The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 1338 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #40111 of 54992 Old 06-07-2016, 05:26 AM
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3 stars from ebert for 10 cl . Maybe worth a rental unless the presentation is excellent.
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post #40112 of 54992 Old 06-07-2016, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by j.s.woods View Post
I have a 5.2 setup with a marat receiver. My current surround channels are in cleiling speakers. My wall height is 10 ft. I have a marantz sr7010 avr. I have no place to position the surrounds at ear level.

Can I add more in ceiling speakers at different locations to enable atmos? Or will the physical location of the surrounds not provide enough separation. Thanks
Would it be possible to do in wall surrounds lower down? As said above, you're not going to be able to do Atmos if all your speakers are on the ceiling. You need to have a separate bed and height layer.

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post #40113 of 54992 Old 06-07-2016, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by shyyour View Post
Has anyone seen "Now You See Me" in atmos (4K)?
How was the mix?
I thought it was pretty awesome.

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post #40114 of 54992 Old 06-07-2016, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ramcharger1979 View Post
I thought it was pretty awesome.

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post #40115 of 54992 Old 06-07-2016, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Unfortunately, DTS is way behind Atmos and is only 7.1.4 (currently) in the Altitude... With Atmos, I am getting all 11.2.8 discrete channels!!
Are the current Atmos mixes really putting out 11.2.8 discrete or are they basic 7.1.4 beds with objects moving through the other channels if you have them? If the beds are really 11.8 (or really, even if they are 7.4) where do they fold to in a 5.2 system (or are they dropped)? For example, isn't it the case that the rear surrounds in a DDTHD 7.1 will fold to the sides for 5.1? For Atmos, folding in this fashion would seem to really change the sound. With x.6 or more a helicopter starting in the top fronts and progressing to the rears is pretty different from the sound being all folded into the top center in a x.2 or even changing to start in the front L,C or R and moving up to the top centers and stopping with the trailing sound happening to the sides. (And of course the "snap to" is a whole other conversation....) I am sure all this might be dependent on what the sound guys do with their tools. Has FilmMixer or someone else given us any insight here?
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post #40116 of 54992 Old 06-07-2016, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j.s.woods View Post
I have a 5.2 setup with a marat receiver. My current surround channels are in cleiling speakers. My wall height is 10 ft. I have a marantz sr7010 avr. I have no place to position the surrounds at ear level.

Can I add more in ceiling speakers at different locations to enable atmos? Or will the physical location of the surrounds not provide enough separation. Thanks
Could you install in-wall speakers for surrounds and re-purpose your current in-ceiling speakers as Atmos?

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post #40117 of 54992 Old 06-07-2016, 06:44 AM
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So I gave the Revenant a go last night. My initial feeling is the same that neutral X it is more aggressive than DSU - but it may not necessarily be a bad thing (which is a change from my initial take). I may just need to get used to the presentation. So while I think theBland and I share the same observation in terms of which upmixer is more aggressive, I'm not yet sold that DTS is the more balanced - but it is exciting/entertaining. You can demo the opening scene of the initial hunt when the camera moves low along the water, drop the mic, and instantly have your audience sold on the benefits of this tech. You hear the brook all around you and for the whole scene it goes on never letting you forget where you are. The more aggressive nature of DTS really suits the revenant because of the camera work (very lengthy single camera scenes, that move all over the environment). It literally put you in the middle of the action. When this gets re-released in DTS X, I'm all over it. There were some scenes that did trip up the presentation but as an upmixer that is to be expected.

Its a good time for cinema sound right now. I hope the studios stop mucking about with these limited feature releases though.
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post #40118 of 54992 Old 06-07-2016, 06:52 AM
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After owning an ATMOS AVR for a few months I finally found a movie where I actually could tell it was ATMOS, the Cinema version of 5th element. I could actually hear the bullets etc traveling over head.

I have a ONKYO 737 with Pioneer AJ Atmos speakers sitting a top my pioneer AJ speakers up front.
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post #40119 of 54992 Old 06-07-2016, 06:57 AM
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Immersive sound is about ambience... it fills the room with sound ....ATMOS will be refined and as the director intended..
Auro upmix for example is too aggressive such that it sounds good for music but I personally don't care for it at all.
DTS has to show something for immersive sound as it is losing the battle with ATMOS - so I feel they will get very aggressive with the DTS X mixes and Nueral will be a more aggressive implementation too..does not mean it will be refined or correct but if it makes movie magic for someone then it is all good for that person ..
The thing about immersive codecs is that most rooms will sound different from each other depending on how many speakers etc etc...
But once you hear immersive sound - even in music concerts - Metallica Through The Never In Immersive Setup... awesome.
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post #40120 of 54992 Old 06-07-2016, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j.s.woods View Post
I have a 5.2 setup with a marat receiver. My current surround channels are in cleiling speakers. My wall height is 10 ft. I have a marantz sr7010 avr. I have no place to position the surrounds at ear level.

Can I add more in ceiling speakers at different locations to enable atmos? Or will the physical location of the surrounds not provide enough separation. Thanks
You might want to consider floor-standing speakers for the surrounds. Of course, being able to use them depends on the people sharing your home.

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post #40121 of 54992 Old 06-07-2016, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
I understand that part, but the catch-22 is that no one will be able to know if DTS: X tracks ever get past 7.1.4 to something akin to Atmos since even the Altitude is limited in its DTS software.
When DTS completes its DTS-X implementation to [hopefully] 24.1.10 (like Atmos), it will be a simple update for Altitude owners. We will know about it as it'll be all over the Altitude thread.
The last I heard is that a full implementation of consumer DTS: X would entail 32 positions. However, some are optional sub effects channels and a few locations are zoned and not fully discrete like Atmos.

Maybe it will change... who knows at this point.
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post #40122 of 54992 Old 06-07-2016, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by jqmn View Post
Are the current Atmos mixes really putting out 11.2.8 discrete or are they basic 7.1.4 beds with objects moving through the other channels if you have them? If the beds are really 11.8 (or really, even if they are 7.4) where do they fold to in a 5.2 system (or are they dropped)? For example, isn't it the case that the rear surrounds in a DDTHD 7.1 will fold to the sides for 5.1? For Atmos, folding in this fashion would seem to really change the sound. With x.6 or more a helicopter starting in the top fronts and progressing to the rears is pretty different from the sound being all folded into the top center in a x.2 or even changing to start in the front L,C or R and moving up to the top centers and stopping with the trailing sound happening to the sides. (And of course the "snap to" is a whole other conversation....) I am sure all this might be dependent on what the sound guys do with their tools. Has FilmMixer or someone else given us any insight here?
The Altitude has a separate arrangement with Dolby. It can discretely process 24.1.10. The Dolby software allows for discrete channels in any speaker count up to 24.1.10. DTS-X is capped at 7.1.4 for all consumer SSPs. That will change in the near future for Altitude owners and should mimic Dolby at 24.1.10.

The Altitude can upmix up to 24.1.10 as well depending on the mix.

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post #40123 of 54992 Old 06-07-2016, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by jqmn View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Unfortunately, DTS is way behind Atmos and is only 7.1.4 (currently) in the Altitude... With Atmos, I am getting all 11.2.8 discrete channels!!
Are the current Atmos mixes really putting out 11.2.8 discrete or are they basic 7.1.4 beds with objects moving through the other channels if you have them? If the beds are really 11.8 (or really, even if they are 7.4) where do they fold to in a 5.2 system (or are they dropped)? For example, isn't it the case that the rear surrounds in a DDTHD 7.1 will fold to the sides for 5.1? For Atmos, folding in this fashion would seem to really change the sound. With x.6 or more a helicopter starting in the top fronts and progressing to the rears is pretty different from the sound being all folded into the top center in a x.2 or even changing to start in the front L,C or R and moving up to the top centers and stopping with the trailing sound happening to the sides. (And of course the "snap to" is a whole other conversation....) I am sure all this might be dependent on what the sound guys do with their tools. Has FilmMixer or someone else given us any insight here?
Dolby Atmos and DTS: X for the home normally start with a 7.1 channel bed for backwards compatibility with current Blu-ray audio specs.

Since cinema Dolby Atmos has a 9.1channel bed, two objects of the maximum of 20 in the home version are allotted as surrogate overhead channel beds.

Home Atmos can render to 24.1.10 using those remaining positional 3D (x y z axis) objects right now.

DTS: X for the home has up to 9 additional objects and at some point may be able to handle 32 positions. Right now software and media, and hardware are fixed at 7.1 and four immovable objects for the overheads.

Last edited by Dan Hitchman; 06-07-2016 at 09:48 AM.
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post #40124 of 54992 Old 06-07-2016, 09:40 AM
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Are the current Atmos mixes really putting out 11.2.8 discrete or are they basic 7.1.4 beds with objects moving through the other channels if you have them?
Some of the sound in an Atmos soundtrack is not in channels. Instead, those sounds are assigned x,y,z coordinates in 3D space. Which means they're not tied to a specific number of speakers. The Atmos decoder simply renders those sounds to their intended locations as best it can using the number of speakers in your set-up. With this sort of approach, the same soundtrack can be played back over everything from a 5.1.2 set-up to a 24.1.10 set-up (max rendering locations for home Atmos).

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post #40125 of 54992 Old 06-07-2016, 09:46 AM
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Some of the sound in an Atmos soundtrack is not in channels. Instead, those sounds are assigned x,y,z coordinates in 3D space. Which means they're not tied to a specific number of speakers. The Atmos decoder simply renders those sounds to their intended locations as best it can using the number of speakers in your set-up. With this sort of approach, the same soundtrack can be played back over everything from a 5.1.2 set-up to a 24.1.10 set-up (max rendering locations for home Atmos).
Correct. For example, my second set of side surrounds are object channels as mentioned above. Very little sound comes out until needed whereas the primary side surrounds are almost always making sound.

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #40126 of 54992 Old 06-07-2016, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Don Draper View Post
So I gave the Revenant a go last night. My initial feeling is the same that neutral X it is more aggressive than DSU - but it may not necessarily be a bad thing (which is a change from my initial take).
The best demonstration I've ever heard that lets you hear the differences between DSU and Neural:X involved using only the height speakers playing (floor speakers unplugged) and the scene from The Revenant where the captain at the fort goes upstairs to get money out of the safe. Playing that scene with both upmixers is an ear opener. Neural:X puts a lot more sound up there, but doesn't reproduce any of the subtle ambience and background atmosphere that DSU does.

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post #40127 of 54992 Old 06-07-2016, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Some of the sound in an Atmos soundtrack is not in channels. Instead, those sounds are assigned x,y,z coordinates in 3D space. Which means they're not tied to a specific number of speakers. The Atmos decoder simply renders those sounds to their intended locations as best it can using the number of speakers in your set-up. With this sort of approach, the same soundtrack can be played back over everything from a 5.1.2 set-up to a 24.1.10 set-up (max rendering locations for home Atmos).
Correct. For example, my second set of side surrounds are object channels as mentioned above. Very little sound comes out until needed whereas the primary side surrounds are almost always making sound.
That's supposedly because the current implementation of Home Atmos does not array the side and rear surround bed channels like at the cinema.

It's weird that Dolby didn't include their 850 cinema processor's workaround for consumer Blu-ray Atmos tracks that allows for bed arraying.
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post #40128 of 54992 Old 06-07-2016, 09:59 AM
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[QUOTE=Dan Hitchman;44566777][QUOTE=thebland;44566449]
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Some of the sound in an Atmos soundtrack is not in channels. Instead, those sounds are assigned x,y,z coordinates in 3D space. Which means they're not tied to a specific number of speakers. The Atmos decoder simply renders those sounds to their intended locations as best it can using the number of speakers in your set-up. With this sort of approach, the same soundtrack can be played back over everything from a 5.1.2 set-up to a 24.1.10 set-up (max rendering locations for home Atmos).
Quote:

Correct. For example, my second set of side surrounds are object channels as mentioned above. Very little sound comes out until needed whereas the primary side surrounds are almost always making sound.
That's supposedly because the current implementation of Home Atmos does not array the side and rear surround bed channels like at the cinema.

It's weird that Dolby didn't include their 850 cinema processor's workaround for consumer Blu-ray Atmos tracks that allows for bed arraying to Trinnov's custom software renderer.
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post #40129 of 54992 Old 06-07-2016, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
The best demonstration I've ever heard that lets you hear the differences between DSU and Neural:X involved using only the height speakers playing (floor speakers unplugged) and the scene from The Revenant where the captain at the fort goes upstairs to get money out of the safe. Playing that scene with both upmixers is an ear opener. Neural:X puts a lot more sound up there, but doesn't reproduce any of the subtle ambience and background atmosphere that DSU does.
Neutral X definitely lets you know you've got some speakers up there. I suppose its a could thing that they bring different attributes to the table.

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post #40130 of 54992 Old 06-07-2016, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
That's supposedly because the current implementation of Home Atmos does not array the side and rear surround bed channels like at the cinema.

It's weird that Dolby didn't include their 850 cinema processor's workaround for consumer Blu-ray Atmos tracks that allows for bed arraying.
Word is this is going to come in a future update - as they work it out with Dolby. Subjectively, I haven't noticed an issue.

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #40131 of 54992 Old 06-07-2016, 01:17 PM
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DTS:X in Gods of Egypt was actually pretty good. And I am looking forward to the UHD of Independence Day tomorrow, as it is also DTS:X.

As far as Neural:X, I think it depends on the mix. I've heard it where it sounded like it was "trying too hard", but on a movie like The Revenant, I thought it did a fantastic job and made me feel like I was there.

I thought the DTS:X was amazing when watching Gods of Egypt - my couch never vibrated so much for such long periods of time! Also looking forward to Independence Day!


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post #40132 of 54992 Old 06-07-2016, 02:34 PM
 
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Hi guys,
I'm in the middle of acoustically treating my room. One of the issue I am facing is the placement of Surround Back. I need to place defusers on back wall. My ceiling is 8' tall and currently I have surround back mounted just above to where the seat top ends. Because of this placement, I can't mount the diffuser. Someone (from acoustic company) told me that I should be mounting the back wall speakers at 6 or 6 1/2 feet high. I told him that I have ceiling speakers and the advice on AVS is that all the floor speakers should have at least 4 feet of distance from ceiling speaker.

So you see my dilemma. What is correct? Should the surround back be 6 1/2 feet high on back wall or they should be at least 4 feet below the ceiling speaker? Since my ceiling is ~ 8', putting ceiling speakers 6' leaves them only 1 foot away from ceiling speakers.

Please advice.
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post #40133 of 54992 Old 06-07-2016, 03:32 PM
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No, on is fine, it's the location, I was able to get away with 2 up on top of high bookcases pointed down at the MLP and they're not perfect, but they're certainly close enough.

Granted it's not for purists, but you can fudge a lot and still get decent results.
So you would say you can tell the difference between 5.1 or 7.1 and Atmos with front heights? I would like to know more about personal experiences with Atmos using front heights instead of ceiling speakers.
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post #40134 of 54992 Old 06-07-2016, 03:46 PM
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Hi guys,
I'm in the middle of acoustically treating my room. One of the issue I am facing is the placement of Surround Back. I need to place defusers on back wall. My ceiling is 8' tall and currently I have surround back mounted just above to where the seat top ends. Because of this placement, I can't mount the diffuser. Someone (from acoustic company) told me that I should be mounting the back wall speakers at 6 or 6 1/2 feet high. I told him that I have ceiling speakers and the advice on AVS is that all the floor speakers should have at least 4 feet of distance from ceiling speaker.

So you see my dilemma. What is correct? Should the surround back be 6 1/2 feet high on back wall or they should be at least 4 feet below the ceiling speaker? Since my ceiling is ~ 8', putting ceiling speakers 6' leaves them only 1 foot away from ceiling speakers.

Please advice.
Keep the surrounds lower...if you raise them they will start interfering with each other...

FWIW...the most important acoustic treatment is for the 4 corners of the room...my opinion, but the are a number of consultants that will tell you the same thing.

It can clean up the sound with a minimum visual impact...

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post #40135 of 54992 Old 06-07-2016, 04:00 PM
 
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Keep the surrounds lower...if you raise them they will start interfering with each other...
Just as I thought.
Quote:
FWIW...the most important acoustic treatment is for the 4 corners of the room...my opinion, but the are a number of consultants that will tell you the same thing.

It can clean up the sound with a minimum visual impact...
I believe corner room treatment is for low frequencies. My situation is that I am sitting 5 feet from back wall and I installed 1" Linaccoustics on the back wall and also the side wall that is b/w MLP and back wall. After that, I feel like that sound is not as large as it used to be. May be I should get rid of the Linaccoustics from back wall and add diffuser on the side wall that is b/w MLP and back wall.


One more question related to surround speaker. Unfortunately my room is only 12' wide. After putting three couches, it takes up enough space that putting a surround speaker at 90 degrees from MLP gets in the way. Anyone who has to walk through has to be careful and basically walk side way to make sure they don't knock down my surround speaker. I do have a stand that can bring the surround high enough to bring them above couch height. Would it be ok to move them back enough to clear the way? This will make surround to be placed around 130 degrees from MLP.
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post #40136 of 54992 Old 06-07-2016, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbeenjammin View Post
Lucy absolutely is in the top 3 atmos tracks available and it includes 4 atmos trailers to boot.You will be blown away guaranteed!
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Atmos is only available on the Asian version

3D Blu-Ray Rental has the imported Atmos version of "Lucy" to rent for $8.99. I watched it a couple nights ago and was impressed. It's a good action film to boot.

Here's the link: http://www.store-3d-blurayrental.com...ucyda12-14.htm

Last edited by meli; 06-07-2016 at 04:38 PM.
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post #40137 of 54992 Old 06-07-2016, 05:13 PM
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I used to have fh and top middle . The fh to me did not impact the sound. They were set up for pllz and neox so not angled down but the tweeters were. Switching to tf/tr was borderline night and day.
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post #40138 of 54992 Old 06-07-2016, 05:15 PM
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Careful not to place treatment willy nilly. Reflection points should be mapped specifically or you will get strange results.
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post #40139 of 54992 Old 06-07-2016, 05:30 PM
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New to Atmos here and have just installed my 4 ceiling speakers but I fear I may have made a mistake. Watching the page one video on this thread it shows the front ceiling speakers close to the front speakers whereas the pic I attached has them closer to the seating position, which is correct or does it matter?
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Anthem AVM 60, Paradigm Sub 2, Paradigm S8s with C5, Anthem Statement M1 Amps, 174" Curved AT Scope Screen, Epson Pro Cinema LS10000 Laser 3D Projector, Samsung 4K Blu-ray Player, Oculus Rift, Quest and Go VR, Xbox One X, PS4, Clark Synthesis Transducer For Chair
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post #40140 of 54992 Old 06-07-2016, 06:39 PM
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I thought the DTS:X was amazing when watching Gods of Egypt - my couch never vibrated so much for such long periods of time! Also looking forward to Independence Day!


Ray
Believe the hype. I am half way through Independence Day, and there is a massive amount of overhead sound. From the overwhelming alien arrival to subtle dogs barking and insects. It's impressive.
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