The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 1288 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #38611 of 55443 Old 03-01-2016, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by dvdwilly3 View Post
I think that room acoustics are definitely a problem for you. In that case ceiling vs upfiring will be an improvement. Remember that you can do on ciling as opposed to in ceiling if you can find appropriate speakers.

My top rear speakers are mounted at the top of my rear wall just under the ceiling. But, they are about 3' behind my sofa.

One thing that you really have to do if you want Atmos to work is to get those side surrounds down around ear level. With them as high as you have them there is very little separation from your heights and your ears will not perceive them as different so the sound gets all muddled together.

I started with 5.1.2 using Upfiring front & back. I went to 5.1.4 w/upfiring to 7.1.2 w/upfiring to 7.1.2 w/upfiring to 7.1.4 w/upfiring to 7.1.4 w/rear on wall near ceiling & front upfiring to 7.1.4 w/front on ceiling & rear on wall.

Each of these was an incremental improvement in the sound. Any time that you are dealing with odd room acoustics, on or in ceiling is better than upfiring.

Can you pull that sofa out any?
Im probably going to go for in ceiling and just get it done properly. My only worry is that with my setup would it be worth getting 4 in ceiling or is that too excessive and i should get 2 only. Im a bit unsure, but maybe 4 is my best option for future proofing also, especially since if someone will be installing these for me it will only ever happen once and i won't get a chance to do it again.

I am also actually getting DBOX seats installed in the room, hence that is why i am moving the seats forward to allow for the dbox motion and recline of the seat. Ive been told that i need to move it about 10inches forward from the back wall. My room (apart from the ceiling) is not that big, which is why I'm restricted in moving the seats too forward.

My original plan was to install 7.1.4 but the cinema guy who's going to do the installation told me that for 7 channels surround, i need 2 speaks to either side of me and 2 speakers behind me, i can't have in front of me. He said it won't be worth it really and that i should stick with 5.1.4. I really really wish that i could bring the 2 back speakers down to ear level like my fronts but the problem is that they would be too close to my ears if i put them on the back wall, also if i try to put them on the side walls either side of the sofas, then its not possible either, as there is a door right there on the right side of the sofa, hence i don't know where i would put the speaker.

Unfortunately i don't really have the luxury for incremental improvements, i will have to get the best i can at the go (installations taking place in april) and keep it like that for a long long time. So fingers crossed that we can get it right first time!
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post #38612 of 55443 Old 03-01-2016, 09:30 AM
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Hey guys,
I posted a separate post but I guess this is probably the best place for it:

So I have the day off and I'm pulling cable for my in-wall and in-ceiling speakers to finally get my Atmos setup up and running. Fine time to realize I hadn't settled on surround speaker height.

The Atmos guidlines I've read suggest that your rear surrounds should be at ear level/the same level as your mains. However, I've recently read that THX did Atmos testing and said the best elevation for the surrounds should be something like 24" above ear level. I believe this does a better job of creating that "hemisphere of sound".

So what elevation is optimal? I'd like to get those in-walls cut in before the wife browbeats me into submission!
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post #38613 of 55443 Old 03-01-2016, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Killer_Nads View Post
One thing that i seemed to recall is that when i tested out the atmos demos clips, i remember i heard one much better when i stood up from my sofa, the sound was reaching me so much better, it was much clearer and i could hear the atmos. I think that was the case, but it was almost 7 months ago so hard to remember, i never really went further in experimenting with it after this time. I just put the level volume of the atmos speakers to higher instead, which i realised now resulted in the sound being heard straight from the speaker itself and not the rebounding sound.

I think having the 4 in ceiling speakers will probably work much better for me, thanks to the high ceiling, however, is 4 speakers overkill and i should stick to 2 or should definitely go for 4 atmos ones?

im also not currently sure where i would be placing these as my sofa is almost at the back wall, probably about 10inches away from the wall. I heard for the best position you should have 2 atmos speakers in front of the seating area and then 2 atmos speakers behind you.

But the problem is that i can do the 2 in front no problem, but for the back atmos ones it will be more like straight on top of my seats, maybe a little behind but then it will be almost touching the back wall and i guess the atmos sound coming from these will travel straight down the back wall instead of having a wider angle?! i wonder if that would work well or not!
Unfortunately, as you've found, you've got a bad situation for Atmos up-firing modules. Not only is your ceiling really high, lessening the SPL and diffusing the sound of of the bounce with the extra distance it has to travel, but your seating is all the way against the opposite wall so you are probably far from the direct bounce reflection. I'm willing to bet if you stood a few feet forward of the couch you'd hear a bit more overhead effect, but the bottom line is you have the luxury of high ceilings so getting physical speakers up there is clearly the best option.

Can you describe the room dimensions and speaker layout a bit more clearly (maybe even provide a rough diagram)? We know you are 10 inches from the back wall but how deep is the room?

As to your question, 4 ceiling speakers is definitely NOT overkill at all. The good news is, although you can't get the rear overheads far behind you, that 13ft ceiling afford you some distance that will prevent the speaker from "hot spotting" too much. I would mount a pair of rear overheads high up on the rear wall, close to the ceiling, firing down and across the couch. They'll only be about 10 degrees behind you but that will still effectively provide the sense of "stuff up there" behind you. Then the forward overheads go about 45 degrees in front of you.
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post #38614 of 55443 Old 03-01-2016, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Killer_Nads View Post
I can't remember what AccuEQ showed as the distance. I will see if i get a chance again and maybe measure it soon. But i think that it was roughly the same as the fronts.

Yes that was a mistake i made, as i couldn't hear them from the AccuEq setup, i manually turned them up quite a bit, however after this i could definitely not hear anything from the ceiling and instead from the front only where the speakers are placed.

I think the height is probably the reason as to the lack of hearing for atmos. Hopefully 4 in ceiling speakers would fix this!
Any chance you can raise them up, rather than sitting directly on your mains. Obviously you would want to test before mounting a shelf or something.
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post #38615 of 55443 Old 03-01-2016, 09:49 AM
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Hmmm.... One of the World's best DJs vs a pretty average pseudo-scifi movie?
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Originally Posted by Killer_Nads View Post
Im probably going to go for in ceiling and just get it done properly. My only worry is that with my setup would it be worth getting 4 in ceiling or is that too excessive and i should get 2 only. Im a bit unsure, but maybe 4 is my best option for future proofing also, especially since if someone will be installing these for me it will only ever happen once and i won't get a chance to do it again.

I am also actually getting DBOX seats installed in the room, hence that is why i am moving the seats forward to allow for the dbox motion and recline of the seat. Ive been told that i need to move it about 10inches forward from the back wall. My room (apart from the ceiling) is not that big, which is why I'm restricted in moving the seats too forward.

My original plan was to install 7.1.4 but the cinema guy who's going to do the installation told me that for 7 channels surround, i need 2 speaks to either side of me and 2 speakers behind me, i can't have in front of me. He said it won't be worth it really and that i should stick with 5.1.4. I really really wish that i could bring the 2 back speakers down to ear level like my fronts but the problem is that they would be too close to my ears if i put them on the back wall, also if i try to put them on the side walls either side of the sofas, then its not possible either, as there is a door right there on the right side of the sofa, hence i don't know where i would put the speaker.

Unfortunately i don't really have the luxury for incremental improvements, i will have to get the best i can at the go (installations taking place in april) and keep it like that for a long long time. So fingers crossed that we can get it right first time!
Hi there,

I would like to ask you - have you connected the 2 upfiring modules to the correct AVR Speaker terminals? When there are only two Atmos speakers in use most AVRs' manuals recommend connecting to Rear Presence Speaker terminals - that is for sure the case with Yamaha Aventage xx40. Also how are these modules placed? If you post some pics of your room and speaker placement+connection maybe we will be of greater help and save you some trouble and money.

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Front - Klipsch RB-81 II x 2; Center - Klipsch RC-62 II; Side Surround - Klipsch RS-52 II x 2;
TR Atmos - Klipsch RS-52 II х 2; TF Atmos - Tannoy VRi х 2;
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post #38616 of 55443 Old 03-01-2016, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Utopianemo View Post
Hey guys,
I posted a separate post but I guess this is probably the best place for it:

So I have the day off and I'm pulling cable for my in-wall and in-ceiling speakers to finally get my Atmos setup up and running. Fine time to realize I hadn't settled on surround speaker height.

The Atmos guidlines I've read suggest that your rear surrounds should be at ear level/the same level as your mains. However, I've recently read that THX did Atmos testing and said the best elevation for the surrounds should be something like 24" above ear level. I believe this does a better job of creating that "hemisphere of sound".

So what elevation is optimal? I'd like to get those in-walls cut in before the wife browbeats me into submission!
This article may be useful: http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/ten...os-dts-x-auro/

Personally, I would NOT follow blindly the "ear level" recommendation. You really want to consider your room needs -- how many seats are you trying to cover? multiple rows? how wide is the room?

The basic rule of thumb IMO is NOT ear level, but rather "as low as they can go without introducing other issues" as discussed in the link above.

One issue for example is the speaker being blocked from "line of sight" to all seats. If you've get a second row on a riser than the back surrounds need to be high enough to clear their heads so the front row can hear them clearly. If your room is narrow and the speakers are going to be directly to the sides then you also have to consider "hot spotting" for the outer seats where the surround is firing right into the end listener's ear.

Some folks disagree vehemently and say "ear level is ideal and anything else is a compromise". Personally, I feel like that compromise can be worth it if it mitigates other issues.

Note that the reference is the screen channel speakers (LCR) not ear level per se -- so if you looked at a side view of the room and drew a line from the back surrounds to the front speakers, the side surrounds should basically be on that line (e.g. this commercial theater image below). What you want in terms of the entire "ear level" bed of 7 speakers is a contiguous "ring" of speakers so that things panning around you do not noticeably jump up and down in height. That "ring" can be tilted upwards in the rear to accommodate some of the issues noted above. You can see in the image below that the "ring" of surrounds rises as it goes further back, obviously to accommodate the rise in height of the stadium seating. And in a commercial theater they are higher than ideal at home due to other considerations (the screen channels already are high up, plus you need even coverage across a huge seating area, etc) but it gives you a sense of what to shoot for.


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post #38617 of 55443 Old 03-01-2016, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Utopianemo View Post
Hey guys,
I posted a separate post but I guess this is probably the best place for it:

So I have the day off and I'm pulling cable for my in-wall and in-ceiling speakers to finally get my Atmos setup up and running. Fine time to realize I hadn't settled on surround speaker height.

The Atmos guidlines I've read suggest that your rear surrounds should be at ear level/the same level as your mains. However, I've recently read that THX did Atmos testing and said the best elevation for the surrounds should be something like 24" above ear level. I believe this does a better job of creating that "hemisphere of sound".

So what elevation is optimal? I'd like to get those in-walls cut in before the wife browbeats me into submission!
Surrounds as close to ear level as possible without blocking them seems to be what the majority of people have done. It will provide the best immersion.
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post #38618 of 55443 Old 03-01-2016, 09:51 AM
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Im probably going to go for in ceiling and just get it done properly. My only worry is that with my setup would it be worth getting 4 in ceiling or is that too excessive and i should get 2 only. Im a bit unsure, but maybe 4 is my best option for future proofing also, especially since if someone will be installing these for me it will only ever happen once and i won't get a chance to do it again.

I am also actually getting DBOX seats installed in the room, hence that is why i am moving the seats forward to allow for the dbox motion and recline of the seat. Ive been told that i need to move it about 10inches forward from the back wall. My room (apart from the ceiling) is not that big, which is why I'm restricted in moving the seats too forward.

My original plan was to install 7.1.4 but the cinema guy who's going to do the installation told me that for 7 channels surround, i need 2 speaks to either side of me and 2 speakers behind me, i can't have in front of me. He said it won't be worth it really and that i should stick with 5.1.4. I really really wish that i could bring the 2 back speakers down to ear level like my fronts but the problem is that they would be too close to my ears if i put them on the back wall, also if i try to put them on the side walls either side of the sofas, then its not possible either, as there is a door right there on the right side of the sofa, hence i don't know where i would put the speaker.

Unfortunately i don't really have the luxury for incremental improvements, i will have to get the best i can at the go (installations taking place in april) and keep it like that for a long long time. So fingers crossed that we can get it right first time!

Go with four. If you can do it, no question. You want those overheads in front and behind MLP to properly hear the audio object placement - to hear a hovercraft flying overhead from back to front, to hear you all around. If you aren't going to upgrade again for a while, do four.
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post #38619 of 55443 Old 03-01-2016, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by cxr369 View Post
I'm finally ready to start building my theater after two years of being in my house. Would rather it be a man cave / movie theatre. The question I have is other than the RC-6C/8Cs, which ceiling speakers are the best match for the Energy RC line. I have all NIB 4 RC 70s, a pair of RC10s, two pairs of RC-Rs, and an RC-LCR. I placed a speaker in the middle of the room and blasted it, the music could be heard throught all 3,000 sqft of the house. An even bigger issue is that the baby's room is located above the room. I need to soundproof the room. Just don't know the average cost of doing so. I have a friend who can do the work to help cut down on labor cost. The room is 25x16x9, I would like to fit a bar and possibly a pool table in the room too, but definitely a bar in the back, the three car garage is next to the wall. I would like to set it up for 13.1.4 to future poof it for next gen avr.
OK, before you worry about Atmos you have to consider soundproofing -- I hate to break it to you but that is NOT a cheap or easy proposition. I also have small kids (and a wife!) and it can be a major impediment to happy HT enjoyment.

Soundproofing isn't really within the scope of this thread, but just to let you know if you REALLY want to make a significant enough impact to allow you to play it loud while the baby is sleeping right above you, it's going to take some major work. The "correct" way to do it unfortunately is to tear the room down to the studs and then re-build it with a contractor who knows how to do it right. You are probably going to want to install resilient channels on the current studs and then mount a double layer of drywall, with Green Glue sandwiched in between the layers, to basically create a new internal "shell" that is damped and isolated from the studs/joists around the room. You'll probably also want to upgrade the doors and do some sealing around the edges to prevent leakage through the openings. The biggest enemy is the low freq bass -- those frequencies will couple to the structure of the house and conduct along the joists/studs and will be felt elsewhere in the house. Attacking that problem requires serious construction efforts. You may also if possible want to beef up the baby room, e.g. adding a heavy pad under the carpet and adding a second layer of drywall with Green Glue.

With respect to speakers, if you then cut holes in the ceiling for in-ceiling speakers you are going to work against the soundproofing. I would consider using your RC-R's as ON ceiling speakers instead, they have wide dispersion so they can work well especially if you can engineer a mount that angles them a bit so they aim more at the listening zone.

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post #38620 of 55443 Old 03-01-2016, 10:03 AM
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Just to clarify do you mean you plugged a hdmi cable from the samsung player (Main out) into an input on a non hdcp 2.2 avr/pre-pro and you were able to get both video and sound ?
That is correct. With these two titles it works fine. I don't know if they all will.

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post #38621 of 55443 Old 03-01-2016, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Killer_Nads View Post
Im probably going to go for in ceiling and just get it done properly. My only worry is that with my setup would it be worth getting 4 in ceiling or is that too excessive and i should get 2 only. Im a bit unsure, but maybe 4 is my best option for future proofing also, especially since if someone will be installing these for me it will only ever happen once and i won't get a chance to do it again.

I am also actually getting DBOX seats installed in the room, hence that is why i am moving the seats forward to allow for the dbox motion and recline of the seat. Ive been told that i need to move it about 10inches forward from the back wall. My room (apart from the ceiling) is not that big, which is why I'm restricted in moving the seats too forward.

My original plan was to install 7.1.4 but the cinema guy who's going to do the installation told me that for 7 channels surround, i need 2 speaks to either side of me and 2 speakers behind me, i can't have in front of me. He said it won't be worth it really and that i should stick with 5.1.4. I really really wish that i could bring the 2 back speakers down to ear level like my fronts but the problem is that they would be too close to my ears if i put them on the back wall, also if i try to put them on the side walls either side of the sofas, then its not possible either, as there is a door right there on the right side of the sofa, hence i don't know where i would put the speaker.

Unfortunately i don't really have the luxury for incremental improvements, i will have to get the best i can at the go (installations taking place in april) and keep it like that for a long long time. So fingers crossed that we can get it right first time!
Did you post pix of your space?

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post #38622 of 55443 Old 03-01-2016, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by cxr369 View Post
I'm finally ready to start building my theater after two years of being in my house. Would rather it be a man cave / movie theatre. The question I have is other than the RC-6C/8Cs, which ceiling speakers are the best match for the Energy RC line. I have all NIB 4 RC 70s, a pair of RC10s, two pairs of RC-Rs, and an RC-LCR. I placed a speaker in the middle of the room and blasted it, the music could be heard throught all 3,000 sqft of the house. An even bigger issue is that the baby's room is located above the room. I need to soundproof the room. Just don't know the average cost of doing so. I have a friend who can do the work to help cut down on labor cost. The room is 25x16x9, I would like to fit a bar and possibly a pool table in the room too, but definitely a bar in the back, the three car garage is next to the wall. I would like to set it up for 13.1.4 to future poof it for next gen avr.
That may seem like a big space, but after you peel off 14' x 17' needed for an 8' pool table (1' less if you are willing to use short sticks) that's leaving you 11' x 16' for your bar and home theater, which can be done if you aren't worried about the sound by having one side of your "theater area" open to the pool table area, and have that theater area in the 11' wide by 16' deep section.

If you lose the pool table, then you are good shape size wise for the speaker config you want, but as batpig mentioned, sound proofing, especially with the baby room above, is not going to be a simple task. Even going the double drywall, whisper clip approach that Bat mentions you are going to struggle to keep bass out of the rest of the house, and especially the baby room. It's not undoable, but it is a serious undertaking. There are a lot of threads on here where people have built the rooms that you can use as a guide.
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post #38623 of 55443 Old 03-01-2016, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Killer_Nads View Post
One thing that i seemed to recall is that when i tested out the atmos demos clips, i remember i heard one much better when i stood up from my sofa, the sound was reaching me so much better, it was much clearer and i could hear the atmos. I think that was the case, but it was almost 7 months ago so hard to remember, i never really went further in experimenting with it after this time. I just put the level volume of the atmos speakers to higher instead, which i realised now resulted in the sound being heard straight from the speaker itself and not the rebounding sound.

I think having the 4 in ceiling speakers will probably work much better for me, thanks to the high ceiling, however, is 4 speakers overkill and i should stick to 2 or should definitely go for 4 atmos ones?

im also not currently sure where i would be placing these as my sofa is almost at the back wall, probably about 10inches away from the wall. I heard for the best position you should have 2 atmos speakers in front of the seating area and then 2 atmos speakers behind you.

But the problem is that i can do the 2 in front no problem, but for the back atmos ones it will be more like straight on top of my seats, maybe a little behind but then it will be almost touching the back wall and i guess the atmos sound coming from these will travel straight down the back wall instead of having a wider angle?! i wonder if that would work well or not!
Onkyo 646 only supports two height speakers.

Marantz SR6010 is their lowest cost offering which will support four height speakers if you add a two channel amp for the rear heights.

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post #38624 of 55443 Old 03-01-2016, 12:35 PM
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That is correct. With these two titles it works fine. I don't know if they all will.
Thanks a lot. It really clears things up

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post #38625 of 55443 Old 03-01-2016, 07:06 PM
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With the 14 foot high ceiling, I would certainly look at top speakers as you seem to have decided on, but you could do a few experiments first.

Just take your up firing units, raise them up to 8 feet off the floor, aimed at the ceiling so the bounce will hit your listening spot, and re-run the room correction, see how that sounds.

Raise them up even more, but then turn them to aim right at the listening area, change their designation to Front Height, and then re-run the room correction. The speakers should have the HRTF filter in them, and when used as up-firing, the room correction, will dial that curve in. When you name them height or top, the room correction should then target flat response, and it will eq out the HRTF filter. Try that for a movie.

You could also try using them as rear height high on the back wall. This could work well with your seat near the back wall. These are all valid setups for Atmos. It is very flexible.

These experiments just cost a little time and running temporary speaker wires around the room. Find what you like the sound of and then make it look nice or use better speakers for the position you like. You don't have to spend a fortune to see what you like best. I built a pair of boxes for some car speakers that I have been trying all around my room. They are very low profile and sound very good. Right now, I think I am going to go with Top Front and Rear Height for my upper speakers. But I still want to keep my ring of 9. Still not reasonably priced 13 channel AVR's on the horizon though. My side speakers are probably going to stay 2 in parallel on each side.
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post #38626 of 55443 Old 03-02-2016, 05:33 AM
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Im probably going to go for in ceiling and just get it done properly. My only worry is that with my setup would it be worth getting 4 in ceiling or is that too excessive and i should get 2 only. Im a bit unsure, but maybe 4 is my best option for future proofing also, especially since if someone will be installing these for me it will only ever happen once and i won't get a chance to do it again.

I am also actually getting DBOX seats installed in the room, hence that is why i am moving the seats forward to allow for the dbox motion and recline of the seat. Ive been told that i need to move it about 10inches forward from the back wall. My room (apart from the ceiling) is not that big, which is why I'm restricted in moving the seats too forward.

My original plan was to install 7.1.4 but the cinema guy who's going to do the installation told me that for 7 channels surround, i need 2 speaks to either side of me and 2 speakers behind me, i can't have in front of me. He said it won't be worth it really and that i should stick with 5.1.4. I really really wish that i could bring the 2 back speakers down to ear level like my fronts but the problem is that they would be too close to my ears if i put them on the back wall, also if i try to put them on the side walls either side of the sofas, then its not possible either, as there is a door right there on the right side of the sofa, hence i don't know where i would put the speaker.

Unfortunately i don't really have the luxury for incremental improvements, i will have to get the best i can at the go (installations taking place in april) and keep it like that for a long long time. So fingers crossed that we can get it right first time!
It sounds like your better off with a set up like mine. I have two ceiling speakers for my atmos heights between the front and listening position and a rear set of matching ceiling mounts for my surrounds. I have those about 6' behind the listening position.

Is this ideal on paper, no. Does it still sound good, yes.

It's a 5.1.2 setup and if something changes in the future and you add ear level surrounds you can re-assign the rear ceilings as back height speakers. The only drawback is having to pull cable through the attic but if you have a second floor that can been even more difficult. If your doing this during the home build run the cables anyway, even if you don't plan on using them now. Have speaker cable in two ceiling locations and run two more in the place you think a surround might work. Leave extra length coiled up and tack it to the stud. Measure the location of the cable so once it's sheet rocked you can always use the measurement to locate. The extra length coiled up will give you room to move it if you change your mind. A cheap toner kit will help you locate the cables behind the sheet rock if you don't measure.

One thing to consider is I know with the Onkyo's you can tell it if your seating is in the back of the room. It takes that under consideration when it starts the AccuEQ alignment.

The bottom line is wire for each likely scenario now because its a pain in the ass to do it later. Better to have and never need then to need and not have.
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post #38627 of 55443 Old 03-02-2016, 09:31 AM
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Onkyo 646 only supports two height speakers.

Marantz SR6010 is their lowest cost offering which will support four height speakers if you add a two channel amp for the rear heights.
Yep i am know about the 646, I'm actually looking at getting something with more power anyway for improvement in sound.

Marantz was my choice although i have not decided which one to go for, ideally i would want one that can do 7.1.4 without having to add any extra amps etc...



Also i think i will get together some pics diagrams of the room over the next few days to make it easier for everyone to visualise my room and then decide what to go for. Ideally, id like to go for 7.1.4, but lets see if that will be possible or not cause of the space.

One question, if i install 4 speakers in the ceiling that is on ground floor, will the noise from here speakers be heard in the bedroom above the ceiling? Im not sure, as i know they are pointing downwards and that not much sound comes out of the atmos speakers anyway, but this could be a potential problem when someone is asleep at night upstairs?
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post #38628 of 55443 Old 03-02-2016, 10:20 AM
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Yep i am know about the 646, I'm actually looking at getting something with more power anyway for improvement in sound.

Marantz was my choice although i have not decided which one to go for, ideally i would want one that can do 7.1.4 without having to add any extra amps etc...
Unfortunately, no D+M receivers have more than 9 internal amps. You'll have to get at least an external stereo amp (or repurpose an existing receiver).
Quote:
Also i think i will get together some pics diagrams of the room over the next few days to make it easier for everyone to visualise my room and then decide what to go for. Ideally, id like to go for 7.1.4, but lets see if that will be possible or not cause of the space.

One question, if i install 4 speakers in the ceiling that is on ground floor, will the noise from here speakers be heard in the bedroom above the ceiling? Im not sure, as i know they are pointing downwards and that not much sound comes out of the atmos speakers anyway, but this could be a potential problem when someone is asleep at night upstairs?
Yes, unless you do a lot of extra work to add soundproofing, they'll leak up into the room overhead. Low bass frequencies from the subwoofer will be heard throughout the house, too. Unfortunately, I'll have to redirect you to the home theater construction forum for details in how best to add soundproofing for both. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...-construction/

(Batpig posted a summary of the necessary work not too long ago, but I can't easily find it. )
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I'll be honest, while I'm no expert in sound distribution in a home, there is no level of sound proofing that will prevent bass from getting into the above room if the home is built like a traditional home. You may reduce it but it will still be quite noticeable in the above room, no way to avoid that at a price that would be reasonable.

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post #38630 of 55443 Old 03-02-2016, 11:35 AM
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I'll be honest, while I'm no expert in sound distribution in a home, there is no level of sound proofing that will prevent bass from getting into the above room if the home is built like a traditional home. You may reduce it but it will still be quite noticeable in the above room, no way to avoid that at a price that would be reasonable.
Box in box built wouldn't cut it? Inner box completely (acoustically) detached from the rest of the house?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leedesert View Post
I'll be honest, while I'm no expert in sound distribution in a home, there is no level of sound proofing that will prevent bass from getting into the above room if the home is built like a traditional home. You may reduce it but it will still be quite noticeable in the above room, no way to avoid that at a price that would be reasonable.
Box in box built wouldn't cut it? Inner box completely (acoustically) detached from the rest of the house?
That's why I included " at a price that would be reasonable".
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post #38632 of 55443 Old 03-02-2016, 12:34 PM
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Onkyo tx-nr3030 have 11 discret truly channels.

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post #38633 of 55443 Old 03-02-2016, 02:07 PM
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"Only to be used in a cool dry place"...

(Sorry, couldn't help it.)

*Warning* None of my suggestions, ideas or even thoughts have any WAF, in any way!
My Build Thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-gen...formation.html

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post #38634 of 55443 Old 03-02-2016, 02:22 PM
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Unfortunately, no D+M receivers have more than 9 internal amps. You'll have to get at least an external stereo amp (or repurpose an existing receiver).
Yes, unless you do a lot of extra work to add soundproofing, they'll leak up into the room overhead. Low bass frequencies from the subwoofer will be heard throughout the house, too. Unfortunately, I'll have to redirect you to the home theater construction forum for details in how best to add soundproofing for both. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...-construction/

(Batpig posted a summary of the necessary work not too long ago, but I can't easily find it. )
Do you mean the base leak will happen to room above because of the in ceiling speakers? or do you mean that the base will leak as it normally does through the walls and ceiling?
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post #38635 of 55443 Old 03-02-2016, 02:26 PM
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Just in general -- ultra low bass frequencies will physically couple with and resonate through the structure of the home. It's very difficult to contain. I'm sure you've heard how when a big truck rumbles by you can hear the deep rumble inside the house. Or in a big multiplex when you can hear the thuds and rumbles from the next theater over.

The holes for in ceiling speakers are more of an issue for higher frequency leakage. This can be mitigated if you use ICs with an integral sealed rigid enclosure like Triad.
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post #38636 of 55443 Old 03-02-2016, 03:25 PM
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Why hello all. I'm new to the Atmos thread and I'm looking to upgrade my current 5.2 set up to a 5.2.4 configuration utilizing in ceiling speakers. My question is has anyone utilized or does anyone have any opinion on using 4 Polk Audio - RC60i 6-1/2" In-Ceiling Speakers for the TF and TR sound? I've recently spent a large chunk of change on a new Pioneer Elite SC-95 and my better half is lets just say scowling at the thought of spending more on "My Hobby" (I tell you; some people ) I currently can pick up 4 of the RC60's for around $260. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Have the Polk RC80I as my ceiling speakers and no problem they sound great, just remember that if you have a drop ceiling tiles that you have to reinforce them with plywood, I just used 1/2 of the plywood for each speakers.
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post #38637 of 55443 Old 03-02-2016, 06:04 PM
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Agreed, low frequency bass is REALLY hard to fully contain. Someone once measured what it would take and it basically was something crazy like a 4 foot thick concrete bunker that was over 10 feet underground. The test was done back in the late 90's in a "Mythbusters" style experiment before Mythbusters even existed.

In the home, the best you can realistically do is reduce the LFE and bass as much as possible within your budget.

For me, our theater is directly below the master bedroom, so I really wanted to hold in as much sound as possible (and keep sounds outside of the room out).

We have found what works best for us at our price point, and it really is amazingly good and for just a couple hundred bucks more than not doing it. Does it block all sound? Nope. Does it allow you to watch an action movie at a reasonable level and allows someone to still sleep upstairs easily? Yes.

Basically, and just talking about the ceiling since that is a key part but also really requires attention to all surfaces and structures that make up the room to prevent flanking sound moving from say a wall to the ceiling where they touch, we did this... We added Whisper clips and hat channel to the ceiling joists. Put nice thick batts of insulation up there (still leaving an air gap which is important too), and then attached two layers of 5/8" drywall with the max load of GreenGlue between the two layers. The mass of the drywall with the effectiveness of the GreenGlue coupled with (pun intended) the decoupling as best as possible with the hat channel and Whisper Clips really does hold a lot of the energy in the room.

Again, you still have to do something to keep sound in and out from your walls and if possible "decouple" the walls from the ceiling to greatly reduce the sound traveling up the wall and into the ceiling joists.

As for ceiling speakers, I just went through the debate of in-ceiling or "on-ceiling" speakers myself. I couldn't bring myself to cut 4 good sized holes into my "soundproofed" ceiling, and making large enough backer boxes for my round speaker holes would be quite the challenge, so I went with "on-ceiling" speakers (actually on-wall speakers that I am making my own mount to put them at the angle I want and to secure them to the ceiling). There is enough sound energy coming out of them for Atmos or DTS:X that I wouldn't want the sound unobstructed from upstairs. Now if you have just a plain drywall ceiling, it may not make much difference since the on-ceiling speakers will resonate through the drywall and up through the ceiling joists into the bedroom upstairs.
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post #38638 of 55443 Old 03-02-2016, 06:09 PM
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Look what arrived today... AWESOME!!!! Finally have a legit ATMOS demo disc... instead of my downloaded ISO lol.
Hi Daniel, how did you pay for yours?
Mine arrived today but I can't quite work out how to pay it.
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post #38639 of 55443 Old 03-03-2016, 05:20 AM
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Have the Polk RC80I as my ceiling speakers and no problem they sound great, just remember that if you have a drop ceiling tiles that you have to reinforce them with plywood, I just used 1/2 of the plywood for each speakers.
Thanks for the advice. After looking at it a little further I think I might step down a little to the RC60I due to size of the listening area. I've also been looking at the Yamaha NS-IC600. Do you have any opinions on these? (Isn't our hobby great

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post #38640 of 55443 Old 03-03-2016, 08:13 AM
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Hi Daniel, how did you pay for yours?
Mine arrived today but I can't quite work out how to pay it.
When you figure that out let me know because I have no idea lol.... Im probably going to have to google translate the entire bill lol...

Projector: BenQ w1500 + ES Sable 135" 16:9 Screen AVR: Marantz SR6011 ATMOS/DTSX + Unity 2ch Amp + Darbee 5000s Speakers: Polk Audio TSX550t (FL/FR), CS2 Series II (C), FXiA6 (SL/SR), Monitor40 Series II (RL/RR), TSx110B (Ceiling FL/FR RL/RR) LFE: (2) JL Audio 12" Subs + (2) Dayton 15" Subs + (2) ButtKicker LFE Arrangement: 7.1.4 Source: OPPO UDP-203 4k Bluray Player, Roku 4, HTPC, 2017 nVidia Shield, Hauppauge OTA DVR
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