Marantz AV8802 13.2 XLR Pre/Pro **Official Thread** - Page 468 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #14011 of 15377 Old 08-23-2017, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Hey, the guy just isn't ready for this kind of hardware yet. So why should you?





















You take your YPAO and git on back to your thread, ya hear.
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post #14012 of 15377 Old 08-23-2017, 05:56 PM
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Not sure what you mean by "phantom speakers", but Marantz is going from 11 channels to 13 channels because the newer DSP engines have enough horsepower to allow the Atmos decoder to render to two more speaker locations then before. Not like that's a mystery.
do we ? will remain phantom for me till we actually hear more from marantz wht they are actually doing wiht extra speakers. id rather more sub support personally. am not really one to be chasing ghosts or phantoms for that matter

but yeah am not really hearing anything compelling as yet....

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post #14013 of 15377 Old 08-23-2017, 05:57 PM
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You take your YPAO and git on back to your thread, ya hear.
i see your new avatar is already taking effect you tell em !

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post #14014 of 15377 Old 08-23-2017, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post
I actually found Wide speakers far more involving in my setup than overheard. There's more stuff happening at ear level.

The way the wide speakers fill a void as a robot stomps around you or as a car drives offscreen is just better conveyed with wides
but thats only because you dont actually have over head speakers ... do you ? I thought you only had those upward firing thingies.... or has something changed

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post #14015 of 15377 Old 08-23-2017, 06:39 PM
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do we ?
Yes, that's why all the chatter recently about native 13-channel Atmos decoding from various manufacturers (Acurus, Emotiva, Denon/Marantz). Did you think the timing was coincidental? For all those different brands? It is now over 3 years after Atmos first arrived on consumer gear and no one should be surprised that there are more powerful DSP chips available that can natively render to 13 speaker locations. Nothing more complicated (or mysterious) that that.

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post #14016 of 15377 Old 08-23-2017, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Yes, that's why all the chatter recently about native 13-channel Atmos decoding from various manufacturers (Acurus, Emotiva, Denon/Marantz). Did you think the timing was coincidental? For all those different brands? It is now over 3 years after Atmos first arrived on consumer gear and no one should be surprised that there are more powerful DSP chips available that can natively render to 13 speaker locations. Nothing more complicated (or mysterious) that that.
ive not seen anything bar chatter, but if you have something more concrete sure pass on from marantz. as i said earlier, rather than more atmos channels (or wides - i dont think we can make up our minds) i for one would personally rather see more sophisticated bass management, and support of upto 3 subs in various configs that denon for instance has supported in flag ship prior and you will see acurus supporting upto 3 subs as well (with upto 7.3.6). but yeah i guess till we something concrete from denon/marantz on what they intend then we are just left guessing...

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post #14017 of 15377 Old 08-23-2017, 08:07 PM
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ive not seen anything bar chatter, but if you have something more concrete sure pass on from marantz. as i said earlier, rather than more atmos channels (or wides - i dont think we can make up our minds) i for one would personally rather see more sophisticated bass management, and support of upto 3 subs in various configs that denon for instance has supported in flag ship prior and you will see acurus supporting upto 3 subs as well (with upto 7.3.6). but yeah i guess till we something concrete from denon/marantz on what they intend then we are just left guessing...
There are inexpensive solutions from companies like MiniDSP that augment the 8802A with multi-sub integration and bass management improvements. I would prefer that Marantz focus on support for additional channels and next-generation HDMI, which cannot be easily added with external products.
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post #14018 of 15377 Old 08-23-2017, 08:49 PM
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....we are just left guessing...
Not we, you (as you'll find out in the spring).

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post #14019 of 15377 Old 08-23-2017, 09:01 PM
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Not we, you (as you'll find out in the spring).
?huh? asked for something concrete. but have failed to supply as yet. what else supposed to go on then ? crystal balls ??? imagination ? ghost stories ?

you might have some divine knowledge but mere mortals like myself are left guessing what might come. i guess spring isn't far away its in 1 weeks time for us down under . but nothing compelling to look forward to at this stage i would suggest.

and who is the royal "we" ??? as in not US

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post #14020 of 15377 Old 08-23-2017, 09:04 PM
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There are inexpensive solutions from companies like MiniDSP that augment the 8802A with multi-sub integration and bass management improvements. I would prefer that Marantz focus on support for additional channels and next-generation HDMI, which cannot be easily added with external products.
many of us prefer to utilise our av processors for the bass management and eq needs which is what they build in and have us pay good money for

and I for one am happy to pay, as have done in the past. I dont think i am alone in this regard. infact I would suggest people using mini dsps with their marantz av8802A's would be very much in the minority

happy for you to call for a show of hands if think or feel otherwise

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post #14021 of 15377 Old 08-23-2017, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post
I actually found Wide speakers far more involving in my setup than overheard. There's more stuff happening at ear level.

The way the wide speakers fill a void as a robot stomps around you or as a car drives offscreen is just better conveyed with wides
Because Audyssey DSX is no longer of any relevance (they where the originators of wide speakers) and thus a thing of the past, "wides" as designated speakers probably will not return.
The Audyysey DSX format has been something of an intermediate step which has been withdrawn after the arrival of Dolby Atmos and DTS:X, which don't "favor" them explicitly. Unfortunate but true...

I went the "wides "way too and have been left with full format wides L/R in front in addition to the regular fronts. Its hard to find a valid replacement, because the surround speakers should actually go behind the listeners according to the widely followed ITU-R BS positioning pattern.
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post #14022 of 15377 Old 08-24-2017, 12:55 AM
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but thats only because you dont actually have over head speakers ... do you ? I thought you only had those upward firing thingies.... or has something changed
I helped install a 7.2.4 overhead speakers with matching Focal Aria speakers - to be honest, I didn't think the Atmos enabled speakers lost out.
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post #14023 of 15377 Old 08-24-2017, 12:57 AM
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Because Audyssey DSX is no longer of any relevance (they where the originators of wide speakers) and thus a thing of the past, "wides" as designated speakers probably will not return.
The Audyysey DSX format has been something of an intermediate step which has been withdrawn after the arrival of Dolby Atmos and DTS:X, which don't "favor" them explicitly. Unfortunate but true...

I went the "wides "way too and have been left with full format wides L/R in front in addition to the regular fronts. Its hard to find a valid replacement, because the surround speakers should actually go behind the listeners according to the widely followed ITU-R BS positioning pattern.
Isn't it back in the latest Dolby Atmos test disk?

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/sp...tup-guide.html
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post #14024 of 15377 Old 08-24-2017, 01:32 AM
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Wow! who woke up the napping 8802 thread and didn't give it breakfast!

Better get your gavel ready Wabo!
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post #14025 of 15377 Old 08-24-2017, 02:19 AM
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Isn't it back in the latest Dolby Atmos test disk?

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/sp...tup-guide.html
Yep i remember seeing that.... though thats where the confusion comes with regards what exactly will marantz and denon be supporting with 13 channels ? is it 7.1.6 or 9.1.4 or will there be a choice. are the wides part of atmos ?

as some are using marantz and denon already support 7.2.4 I'm actually using 7.1.5 with auro music so technically using 13 channels now

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post #14026 of 15377 Old 08-24-2017, 05:29 AM
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General consensus among the manufacturers at least seems to be "no wides" because all the newer and current models don't have them anymore. They have been matrixed anyway and are not "true" (native) channels. Dolby probably supports them just for legacy reasons because so many existing installation do still have them. DTS: X doesn't.
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post #14027 of 15377 Old 08-24-2017, 05:42 AM
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General consensus seems to be "no wides" because all the newer and current models don't have them anymore. They have been matrixed anyway and are no "true" (native) channels. Dolby probably supports them just for legacy reasons because so many existing installation do still have them. DTS: X doesn't.
Is it "no wides" or is it "go wides"?
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post #14028 of 15377 Old 08-24-2017, 07:18 AM
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General consensus among the manufacturers at least seem to be "no wides" because all the newer and current models don't have them anymore. They have been matrixed anyway and are not "true" (native) channels. Dolby probably supports them just for legacy reasons because so many existing installation do still have them. DTS: X doesn't.
its an interesting point. I've found with the setup i have gone with in 7.1.4 that it matches well with DTS-X and auro3D which I also run. however no idea how the larger room 7.1.6 or 9.1.4 dolby setups for that matter match up with these other formats !

also once committed to 7.1.4 I for one cants see too many re positioning their heights to match up with the positioning of the heights for 7.1.6

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post #14029 of 15377 Old 08-24-2017, 07:33 AM
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many of us prefer to utilise our av processors for the bass management and eq needs which is what they build in and have us pay good money for

and I for one am happy to pay, as have done in the past. I dont think i am alone in this regard. infact I would suggest people using mini dsps with their marantz av8802A's would be very much in the minority

happy for you to call for a show of hands if think or feel otherwise
I don't disagree with what you say. However, when you asked for better bass management and integration capabilities for more than two subs, I think these enhancements would also be targeted to the minority. I suppose it depends on what you mean by better bass management. The typical AVR allows you to set speakers to large or small and establish a crossover, and that's all. "Better" bass management would include the capability to select crossover type (e.g. Linkwitz-Riley vs. Butterworth), and vary the crossover slope. I doubt the average user would take advantage of these capabilities, and would opt for a lower priced AVR rather than have unused features included. The more sophisticated user would have the option of adding these features with a product such as the MiniDSP 88A (as well as having Dirac Live, and arguably better room correction technology).

As for integration for more than two subs, how many more subs do you want to integrate? Three, four, eight? It would be difficult for the AVR manufacturer to pick a number that satisfies everyone. But an inexpensive ($100) MiniDSP does the job.
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post #14030 of 15377 Old 08-24-2017, 07:47 AM
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Not asking for man on the moon. Just 3 sub support and denon did it for last flagship and nearly 10 years ago so not sure big ask these days for marantz flagship if looking for more channel support. As it is am reduced to one sub now with 12 channels of speakers am running now. Not after anything more in bass management than 3 subs in various configurations the denon flagship also did 10 years ago. And with eq with decent calibrated mic d&m has been supporting now for ten years with their flagships.

I value all this more than re configuring and repositioning my height speakers to add in more or adding in front wides which we don't knew w how fit in with other formats. Or support for a hdmi scheme which only the gods know what benefit will bring. But we must have aparently ???
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Is it "no wides" or is it "go wides"?
My fault. I meant the manufacturers. Sorry. Have corrected it correspondingly.
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Not asking for man on the moon. Just 3 sub support and denon did it for last flagship and nearly 10 years ago so not sure big ask these days for marantz flagship if looking for more channel support. As it is am reduced to one sub now with 12 channels of speakers am running now. Not after anything more in bass management than 3 subs in various configurations the denon flagship also did 10 years ago. And with eq with decent calibrated mic d&m has been supporting now for ten years with their flagships.

I value all this more than re configuring and repositioning my height speakers to add in more or adding in front wides which we don't knew w how fit in with other formats. Or support for a hdmi scheme which only the gods know what benefit will bring. But we must have aparently ???
The "correct/optimal" setup for the subs would be to have a setup of several of the same model. The input is mono already, thus for two subs you would need a maximum of two subs out for varying distance, corrected as one, which we got already, a third and fourth one would have to be aligned to either one for distance, delay and level. But three or even more subs is a vanishing small minority. There a more features of higher priority waiting in line before that...

PS.: Considering a DBA with a minimum of 4 subs we would just need a single sub out.
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post #14033 of 15377 Old 08-24-2017, 09:08 AM
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My fault. I meant the manufacturers. Sorry. Have corrected it correspondingly.
Understood of course. Just trying to start the plug for Front Wides. GO WIDES! GO WIDES! GO WIDES! GO WIDES!
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Wow! who woke up the napping 8802 thread and didn't give it breakfast!

Better get your gavel ready Wabo!
Al was holding court with his hammer and tongs. I was on the sideline trying not to get in his way.
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post #14035 of 15377 Old 08-24-2017, 10:52 AM
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Al was holding court with his hammer and tongs. I was on the sideline trying not to get in his way.
Yeah! that would've been like sticking your finger in to a fan on high! Al was rolling on !perhaps to much coffee? caught us Americans off guard do to the time difference? Guess you don't need to come in today

Al's a one man gang
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post #14036 of 15377 Old 08-24-2017, 11:02 AM
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You take your YPAO and git on back to your thread, ya hear.
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i see your new avatar is already taking effect you tell em !

Yeah.... I should get out of the thread cuz .... I want the same thing you want when not even one of "your own" doesn't.

You tell em'!
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post #14037 of 15377 Old 08-24-2017, 11:26 AM
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Yeah.... I should get out of the thread cuz .... I want the same thing you want when not even one of "your own" doesn't.

You tell em'!
You have a future in politics, as I have no idea what you're rambling about. Bartender, gimme what the Simonian is having. Make mine a double.
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post #14038 of 15377 Old 08-24-2017, 11:35 AM
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Bartender, gimme what the Simonian is having. Make mine a double.
So then you'll be picking up a Yamaha and getting better speakers?

It's best to quadruple, btw.
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post #14039 of 15377 Old 08-24-2017, 11:05 PM
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Yeah! that would've been like sticking your finger in to a fan on high! Al was rolling on !perhaps to much coffee? caught us Americans off guard do to the time difference? Guess you don't need to come in today

Al's a one man gang
all quiet on the northern front... time to catch em napping
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post #14040 of 15377 Old 08-24-2017, 11:57 PM
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The "correct/optimal" setup for the subs would be to have a setup of several of the same model. The input is mono already, thus for two subs you would need a maximum of two subs out for varying distance, corrected as one, which we got already, a third and fourth one would have to be aligned to either one for distance, delay and level. But three or even more subs is a vanishing small minority. There a more features of higher priority waiting in line before that...

PS.: Considering a DBA with a minimum of 4 subs we would just need a single sub out.
hi, the way audyssey works is it does indeed measure each sub individually... for it to happen it needs individual connections of each sub so can ping each...and apply level and delay to each.... its only pinged as once after that to apply the eq

read below from chris from audyssey re how xt32 and its multi sub capability works,

"The idea is to first measure each sub separately, then apply delay and level settings so that the two subs are now time and level aligned. Then we ping them once more as "one" sub to derive the room correction filter"

so having a system capable of dealing in multiple subs is crucial if running anything over one... and certainly very necessary for 2-3

as far as number of subs in a room, the below is THE definitive work on the matter conducted by harman,

https://www.harman.com/sites/default...multsubs_0.pdf

as it concludes,

"Four subwoofers are enough to get the best result of any configuration tried. Two subwoofers is very nearly as good and has very good low frequency support as well."

"One subwoofer at each wall midpoint is the best in terms of Std, Max-ave and Max-min but does not support low frequencies particularly well. Two subwoofers, at opposing wall midpoints, performs very nearly as well as four at the midpoints and gives a much better LF factor. One subwoofer in each corner also has good low frequency support, but does not perform quite as well as one subwoofer at each wall midpoint, in terms of Std, Max-ave and Max-min. If cost and aesthetics are considered, subwoofers at 2 wall midpoints is preferred."

ofcourse running 2 or 4 subs what is critical is not only positioning which the white paper goes in some detail with. but also quite obviously dialing them in perfection which requires measurement and an EQ that is suitable. At end of it dolby has systems for in the home supporting upto 9.1.6 and while there is one LFE channel to optimise for rooms people will utilise more than the one channel. Adding more channels to processing capability certainly provides the option of connecting, measurement and eq to support e.g. as D&M has already done in years gone by. And similarly as shown even now accurus supporting with facility to cope with 3 subwoofers in a system.

I totally accept just like not everyone will go with 9 main channels and 6 height channels in systems, I also accept no everyone will go more 3-4 subs let alone even over one sub which is possibly more the norm. but buying into more expensive av processing systems is all about enabling greater capability and configurability. why else would people upgrade to them and am trying to look to the future and compelling reasons why we might possibly upgrade at some point in the future. greater subwoofer capability and continuing on the great system we have now to measure with calibrated mic and eq with a system capable of handling multiple subs as we have now is certainly one of them

"Technology is a drug. We can't get enough of it."


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