The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 1056 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31651 of 55443 Old 10-24-2015, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Things like this can go overboard, and it has. Big time. They're little snippets for demo purposes, not full segments or an entire movie. Just like copyright laws... they were never meant to be used in perpetuity, but they are abused terribly.

Laws can start for good reasons and then get out of hand, especially when every Tom, Dick, and Harry wants a cut.
You're entitled to your opinion Dan of course. If you were dependent financially on the reliance of protected rights over your work, as I was for many years, you would perhaps see this differently. If someone was using even just a "little snippet" of my work for their own ends (to sell or promote something) then I would expect to be financially compensated. No compensation, no use work. Seems reasonable to me.

But you seem to believe that Tom, Dick and Harry shouldn’t be paid for the work they created, so there's not much more to say.

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post #31652 of 55443 Old 10-24-2015, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by rmilyard View Post
So question for all you running ATMOS at home. If had friends coming over for a movie what is the one movie you would play to them? They haven't heard anything in ATMOS before so be fun to see what they think.
Gravity. San Andreas. Mad Max: Fury Road. Gravity is the most 'obvious' use of Atmos. The other two are just phenomenal experiences in sound.
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post #31653 of 55443 Old 10-24-2015, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Nightlord View Post
Yes. No one else seems to care so someone will have to step up. :

People don't seem to mind if they are getting told by Dolby or Dts... Who have financial gains in it. I won't make a cent from my advices on the contrary...
But do you not see that your goals might not be my goals? For example, your goal is to have excellent sound at every seat, even when this compromises the best sound at one seat. That is a fine goal I agree - providing that you usually have more than one person watching the movie. My goal is the opposite: I want the best sound at the MLP seat and acceptably good sound at the other seats, mainly because 90% of the time I am watching a movie on my own. So if I followed your goal objective, I would end up with inferior sound 90% of the time (since it is impossible to have 100% sound at every seat).
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post #31654 of 55443 Old 10-24-2015, 01:47 PM
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If the room IS of non-square size, then consider my post withdrawn.
Not sure what your concern about square rooms is. I'm assuming you're thinking of standing waves and reflections?
That exists whether it's 2.1, 5.1 or 7.1 or atmos.

@rmilyard I personally would ignore that comment. There are many people with square rooms running atmos. But just as you would with ANY x.x system, you will potentially have acoustical issues based on placements and layout. I have a corner that is in desperate need of a trap at occasional times. Does that diminish my Atmos experience? Nope! It could be better I'm sure, but the world is crashing down and around me when I'm in my theater.
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post #31655 of 55443 Old 10-24-2015, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
If you mean that the 'Hollywood lawyers' are ensuring that people get paid for their creative efforts, then you are right. If you think that people getting paid for their work is a 'nightmare', then I am guessing you often say to your employer "don't bother paying me this week, it's fine....".
I would guess the distaste is for residuals that drive up the price of 'creative' work. Of course the people that designed and built the bridge don't get payment every time a car passes over it, etc, etc. but that is how the world works. And instead of just a payment for the work it must cover licensing, copyrights, copy protection schemes, lawyers, law suits, etc. etc.
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post #31656 of 55443 Old 10-24-2015, 03:20 PM
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I would guess the distaste is for residuals that drive up the price of 'creative' work. Of course the people that designed and built the bridge don't get payment every time a car passes over it, etc, etc. but that is how the world works. And instead of just a payment for the work it must cover licensing, copyrights, copy protection schemes, lawyers, law suits, etc. etc.
Not a good example. You can bet your xxx that if someone copied their design, specs, etc. that they would be getting paid. The physical bridge is not their property, unlike the artist who came up with the song (one good example) and sold a specific use to a record company who is in turn collecting fees based on said contract from those using it.

I find it hard to believe all the smart people who frequent this thread don't understand the need for Dick, Don, and whoever else to be paid for their work which is trademarked or copyrighted. I guess we should be complaining about Denon having to pay DTS, Dolby and Auro licensing fees too
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post #31657 of 55443 Old 10-24-2015, 03:41 PM
 
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This is an interesting discussion regarding Hollywood movie rights versus all the pirate movie sites out there...because movies are reaching higher and higher rewards @ the box office (many films are now making over $1 billion and more...Star Wars 7 will pass the $2 billion mark, I'm pretty sure), and google, youtube, and other sites are under pressure to not share copyright movie material...even in a free expression liberty country. ...Hey, right now as we speak large Hollywood amount of lawyers are cracking down on some large illegal sharing movie sites.

The contrast between the poor who cannot view movies in their own countries because the theaters are sparse, too far, or too expensive, and where the Blu-rays don't get there or are simply way too expensive, and the rich (we know who they are and we all love them equally as the poor) who can afford the best and largest hurdles of lawyers, is simply very very wide indeed.

Netflix is good, because it's cheap. ...The world simply need more like that for competition and with more and better and newer choices. Because after all everyone loves movies but not everyone can afford to buy Blu-rays @ $30 to $50 a pop. ...And in many world's places they don't even get there...what you got is illegal Chinese DVD cam copies.

As for 3D, it's more dimensional than 2D...just like Dolby Atmos versus Dolby TrueHD.

All this...is just my opinion. ...For all it's worth...and not.
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post #31658 of 55443 Old 10-24-2015, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
This is an interesting discussion regarding Hollywood movie rights versus all the pirate movie sites out there...because movies are reaching higher and higher rewards @ the box office (many films are now making over $1 billion and more...Star Wars 7 will pass the $2 billion mark, I'm pretty sure), and google, youtube, and other sites are under pressure to not share copyright movie material...even in a free expression liberty country. ...Hey, right now as we speak large Hollywood amount of lawyers are cracking down on some large illegal sharing movie sites.

The contrast between the poor who cannot view movies in their own countries because the theaters are sparse, too far, or too expensive, and where the Blu-rays don't get there or are simply way too expensive, and the rich (we know who they are and we all love them equally as the poor) who can afford the best and largest hurdles of lawyers, is simply very very wide indeed.

Netflix is good, because it's cheap. ...The world simply need more like that for competition and with more and better and newer choices. Because after all everyone loves movies but not everyone can afford to buy Blu-rays @ $30 to $50 a pop. ...And in many world's places they don't even get there...what you got is illegal Chinese DVD cam copies.

As for 3D, it's more dimensional than 2D...just like Dolby Atmos versus Dolby TrueHD.

All this...is just my opinion. ...For all it's worth...and not.
So stealing is now ok because there are poor people who can't watch movies? Just curious, but how poor are they if they have a device to watch the pirated film on? The truly poor wouldn't have a cell phone, laptop, pc, or tablet to view the stolen movie. I doubt they would have internet service to provide the means to download the movie.

Star Wars is bad because it will make too much money. So Socialism has now made it to the silver screen.
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post #31659 of 55443 Old 10-24-2015, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Gravity. San Andreas. Mad Max: Fury Road. Gravity is the most 'obvious' use of Atmos. The other two are just phenomenal experiences in sound.
Gravity, I really disliked that movie Sandro B moaning!!!!! OMG

George Cluny did all he could but could not save it
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post #31660 of 55443 Old 10-24-2015, 04:32 PM
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Gravity, I really disliked that movie Sandro B moaning!!!!! OMG

George Cluny did all he could but could not save it
I too agree Sandra was a little over the top. One thing to consider is the likes and dislikes of the type of movies they enjoy. We here at AVS will watch a lousy movie just to hear the Atmos mix I like Dracula, Mad Max, Insurgent, unbroken,

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post #31661 of 55443 Old 10-24-2015, 04:40 PM
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I'm happy to break this news...

Add two more titles to the Atmos list.

"Man of Steel" and "Edge of Tomorrow" (easily one of the best sounding films of 2014 IMO and a really good Atmos mix...)

AVAILABLE TODAY!!!!

STREAMING ON VUDU IN DOLBY DIGITSL PLUS

Two big caveats, however....

Only available on Vudu on the Roku 4 box...

And you must have a 4K set to buy these titles...

I almost must say the Roku 4 is flaky at best. Needs much more time to work out the kinks.

But I can confirm Atmos on these two films (also in Dolby Vision....)
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post #31662 of 55443 Old 10-24-2015, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
What does TFA's ticket sales have to do 3D? Consumers don't have a choice to see the movie in 2D IMAX, so it isn't s fair representation of demand. In Seattle the premiere theater is the Cinerama, which is a single screen premium theater. They decided not to even show it in 3D because the overwhelming trend for their mixed showings always results in overwhelming support and sales for 2D showings over the 3D ones. And this is a theater that charges the same regardless and uses a dual laser projector setup for 3D to ensure the same brightness in 3D as 2D. If IMAX did dual showings, how many would prefer 2D over 3D? I know I would. I also find it telling that the 3D IMAX theater in Seattle, which is recently upgraded to dual 4K laser projectors and the new IMAX audio system still had weekend tickets available yesterday but the Cinerama (which seats more) sold out for the weekend and first few days after that within the first day, despite being 2D only. Demand is hard to gauge when the only way to watch something in a premium theater is 3D because the consumer isn't given a choice.
ALL shows sold out... 2D or 3D. If they hated 3D that much they wouldn't have bought 3D tickets... pretty simple.
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post #31663 of 55443 Old 10-24-2015, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
I'm happy to break this news...

Add two more titles to the Atmos list.

"Man of Steel" and "Edge of Tomorrow" (easily one of the best sounding films of 2014 IMO and a really good Atmos mix...)

AVAILABLE TODAY!!!!

STREAMING ON VUDU IN DOLBY DIGITSL PLUS

Two big caveats, however....

Only available on Vudu on the Roku 4 box...

And you must have a 4K set to buy these titles...

I almost must say the Roku 4 is flaky at best. Needs much more time to work out the kinks.

But I can confirm Atmos on these two films (also in Dolby Vision....)
Cool, but I think I'll wait for Edge of Tomorrow on UHD Blu-ray. Man of Steel can get flushed for all I care.

Listen up, studios! Dolby Atmos Lite™ print-outs must stop!!
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post #31664 of 55443 Old 10-24-2015, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Aras_Volodka View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
What does TFA's ticket sales have to do 3D? Consumers don't have a choice to see the movie in 2D IMAX, so it isn't s fair representation of demand. In Seattle the premiere theater is the Cinerama, which is a single screen premium theater. They decided not to even show it in 3D because the overwhelming trend for their mixed showings always results in overwhelming support and sales for 2D showings over the 3D ones. And this is a theater that charges the same regardless and uses a dual laser projector setup for 3D to ensure the same brightness in 3D as 2D. If IMAX did dual showings, how many would prefer 2D over 3D? I know I would. I also find it telling that the 3D IMAX theater in Seattle, which is recently upgraded to dual 4K laser projectors and the new IMAX audio system still had weekend tickets available yesterday but the Cinerama (which seats more) sold out for the weekend and first few days after that within the first day, despite being 2D only. Demand is hard to gauge when the only way to watch something in a premium theater is 3D because the consumer isn't given a choice.
ALL shows sold out... 2D or 3D. If they hated 3D that much they wouldn't have bought 3D tickets... pretty simple.
It isn't that simple. With IMAX there is no choice of 2D shows or 3D shows but people want the massive screen experience. So they either suck it up and do 3D or they settle for a smaller theater. There is no easy choice. If there was one IMAX showing it in 2D and one in 3D that would be a more interesting comparison for attendance. But saying 3D is successful simply because there is no other option is not a fair gauge of consumer interest.
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post #31665 of 55443 Old 10-24-2015, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
I'm happy to break this news...

Add two more titles to the Atmos list.

"Man of Steel" and "Edge of Tomorrow" (easily one of the best sounding films of 2014 IMO and a really good Atmos mix...)

AVAILABLE TODAY!!!!

STREAMING ON VUDU IN DOLBY DIGITSL PLUS

Two big caveats, however....

Only available on Vudu on the Roku 4 box...

And you must have a 4K set to buy these titles...

I almost must say the Roku 4 is flaky at best. Needs much more time to work out the kinks.

But I can confirm Atmos on these two films (also in Dolby Vision....)

My premonitions I ranted about a few weeks ago r slowly coming true. We r seeing the first wave of atmos releases being streamed.....requiring hdcp 2.2. Not available with 1080p format. So u have to use dsu on DD+. This is why I'm glad I went 2.2 on everything. Makes the upcoming purchase of a jvc 2.2 pj even more attractive. Either that or an hd fury. Curious if anyone has tried hd fury with streaming of atmos on non 2.2 chain?
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post #31666 of 55443 Old 10-24-2015, 05:54 PM
 
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So stealing is now ok because there are poor people who can't watch movies? Just curious, but how poor are they if they have a device to watch the pirated film on? The truly poor wouldn't have a cell phone, laptop, pc, or tablet to view the stolen movie. I doubt they would have internet service to provide the means to download the movie.

Star Wars is bad because it will make too much money. So Socialism has now made it to the silver screen.
Did I say stealing was good...no no no...I said Dolby Atmos was the way to go. ...And Netflix was cheap.
I think you were simply assuming, you read what wasn't in the post.

We're adults here...with a job...with a good income...and we can afford all the 3D Blu-ray Atmos there are.

Last edited by NorthSky; 10-25-2015 at 12:18 AM. Reason: I was having dinner, and could only used one hand, ...no way to have capital letters...fixed now.
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post #31667 of 55443 Old 10-24-2015, 06:59 PM
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Amazon Instant video was supposed to offer Atmos content but i don't see anything except for a few demo clips.
Geez what happened to the Atmos capable Amazon Fire HDX? Its been a year since that came out and we still have nothing.
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post #31668 of 55443 Old 10-25-2015, 02:06 AM
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Finally got the ceiling and side surrounds mounted, wired, and amp hooked up. That was A LOT of work. Took me a solid two days. Aside from the nuts around here, I just don't see many people going through that. Upfirers will be popular I think.

Haven't really listened to anything but some Palladia, but I have to say the upmixer did a nice job of just adding a touch of space to the presentation. Very subtle, but best that way so as not to draw attention.
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post #31669 of 55443 Old 10-25-2015, 02:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Stoked21 View Post
My premonitions I ranted about a few weeks ago r slowly coming true. We r seeing the first wave of atmos releases being streamed.....requiring hdcp 2.2. Not available with 1080p format. So u have to use dsu on DD+. This is why I'm glad I went 2.2 on everything. Makes the upcoming purchase of a jvc 2.2 pj even more attractive. Either that or an hd fury. Curious if anyone has tried hd fury with streaming of atmos on non 2.2 chain?
I am sure that someone posted this somewhere, but I forget. What happens is your equipment is NOT 2.2 certified?

Does it downgrade to 1080p...or just refuse to path any signal at all?

Similar question re audio--will Atmos pass thru or get blocked?

I would hope that they do not kill the proverbial golden goose...

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post #31670 of 55443 Old 10-25-2015, 03:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
And you must have a 4K set to buy these titles...
So HDCP 2.2 or 4k display or both?

Quote:
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I almost must say the Roku 4 is flaky at best. Needs much more time to work out the kinks.
What kinks?

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post #31671 of 55443 Old 10-25-2015, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
Amazon Instant video was supposed to offer Atmos content but i don't see anything except for a few demo clips.
Geez what happened to the Atmos capable Amazon Fire HDX? Its been a year since that came out and we still have nothing.
What are the demo clips so that I can try them out?

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post #31672 of 55443 Old 10-25-2015, 05:12 AM
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Not sure what your concern about square rooms is. I'm assuming you're thinking of standing waves and reflections?
That exists whether it's 2.1, 5.1 or 7.1 or atmos.
I never said anything contrary to that. But you don't want to listen to anything in a square room, so if you have one... That has to be fixed before even contemplating what sould system you want.

Now it wasn't the case, so I withdrew my comment. But if it had been a true square room, shrinking it in one dimension would help a lot, and the shrunken space could have been put to good use too. (Spaces for speakers, bass trap etc)

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post #31673 of 55443 Old 10-25-2015, 05:18 AM - Thread Starter
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But you don't want to listen to anything in a square room, so if you have one... That has to be fixed before even contemplating what sould system you want.
Nonsense. Stop looking at room simulations. Start measuring real rooms. A square room is in no way more of a problem than a rectangular room. Location of source and listener and acoustical properties of boundaries are dominating factors.

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post #31674 of 55443 Old 10-25-2015, 05:59 AM
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Nonsense. Stop looking at room simulations. Start measuring real rooms. A square room is in no way more of a problem than a rectangular room. Location of source and listener and acoustical properties of boundaries are dominating factors.
What is a room simulation? Never seen one.

I stay with physics, thank you. But visualizing the interaction of fundamental resonances will clearly tell you why equal distances, equal resonance frequencies are a very bad thing (unless you go to the measures of taming them, then you possibly could turn it to a benefit as it will be one less frequency to tame). But taming those frequencies requires space in any case...

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post #31675 of 55443 Old 10-25-2015, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
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What is a room simulation? Never seen one.
Open up REW, click "Room Sim".

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I stay with physics, thank you. But visualizing the interaction of fundamental resonances will clearly tell you why equal distances, equal resonance frequencies are a very bad thing (unless you go to the measures of taming them, then you possibly could turn it to a benefit as it will be one less frequency to tame). But taming those frequencies requires space in any case...
Oh now suddenly you do pretend to know what a room simulation is Anyway, you don't seem to have much experience with real rooms otherwise you wouldn't make the claims you made.
By the way, there are pretty effective ways to tame low frequency modal ringing that require not much space – equalization, active absorption or plate/limp mass absorbers come to mind.
And again, whether modes have a detrimental effect largely depends where source (speaker) and receiver (listener) is located.
Knowing physics is fundamental to understanding acoustics. Measuring is fundamental to understanding the sound field in real rooms. If you do both you will find that claims like "square rooms are generally bad" are nonsense and therefore not helpful in improving sound reproduction.
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post #31676 of 55443 Old 10-25-2015, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Stoked21 View Post
Not sure what your concern about square rooms is. I'm assuming you're thinking of standing waves and reflections?
That exists whether it's 2.1, 5.1 or 7.1 or atmos.

@rmilyard I personally would ignore that comment. There are many people with square rooms running atmos. But just as you would with ANY x.x system, you will potentially have acoustical issues based on placements and layout. I have a corner that is in desperate need of a trap at occasional times. Does that diminish my Atmos experience? Nope! It could be better I'm sure, but the world is crashing down and around me when I'm in my theater.
Agreed. My room is square and the sound here is really good. It is harder to get good sound in a square room but it is by no means impossible. Careful placement of speakers and subs, acoustic treatments and Dirac Live all contribute to overcoming the inherent difficulties of a square room IME. If I was designing a room from scratch, would I choose rectangular? You bet. But we have to work with what we have, as in all areas of life.
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post #31677 of 55443 Old 10-25-2015, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by cdelena View Post
I would guess the distaste is for residuals that drive up the price of 'creative' work. Of course the people that designed and built the bridge don't get payment every time a car passes over it, etc, etc. but that is how the world works. And instead of just a payment for the work it must cover licensing, copyrights, copy protection schemes, lawyers, law suits, etc. etc.
Your analogy is not a good one. If a bridge is built by private enterprise then it is entirely possible for the builders/designers to be paid by the amount of traffic which passes over it. This would be called a toll bridge. If the bridge is built from public funds, then everyone who passes over it does pay for it constantly through taxation. Movies are privately funded endeavors and as such those who create them have the right to be paid for their work. If this "drives up the price" to an unacceptable level then people have a simple choice: do not pay to see the movie. It isn’t compulsory.

But it isn't really open for discussion since the contracts between the creators of the work and the distributors, end-users, middlemen etc is laid out clearly in advance and it is what it is. I used to charge clients royalties on how many times they printed my advertising copy. If they used it for just, say, 100,000 impressions, they would pay $x. If they used it for 1,000,000 impressions they would pay $Y. And if they used it for more than that then they would pay an agreed price per 1000 impressions going forward. This was all agreed in advance and was fair to both sides. If my work was extremely successful, the client would want to use it again and again (some clients used the same work for 10 years or more) and as they made more money, so did I. If my work was not successful, the client had limited downside exposure and paid less for the work than if it had been a single price open-ended deal. You can imagine therefore if I discovered that the client had made 2,000,000 impressions but only paid for 1,000,000 that I would be pretty pissed, and would take steps to prevent the work being used again until payment had been made.

It is just the same in almost all fields of creative endeavor. Movies, literature, computer software, artwork, music etc. The fees which you think might 'drive up the price' don't seem to have harmed any of those businesses or priced many consumers out of the market. If artists are not fairly recompensed for their work, they will stop doing it. And then no more movies, no more music etc. Bad deal for everyone.

I say to those who object to paying for the content they consume - do you regularly work for free for your employer? Notice Dan didn't respond to that question when I asked it of him. My guess is the he doesn't. But he clearly believes others should.
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post #31678 of 55443 Old 10-25-2015, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
Not a good example. You can bet your xxx that if someone copied their design, specs, etc. that they would be getting paid. The physical bridge is not their property, unlike the artist who came up with the song (one good example) and sold a specific use to a record company who is in turn collecting fees based on said contract from those using it.

I find it hard to believe all the smart people who frequent this thread don't understand the need for Dick, Don, and whoever else to be paid for their work which is trademarked or copyrighted. I guess we should be complaining about Denon having to pay DTS, Dolby and Auro licensing fees too
You have hit the nail squarely on the head Steve.
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post #31679 of 55443 Old 10-25-2015, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Open up REW, click "Room Sim".
Is that available for iPad?

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Oh now you suddenly pretend you do know what a room simulation is Anyway, you don't seem to have much experience with real rooms otherwise you wouldn't make the claims you made.
By the way, there are pretty effective ways to tame low frequency modal ringing that require not much space – equalization, active absorption or plate absorbers come to mind.
No, that's just thinking. Simulation is something a machine does for you.

Band aids that all should be avoided as long as possible.

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And again, whether modes have a detrimental effect largely depends where source (speaker) and receiver (listener) is located.
ListenerS. It's supposed to sound good for everyone in the room, not just one sweetspot.

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Knowing physics is fundamental in understanding acoustics. Measuring is fundamental in understanding real rooms. If you do both you will find that claims like "square rooms are generally bad" are nonsense and therefore not helpful in improving sound reproduction.
Glad you at least try to appreciate physics.

Of course it's a simplification. If the different walls exhibit different behaviour it starts getting less valid. But one should be able to assume as a starting point that a room has been built with the same type walls unless the construction company was tripping. In this case, all the data availale was size, so of course the rest of the analysis has to be based on assumptions. When you are on location, or by other means, and have all the facts, the solutions may have to change.

But no acoustician in the world would answer the question "what kind of geometry for a room would you like to start off with?" with "a square one".

Codename - the Larch theater
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post #31680 of 55443 Old 10-25-2015, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
So stealing is now ok because there are poor people who can't watch movies? Just curious, but how poor are they if they have a device to watch the pirated film on? The truly poor wouldn't have a cell phone, laptop, pc, or tablet to view the stolen movie. I doubt they would have internet service to provide the means to download the movie.

Star Wars is bad because it will make too much money. So Socialism has now made it to the silver screen.
Again, a very relevant point. Poverty is not a license to steal. While one might excuse stealing if one is too poor to buy food, this does not apply to stealing luxury goods, which is what we are discussing. It's pretty simple: if you can’t afford to go see a movie, don't go see a movie. Like I can't afford a Gulfstream V. So I don't have one. I don't use the fact that I can't afford one as justification for stealing one. Sheesh.

And what is the betting that the majority of pirated movies are watched in first world countries? They are not stolen by the extreme poor - they are stolen by people who want something but don't want to pay for it.
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