The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 1234 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #36991 of 58861 Old 01-24-2016, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post
I agree with buying media but the prices on ebay for these sample/demo discs are just people gouging because some of us are dumb enough to pay for it.

I would have no problem paying a reasonable price for the demo discs if they were made available but ~ $80 is just absurd.

Dolby has to understand that what they are doing is only encouraging people to obtain these via questionable methods, at minimum there should be a method to obtain the disc(s) legitimately without working in the industry (it's not the people working in the industry that will make Atmos at home succeed, it's the consumers).

Just my $.02

- Jason
They should include a copy with the purchase of a dolby atmos enabled receiver.

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post #36992 of 58861 Old 01-24-2016, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Jarery View Post
I posted the below in the "calling all polkies" thread but i believe a more informed answer here, since I'm trying to find the importance of matching all 4 height speakers for a Atmos setup...

Current situation
Fronts - Polk Rti A9's
Center - Paradign cc209v6
Surrounds - Polk RTI A5's (soon to be anyways)
Subwoofers Klipsch R115sw and Velodyne deq-10

Receiver Denon X6200w
Ext Amp Emotiva XPA-5
Room - 23' x 14' x 9.5' open on one side to another room

I wish to add 4 height speakers. While I'm at it, i wish to replace my rear surrounds (paradign 290v6). So may as well go all Polk to keep timber, blah, blah, blah. My options are RTiA1 and/or OWM5

My new heights positions will be RH at ceiling/wall corner 8' behind seating on 9.5' high ceilings, and either TF or TM mounted underneath a beam 4 or 5' in front of the seating.

Now the choices where i need advice..

Back surrounds will be RTi A1
Rear Heights can be either RTi A1 or OWM5 mounted on wall up close to ceiling
The other heights have to be owm5 due to mounting

So whats better for rear heights, OWM5 or RTiA1?

I can have either the rear 4 all the same (RTiA1) or all 4 heights the same (OWM5's), I can't do all 6 the same due to mounting so 2 will always be different.

Sounds confusing after i read it myself so heres the options.

Option 1 - Rear Surround RTiA1 - Rear Height RTi A1 - Top Front OWM5
Option 2 - Rear Surround RTiA1 - Rear Height OWM5 - Top Front OWM5

How important to keep the heights the same ?
If it were me I'd go with four OWM5 for the heights, both for consistency and the simplicity / versatility of mounting options.
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post #36993 of 58861 Old 01-24-2016, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by dannybee View Post
They should include a copy with the purchase of a dolby atmos enabled receiver.
Agreed but I think there have been some AVR's that have had it in the box (it should be with every unit sold however since the licensing fees have been paid and the discs have been created). You can be certain there are many buying Atmos enabled AVR's that have no idea what it is and assume that simply hooking to their existing 5.1 layout means they are now ready for Atmos, the disc could help to explain and show the difference.


Holding the discs hostage is completely the wrong approach.


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post #36994 of 58861 Old 01-24-2016, 06:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post
Agreed but I think there have been some AVR's that have had it in the box (it should be with every unit sold however since the licensing fees have been paid and the discs have been created). You can be certain there are many buying Atmos enabled AVR's that have no idea what it is and assume that simply hooking to their existing 5.1 layout means they are now ready for Atmos, the disc could help to explain and show the difference.

Holding the discs hostage is completely the wrong approach.

- Jason
I agree with that idea Jason. When introducing a new surround sound format, it's a very good incentive/encouragement to supply a test/demo disc with the units having that new surround sound decoder. ...So that you have some guide to set things right with the new product you just purchased.

Marantz* did it with their AV8802 pre/pro, but not in all of them, only a batch or so. And I believe that it was only a Dolby Atmos demo disc (an earlier version), without tests for your speaker's calibration.

P.S. SteveH's own generosity, on his own gracious will, did put some Dolby Atmos demo discs in the box for some of his customers.

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post #36995 of 58861 Old 01-24-2016, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by dannybee View Post
They should include a copy with the purchase of a dolby atmos enabled receiver.
Tell me about it.
When I asked Denon they pointed fingers to Dolby and retailer. When I asked the retailer, he pointed his fingers to Dolby and Denon.
Dolby is common in both and the root cause of this mess.
I don't care for what copyright issues that have with studios and I am not interested in those trailers (when I can watch the whole movie).
All other Dolby only stuff is important for everyone here at AVS. Dolby should have at least made it available through some channel. But the failed (even the format is success).
On the other hand, when I asked Auro, the disk was at my door in about a week all the way from Belgium. They were awesome (but the format.... )
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post #36996 of 58861 Old 01-24-2016, 07:58 PM
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Marantz did it with their AV8802 pre/pro, but not in all of them, only a batch or so. And I believe that it was only a Dolby Atmos demo disc (an earlier version), without tests for your speaker's calibration.
100% untrue.

Steve H who is a dealer did that for some of his customers.

No CE that I know of has EVER included discs with the introduction of a new codec.

Auro has provided them with the paid $200 upgrade fee for their codec.
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post #36997 of 58861 Old 01-24-2016, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
100% untrue.

Steve H who is a dealer did that for some of his customers.

No CE that I know of has EVER included discs with the introduction of a new codec.

Auro has provided them with the paid $200 upgrade fee for their codec.
Exactly. Steve had a limited number and gave them to his customers. As for Auro, I emailed them asking for one and the sent it free of charge.

*Still looking for the latest disc, FM.
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post #36998 of 58861 Old 01-24-2016, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
Auro has provided them with the paid $200 upgrade fee for their codec.
Marc, Auro provides the demo disk on request for free.. They even ship internationally at their cost.
Yeah, but the commercial take up of that format is another story.
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post #36999 of 58861 Old 01-24-2016, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
Auro has provided them with the paid $200 upgrade fee for their codec.
Marc, Auro provides the demo disk on request for free.. They even ship internationally at their cost.
Yeah, but the commercial take up of that format is another story.
Denon was supposed to send them to those who purchased the license.

When I emailed Auro about it, I was specifically asked if I had purchased the upgrade...

But I do know of you and others who have received them no questions asked... As a small company which has very little market penetration (only available on two mainstream product lines) and being a smaller company they are much more suited to handle such distribution (yes... Dolly's size actually makes it harder to do so...)

IMO since they're charging extra for the codec, and have zero domestic filmed content for their users, I understand their motivation to get demo material into the hands of consumers.

I fully understand why Dolby doesn't put the resources, time and money into making a disc that can be distributed to the general public.

The argument that it would help to sell processors is why they provide the disks to retailers and installers. And that is what the limited use licenses are for on the film/video clips.

The trailers are readily available to stream for many consumers, and their is plenty of commercial content in the marketplace at this point to show off ones system.

I've spoken to my contacts about the desire to get the disc by some memebrs here (which is why they gave me a bunch to give out...).

I'm hopeful that one or more studios will put the trailers and demos on some of their commercial tites...
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post #37000 of 58861 Old 01-24-2016, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by dvdwilly3 View Post
I have 2 rows of seats in my home theater. The first row is on the floor and the second row is on an 8" riser.

So while my fronts and center are on the same plane as the front row, they are below the second row. The tweeters fire at ear level for the front row, but, obviously, not the back.

Would I be well served by putting my front towers on something like Primacoustic RX9s? Not necessarily for the acostic treatment, but to get them closer to ear level for the back row (around 4" thick...).

Anyone with multi-rows tried anything like it? That is, raising the fronts?
I would try a little experiment.

Have people sit in all seating positions. If every person can't see all of the speakers, then you should adjust positions until they can. The biggest problem is usually the center channel speaker which most place below the screen. There is almost no way a second row can see this speaker. This is bad and will result in poor dialog as second row does not have a clear line for the sound. Unlike light, sound will bend around objects a bit, so it is not a complete kill, but there will be a very distinct difference in the sound that the person who can see the speaker and the person in the shadow of an object or other person is able to hear. For left right front and side surround speakers, you may be able to move them side to side and front to back in the room to get a clear shot to all listeners with them still at the lowest possible height, but in many cases, a small increase in height can do an even better job of getting the best sound to all seats.

Depending on the size of your screen with a flat screen TV, you may find that the speaker above the screen will work much better. For a front projection system, behind the middle to top 1/3 of an acoustic transparent projection screen is the best for coverage as well as placing the sound source in the right place for the image.

For those who think the sound level from the middle to the end of a couch is no big deal, keep in mind that sound level drops off with the inverse square law. If you double the distance from the speaker, the sound drops 6 db. This is a hug drop for a fairly small change in a small room. A person on the end of a couch in a 10 foot wide room could easily be just 2 feet from the near side surround speaker and 8 feet from the far side surround speaker. This 4 x difference in distance works out to 12 db in level shift. A combination of moving them either up and/or to the side, and aiming them at the further listener can greatly reduce the level difference. Ear height in my room with my couch measures at 43 inches. My front L, C, R speakers have the HF horns at 63 inches behind an AT screen. 1.25 x 43 inches is about 54 inches. I will probably end up a little higher than that. Trying to stay under 60 inches.

In a perfect world, which does not exist, having the speakers at a true ear level does in theory give you the ability to pan a full 180 degrees from left to right over your head and front to back as well, and the full 360 around you, so that is the idea. If I raise the speakers to 5 feet (60 inches) on my 12 foot wide room, the center seating position has a pan range of 154 degrees. That is not losing much at all for the far better coverage on 2 rows of seats. With my current screen size, the 63 inch high front speakers have the horns very close to the ideal 2/3 up the screen. Lowering the front speakers to "Ear Height" would not only hurt the room coverage, but it would also make the sound no longer come from the ideal area of the screen.

As for which top speakers to use....
Think of it like this. The speaker names and angles are relative to a perfect main listening point. If your couch is against or near the back wall, and you use "top front" and "top rear" even thought the rear ones are basically straight above you, then it is just like sitting a little behind the MLP in a movie theatre. To make the pans correct, you should also have your side surround speakers ahead of you a bit to land close to mid way between the front and rear top speakers. A sound panned halfway back in the room will be evenly between the top front and top rear speakers, but will be directly in the side surround speaker. Front wide speakers appear to render close to the top front speakers as far as angle, or distance back in the room.

Due to the shape of my room (12 feet wide and 18 feet long with an 8 foot ceiling), I am thinking a bit unconventional. The front pair seems easy, I think I will use the "Top front" and have them about 6 to 7 feet back from the front wall. This does place them close to the correct angle in my 18 foot long room with the couch back 12 feet from the screen. The angle from straight forward is 36 degrees up, and from center channel, it is still 28 degrees up.

For the rear height position, I am really leaning at going to "rear height" and just using my existing rear surrounds for that purpose. They are just 9 inches below the ceiling at the back of the room now and the right distance apart too, with ball mounts, and aimed down to my front row seated ear height. From my front couch listening position, this places the rear height speakers at 31.4 degrees up behind me, close to the same angle as the front height is up. This is the same as 148.6 degrees from straight ahead, which is also in range for "rear height" speakers. I will then just add new back surrounds under them. Since my second row of seat will be on a riser of about 8 inches, I will put my new back surround at 63 inches like the screen channels. Seated ear height with the riser comes out to 52 inches. This 11 inches will keep the speakers from blasting into the heads of the back row seats.

for complete curiosity, I ran the trig on the front row seat for the front to back overhead pan angle range and I came up with 156 degrees of angle from front screen over my head to back surround.

I so wish I could afford a unit that could do 9.1.6
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post #37001 of 58861 Old 01-24-2016, 10:33 PM
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Good info. I'm in the process of updating out dedicated HT and with the three competing options,what is a good option for speaker configuration?, thanks. SJ
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post #37002 of 58861 Old 01-24-2016, 10:35 PM
 
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Here's an idea: Movie studios who endorsed Dolby Atmos can promote the new 3D immersive sound by putting Dolby Atmos audio calibration test signals for all speakers (7.1.4 and 9.1.2) in the Special features of their Blu-ray discs, and also in the new UHD Blu-ray discs. ...Like THX did in the past...with video parameters for best picture calibration and audio test signals for best balanced sound everywhere.

That would be a good jump start. ...From Warner Brothers, Universal, Lionsgate Films, Paramount studios, Sony/Columbia.
...Then on UHD BR from FOX and Disney studios.

Online downloads help too; for Dolby Atmos speaker calibration audio test signals. It's been eighteen months that Dolby Atmos is in the people's home; more homes can benefit. And more homes means more Atmos product sales. It's good for the product's manufacturers, and it's good for their customers.
Everyone benefits, Dolby Atmos (Laboratories) and the movie studios included.

Last edited by NorthSky; 01-24-2016 at 10:40 PM.
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post #37003 of 58861 Old 01-25-2016, 01:44 AM
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Never mind this weekend the question will be "Where can I get a DTS:X Demo disc?"
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post #37004 of 58861 Old 01-25-2016, 01:49 AM
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Good info. I'm in the process of updating out dedicated HT and with the three competing options,what is a good option for speaker configuration?, thanks. SJ
With the DTS:X update info just released Denon are proposing FH and RH as a 3D catch all.
Go figure
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post #37005 of 58861 Old 01-25-2016, 02:38 AM
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Never mind this weekend the question will be "Where can I get a DTS:X Demo disc?"
Already out I have one.

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post #37006 of 58861 Old 01-25-2016, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by GXMnow View Post
I would try a little experiment.

Have people sit in all seating positions. If every person can't see all of the speakers, then you should adjust positions until they can. The biggest problem is usually the center channel speaker which most place below the screen. There is almost no way a second row can see this speaker. This is bad and will result in poor dialog as second row does not have a clear line for the sound. Unlike light, sound will bend around objects a bit, so it is not a complete kill, but there will be a very distinct difference in the sound that the person who can see the speaker and the person in the shadow of an object or other person is able to hear. For left right front and side surround speakers, you may be able to move them side to side and front to back in the room to get a clear shot to all listeners with them still at the lowest possible height, but in many cases, a small increase in height can do an even better job of getting the best sound to all seats.

Depending on the size of your screen with a flat screen TV, you may find that the speaker above the screen will work much better. For a front projection system, behind the middle to top 1/3 of an acoustic transparent projection screen is the best for coverage as well as placing the sound source in the right place for the image.

For those who think the sound level from the middle to the end of a couch is no big deal, keep in mind that sound level drops off with the inverse square law. If you double the distance from the speaker, the sound drops 6 db. This is a hug drop for a fairly small change in a small room. A person on the end of a couch in a 10 foot wide room could easily be just 2 feet from the near side surround speaker and 8 feet from the far side surround speaker. This 4 x difference in distance works out to 12 db in level shift. A combination of moving them either up and/or to the side, and aiming them at the further listener can greatly reduce the level difference. Ear height in my room with my couch measures at 43 inches. My front L, C, R speakers have the HF horns at 63 inches behind an AT screen. 1.25 x 43 inches is about 54 inches. I will probably end up a little higher than that. Trying to stay under 60 inches.

In a perfect world, which does not exist, having the speakers at a true ear level does in theory give you the ability to pan a full 180 degrees from left to right over your head and front to back as well, and the full 360 around you, so that is the idea. If I raise the speakers to 5 feet (60 inches) on my 12 foot wide room, the center seating position has a pan range of 154 degrees. That is not losing much at all for the far better coverage on 2 rows of seats. With my current screen size, the 63 inch high front speakers have the horns very close to the ideal 2/3 up the screen. Lowering the front speakers to "Ear Height" would not only hurt the room coverage, but it would also make the sound no longer come from the ideal area of the screen.

As for which top speakers to use....
Think of it like this. The speaker names and angles are relative to a perfect main listening point. If your couch is against or near the back wall, and you use "top front" and "top rear" even thought the rear ones are basically straight above you, then it is just like sitting a little behind the MLP in a movie theatre. To make the pans correct, you should also have your side surround speakers ahead of you a bit to land close to mid way between the front and rear top speakers. A sound panned halfway back in the room will be evenly between the top front and top rear speakers, but will be directly in the side surround speaker. Front wide speakers appear to render close to the top front speakers as far as angle, or distance back in the room.

Due to the shape of my room (12 feet wide and 18 feet long with an 8 foot ceiling), I am thinking a bit unconventional. The front pair seems easy, I think I will use the "Top front" and have them about 6 to 7 feet back from the front wall. This does place them close to the correct angle in my 18 foot long room with the couch back 12 feet from the screen. The angle from straight forward is 36 degrees up, and from center channel, it is still 28 degrees up.

For the rear height position, I am really leaning at going to "rear height" and just using my existing rear surrounds for that purpose. They are just 9 inches below the ceiling at the back of the room now and the right distance apart too, with ball mounts, and aimed down to my front row seated ear height. From my front couch listening position, this places the rear height speakers at 31.4 degrees up behind me, close to the same angle as the front height is up. This is the same as 148.6 degrees from straight ahead, which is also in range for "rear height" speakers. I will then just add new back surrounds under them. Since my second row of seat will be on a riser of about 8 inches, I will put my new back surround at 63 inches like the screen channels. Seated ear height with the riser comes out to 52 inches. This 11 inches will keep the speakers from blasting into the heads of the back row seats.

for complete curiosity, I ran the trig on the front row seat for the front to back overhead pan angle range and I came up with 156 degrees of angle from front screen over my head to back surround.

I so wish I could afford a unit that could do 9.1.6
GMXnow, thanks very much for the detailed response. You are the only one who responded to this question. It is appropriate that you were the one. Our rooms are very similar. Mine is 14 1/2' wide x 19 1/2' long laid out along the length, i.e. screen is at the front of the 19 1/2'. My ceiling is 8' high along 1/3 of the right side (facing the screen) and 9' along the left 2/3.

Our speaker layouts are somewhat similar, particularly the heights. Don't get me wrong, the sound is excellent as it is, but I know that physically the tweeter on the front towers is firing into the seats on the front row.

As I am thinking about this more, I have the mic, etc. to run REW, but I have not run it yet. So, if I ran a sweep at, say, the middle of the front fow, and again at the middle of the second row, that would show literally any differences between the two rows, wouldn't it?

I do have the center channel sitting on top of a console below the screen. I got an isolation pad that is about 2" thick and provides about a 5 degree up tilt. It improved dialogue considerably.

Okay, now I have some more things to do. Your answer helps me considerably. Thaks again.

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post #37007 of 58861 Old 01-25-2016, 05:11 AM
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I'll make one more comment on this and then leave it alone. Another dead horse like side surround locations and absolute adherence to Dolby Specs. regardless of the situation.

RE: "I fully understand why Dolby doesn't put the resources, time and money into making a disc that can be distributed to the general public. The argument that it would help to sell processors is why they provide the disks to retailers and installers. And that is what the limited use licenses are for on the film/video clips."

If your true goal is "Mass Adoption" for Dolby Atmos, then marketing wise, you would do everything you can to get the technology/"Buzz" into the hands of the public. Providing a Dolby Atmos reference demo disc - - whether it's Dolby alone or in a partnership with the movie studios makes a lot of sense. In fact, a download site would be even better. That way, early adopters could show off their system to their friends & help generate additional buzz about the technology. Stores like Best Buy could put on a Dolby Atmos reference disc and loop it so people could hear the added difference Dolby Atmos means to a soundtrack.

EVERYONE along the Dolby Atmos food chain would benefit - - manufacturers of AVR's/Pre-Processors, Dolby Atmos speakers, speaker manufacturers, movie theaters, movie studios, sales and rentals of Dolby Atmos encoded movies - - anyone who is looking to sell more product/service. O.K. - you can download trailers but who the hell wants to do that?

Another example of marketing gone wrong and a great topic for the Harvard Business Review.
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post #37008 of 58861 Old 01-25-2016, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
I fully understand why Dolby doesn't put the resources, time and money into making a disc that can be distributed to the general public.
I fail to understand one thing though. Dolby has produced 3 disks until now.
IMHO
- They do have resource, time and money to put together the content 3 times. With my limited knowledge I can say that is major cost.
- But they don't have small %of that same cost to press extra copies (minus the copyrighted stuff may be)?
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post #37009 of 58861 Old 01-25-2016, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post
I'll make one more comment on this and then leave it alone. Another dead horse like side surround locations and absolute adherence to Dolby Specs. regardless of the situation.

RE: "I fully understand why Dolby doesn't put the resources, time and money into making a disc that can be distributed to the general public. The argument that it would help to sell processors is why they provide the disks to retailers and installers. And that is what the limited use licenses are for on the film/video clips."

If your true goal is "Mass Adoption" for Dolby Atmos, then marketing wise, you would do everything you can to get the technology/"Buzz" into the hands of the public. Providing a Dolby Atmos reference demo disc - - whether it's Dolby alone or in a partnership with the movie studios makes a lot of sense. In fact, a download site would be even better. That way, early adopters could show off their system to their friends & help generate additional buzz about the technology. Stores like Best Buy could put on a Dolby Atmos reference disc and loop it so people could hear the added difference Dolby Atmos means to a soundtrack.

EVERYONE along the Dolby Atmos food chain would benefit - - manufacturers of AVR's/Pre-Processors, Dolby Atmos speakers, speaker manufacturers, movie theaters, movie studios, sales and rentals of Dolby Atmos encoded movies - - anyone who is looking to sell more product/service. O.K. - you can download trailers but who the hell wants to do that?

Another example of marketing gone wrong and a great topic for the Harvard Business Review.

Sensible points. Even studios would benefit with demo material, as a certain percentage of viewers would be interested in owning the movie demonstrated. But logic doesn't always prevail: Disney sued VCR makers and lost, and no studio has profited more from losing a lawsuit than Disney.


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post #37010 of 58861 Old 01-25-2016, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post
I'll make one more comment on this and then leave it alone. Another dead horse like side surround locations and absolute adherence to Dolby Specs. regardless of the situation.

RE: "I fully understand why Dolby doesn't put the resources, time and money into making a disc that can be distributed to the general public. The argument that it would help to sell processors is why they provide the disks to retailers and installers. And that is what the limited use licenses are for on the film/video clips."

If your true goal is "Mass Adoption" for Dolby Atmos, then marketing wise, you would do everything you can to get the technology/"Buzz" into the hands of the public. Providing a Dolby Atmos reference demo disc - - whether it's Dolby alone or in a partnership with the movie studios makes a lot of sense. In fact, a download site would be even better. That way, early adopters could show off their system to their friends & help generate additional buzz about the technology. Stores like Best Buy could put on a Dolby Atmos reference disc and loop it so people could hear the added difference Dolby Atmos means to a soundtrack.

EVERYONE along the Dolby Atmos food chain would benefit - - manufacturers of AVR's/Pre-Processors, Dolby Atmos speakers, speaker manufacturers, movie theaters, movie studios, sales and rentals of Dolby Atmos encoded movies - - anyone who is looking to sell more product/service. O.K. - you can download trailers but who the hell wants to do that?

Another example of marketing gone wrong and a great topic for the Harvard Business Review.
As a professional marketing/advertising person with huge experience with major and international corporations, perhaps I can comment. First off, overall, Dolby's marketing for Atmos has been a text-book classically, almost-perfect example of how to do it. The huge success of Atmos can, in part at least, be attributed to its marketing. The global coordination, timing and pretty much everything was spot on. If the Harvard Business Review did a study of it, I am sure that is the conclusion they would reach.

You say that the provision of demo discs would aid the "true goal of "Mass Adoption" for Dolby Atmos." But Dolby have already achieved mass adoption. They are totally dominating the studio and cinema market for immersive audio and Atmos is available in every mainstream manufacturers' AVRs, even those with price tags below $500. In addition, streaming and broadcast services are adopting Atmos and the Blu-ray disc market is being better served every day as more and more new releases feature Atmos soundtracks. With the advent of UHD we have already seen Sony announce that all of their UHD discs will feature Atmos. Dolby have successfully sold Atmos to every one of their target customer groups.

As for "Stores like Best Buy could put on a Dolby Atmos reference disc and loop it so people could hear the added difference Dolby Atmos means to a soundtrack" - well retailers already have the demo discs, or can obtain them easily enough so I am not sure what your point is there.

To your main point, you have to remember that Dolby is not a company concerned with end users at all, per se. Dolby's customers are all inside the industry. They have no infrastructure, and probably no staff, devoted to serving the end-user customer. As such, the end-user marketing of Atmos is handled by Dolby's own customers - the studios, cinemas, equipment manufacturers etc. The exception to this has been through Dolby's excellent PR operation via their PR agency, which has co-ordinated various press events and so on, which have resulted in many articles in AV media throughout the world. Again, I call this an 'exception' but it is really another example of Dolby not interfacing directly with the end-user. Dolby are interfacing with their PR company, who then generate newsworthy stories for the various media.

All of the above explains why Dolby will not start releasing content discs to the public. They are constrained by licensing arrangements for commercial content anyway, but even their own content in the form of trailers will not, IMO, ever be marketed direct to the public. It is unreasonable to criticise Dolby for this, any more than one could criticise, for example, the makers of the DSP chips inside your AVR simply because their model does not cater for direct end-user engagement.

No amount of customer agitation is likely to be successful in changing Dolby's business model and no matter how great the sense of entitlement is among various members of AVS Forum, and no matter how much people may feel, for some reason, aggrieved that Dolby will not do what they want, it seems to me extremely unlikely that Dolby are going to get into the business of distributing content to end-users.

What’s more, really, what is the point of people clamoring for demo material anyway? There are now at least 30 Dolby Atmos Blu-rays available and many downloadable trailers. Surely that is the best demo material of all - the actual movies which are using Atmos? And as for the test tones - well I am not reading massive criticism of AVR manufacturers for failing to provide test material to facilitate the setup of their equipment. TV and PJ manufacturers are not providing free calibration discs (of the sort sold by S&M etc).
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post #37011 of 58861 Old 01-25-2016, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Lesmor View Post
Never mind this weekend the question will be "Where can I get a DTS:X Demo disc?"
The DTS Demo disc I've got doesn't actually have that much on it in terms of imersive audio. The majority of the clips show off their lossless mixes. Only 3-4 clips are actually DTS X.

Of course, that's assuming they aren't going to have another disc in the near future which focuses exclusively on X.

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post #37012 of 58861 Old 01-25-2016, 05:50 AM
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Placement of right two Atmos ceiling speakers

Hi Guys,

I am getting my basement finished, and will have a dedicated home theater room there. Its a 16ft x 16ft x 9ft room. I will have a L shaped couch which will go all the way to the back wall.

Inititally I was thinking of doing 5.1.2 atmos implementation, however have read that 5.1.4 gives a more immersive feeling. Given, how easy it is to do a 4 atmos speaker implementation while I have access to the unfinished space, I thought of going with .4 implementation.

Notice the space below ...



3D rendering



The issue I have is that the right most ceiling speakers in green will have to be much closer to the MLP. I can't put them closer to the right wall due to a lot of duct work, pipes going on in the joists on the right hand side ... forcing me to put the 2 atmos speakers much more into the middle of the room as highlighted in the picture above.

I was wondering if this will wreck the atmos implementation, or is this something that a Denon 6200's equalization will be able to handle/correct?

I am thinking of going with Kef Ci200QR, which I have heard has a very wide dispersion due to their UniQ driver. Those will match my other Kef speakers in 5.1 setting.

I would really appreciate any insights here.

Thank you
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post #37013 of 58861 Old 01-25-2016, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
I fail to understand one thing though. Dolby has produced 3 disks until now.
IMHO
- They do have resource, time and money to put together the content 3 times. With my limited knowledge I can say that is major cost.
- But they don't have small %of that same cost to press extra copies (minus the copyrighted stuff may be)?
As I just said, at length, that is not the business they are in. If they wanted to be in the business of distributing content to end-user consumers, they would. But first they'd have to gain the infrastructure it requires and the staff it needs. This is not their model - they have no direct presence in the consumer marketplace - as a consumer you cannot buy a product with Dolby's name on it, other than as a badge put there by someone else such as the AVR maker. I can't see why people fail to understand this - the same people clamoring for it are not, AFAICS, clamoring for the DSP chip makers to interface directly with them, or the manufacturers of flat panels for TVs etc. And nor are they haranguing AVR and TV makers for failing to provide test discs to help set up the equipment. Do you know of a single TV manufacturer who provides a calibration setup disc with their TVs? I don't. Why are people not beating their doors down to demand it?
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post #37014 of 58861 Old 01-25-2016, 06:29 AM
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@kbarnes701 . I am in total agreement with your analysis.

The issue we have on this forum is that many of us think, apparently, that we are the "masses" and nothing could be further from the truth.

We are such a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny part of the audio/video consumer base. I don't care what kind of neighborhood you live in (home price point wise), just do a casual check on how many of your neighbors even have separate speakers to play the TV audio through something like sound bars, much less separate speakers, much less surround. I live in a neighborhood of moderately priced home ($300K to $600K). LOTS of big screen TV's. A few with sound bars, one other home has a projector and NO ONE has Atmos - and of all of the folks I have met in this neighborhood, not a single one has even heard of Atmos, much less actually heard it -- or at least they didn't know they heard it.

I have a friend who lives in a much more upscale neighborhood ($1 million to $10 million). While he certainly does not know everyone in his neighborhood, he is aware of ONE who actually has a dedicated home theater. The rest: a dozen big screen TV's spread all over the house.

The point of my comments: To get broader based knowledge of, acceptance (and implementation) into the more consumer homes, the first point of consumer contact (retailers, system integrators, consultants --- not Dolby) has to do a much better job of marketing.

The one thing Dolby might consider would be to do some advertising clips of the "fun of home Atmos" as movie trailers in commercial theaters. But to do that, more theaters need to be Atmos equipped. And that takes Dolby focus, not on consumers, but on their primary customer base.
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post #37015 of 58861 Old 01-25-2016, 06:30 AM
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Well, 10 days ago I decided to contact Dolby labs about possibly getting a demo disc. Here is their reply.

Quote:
Thank you for your interest in Dolby Atmos® for the home, including demonstration (demo) discs.

If you are a home theater retailer or installer, demo discs are available through our partners who manufacture Dolby Atmos enabled AVRs and speakers. Please contact those partners directly for more information.

If you are a home theater enthusiast, you can now find Dolby Atmos trailers on Vudu®. You can easily access them from a Dolby Atmos ready streaming device connected to your AVR. Most Blu-ray™ players with the Vudu app will work, in addition to the PlayStation®4 console, Roku® devices, and the new Vudu Spark™ stick.

Step One: Visit Vudu on your Dolby Atmos ready streaming device, and ensure that it’s connected to your Dolby Atmos enabled AVR, set for bitstream pass-through or surround sound (the setting language may vary by device).

Step Two: Search “Atmos,” find the “The Dolby Atmos Experience” HDX bundle, and get it for free by selecting “Purchase for $0.” In this bundle, you will find five trailers designed to demonstrate the full capabilities of Dolby Atmos.

Step Three: Once a trailer is selected and streaming, your AVR display should indicate “Dolby Atmos.”
Since they mentioned retailers as well as installers could receive these discs I decided to contact the retailer (Crutchfield) who I purchased my Denon Dolby Atmos receiver from. They told me they did not have any to obtain and directed me to the manufacturer or Dolby. So I contacted the manufacturer (Denon) about a disk and they told me that they had none to obtain and that I should try contacting Dolby about getting one. It's just a vicious loop. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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post #37016 of 58861 Old 01-25-2016, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by AllenA07 View Post
The DTS Demo disc I've got doesn't actually have that much on it in terms of imersive audio. The majority of the clips show off their lossless mixes. Only 3-4 clips are actually DTS X.

Of course, that's assuming they aren't going to have another disc in the near future which focuses exclusively on X.

I have the 2016 DTS Demo disc and it seems to have a lot of DTS:X clips. Is yours an earlier version?


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post #37017 of 58861 Old 01-25-2016, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
@kbarnes701 .
We are such a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny part of the audio/video consumer base. I don't care what kind of neighborhood you live in (home price point wise), just do a casual check on how many of your neighbors even have separate speakers to play the TV audio through something like sound bars, much less separate speakers, much less surround. I live in a neighborhood of moderately priced home ($300K to $600K). LOTS of big screen TV's. A few with sound bars, one other home has a projector and NO ONE has Atmos - and of all of the folks I have met in this neighborhood, not a single one has even heard of Atmos, much less actually heard it -- or at least they didn't know they heard it.
I live in a subdivision with similar price range of $400-550K. That's considered an upper-end, higher cost home in my area (short of living down-town or in one of the golf-course exclusive subdivisions for the uber wealthy spending millions). People drive MB S class, Maseratis, Porsches, a $1M Camaro, Tesla, Audi, one Lambo etc.....The point is there's money to be spent and AFAIK only 3 people in my division have HT, out of maybe 150-200 homes. And NO ONE has Atmos but me. As a matter of fact, NO ONE has even heard of it! Seriously that's like 0.5% of a neighborhood with surplus income, whom are not afraid to spend it.....

Quote:
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Well, 10 days ago I decided to contact Dolby labs about possibly getting a demo disc. Here is their reply.
I too was on this demo disc rant a while ago....None of us want to pay the $80-100 costs on eBay.....But let's be serious guys----you've spent at least $1000 on the supporting AVR----you've spent at least a few hundred dollars on additional speakers, mountings, and cables. In the grand scheme of things, you're spending a very small percentage to obtain the disc off eBay, relative to what you spent to go Atmos in the first place.

Just last week I decided that if I wanted it, I would buy it! It's not even 1% of the cost of anyone's Atmos HT! If I see value in having it, and I did, then it should be viewed no different than any other piece of equipment in your HT! And seriously, we will spend $30 on a BD that gets watched once or twice a year, IF THAT. The demo disc gets utilized over and over for calibration/demos/setup evaluation. It will see more spin time than any other disc in your collection. None of us argue about $130 to get a calibrated mic for REW, or $100s for acoustic treatment, or $50 for some new cables, or, or, or...All to test our systems, showcase our systems, and improve our systems. Acquiring the disc should be viewed as a "cost of entry" to the Atmos world. If you're not willing to pay it, then don't. If you see value in going to the Atmos disc park, then buy the ticket!

It's really kind of a contradiction to complain about the eBay disc costs. We are in a hobby that mandates spending thousands frivolously and spending on things that are debatably beneficial....Yet everyone wants to complain about an $80 disc......It's kind of ironic. It's like buying a high-end sports car and complaining about the cost of the gas! Well, leave it parked in the garage then!

Lastly, I'm not recommending this....But I'm sure you can find someone in your local area who is willing to share "joint custody" of the disc once you acquire it......

Last edited by Stoked21; 01-25-2016 at 07:19 AM.
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post #37018 of 58861 Old 01-25-2016, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
As I just said, at length, that is not the business they are in. If they wanted to be in the business of distributing content to end-user consumers, they would. But first they'd have to gain the infrastructure it requires and the staff it needs. This is not their model - they have no direct presence in the consumer marketplace - as a consumer you cannot buy a product with Dolby's name on it, other than as a badge put there by someone else such as the AVR maker. I can't see why people fail to understand this - the same people clamoring for it are not, AFAICS, clamoring for the DSP chip makers to interface directly with them, or the manufacturers of flat panels for TVs etc. And nor are they haranguing AVR and TV makers for failing to provide test discs to help set up the equipment. Do you know of a single TV manufacturer who provides a calibration setup disc with their TVs? I don't. Why are people not beating their doors down to demand it?
Sorry, but your TV argument does not fly.
- No TV manufacturer have made a small set of calibration disk and distributed them privately while rejecting consumer requests. But Dolby has done that. And hence we are after Dolby and not the TV manufacturer.
- While I understand it's not Dolby's segment, they can outsource it to someone or as someone suggested before, they can let someone (like AVS) host these files. Problem solved.

The problem I (and my be others as well) don't understand is
- They create a content and calibration setup for uplift of their product
- But they only give it to pro installers who care less for that as they will use their own pro tools
- they don't give it away to consumers on request neither free nor paid

So why the heck they even created it. Not 1, not 2 but 3 times.
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post #37019 of 58861 Old 01-25-2016, 07:14 AM
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Well, 10 days ago I decided to contact Dolby labs about possibly getting a demo disc. Here is their reply.



Since they mentioned retailers as well as installers could receive these discs I decided to contact the retailer (Crutchfield) who I purchased my Denon Dolby Atmos receiver from. They told me they did not have any to obtain and directed me to the manufacturer or Dolby. So I contacted the manufacturer (Denon) about a disk and they told me that they had none to obtain and that I should try contacting Dolby about getting one. It's just a vicious loop. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
K, but Dolby did give you a legitimate and reasonable way of getting atmos clips. Also, you can download them easily if you google them and play them through your computer. I use MPC-HC and go into LAV filter settings and make sure everything is set to bitstream. Then you're golden.

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post #37020 of 58861 Old 01-25-2016, 08:01 AM
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@Stoked21 & @blastermaster

I agree with both of you. I wasn't complaining. I just wanted to share my quest for a legitimate copy in case anyone was curious as to about contacting Dolby directly. And they can still contact Dolby and probably do better than I. I also have viewed the demo clips on Vudu. One downside I noticed when trying them on Vudu is that three or four out of the five are only one minute and by the time the signal changes from Dolby Digital to Dolby Atmos for the receiver to play it 30 seconds of that one minute of the clip has already played. I tried downloaded demo clips and playing them from a USB stick but neither of my Blu-ray players (2010 Samsung 3-D Blu-ray player or my Oppo BDP-83) would play the clips. Nor my Denon receiver. No point in plugging it into the new Samsung UltraHD TV because it will only pass Dolby Digital or DTS 5.1 out the optical or the HDMI ARC ports. I use a Mac and no way to get the audio to the receiver other than airplay. I've debated eBay but I seem to recall hearing about Spears&Musill planning on releasing a disk with test signals on it. There was no timeframe mentioned as I recall. So no telling how long it will be. It's possible that it could include demo clips also. I have no idea. Just a wild guess.

Last edited by Daryl L; 01-25-2016 at 08:28 AM.
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