I think it's easy to see how users are getting a different experience with different receivers/processors.
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post #13821 of 15369 Old 07-10-2017, 06:10 AM
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Hello all, I just set up my theater room and put all the equipment in a closet, including receivers for other zones.
I am using the Harmony Hub to control the equipment. The Hub is connected to my Vera Plus via the plugin.

The receivers I am controlling are - Denon X4300H, Marantz 5008 and Marantz 8802A.

The challenge:
(1) Harmony does not control these over the network even though it detects them
(2) Harmony controls these via IR, however, when I turn the 8802A "ON" the 5008 turns "ON" also. Is there a way to distintively turn them on and off so that turning on one doesn't turn on the other?

Thanks in advance guys. The idea is to plug these into Alexa when this is working. That way I can play my scenes via Alexa.
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post #13822 of 15369 Old 07-10-2017, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by turrmoil View Post
Hello all, I just set up my theater room and put all the equipment in a closet, including receivers for other zones.
I am using the Harmony Hub to control the equipment. The Hub is connected to my Vera Plus via the plugin.

The receivers I am controlling are - Denon X4300H, Marantz 5008 and Marantz 8802A.

The challenge:
(1) Harmony does not control these over the network even though it detects them
(2) Harmony controls these via IR, however, when I turn the 8802A "ON" the 5008 turns "ON" also. Is there a way to distintively turn them on and off so that turning on one doesn't turn on the other?

Thanks in advance guys. The idea is to plug these into Alexa when this is working. That way I can play my scenes via Alexa.

Unlike the "flagship" Denon X7200WA, for some reason the "flagship" Marantz doesn't feature the <Remote ID> setting which allows you to change the remote code of the device when using multiple devices from the same brand. However, another option would be to use the Denon and Marantz phone/tablet apps.
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post #13823 of 15369 Old 07-10-2017, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turrmoil View Post
Hello all, I just set up my theater room and put all the equipment in a closet, including receivers for other zones.
I am using the Harmony Hub to control the equipment. The Hub is connected to my Vera Plus via the plugin.

The receivers I am controlling are - Denon X4300H, Marantz 5008 and Marantz 8802A.

The challenge:
(1) Harmony does not control these over the network even though it detects them
(2) Harmony controls these via IR, however, when I turn the 8802A "ON" the 5008 turns "ON" also. Is there a way to distintively turn them on and off so that turning on one doesn't turn on the other?

Thanks in advance guys. The idea is to plug these into Alexa when this is working. That way I can play my scenes via Alexa.

Unlike the "flagship" Denon X7200WA, for some reason the "flagship" Marantz doesn't feature the &lt;Remote ID&gt; setting which allows you to change the remote code of the device when using multiple devices from the same brand. However, another option would be to use the Denon and Marantz phone/tablet apps.
What a shame!!!
That's what I'm using as a work around but that will come in the way of creating my ideal solution of including the receiver in the switch on and switch off recipie of Vera plus and then Alexa command.

Sigh!!

You spend $4K and not get the value you expect. Unbelievable.

(Sorry for the rant guys... just a bit frustrated)
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post #13824 of 15369 Old 07-12-2017, 05:06 AM
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Has Dolby Vision Pass-through been announced yet? I know that it was confirmed by SteveH and JDsmoothie, but has Marantz come out and said anything publicly yet?

Same thing is going on with the LG 2016 OLEDs for HLG and a way to calibrate 2016 panels for true Dolby vision experience. Customer service has said something is coming but has not been publicly announced. wonder who will be first LG or Marantz?

Last edited by Dave-T; 07-12-2017 at 05:09 AM.
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post #13825 of 15369 Old 07-12-2017, 05:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave-T View Post
Has Dolby Vision Pass-through been announced yet? I know that it was confirmed by SteveH and JDsmoothie, but has Marantz come out and said anything publicly yet?

Same thing is going on with the LG 2016 OLEDs for HLG and a way to calibrate 2016 panels for true Dolby vision experience. Customer service has said something is coming but has not been publicly announced. wonder who will be first LG or Marantz?
Why do you need a public announcement when we've already confirmed (from very reliable sources) it will happen by year's end/early 2018?

You can consider us the public announcement.
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post #13826 of 15369 Old 07-13-2017, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave-T View Post
Has Dolby Vision Pass-through been announced yet? I know that it was confirmed by SteveH and JDsmoothie, but has Marantz come out and said anything publicly yet?



Same thing is going on with the LG 2016 OLEDs for HLG and a way to calibrate 2016 panels for true Dolby vision experience. Customer service has said something is coming but has not been publicly announced. wonder who will be first LG or Marantz?


Marantz Australia on FB has announced it

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post #13827 of 15369 Old 07-13-2017, 05:43 AM
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Marantz Australia on FB has announced it
You guys getting the upper hand finally next hopefully will be better pricing
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post #13828 of 15369 Old 07-13-2017, 05:56 AM
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Marantz Australia on FB has announced it


I can't find it in their FB page
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post #13829 of 15369 Old 07-13-2017, 06:00 AM
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I can't find it in their FB page


When I told them about it they did their research with Marantz EU then they replied to my post and told me I was correct.

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post #13830 of 15369 Old 07-13-2017, 06:01 AM
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You guys getting the upper hand finally next hopefully will be better pricing


Hopefully it's for free
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