The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 1239 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #37141 of 54925 Old 01-25-2016, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Stoked21 View Post
No. I get that man. Trust me, I felt screwed having to pay that much for it. I'm not trying to be overly blunt or rude. So please don't take it as such. We all agree on the purpose of it and we all agree that it should come from Dolby or an authorized party...We all agree that the means of acquiring it is less than ideal.....But it is what it is. It really comes down to being chapped about the cost.

But for people to say "I just spent $X,XXX on an AVR and $XXX on speakers and $XXX on amplifier and $XX on cables and $XXX on several Atmos BDs"...And then to follow that up with "I can't (won't) spend $80 on a test disc."......Well....I think that says it all. It's almost like some people feel a sense of entitlement or that it's owed to them, if you ask me.....And I'm one of those people that feels this way! But in lieu of no other alternative, I just bought the darn disc and solved my problem.
Has nothing to do with entitlement, I certainly do not feel I am owed something for free from Dolby. We all know the right thing to do here if the demand is there, which it appears to be, especially from the vast majority that do not have insider connections or wish to over pay someone gouging on ebay. Speaking of which how is it ok with Dolby that these consumers are selling copyrighted discs for profit, if Dolby cannot sell them to the general public then why is it ok for these ebay sellers. I guess it's not in their business model to care.

I'm sorry but if they can send a box of discs to a single person for distribution however he see's fit they have just violated whatever copyright agreement was in place (no..?). Could they not send a box of discs to retailers and allow the retailer to distribute said discs to consumers that buy Atmos enabled AVR's (as Steve was so generous to have done). I have nothing but respect for the industry people that share their time with us here, I know we all appreciate it.

I just contacted several retailers and asked if they had even seen the discs, not one of them had (one retailer actually has an Atmos demo room with 7.1.4).

A company with Dolby's resources should easily be capable of outsourcing distribution (if they really wanted to), how did the German magazine obtain distribution rights (I would be shocked if they paid some astronomical fee or even had the resources to do so).

With that said I am not the least bit upset about any of this, hard to convey tone on the internet without being deliberate. I simply do not agree with it because without consumers going to the movies and buying Dolby licensed products there would be no Dolby (what companies would pay their licensing fee without the consumer to recoup the investment). So the argument that Dolby is not in the end consumer business is totally off-base, their entire business actually depends upon it (us).

Anyway, at the end of the day it does not keep any of us from enjoying our Atmos systems.

- Jason
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post #37142 of 54925 Old 01-25-2016, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Not sure where you are looking but all Dolby documentation recommends Top Middle for a 7.1.2 layout.

Here is the layout info on their website: http://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/dol...-2-setups.html

It clearly shows Top Middle speakers being recommended for that layout, including side-view diagrams with the recommended angle of 65-100 degree elevation.

If you download the PDF whitepaper it shows the exact same thing.

The images below are used in all the literature including the website recommendations.

Did you perhaps confuse the upward-firing "Atmos enabled" speakers for physical overhead speakers?

I assume he's referring to this document downloaded from page 1 of this thread. I've attached it, and if you read page 8, they recommend using the front.

On a different note, I just started looking into a Dolby Atmos setup, and I was wondering if anyone had any input regarding setting up a system using Dolby Atmos Speakers vs individual speakers. Has anyone used both and prefer one over the other or is it more personal preference?

I sold me house a few years ago, and I'm living someplace temporary. I still want to setup a Dolby Atmos system, but I've been thinking about going with individual free standing speakers instead of ceiling mounted flush speakers. When I built my house, the one I sold a few years ago, I had the house wired with 42 Sonance in ceiling speakers, since they pretty much invented the concept. My main listening room was setup with 8 ceiling speakers plus a free standing sub. Having free standing speakers most of my life, I felt like free standing speakers offered more and could be purchased with quality that no in ceiling speaker could match.

So, I've been considering buying free standing speakers, but I'm not familiar with the manufacturers of Dolby Atmos speakers and if they're worth looking into or if I should get some free standing speakers for my main front right and left and surround right and left and then consider adding the in-ceiling mounted speakers just for the overhead channels. If anyone has tried out any of the Dolby Atmos speakers and has any opinions on them vs individual speakers, I would love to hear your input.

Another reason why I'm considering free standing speakers in because it was a tough pill to swallow when I sold my house and left all the speakers in place. Of course, if I were the buyer, I would have expected the speakers to stay since every room in the house had 2 speakers, except the main TV room, all with individual volume controls. It would be nice to be able to walk away with something if I invested in a nice set of B&Ws or something similar. I just felt like having all in-ceiling mounted speakers didn't give me the sound I had previously, but if these Dolby Atmos speakers are worth taking a look at, I'd like to know.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Dolby-Atmos-for-the-Home-Theater.pdf (402.9 KB, 17 views)

Last edited by rolldog; 01-25-2016 at 05:18 PM. Reason: Added info re: attachment
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post #37143 of 54925 Old 01-25-2016, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by rolldog View Post
I assume he's referring to this document downloaded from page 1 of this thread. I've attached it, and if you read page 8, they recommend using the front.
I think the difference between what batpig is saying and what you're reading in the Dolby documentation you attached, is that batpig is referring to the placement of in-ceiling speakers whereas what you were reading on p8 was the recommendation for using atmos-enabled speakers (whether 'standalone' or 'add=ons').
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post #37144 of 54925 Old 01-25-2016, 05:47 PM
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So I guess HBO forgot about seasons 3 & 4 steelbook Atmos editions for GoT? No mention of them in the past 2 months since the first two have released. I wouldn't exactly dub that an "on the heels of" type of release.

No mention of season 5 having a steelbook Atmos release either, but I suspect they'll double dip on that for holiday 2016,...pity.
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post #37145 of 54925 Old 01-25-2016, 06:03 PM
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Anyone on the purpose of the test tones on the new demo disc? I kinda wrote them off and have been enjoying the new demo's. Jet taking off is fabulous.

Thanks
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post #37146 of 54925 Old 01-25-2016, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Csbooth View Post
So I guess HBO forgot about seasons 3 & 4 steelbook Atmos editions for GoT? No mention of them in the past 2 months since the first two have released. I wouldn't exactly dub that an "on the heels of" type of release.

No mention of season 5 having a steelbook Atmos release either, but I suspect they'll double dip on that for holiday 2016,...pity.
I know the Atmos mixes are done through S5..... and I believe the "regular" box set for that season will have Atmos.. so we should expect the 3/4 editors soon????
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post #37147 of 54925 Old 01-25-2016, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Csbooth View Post
So I guess HBO forgot about seasons 3 & 4 steelbook Atmos editions for GoT? No mention of them in the past 2 months since the first two have released. I wouldn't exactly dub that an "on the heels of" type of release.

No mention of season 5 having a steelbook Atmos release either, but I suspect they'll double dip on that for holiday 2016,...pity.
I was wondering about that myself... I think they will announce 3 & 4 soon.

According to the list of Atmos releases I think the original bluray version of season 5 might actually contain the Atmos mix.

*HOWEVER* After watching the first 4 episodes of season 1 I've got to say this is beyond the tamest Atmos mix I've heard yet.
Only the start of episode 1 sounded active to me... what do you guys think?

I also checked out the man from U.N.C.L.E. in Atmos, tame as well but the music mix is FANTASTIC. Really cool to hear a real harpsichord in the soundtrack.
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post #37148 of 54925 Old 01-25-2016, 06:34 PM
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Lol. Simonian and his...

Spoiler!
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post #37149 of 54925 Old 01-25-2016, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
I know the Atmos mixes are done through S5..... and I believe the "regular" box set for that season will have Atmos.. so we should expect the 3/4 editors soon????
Thank you for the heads up, I'll be on the lookout for that!
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post #37150 of 54925 Old 01-25-2016, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Aras_Volodka View Post
I was wondering about that myself... I think they will announce 3 & 4 soon.

According to the list of Atmos releases I think the original bluray version of season 5 might actually contain the Atmos mix.

*HOWEVER* After watching the first 4 episodes of season 1 I've got to say this is beyond the tamest Atmos mix I've heard yet.
Only the start of episode 1 sounded active to me... what do you guys think?

I also checked out the man from U.N.C.L.E. in Atmos, tame as well but the music mix is FANTASTIC. Really cool to hear a real harpsichord in the soundtrack.
I do hope something is mentioned soon. I haven't actually had the time to sit down and give the Atmos mixed BD a spin and I was hoping to binge them all ahead of season 6, so I am hopeful that I can still do that lol.

While The Man From U.N.C.L.E was a tame mix concerning height information, I felt the score and accuracy overall was pretty well done. Goosebumps tomorrow!
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post #37151 of 54925 Old 01-25-2016, 08:06 PM
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Geez...look what I did. Sorry Scott, love you man.
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post #37152 of 54925 Old 01-25-2016, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Csbooth View Post
So I guess HBO forgot about seasons 3 & 4 steelbook Atmos editions for GoT? No mention of them in the past 2 months since the first two have released. I wouldn't exactly dub that an "on the heels of" type of release.

No mention of season 5 having a steelbook Atmos release either, but I suspect they'll double dip on that for holiday 2016,...pity.

Seasons 3 and 4 (Atmos) are available for pre-order from Amazon Italy, here and here. The release date is June 15, 2016. The US and UK ones should be coming out shortly.


Cheers,
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post #37153 of 54925 Old 01-25-2016, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aras_Volodka View Post

*HOWEVER* After watching the first 4 episodes of season 1 I've got to say this is beyond the tamest Atmos mix I've heard yet.
Only the start of episode 1 sounded active to me... what do you guys think?

I also checked out the man from U.N.C.L.E. in Atmos, tame as well but the music mix is FANTASTIC. Really cool to hear a real harpsichord in the soundtrack.

I agree - I watched the full Season 1 and half Season 2 (Atmos version) and was a little disappointed with the Atmos authoring. Same for Man from U.N.C.L.E.

I am not a fan of Transformers - AoE, but man, is the audio on that excellent.


Cheers,

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post #37154 of 54925 Old 01-25-2016, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shniks View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aras_Volodka View Post

*HOWEVER* After watching the first 4 episodes of season 1 I've got to say this is beyond the tamest Atmos mix I've heard yet.
Only the start of episode 1 sounded active to me... what do you guys think?

I also checked out the man from U.N.C.L.E. in Atmos, tame as well but the music mix is FANTASTIC. Really cool to hear a real harpsichord in the soundtrack.

I agree - I watched the full Season 1 and half Season 2 (Atmos version) and was a little disappointed with the Atmos authoring. Same for Man from U.N.C.L.E.

I am not a fan of Transformers - AoE, but man, is the audio on that excellent.


Cheers,
I promise you that the Atmos gets better as the seasons go on
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post #37155 of 54925 Old 01-25-2016, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
I promise you that the Atmos gets better as the seasons go on

Coming from you, that's great news. Thanks for letting us know. I guess I will order the next 3 seasons too.


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post #37156 of 54925 Old 01-25-2016, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by rontalley View Post
Build two bulkheads or backer boxes and put the TR in as TM right over the couch. Put the TF no more than 9'6" from the TR. Put the speakers in the symmetrically. You only need 4" for most in-ceilings. You are thinking too hard. Even if you have to mount on-ceilings, it would be better than a non-symmetrical installation.

Hi Rontalley and Sanjiv and others,

I went to dolby's site and this is their recommendation for 5.1.4



So two speakers in front of MLP and two at back. Since the MLP has a wall at the back, I was thinking the rear become mids.

Take a look at my room layout ...



Notice the following,

There is duct work on the right hand side of MLP. I had another look at the area tonight and think I can rework the duct work such that there is a 12' gap between the back wall and start of duct trunk. I could fit a ceiling speaker (ie TRR or TMR) here. As this is very close to the back wall, I am not sure if this is a good idea. I will then extend this duct all the way across the room (which will house a return). The TRL or TML speaker is situated on left hand side.

Both TR/M left and right are about 10 feet apart. The bad part is that they are very very close to the back wall.

There is another bulk head in this area sort of in middle of the room. I could put TFL and TFR in this bulk head, symmetrically opposite TR/M speakers on the back wall. The distance between TF and TR/M speakers is also 10ft.

What are your thoughts. I am thinking of using Kef Ci200QR here for their wide dispersion. But could also go with ceiling speakers with amiable tweeter such as Speakercraft Aim 7 series 2 and aim the speakers towards MLP. Both I can obtain for similar pricing.

A picture of the existing duct work in the pic below. I will have to rework some ducts to free up space between backwall and the start of the duct.

This is pic taken from standing at MLP and looking right. Notice, the existing duct. I will have to rework that duct to squeeze in the Ci200QR.



The ceiling speakers will be slightly more than 8ft from ground as they are installed in bulk heads. The normal ceiling height is 9ft.

Sanjiv, you had mentioned front height speakers on the front wall. This is an interesting idea aswell, but I don't see dolby recommending this in their 5.1.4 arrangement. I would likely have to buy something like Kef R100 instead of their inceiling speakers to angle the front height towards MLP. There is quiet a bit of pricing difference between a pair of R100 vs pair of Kef CiQ200QR.

Thanks for your insights. Again very much appreciate it.
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post #37157 of 54925 Old 01-25-2016, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Lakesideb View Post
Sanjiv, you had mentioned front height speakers on the front wall.
That was my evil twin Sanjay. With your seating against the back wall, there is no space behind you to do Top Rear speakers, so you'll have to designate them Top Middle. Easier to hear Top Middle speakers if they are mounted slightly forward of the MLP rather than directly above (around 80 degrees elevation instead of 90).

Your Denon 6200 will not allow you to configure the other pair of heights for an adjacent location (Top Front), so you'll have to designate them Front Height. If you look at the Atmos install guide, it shows the Front Height speaker at 30 degrees elevation high up on the wall rather than the ceiling (though its range is 30-45 degrees).

You can certainly place the Front Heights at a higher elevation, though I would caution against reducing the gap between both pairs to the point that you end up with no meaningful separation between them. Hence the suggestion to mount them high up on the front wall (plus trying to avoid having the bulkhead obstruct their sound).

Sanjay
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post #37158 of 54925 Old 01-26-2016, 01:35 AM
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Originally Posted by goldark View Post
Has anyone mounted 4 Atmos speakers in the corners of the room? If so, how effective was this?

The back corner ceiling mounted speakers would be a few feet behind the surround speakers in a 5.2.4 setup I'm trying for. The fronts Atmos speakers would be a couple feet behind the mains in the corner.
I haven't but I presume this would mean a setting as Front Height and Rear Height instead of TF+TR. You also need to asses if the elevation of the speakers is enough when viewed from back to front. I presume these are also wider placed than the main Front speakers?

It's the room, stupid!
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post #37159 of 54925 Old 01-26-2016, 01:56 AM
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I think the lack of distribution of dolby atmos demo disks is making me want to wait for dts x because they have demo disks available.... Said no one
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post #37160 of 54925 Old 01-26-2016, 02:41 AM
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Hmmm.... One of the World's best DJs vs a pretty average pseudo-scifi movie?
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Keith, Tiesto won a Grammy in 2015, and he's hardly obscure in the music world:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...ved_by_Tiësto

Maybe you need some EDM or Ozark Henry in your life .
Give me a break guys. This is relative as you know - one is an obscure performer enjoyed by how many? The other is a movie seen by millions of people, all over the world and earning over $1,000,000,000!

If this is Auro's claim to fame, no wonder they're dead in the water.
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post #37161 of 54925 Old 01-26-2016, 02:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Keith, Keith, Keith. Get your facts straight, the Auro disc contains 2.5 hours of movieclips, music, test signals, etc.

http://www.demo-world.eu/2014/10/16/...stration-disc/
I'm talking about the real world, where Auro have, let's see, oh yeah, zero movies on disc in the US and a bunch of obscure music. Since they have nothing worth mentioning out there in the real world, they've had plenty of time to organise their demo disk - that is what I was saying.
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post #37162 of 54925 Old 01-26-2016, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Lakesideb View Post
Hi Rontalley and Sanjiv and others,

I went to dolby's site and this is their recommendation for 5.1.4



So two speakers in front of MLP and two at back. Since the MLP has a wall at the back, I was thinking the rear become mids.

Take a look at my room layout ...



Notice the following,

There is duct work on the right hand side of MLP. I had another look at the area tonight and think I can rework the duct work such that there is a 12' gap between the back wall and start of duct trunk. I could fit a ceiling speaker (ie TRR or TMR) here. As this is very close to the back wall, I am not sure if this is a good idea. I will then extend this duct all the way across the room (which will house a return). The TRL or TML speaker is situated on left hand side.

Both TR/M left and right are about 10 feet apart. The bad part is that they are very very close to the back wall.

There is another bulk head in this area sort of in middle of the room. I could put TFL and TFR in this bulk head, symmetrically opposite TR/M speakers on the back wall. The distance between TF and TR/M speakers is also 10ft.

What are your thoughts. I am thinking of using Kef Ci200QR here for their wide dispersion. But could also go with ceiling speakers with amiable tweeter such as Speakercraft Aim 7 series 2 and aim the speakers towards MLP. Both I can obtain for similar pricing.

A picture of the existing duct work in the pic below. I will have to rework some ducts to free up space between backwall and the start of the duct.

This is pic taken from standing at MLP and looking right. Notice, the existing duct. I will have to rework that duct to squeeze in the Ci200QR.



The ceiling speakers will be slightly more than 8ft from ground as they are installed in bulk heads. The normal ceiling height is 9ft.

Sanjiv, you had mentioned front height speakers on the front wall. This is an interesting idea aswell, but I don't see dolby recommending this in their 5.1.4 arrangement. I would likely have to buy something like Kef R100 instead of their inceiling speakers to angle the front height towards MLP. There is quiet a bit of pricing difference between a pair of R100 vs pair of Kef CiQ200QR.

Thanks for your insights. Again very much appreciate it.
You might get away with Goldenear Technology Invisa 650 without having to move that ductwork, a major PITA.

http://www.goldenear.com/products/invisa-series?gktab=2

They are sealed units and would not require any kind of box. $299 each and some GEdealers offer a discount. They are very highly rated.

I do not have them, but almost everything that I have is GE.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...-profiles.html

Atmos Dolby 7.2.4; Epson 6040UB; Panasonic UB820; TiVo Roamio; Roku Stick+

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post #37163 of 54925 Old 01-26-2016, 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
With the caveat that the test tones intended audience may not be the same, it would far better if the tones were well documented so the consumer would know what they were supposed to be hearing and thus be able to compare it to the actual output. Shoot, I'm certainly in the top percentile of "informed" home users and I was surprised about some of the results, and especially perplexed (still am) about the inconsistency with the "snap" apparently not being used on the Top Front signal in the x.x.4 tracks. I still don't have a clear answer as to whether that was intentional or an error, and only accurate documentation can answer that.
This is why everyone would be better off with a S&M Atmos test disc IMO - the use and intent of the disc would be well-documented.
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post #37164 of 54925 Old 01-26-2016, 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Dude... WTF would you state that I take them for granted? That is way past the line and untrue.

These disks, even with test tones are a mere pinprick of enjoyment that someone will have with their Atmos system. All other real world and attainable content is much better. It's only because I have got to experience them that I can say that the people who can't get them aren't missing too much. You're making me out to be someone or something that I am not.


But now I'm an a**hole because I have these disks and they can't? What the hell?
FWIW Scott, I'm with you entirely on this. I too have the disc with the test tones (thank you again to my source) and I agree - it's only when you have the disc that you actually know that those without the disc aren’t missing all that much. Many of the clips are obtainable as downloads and the test tones may not be as useful to most people as they think they might be. There is even disagreement about how the tones have been authored and whether they are even consistent, hence some people finding that if they play the 9.1.6 tones on a 7.1.4 system, and compare them with the 7.1.4 tones, they get two different results. Meanwhile, everyone has access to over 31 Atmos Blu-rays, which are, after all, pretty much the entire point of having Atmos at home.
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post #37165 of 54925 Old 01-26-2016, 03:43 AM
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post #37166 of 54925 Old 01-26-2016, 03:44 AM
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Lol! It's all the same s**t, isn't it?
Haha. Yeah - pretty much. Mind you, in the era of Batman vs Superman and Aliens vs Predators, Transformers vs Ultron could be a winner.
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post #37167 of 54925 Old 01-26-2016, 03:54 AM
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Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post
How did the German magazine obtain distribution rights (I would be shocked if they paid some astronomical fee or even had the resources to do so).
That's something I am curious about as well. There is no way IMO that a magazine would expend legal resources on negotiating with all the various content owners for the distribution of the copyrighted material. Yet the idea that they would pirate it in such a high profile way is unthinkable. So how did they do it? And if they could do it, why not anyone else?

I do wonder what the market potential for the disk would be, if it were sold at a reasonable price - say $15. Other than a handful of AVS members who want it, would anyone else? I doubt it. So it is never going to be commercially viable to release it. And since Dolby have said they don't intend to release it, any further discussion of it is really about as much use as discussing whether we'd all like the sun to shine for 14 hours a day every day. Well maybe we would... but...
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post #37168 of 54925 Old 01-26-2016, 04:25 AM
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Got my Denon x2200w set up last night. It is capable of 5.1.2 however, when assigning amps to the top speakers, it asks if they are top middle or top fronts. My top speakers are about 4' ahead of the mlp and the mlp is 14' from the screen. Which should I select top middle or top front?
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post #37169 of 54925 Old 01-26-2016, 04:39 AM
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The demo disc has half a dozen movie clips, including Rise of the Guardians and The Croods. Hardly esoteric. Besides, the content people want from the Atmos disc is from Dolby themselves, not from movie studios nor record labels. Don't tell me they can't negotiate a distribution deal for that content.
I'm not telling you. Dolby is telling you. They are saying it isn't going to happen.
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post #37170 of 54925 Old 01-26-2016, 04:52 AM
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I guess no one knows what the test tones are for or its top secret?

I do really want to know.
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