The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 1515 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #45421 of 54996 Old 07-11-2017, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Yamaha's DSP modes are not directional with use of steering logic so I haven't even tested that (TOP vs. HEIGHT) at all. Good question though.

I have tried both settings with my rear ceiling speakers (the ones that could have fallen on you while in deep REM because my installation skills are poor to quite poor ).

As you know they are a bit more than the recommended 45% behind me, and when running YPAO the 3060 sets them to "height". When I tried it as both top and height I couldn't tell a difference. I didn't do much testing though, just enough to not have to think about it anymore.
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post #45422 of 54996 Old 07-11-2017, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by tbaucom View Post
I don't have a link and don't have time to search thru the thread right now. I am referring to the one showing height at 45 degrees and tops at 60 degrees.
Thought so.

See @sdurani 's response.


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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
I assume by "TOP" you mean telling the receiver, in my case a Yamaha 3060, that the speakers are in the ceiling. I also assume that by "HEIGHT" you mean telling the receiver that two of those speakers are mounted high on the wall. If so, then I have been doing the same thing you are, leaving all four of my in-ceiling speakers set for TOP, regardless of whether I am playing a TrueHD Atmos or DTS:X MA soundtrack. I use the 3060's Enhanced, Dolby, and Neural X DSPs pretty much interchangeably, without changing the settings of the four in-ceiling from TOP. It works very well.

TOP and HEIGHT = settings in configuration screen

"in ceiling" and "on wall" = physical locations

I have my front overhead speaker physically in a "height/on wall" location but I still set both front and rear overheads to TOP.



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Originally Posted by carp View Post
I have tried both settings with my rear ceiling speakers (the ones that could have fallen on you while in deep REM because my installation skills are poor to quite poor ).

As you know they are a bit more than the recommended 45% behind me, and when running YPAO the 3060 sets them to "height". When I tried it as both top and height I couldn't tell a difference. I didn't do much testing though, just enough to not have to think about it anymore.
Yeaahhh.... about that.



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post #45423 of 54996 Old 07-11-2017, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ChiWestSider View Post
I recently went from FH & RH to FH & TM. I found previously very little difference between DSU & Neural X, with an advantage to Neural X being my listening pleasure. I've found no audible difference between Atmos and DTS:X when playing soundtracks.

I switched to the FH TM after moving and mounting my speakers. I ran setup again and played the helicopter demo. With the DSU engaged, I find that the sound stays in the rear surround speakers and above me panning side to side but never to the front. Once I switched to Neural:X, the helicopter swooped over head just fine. I think this is what some other forum members was talking about a few day ago about the time that WONDERFUL LINK was posted for demos!
Over time I have slowly completely migrated from nothing but 2 channel music to now nothing but using the upmixer. I prefer DSU by a wide margin. Neural X sounds way too diffuse. I haven't tried a comparison with movies... I never think about it but I should compare sometime.
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post #45424 of 54996 Old 07-11-2017, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post


Yeaahhh.... about that.



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post #45425 of 54996 Old 07-11-2017, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by tbaucom View Post
Does anyone know for sure where the speakers are physically located in a DTS:X mixing room? From DTS:X test signals it seems obvious they use height configuration but I have not seen an actual mixing room to see where the speakers are physically located. As far as I know, all that has ever been posted is a diagram from an unofficial source. Maybe filmixer can tell us about the actual mixing rooms and if they are setup any differently for DTS:X and Atmos.
After reading this thread I got to googling and while I couldn't find any official direction from DTS I did find an interesting article that was put out after some journalists were invited by DTS to experience DTSX at their facilities. You can read the article here: http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...er-guide/22341 where you will see how DTS set up their room to demo for the journalists and get an idea of where they place the speakers. Also interesting in the article was a shot of the software, the MDA Creator, used by mixers to create the mixes (see attached). You can see in the photo how it matches up to the common diagram we have for where to place the speakers for DTSX. Hopefully that helps and gives you a little more confidence in where to place your speakers. Since the vast majority of the immersive audio mixes are in Atmos, I am content to place my speakers according to Dolby's guidelines and let my AVR figure out how to compensate when playing back DTSX files.
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post #45426 of 54996 Old 07-11-2017, 01:20 PM
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Ehh. I wasn't worried.

I know what it has stood up to.
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post #45427 of 54996 Old 07-11-2017, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

TOP and HEIGHT = settings in configuration screen

"in ceiling" and "on wall" = physical locations

I have my front overhead speaker physically in a "height/on wall" location but I still set both front and rear overheads to TOP.
I was thinking you had all of your .4 speakers on the ceiling in approximately the locations recommended by Dolby. In my setup my .4 speakers are mounted to the ceiling at around 45 degrees front and back. When I ran the angle measurement on my yamaha 3060 it set them both as tops. Have you experiment with things configured as front height and top rear?
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post #45428 of 54996 Old 07-11-2017, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by tbaucom View Post
I take it this means DTS:X demos have used speakers on the ceiling and not in the traditional height locations?
Speakers mounted overhead, though not physically on the ceiling. A good example is one of the smaller sound rooms at DTS headquarters:




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post #45429 of 54996 Old 07-11-2017, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by tbaucom View Post
I was thinking you had all of your .4 speakers on the ceiling in approximately the locations recommended by Dolby. In my setup my .4 speakers are mounted to the ceiling at around 45 degrees front and back. When I ran the angle measurement on my yamaha 3060 it set them both as tops. Have you experiment with things configured as front height and top rear?

Yes and the best sounding configuration is how I have it set now: both front and rear set as TOP/OVERHEAD. Only DTS:X needs a change to HEIGHT.

The 5100 correctly set them as front HEIGHT and rear TOP when I ran YPAO but I changed the settings to what it sounded (and rendered) best.
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post #45430 of 54996 Old 07-11-2017, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
I assume by "TOP" you mean telling the receiver, in my case a Yamaha 3060, that the speakers are in the ceiling. I also assume that by "HEIGHT" you mean telling the receiver that two of those speakers are mounted high on the wall. If so, then I have been doing the same thing you are, leaving all four of my in-ceiling speakers set for TOP, regardless of whether I am playing a TrueHD Atmos or DTS:X MA soundtrack. I use the 3060's Enhanced, Dolby, and Neural X DSPs pretty much interchangeably, without changing the settings of the four in-ceiling from TOP. It works very well.
I do the same with my A3060, though probably more from ignorance than indifference. I have not owned any films in DTS:X except as coincidence would have it, I picked up Underworld Blood Wars (UHD) on sale yesterday which does have DTSx. So now I don't wonder if I shouldn't do the same and have a separate configuration with them set as heights instead of ceiling for dtsx decoding. I downloaded some DTSx demo material but none of it is very conclusive. Would need to find test tones (I haven't tried DTS actual website, which is where the dolby ones can be found).

I did wonder about the neural:x upmixer, but @Scott Simonian seems to have tested that. I'll perhaps do some of my own sometime I have the time to play.

In the meantime, I think the A3060 can easily enough accommodate both setups through the two "speaker pattern" designations (and/or by using "scenes") for easy switching back and forth. Cost is just time and running another YPAO for good measure. When I get the 2nd sub hooked up, perhaps I'll do this again.
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post #45431 of 54996 Old 07-11-2017, 04:26 PM
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I'd like to meet this Scott Smithsonian.
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post #45432 of 54996 Old 07-11-2017, 04:44 PM
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Just went to atmos with new yamaha receiver and 2 ceiling speakers and just love it. I'm debating weather I should move my 2 surround backs to the top back to make it 5.2.4 from 7.2.2. But I feel I'll miss that rear effect. Also, my side surrounds are mountain up high above the ear pointed to listening area and don't know if it will interfere with the rear ceilings since they will be kinda close. I know sides are supposed to be lower, but I can't in my room.

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post #45433 of 54996 Old 07-11-2017, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by bluemark81 View Post
I'm sorry if this has already been covered, but I got tired of going through all the posts. My speakers are Paradigm Signature S6's which have a curved top, so they are not conducive to placing atmos speakers on them. Can atmos speakers go on a stereo cabinet that sites between the front speakers like in the photo?
Spoiler!
Preferably, the Atmos add-ons should be placed horizontally higher than your ears, in order to minimize the amount of audio you can hear directly from the speaker. In a perfect world, you would hear nothing directly from the speaker and everything would come reflected down to you from the ceiling, but... well... speakers aren't lasers.

Your cabinet seems like it is far too low, and you would get too much audio directly "line-of-sight" from the add-on speakers.
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post #45434 of 54996 Old 07-11-2017, 07:41 PM
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Dolby Atmos Possible Problem

Very interesting discussions. I have a question about upgrading my HT to Dolby Atmos. I've just upgraded to an Anthem AVM 60 from an AVM 20 using their 20% discount offer. I would like to upgrade my current 7.1 system to a 7.1.4. The room is about 20 x 19 (garage) that I converted into a recording studio control room in 1992. I'm using the Mackie HR824s for LCR, Mackie HRS120 sub, and 4 Event 20/20s for the surrounds. The Anthem has XLR balanced outputs that work great with these (old) studio monitors which maybe problematic given whatever is used for the Height 1 and 2 left and rights. Are there appropriate powered Atmos speakers you could recommend that can receive XLR cables that aren't too large or do I have to rig some sort of work around with with a separate amplifier and non powered speakers? Or do I need to resort to a Dolby Atmos Enabled speaker situation on top of the front LR and rear surround LR which many have said works but isn't as good as ceiling speakers?
Thanks!

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post #45435 of 54996 Old 07-11-2017, 08:53 PM
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[QUOTE=Jonas2;54194665]
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Originally Posted by Chadolac View Post
Hello all! First time posting, so please bare with me if anything I say comes across wrong!

I recently purchased a home that has the benefit of us needing to do some renos.. what a great time to enhance my set up you might think, well so did I!

Right now I'm running a 5.1 set up with an old HK reciever and Mission tower speakers, I love them.

What I'm thinking I want is to wire the house for a future 7.1 set up, and while I'm at it.. add ceiling speakers for Dolby Atmos..

Here's the kicker, most gents are saying You should use at least four ceiling speakers for optimization, yet most affordable recievers only support 5.1.2..

So my question is, what are your thoughts on wiring four speakers to work on the .2 channel? As shown below..

I currently have four ceiling speakers that should be up to the task and am thinking of upgrading my receiver to the Sony STR DN1080 which should be able to handle the power required.
My thoughts are that you should not waste your time or money trying it this way. You will not get the intended result. By all means, install the 4 Atmos speakers, or at least pre-wire, but just save your money and purchase a receiver capable of processing all 11 channels. It's not like you need to buy a new receiver every year, so I recommend not pinching pennies here. Don't jump in just to jump in. The result you seek is best achieved with patience, and investing in proper gear up front, once. You can get an 11 channel receiver and drive all of the channels with one piece of equipment, or a lot of blokes may opt for an amp to drive mains, and then let the receiver handle the "lighter" channels (surrounds, heights).

Just my opinion of course.

Solid point,

I suppose I could look into a higher end reciever.. I'm not rich so a 6k + reciever is just not in the wheelhouse

Do you or anyone know of a reciever that fits into the real of affordable that is capable of 5.1.4 or higher? (7.1.4)

I'm open to suggestions
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post #45436 of 54996 Old 07-11-2017, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Hresna View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadolac View Post
What I'm thinking I want is to wire the house for a future 7.1 set up, and while I'm at it.. add ceiling speakers for Dolby Atmos..

Here's the kicker, most gents are saying You should use at least four ceiling speakers for optimization, yet most affordable recievers only support 5.1.2..

So my question is, what are your thoughts on wiring four speakers to work on the .2 channel? As shown below..

I currently have four ceiling speakers that should be up to the task and am thinking of upgrading my receiver to the Sony STR DN1080 which should be able to handle the power required.
That is an interesting idea and I'm sure someone out there has done a variant of this. I haven't studied your wiring diagram to see exactly how it works from an electrical load side, but the concept would be a power share between all four speakers so you might be volume limited.

Of particular note, however, if you have .2 of processing, the most you'd want to double up on the wiring is 2 speakers so that you have discrete left and rights (or maybe front and back). In a true Atmos implementation, all four would be discrete so you would get object imaging between them. The Atmos decoders are forced to a Left/Right decode of atmos speakers in pairs, so if you were to have a pair of Lefts and a Pair of Right, separated front to back, they are both getting the same audio, but dispersing it more evenly across your MLP. You'll get proper left-right object panning, but no front/back panning (which is the case for a regular 5.1.2). I'm not sure whether the boost in the benefit of the extra 2 in a .4 comes from this front/back object decoding (it is certainly part of it), or if it is subjectively more to do with the more enveloping speaker placement and less directional sound.

In the very worst case, you can set it up this way with your budget-friendly AVR, and upgrade later on to one that will do the processing for all 11 channels (for a bump up in price, but there are still non-separates solutions available). Some, like mine, have only 9 amps, so an inexpensive 2ch external amplifier is used to amplify the final 2 channels, but I get a discrete 7.2.4. In your case, you could do a 5.2.4 with this model without the need of an external amp.

[When you do upgrade, though, you'll be rewiring those speakers, so give yourself some play and accessibility to the wires, or figure out a simple way to have both wiring configs available from the get-to with only minimal adjustment through an accessible connector box, or something]

Caveat: I'm hardly an expert. Hopefully you get some other opinions as well.
Thanks, I was worried that I'd be losing half the volume .. but maybe the reciever can compensate?

That being said, it might be worth just wiring it up, and waiting to add the last two speakers when recievers catch up cost wise
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post #45437 of 54996 Old 07-12-2017, 02:47 AM
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[quote=Chadolac;54211513]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas2 View Post

My thoughts are that you should not waste your time or money trying it this way. You will not get the intended result. By all means, install the 4 Atmos speakers, or at least pre-wire, but just save your money and purchase a receiver capable of processing all 11 channels. It's not like you need to buy a new receiver every year, so I recommend not pinching pennies here. Don't jump in just to jump in. The result you seek is best achieved with patience, and investing in proper gear up front, once. You can get an 11 channel receiver and drive all of the channels with one piece of equipment, or a lot of blokes may opt for an amp to drive mains, and then let the receiver handle the "lighter" channels (surrounds, heights).

Just my opinion of course.

Solid point,

I suppose I could look into a higher end reciever.. I'm not rich so a 6k + reciever is just not in the wheelhouse

Do you or anyone know of a reciever that fits into the real of affordable that is capable of 5.1.4 or higher? (7.1.4)

I'm open to suggestions
check Accessories4less. There's a Marantz SR6011 which is about $1k. It can do 5.1.4 & 7.1.4 with an external amp. It also can do both Dolby Atmos & DTS:X.

There are also cheaper 9.2 amps that do Dolby Atmos only or are limited to 7.1.2
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post #45438 of 54996 Old 07-12-2017, 05:48 AM
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I'm sorry if this has already been covered, but I got tired of going through all the posts. My speakers are Paradigm Signature S6's which have a curved top, so they are not conducive to placing atmos speakers on them. Can atmos speakers go on a stereo cabinet that sites between the front speakers like in the photo?


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It is not optimum, but you may be able to make it work. My L/R (NHT Classic) also have curved tops, and my system set-up is very similar to yours. I am currently repurposing a pair of NHT SuperZero 2.1 speakers as bouncers, sitting on my rack. The results thus far are not bad.

I had no intention of ever going Atmos, but after buying a new Anthem MRX 720, I decided to experiment with a pair of mini-monitors sitting on top of my rack, angled back. I have yet to hear a discrete sound that seemed to come from the bounce point on the ceiling but, the sense of ambience is quite pronounced. I am not really getting any localization...just a very pronounced sense of ambience, depending upon the scene. In this orientation, the tweeters are just a few inches below seated ear height. I also created a sort of wave guide by applying some weatherstripping around the tweeter to further suppress direct sounds. Take a look at the PSB Atmos speakers to get an idea of what I was trying to mimic.

I may eventually buy a proper pair of elevation speakers and wall mount then to the left and right of my display such that they can be above ear height as suggested, but thus far I am pleased with the results. Even more so, since I already owned the speakers it cost me nothing to experiment.

Good luck.

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post #45439 of 54996 Old 07-12-2017, 06:30 AM
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Yes and the best sounding configuration is how I have it set now: both front and rear set as TOP/OVERHEAD. Only DTS:X needs a change to HEIGHT.

The 5100 correctly set them as front HEIGHT and rear TOP when I ran YPAO but I changed the settings to what it sounded (and rendered) best.
In my setup, even though I actually have top(on ceiling speakers) in the front and rear I have always run them as height for DTS:X per the recommendations in this forum and that is also how I have been running them for Neural:X. That is why I wanted to know how others have their speakers configured for Neural:X. I had not seen it mentioned before.

Last night I tested leaving them as top for Neural:X, This sounded fine though I think the elevation layer was noticeably lowered in the top configuration. I felt the elevation of the sound stage was more similar to Dolby Surround if i used top configuration for Dolby Surround and height for Neural:X. The thing I did like about top for Neural:X was the overhead speakers didn't seem to be as busy which I often find quite distracting when I use the DTS upmixer. From my testing, I would say the overhead speakers are less prominent when using Neural:X if configured as tops.
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post #45440 of 54996 Old 07-12-2017, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Chadolac View Post
Solid point,

I suppose I could look into a higher end reciever.. I'm not rich so a 6k + reciever is just not in the wheelhouse

Do you or anyone know of a reciever that fits into the real of affordable that is capable of 5.1.4 or higher? (7.1.4)

I'm open to suggestions
Oh, I can appreciate that. I'm not rich either, took me long time to save for what I have. But that's the point - unless time is against you somehow, you've got time to save and get what you really want. And you won't need $6,000, you'll be able to do this for a lot less.

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post #45441 of 54996 Old 07-12-2017, 07:43 AM
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Oh, I can appreciate that. I'm not rich either, took me long time to save for what I have. But that's the point - unless time is against you somehow, you've got time to save and get what you really want. And you won't need $6,000, you'll be able to do this for a lot less.
I would like to get opinions on Atmos/DTSX speaker placement for my open floor plan room with a ceiling that slopes from the front (14 ft) to the back (8 ft). I am going to have an Atmos System installed by the end of the month and the dealer / installer has recommended the Top Front speakers be installed on the front wall near the ceiling (just under 14 ft) and the Top Rear speakers be installed behind the MLP just in front of a ceiling joist (about 9 ft high). The speakers will be Goldenear SuperSat 3c on swivel mounts so that they can be aimed at the MLP.

I am happy with the Top Rear placement, but I have some reservations with the Top Front placement. Do you think that the Top Front speakers will be too far forward (further back than the Front L/R - Goldenear Triton Ones) and too high for a good Atmos/DTSX sound field?
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post #45442 of 54996 Old 07-12-2017, 07:53 AM
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I do the same with my A3060, though probably more from ignorance than indifference. I have not owned any films in DTS:X except as coincidence would have it, I picked up Underworld Blood Wars (UHD) on sale yesterday which does have DTSx. So now I don't wonder if I shouldn't do the same and have a separate configuration with them set as heights instead of ceiling for dtsx decoding. I downloaded some DTSx demo material but none of it is very conclusive. Would need to find test tones (I haven't tried DTS actual website, which is where the dolby ones can be found).

I did wonder about the neural:x upmixer, but @Scott Simonian seems to have tested that. I'll perhaps do some of my own sometime I have the time to play.

In the meantime, I think the A3060 can easily enough accommodate both setups through the two "speaker pattern" designations (and/or by using "scenes") for easy switching back and forth. Cost is just time and running another YPAO for good measure. When I get the 2nd sub hooked up, perhaps I'll do this again.
I'm not sure I completely understand what you are saying regarding DTS:X settings. To clarify, I think the consensus in this thread is you should have a separate setting for DTS:X with your speakers configured as height in the avr(different designation in the avr not physical location). Leaving the avr configuration as top is fine for Neural:X upmixer.
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post #45443 of 54996 Old 07-12-2017, 08:18 AM
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Very interesting discussions. I have a question about upgrading my HT to Dolby Atmos. I've just upgraded to an Anthem AVM 60 from an AVM 20 using their 20% discount offer. I would like to upgrade my current 7.1 system to a 7.1.4. The room is about 20 x 19 (garage) that I converted into a recording studio control room in 1992. I'm using the Mackie HR824s for LCR, Mackie HRS120 sub, and 4 Event 20/20s for the surrounds. The Anthem has XLR balanced outputs that work great with these (old) studio monitors which maybe problematic given whatever is used for the Height 1 and 2 left and rights. Are there appropriate powered Atmos speakers you could recommend that can receive XLR cables that aren't too large or do I have to rig some sort of work around with with a separate amplifier and non powered speakers? Or do I need to resort to a Dolby Atmos Enabled speaker situation on top of the front LR and rear surround LR which many have said works but isn't as good as ceiling speakers?
Thanks!
Is mounting more Event 20/20s on the ceiling for the Atmos speakers not an option?
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post #45444 of 54996 Old 07-12-2017, 08:36 AM
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In my setup, even though I actually have top(on ceiling speakers) in the front and rear I have always run them as height for DTS:X per the recommendations in this forum and that is also how I have been running them for Neural:X. That is why I wanted to know how others have their speakers configured for Neural:X. I had not seen it mentioned before.

Last night I tested leaving them as top for Neural:X, This sounded fine though I think the elevation layer was noticeably lowered in the top configuration. I felt the elevation of the sound stage was more similar to Dolby Surround if i used top configuration for Dolby Surround and height for Neural:X. The thing I did like about top for Neural:X was the overhead speakers didn't seem to be as busy which I often find quite distracting when I use the DTS upmixer. From my testing, I would say the overhead speakers are less prominent when using Neural:X if configured as tops.
If I had to describe how N:X sounded with it set to HEIGHT, I'd say it sounded taller. Not an overwhelming sense of overhead action. Less of it. More fuzzy but a bigger presentation. I actually thought it was okay.

What sold me on using the TOP/OVERHEAD setting was that with much listening (full length movie watching) that often, very often with N:X I would get the sensation of a "legacy" audio mix sounding like a true 11.1 mix. I mean, really discrete (sounds like real Atmos) overhead action. I never got that using HEIGHT.

Also, it's a whole other button sequence on the remote to not have to deal with. I leave it in 'OVERHEAD MODE' all the time only switching to 'HEIGHT MODE' when decoding native DTS:X. Like most with D/M products, I'd rather stick to one setting than have to deal with another setting to tinker with when I just want to get on and watch a movie.


So while I get what you're saying "if native DTS:X prefers HEIGHT, why not the upmixer?" yes.... yes. All good questions. I prefer not to have to fiddle around with modes when I know the one that I set as default (TOP) sounds the best anyway. Whether DTS says so or not.
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post #45445 of 54996 Old 07-12-2017, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Fafa2e View Post
I would like to get opinions on Atmos/DTSX speaker placement for my open floor plan room with a ceiling that slopes from the front (14 ft) to the back (8 ft). I am going to have an Atmos System installed by the end of the month and the dealer / installer has recommended the Top Front speakers be installed on the front wall near the ceiling (just under 14 ft) and the Top Rear speakers be installed behind the MLP just in front of a ceiling joist (about 9 ft high). The speakers will be Goldenear SuperSat 3c on swivel mounts so that they can be aimed at the MLP.

I am happy with the Top Rear placement, but I have some reservations with the Top Front placement. Do you think that the Top Front speakers will be too far forward (further back than the Front L/R - Goldenear Triton Ones) and too high for a good Atmos/DTSX sound field?
I have about the same, exact situation and yes, I do believe the top front speakers are too far forward (currently mine are up a little ways on the sloped ceiling--mine is 9ft at the front and 16ish at the back). I just recently had the thought to use jerry-rigged projector mounts to hang the front speakers down from the ceiling to bring them closer to the listening position. My first atmos set-up was a .2 and I don't think the way I have it set-up now in a .4 gives enough of an "overhead" presence.

However, your installer's proposed set-up might has some interesting potential. If the top fronts are located on the wall near the ceiling and the ceiling slopes down towards the listening position, then the ceiling is going to be reflecting and diffusing much of the sound from the top front, which COULD be pretty effective in rendering the overhead channel sound effects. The sound could be less localizable yet still have a weighty presence. The top rears being where they will be hard for your ears to localize anyways since they are not only behind you but also overhead, which has been my own experience with my own ears, anyways.

At any rate, you won't have a basis for comparison (in your own home, I'm assuming anyways) so chances are you still will be mightily impressed by the added height dimension regardless of how it might compare to other set-up scenarios.
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post #45446 of 54996 Old 07-12-2017, 08:51 AM
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If I had to describe how N:X sounded with it set to HEIGHT, I'd say it sounded taller. Not an overwhelming sense of overhead action. Less of it. More fuzzy but a bigger presentation. I actually thought it was okay.

What sold me on using the TOP/OVERHEAD setting was that with much listening (full length movie watching) that often, very often with N:X I would get the sensation of a "legacy" audio mix sounding like a true 11.1 mix. I mean, really discrete (sounds like real Atmos) overhead action. I never got that using HEIGHT.

Also, it's a whole other button sequence on the remote to not have to deal with. I leave it in 'OVERHEAD MODE' all the time only switching to 'HEIGHT MODE' when decoding native DTS:X. Like most with D/M products, I'd rather stick to one setting than have to deal with another setting to tinker with when I just want to get on and watch a movie.


So while I get what you're saying "if native DTS:X prefers HEIGHT, why not the upmixer?" yes.... yes. All good questions. I prefer not to have to fiddle around with modes when I know the one that I set as default (TOP) sounds the best anyway. Whether DTS says so or not.
Exactly. That is what I was trying to say by elevation. The sound stage isn't as tall with the top setting. To get the height or tallness that I perceive with Dolby Surround, Neural:X had to be in the height configuration. The top config seemed to isolate the output more closely to sounds that Neural:X thinks should be above you. It didn't seem to include as much overall ambiance.
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post #45447 of 54996 Old 07-12-2017, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Fafa2e View Post
I would like to get opinions on Atmos/DTSX speaker placement for my open floor plan room with a ceiling that slopes from the front (14 ft) to the back (8 ft). I am going to have an Atmos System installed by the end of the month and the dealer / installer has recommended the Top Front speakers be installed on the front wall near the ceiling (just under 14 ft) and the Top Rear speakers be installed behind the MLP just in front of a ceiling joist (about 9 ft high). The speakers will be Goldenear SuperSat 3c on swivel mounts so that they can be aimed at the MLP.

I am happy with the Top Rear placement, but I have some reservations with the Top Front placement. Do you think that the Top Front speakers will be too far forward (further back than the Front L/R - Goldenear Triton Ones) and too high for a good Atmos/DTSX sound field?
Hmmm. I just don't know, that seems too far forward and too high in my opinion. I've never heard such an arrangement, so it might work - but my sense is that certain sounds at least might seem off, those sounds that really were meant to pan around the Atmos speakers just might not produce the intended effect. Have you asked your dealer if they've done a similar install, and if so, hopefully they would be honest in reporting the results?

The arrangement I'd imagine could still be immersive, and might not be too bad. However, it's not the way I'd do it, but I'm not an expert, and I know aesthetics must be taken into consideration and your dealer is likely thinking about that too.

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post #45448 of 54996 Old 07-12-2017, 09:26 AM
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Exactly. That is what I was trying to say by elevation. The sound stage isn't as tall with the top setting. To get the height or tallness that I perceive with Dolby Surround, Neural:X had to be in the height configuration. The top config seemed to isolate the output more closely to sounds that Neural:X thinks should be above you. It didn't seem to include as much overall ambiance.
Yes. There is quite a drop in perceived ambiance using Neural:X.

That is why I like to alternate between the two new upmixers based off my mood, the movie mix itself and...whatever else. But my opinion of the two is that I prefer DSU when a mix is more nuanced with a greater sense of ambiance. Now when I watch a more bombastic title where I have expectations of very aggressive audio, including overhead action... I prefer Neural:X.


Fight Club, Prometheus, The Revenant = DSU

Transfomers, Godzilla, Dredd = Neural:X

That's not to say I or anyone couldn't/shouldn't flip that around, I just found that is how I pick my upmixer these days. It's good to change it up from time to time. Now you're making me want to go back and relisten to some stuff with it set to HEIGHT (Neural:X).
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post #45449 of 54996 Old 07-12-2017, 09:45 AM
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I choose from among my Yamaha 3060's DSPs based on what sounds best with any particular source. I probably use Enhanced the most, followed by either DD Surround or Neural:X. All three matrix non immersive soundtracks to 7.2.4. With a lossless TrueHD Atmos soundtrack I use Enhanced exclusively. Enhanced is designed to supplement the native Atmos, not alter it. To my ears at least, it works well.

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post #45450 of 54996 Old 07-12-2017, 09:58 AM
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...I use Enhanced exclusively. Enhanced is designed to supplement the native Atmos, not alter it. To my ears at least, it works well.
It simply puts a little bit of the lower speakers into the overheads. It fills the overheads with sound from all lower speakers including the center channel.

Stopped using it right away with movies, at least.

But Auromatic fans.... eat your heart out.
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