The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 1048 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31411 of 55446 Old 10-21-2015, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
And in my local Atmos theater, it is probably even better than the JBL booth. Wouldn’t one expect a setup that costs tens of times more to be superior?
Not necessarily. The more intimate setting really put you in the middle of the tracks in a way a cavernous auditorium could not (at least in my cinema Atmos experience). The subtleties of object panning and static placement in the mixes were much more apparent, even overhead.

I have to wonder if these 7.1.4 and smaller rendering blocks aren't keeping some of the overhead object information in the main layer speakers rather than just blobbing them altogether in two or four speakers.

Listen up, studios! Dolby Atmos Lite™ print-outs must stop!!
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post #31412 of 55446 Old 10-21-2015, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
well...you didnt mention that...you said Hollywood has dropped 3d.

there still are 633 US blu-rays in 3d either released or scheduled to be released...if the movie was in 3d in the theater it almost is guaranteed to be released in bluray 3d

and lets be honest...physical media itself is drying up...so that is no indication of which direction Hollywood is going
Now you’re letting facts get in the way of Dan's prejudices
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post #31413 of 55446 Old 10-21-2015, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Not necessarily. The more intimate setting really put you in the middle of the tracks in a way a cavernous auditorium could not (at least in my cinema Atmos experience). The subtleties in the mixes were much more apparent, even overhead.
Try a different Atmos theater

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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
I have to wonder if these 7.1.4 and smaller rendering blocks aren't keeping some of the overhead object information in the main layer speakers rather than just blobbing them altogether in two or four speakers.
And your evidence on which that wondering is based is what?
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post #31414 of 55446 Old 10-21-2015, 09:02 AM
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well if studios don't start using the ceilings more, the format might as well just die. Isn't that why we bought these expensive atmos receivers and ceiling speakers to begin with? What I hear in San Andreas is a joke, certainly not worth 1000's of dollars and you want to talk about missed opportunity? No movie yet has had a better reason to use the ceiling speakers.
Thanks for your comments on Atmos as that's exactly why I'm "WAITING" !!!

I'll add this also to the above .........

It seems there is so much new technology revolving around the Atmos thing it just makes sense to "Wait" until things calm down.

I'm not one of the people that wishes to buy/purchase a Pre-Amp processor and then a few months later find out it is already out-dated.


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post #31415 of 55446 Old 10-21-2015, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
well...you didnt mention that...you said Hollywood has dropped 3d.

there still are 633 US blu-rays in 3d either released or scheduled to be released...if the movie was in 3d in the theater it almost is guaranteed to be released in bluray 3d

and lets be honest...physical media itself is drying up...so that is no indication of which direction Hollywood is going
Not necessarily in the theater but the signals are out that Hollywood and the manufacturers are seeing the writing on the wall and are moving towards other enticements. If 3D was as popular to consumers as it once was, they would happily be espousing that feature left and right. They are not anymore.

Listen up, studios! Dolby Atmos Lite™ print-outs must stop!!
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post #31416 of 55446 Old 10-21-2015, 09:05 AM
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I am about to upgrade my room to Atmos. I bought 4 Volt10-LX kits from DIY sound group. My ceiling is 8 foot high and the top of my screen is ~3" from the ceiling so any on ceiling speaker installation would block the picture.

My options are
1. Install them in-ceiling using the ceiling as a baffle. They would be flush and pointing downwards.
2. Build boxes for them and somehow install the boxes in the ceiling cavity and lower one end of the box them just enough to point the driver towards the listening area.

Which option do you recommend? Is it better to have the speakers facing the listening position to warrant the extra effort?

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Speakers: 3 JTR 212HTR (LCR), 2 Jtr Single 8LP (S), 2 JTR Triple 12LF (SB)) , 4 Volt 10LX (Atmos)
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post #31417 of 55446 Old 10-21-2015, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
And your evidence on which that wondering is based is what?
Listening.

There were booths with 5.1.2, 5.1.4, and 7.1.4 then there were booths like Wisdom and JBL that played the same demo material with more speakers.

For example, you've been poo pooing Auro for as long as I remember and you don't have a heck of a lot of listening experience to back things up. Have you traveled to CEDIA? CES? Multiple venues to experience different layouts with different speakers, with Atmos, X, and Auro, etc.

That hasn't stopped your own opinions from being voiced over and over and over. Why should I have to?

Listen up, studios! Dolby Atmos Lite™ print-outs must stop!!
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post #31418 of 55446 Old 10-21-2015, 09:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Not necessarily in the theater but the signals are out that Hollywood and the manufacturers are seeing the writing on the wall and are moving towards other enticements. If 3D was as popular to consumers as it once was, they would happily be espousing that feature left and right. They are not anymore.
can you please point me to evidence of these "signals" I would like to read more about it...
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post #31419 of 55446 Old 10-21-2015, 09:15 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ahmedreda View Post
I am about to upgrade my room to Atmos. I bought 4 Volt10-LX kits from DIY sound group. My ceiling is 8 foot high and the top of my screen is ~3" from the ceiling so any on ceiling speaker installation would block the picture.

My options are
1. Install them in-ceiling using the ceiling as a baffle. They would be flush and pointing downwards.
2. Build boxes for them and somehow install the boxes in the ceiling cavity and lower one end of the box them just enough to point the driver towards the listening area.

Which option do you recommend? Is it better to have the speakers facing the listening position to warrant the extra effort?
I just ordered volt 6's for the same thing...and ordered the slanted flat pack (they offer one for the 10's as well) I plan on slanting them towards the mlp to not be extremely off axis. but from what I have read...ceiling mounting them without a backer box will yield just as good result...I would have gone this way..but the cavity between all my joists are filled with pipes etc
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post #31420 of 55446 Old 10-21-2015, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
If 3D was as popular to consumers as it once was, they would happily be espousing that feature left and right. They are not anymore.
Was 3D ever all that popular for home viewing? I've had plenty of gear that's supported it over the years and not once was the viewing experience enhanced as a result. Now, better speakers and audio tracks; those have definitely made positive impressions. Plenty of folks praise the audio quality, but nobody's ever raved about having been able to see it with 3D. Far from it, more often there's complaints it wasn't worth the trouble (glasses, picture quality, etc). While I'd certainly back seeing 'the numbers', it doesn't take much sense to understand why 3D ain't where it's at.
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post #31421 of 55446 Old 10-21-2015, 09:24 AM
 
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Was 3D ever all that popular for home viewing? I've had plenty of gear that's supported it over the years and not once was the viewing experience enhanced as a result. Now, better speakers and audio tracks; those have definitely made positive impressions. Plenty of folks praise the audio quality, but nobody's ever raved about having been able to see it with 3D. Far from it, more often there's complaints it wasn't worth the trouble (glasses, picture quality, etc). While I'd certainly back seeing 'the numbers', it doesn't take much sense to understand why 3D ain't where it's at.
i never used to either...in my living room HT witha 65" screen i could take it or leave it

it wasnt until I built a dedicated HT with 10' wide scope screen that i truly fell in love with all things 3d...do i getmad if a movie ISNT in 3d ...no...but its a great bonus when it is
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post #31422 of 55446 Old 10-21-2015, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
listen to a beatles stereo album....but do so with one of the L or R turned off...youd be surprised in one of them how little comes out of that speaker....yet it sounds great and full with both playing

transfer this same thought process to atmos...and voila...incredible sound

The beatles never sounded good to me, but that's another story.


But, I get your point. The killer is, while I was watching the movie the first time, it was the lack of Atmos type surround effects that made me question if all the speakers were indeed on and working. So while the movie did sound good, it did not sound any better then any other 5.1/7.1 movie without Atmos with expection of the very rare squeak and creak from a ceiling speaker.


Again, for the first full 16mins there is NOTHING coming from my ceilings. NOTHING. There's a lot happening in that movie the first 16mins. Then there's just two or three sounds in th next 40 seconds, and NOTHING again until the rock rescues his ex wife from the roof of the building she was on. And in that scene it was a few sounds of flames circling around and that was it, some concrete falling. No helicopter noises, no nuttin. Then the next spot was the scene under wather with the rock rescueing his daughter, and you can hear water.


But when I read the review here, quoted just a few posts above, it makes it sound like I was missing so much more - and all I remember was how rare it was too hear anything Atmos related - which started my OMFG what's wrong with my system....must check this, must check that, re-cal etc etc.


Now I know Dolby would like us to all believe there's more going on with Atmos then what the height speakers are doing, and technically sure...yup, it is. But without the ceilings being used....I'm sorry but it doesn't really sound any different then 5.1/7.1 to "me". The darn things are there....start freak'n using them.
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post #31423 of 55446 Old 10-21-2015, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Listening.
You ears can give you an insight into rendering blocks in different AVRs? That is truly remarkable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
For example, you've been poo pooing Auro for as long as I remember and you don't have a heck of a lot of listening experience to back things up.
I have never, not even once, made a single comment on how Auro sounds. So, given that listening requires sound, your remark above seems to be entirely irrelevant to anything.

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Have you traveled to CEDIA? CES? Multiple venues to experience different layouts with different speakers, with Atmos, X, and Auro, etc.
I’d assume it would be pretty obvious that I'm not going to travel 5,000 miles to attend CEDIA. And even if I lived next door to it, I wouldn't go there to listen to a single demo of anything at all because it is largely futile. Poorly designed rooms, for the most part, badly set up, lacking acoustic treatments etc etc are not how I want to listen to anything thanks. It might be of passing interest to take a listen but not for any sort of serious evaluation of anything. Of course, I have listened to properly set up Atmos at Dolby's HQ in London. And at very well set up demo facilities in the UK dealer network. And at two or three SOTA movie theaters.

But how is this relevant to anything, other than a weak attempt at deflection? I asked you what your evidence was for the remark you made about the inner workings of Atmos in different AVRs. Your answer tells me you have none, which is good enough for me. Dan, you made a remark which you cannot in any way substantiate and you were called out on it. My advice: when in a hole, stop digging

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That hasn't stopped your own opinions from being voiced over and over and over. Why should I have to?
Unfortunately, you are in the red herring business here but it won’t work. Find a single example of where I have given an opinion of how Auro sounds - just one - which would be needed for your comment about lack of 'listening experience' to have any meaning. You say I have voiced these opinions over and over and over, so it shouldn’t be hard to find one or two to quote back to me.

Nice try at deflection, Dan, but this isn't my first rodeo, buddy
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post #31424 of 55446 Old 10-21-2015, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post
It seems there is so much new technology revolving around the Atmos thing it just makes sense to "Wait" until things calm down.

There is? Like what?
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post #31425 of 55446 Old 10-21-2015, 10:02 AM
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Now I know Dolby would like us to all believe there's more going on with Atmos then what the height speakers are doing, and technically sure...yup, it is. But without the ceilings being used....I'm sorry but it doesn't really sound any different then 5.1/7.1 to "me". The darn things are there....start freak'n using them.
Do you care to share details of your setup and system with us? If you are not hearing any difference between Atmos and 5.1/7.1 it suggests something is wrong somewhere.

Do you have a copy of Mad Max Fury Road?
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post #31426 of 55446 Old 10-21-2015, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Unless someone got a hold of the full booth demo disc... it ain't worth it. Be happy if you can find the 2014 disc.
Yep thats what I am looking for. I am interested in the multiple movie clips. I've already have full rips of the 2014 and Jan 2015 disc that I play on my Dune media player.
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post #31427 of 55446 Old 10-21-2015, 10:22 AM
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I am in the midst of placing inceiling speakers for Dolby Atmos. Background info I have a Denon X5200w. I currently have a 7.1 setup. I am planning a 7.1.4. I have 4 in-ceiling speakers for atmos placement. I purchased a crown xls1000 amp the drive 2 of the atmos speakers.

Please confirm the following steps I am doing to ensure proper speaker placement.

1. I aligned the atmos speakers with the front speakers and rear surrounds. (just confirming I am doing the correct.

2. I am placing the top front speakers 98.5 inches from the MLP. If my calculations are correct that gives me a angle of 31 degrees. Which falls within the atmos specs.

3. I am placing the top rear speakers 69 inches from the MLP. I am calculating an angle of 139 degrees which I believe falls within the atmos spec.

I used the spread sheet within this thread to calculate angles. Any concerns?

Thanks in advance for any help you are providing.
Bill

Last edited by TVAddikt; 10-21-2015 at 10:29 AM.
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post #31428 of 55446 Old 10-21-2015, 10:34 AM
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I am placing the top front speakers 98.5 inches from the MLP. If my calculations are correct that gives me a angle of 31 degrees. Which falls within the atmos specs.
It barely falls within the Atmos spec, so you'd be better off getting your top front speakers higher up, like 45 degrees elevation, it order to get a better impression of sounds above you.

Sanjay
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post #31429 of 55446 Old 10-21-2015, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by newfmp3 View Post
have Top Front and Top Rear. Denon X4100, with seperate amps. I do NOT hear anything from the ceilings speakers until exactly the 16 min mark (actually 15:58). And that is only a squeak of a swinging light. Then again at 16:40 with some creaking beams.

.
@newfmp3

So I went down to the HT and popped in the 2D BD. Ran it from start to about 6:00 mark. not a peep out of the TF/TRs. FF to 16:00 mark. Light swinging, dust and debris falling at about that point. Sounds like they really start being utilized from there on. I didn't listen to the whole thing to that point or even beyond, but yeah you're right. I know that from chapter 4 on approximately, the tops see a lot more action, as referenced in my previous comment. So you are not crazy, it's not your system, it's the disc mix.

Maybe this is by choice (obviously I suppose). Ever listen to a song and all of a sudden in one of the choruses a choir comes in or a symphony or the drums or an electric guitar kick in? Heightens the emotions at that particular part of a song and amps up the energy in a climatic sense. Maybe that was their intention to kick in Atmos later? Not trying to defend their decision to do so....but clearly it was omitted for a reason.
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post #31430 of 55446 Old 10-21-2015, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by stikle View Post
There is? Like what?
He's right there is going to be Atmos everywhere quite soon:
- Atmos in the Cinema (here since 2012)
- Atmos in the Home Theater (around for a year now)
- Atmos in the soundbars (Yamaha released one lately, i heard it during a show, it is not as good as an Atmos HT, but it adds a sense of depth)
- Atmos on streaming over the net (Netflix and others, coming soon)
- Atmos on Cable and Satellite (Comcast and many others in 2016)
- Atmos in video games (coming in 2016)
- Atmos in mobile phones and tablets (i am questioning the usefulness of this one )

That's quite a big list and a big ecosystem.
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post #31431 of 55446 Old 10-21-2015, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TVAddikt View Post

2. I am placing the top front speakers 98.5 inches from the MLP. If my calculations are correct that gives me a angle of 31 degrees. Which falls within the atmos specs.

3. I am placing the top rear speakers 69 inches from the MLP. I am calculating an angle of 139 degrees which I believe falls within the atmos spec.

Bill
Bill, I'm assuming your ceilings are higher than 8'? 9'+ in front of MLP seems far away, but that may be because you have taller ceilings. 40" is typical ear position from floor. So subtract that from your ceiling height to calculate angle. arctan (height/distance).

I know some wouldn't recommend going out to the far end of the spec of 30 degrees. I did specifically for 2 rows and had a professional dolby atmos installer in my HT recommend I do the same thing. All rooms are different so it depends on your room and listening preferences/habits. I will agree that running them out to 30 degrees or so does significantly weaken the field from them, but this can be corrected by using "aimable" speakers and/or increasing the db in your level settings. While putting them more forward-end of the spec does helps the 2 row cause, it does more or less compromise the MLP to get a better "all seat overall" sound.

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post #31432 of 55446 Old 10-21-2015, 10:47 AM
 
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Ultimately it probably comes down to the fact that Dolby can't charge for the disc as it is intended for demonstration purposes only, BUT they also have to pay to make the disc which isn't trivial. What I would love to see is something like this included in the box with AVRs or SSPs that feature Atmos as a promotional thing. I remember when DTS finally made it into receivers in the late nineties. I bought a Kenwood AVR that was one of the first to have DTS decoding and included was a DTS demo disc that was only music (no video clips) and I LOVED it. It drove me to want to find as much multi-channel music as possible to own, of which there was VERY little (no DVD-A or SACD at the time, only a handful of DTS music titles).
That ^ is the very best solution...and it's good for the Atmos product manufacturers that they invest one or two dollars per unit when they can sell more of them. ...Everyone wins...with smiles on their faces.
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post #31433 of 55446 Old 10-21-2015, 10:54 AM
 
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Neither, the Maestro M9 processor. I generally stick to SSPs, I rarely review AVRs. I am sure we'll have someone review one of the AVRs though.
I am excited by the prospects of the XMR-1 as well, especially if they can truly deliver 16 channels (I want to use all 6 of my ceiling speakers) and Dirac Unison.
Ambitious.
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post #31434 of 55446 Old 10-21-2015, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoked21 View Post
Bill, I'm assuming your ceilings are higher than 8'? 9'+ in front of MLP seems far away, but that may be because you have taller ceilings. 40" is typical ear position from floor. So subtract that from your ceiling height to calculate angle. arctan (height/distance).

I know some wouldn't recommend going out to the far end of the spec of 30 degrees. I did specifically for 2 rows and had a professional dolby atmos installer in my HT recommend I do the same thing. All rooms are different so it depends on your room and listening preferences/habits. I will agree that running them out to 30 degrees or so does significantly weaken the field from them, but this can be corrected by using "aimable" speakers and/or increasing the db in your level settings. While putting them more forward-end of the spec does helps the 2 row cause, it does more or less compromise the MLP to get a better "all seat overall" sound.
Quote:
It barely falls within the Atmos spec, so you'd be better off getting your top front speakers higher up, like 45 degrees elevation, it order to get a better impression of sounds above you.
Thanks so much for responding.

1. yes my ceiling are 8'. I went that far due to seating. I don't have a typical theater type arrangement. In order to help I purchased an angled in-ceiling speaker to aim at the MLP. The rears are non aimable in-ceiling speakers.
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post #31435 of 55446 Old 10-21-2015, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Do you have a copy of Mad Max Fury Road?
For his sake, I hope not! What a piece of crap!!

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post #31436 of 55446 Old 10-21-2015, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Nightlord View Post
For his sake, I hope not! What a piece of crap!!
Thank you for your insightful and considered review. @Ralph Potts has no need to worry

While you are here, care to elaborate on your assertion in the DOA Immersive Formats thread <g> that Atmos is a "single person system"?
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post #31437 of 55446 Old 10-21-2015, 11:13 AM
 
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What I truly hope...with the eminent new world of UHD Blu-ray...is that when you purchase a title...that it also comes with its 3D* version (on a separate 1080p BR disc) and also with a Dolby Atmos audio soundtrack (or DTS:X) on that 3D disc version. ...And the 2D BR disc version (UHD)...also with a (((3D))) audio soundtrack (Atmos, dts:X or Auro-3D), of course.
And! ...That the price remains reasonable...for us common mortals who love the best of the best and far away from the inferior/mediocre streaming/downloading movie world.

* The next three Star Wars and next three Avatar movies. ...UHD physical BR, and (((3D))) with Atmos (or dts:x). ...For thirty bucks.
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post #31438 of 55446 Old 10-21-2015, 11:13 AM
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I have a question in regards to the amp I bought to power 2 of the atmos speakers. I am hoping it is ok to post this question here. Disclaimer: I have never integrated an external amp into my setup before. On that note, here is what I plan:

1. Install the Atmos speakers.
2. Connect 2 of the Atmos speakers to my receiver and then connect the other 2 to the crown amp.
3. I use an rca wire to feed the crown amp from the denon.

Here is where I start to wonder.

1. What should I set the volume level to on the Crown Amp?
2. Does it matter which pair of Atmos speakers I run through the crown amp?

Once I am to this point I will rerun Audessey.

Thanks for listening.
Bill
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post #31439 of 55446 Old 10-21-2015, 11:17 AM
 
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1. Half way.
2. No (but do check in your manual what they recommend...each manufacturer is different...depending on their implementation).

Last edited by NorthSky; 10-21-2015 at 02:00 PM. Reason: ( )
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post #31440 of 55446 Old 10-21-2015, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Thank you for your insightful and considered review. @Ralph Potts has no need to worry

While you are here, care to elaborate on your assertion in the DOA Immersive Formats thread <g> that Atmos is a "single person system"?
It was a moderated review. An emotional one would have the director thrown off a a well known rock in Australia.

Sure. It sounds quite different when not sitting in the centered sweetspot.
Where dialog came from in Gravity was a big tell on this. In one seat I had some dialog straight above me, which in sweetspot was to the side. Thus, only the person in the perfect center position will get to hear what was intended.

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