The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 1532 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #45931 of 54986 Old 08-19-2017, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
I use that solution. I lower the channel level on the center speaker above the screen to where it can't be heard, and then increase it again to where speach is lifted to the center of screen. Works very well, kind of like Yamaha's dialog lift.
This is exactly the method I used to get a phantom center of screen image.
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post #45932 of 54986 Old 08-19-2017, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Just curious, why? What's the height of the lower C speaker?

Anyway, if voices image at ear level but cars image higher, rolling off the high frequencies of the upper speaker might help. Easier said than done, I realize. I have various analog EQs sitting around, so something like that might be worth a try. Or aiming the speaker straight out rather than down toward you. Or drop the level on the upper speaker a wee bit. Might strike a good compromise between dialog and cars. Just a thought.

If someone could figure out a great way to get dialog to image where there's no speaker (vertically), it would be a boon to the next gen direct view screens that will eventually replace projectors.
Height of the lower center is 30" (just below the screen) angled up to ear level. I've adjusted the upper center speaker level to give a phantom image from the center of the screen, which is 2 1/2 feet above the lower center and 2 1/2 feet below the upper center. Since the surround speakers are all at ear level, a front to side to rear pan starts from the center of the screen and drops to ear level as the object moves. My observation of movies is that the moving objects tend to be at the bottom of the screen, while dialog is from the center. A single center at the usual position at the lower edge of the screen would position the sound of a moving object (car) in the right place, but wrong for dialog. I've chosen to bias for dialog, since that's always present; while moving objects are less frequent.

I was hoping that the Sony OLED with the panel as sound transducer would have an analog external input for mono use as a center speaker. It doesn't. That feature, alone, would bias me to paying the Sony premium over LG for a 79" panel for my Living Room. I see that as the best fix for a center channel for large flat panels.

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post #45933 of 54986 Old 08-19-2017, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Agreed. But as i can not have front height and top front from one processor, i can't answer that.
I know

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post #45934 of 54986 Old 08-19-2017, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Some comments on the alleged requirement for ceiling speakers to be of the same brand/make/model as the other speakers in the room.

My experience suggests otherwise. I am no speaker designer but do have a couple of functioning ears. I have heard home theaters with "matching" ceiling speakers and those that do not have "matching' speakers. With proper placement, some rational decisions on what ceiling speaker to purchase (dispersion pattern and efficiency are important considerations) AND a reasonable room correction system (which most are), I have yet to hear ANY issues that suggest that the ceiling speakers must be of the same brand/make/model.

Up until yesterday, I was using Tannoy DI6 DC ceiling speakers and just changed them out for RSL C34E ceiling speakers. As you can see from the following plot (ignore the blue line), the FR (uncorrected - red line) at the MLP is more than satisfactory.



These are certainly not the only two speaker brands/models that will work, but only an indication that the "celling speakers MUST match" is an inaccurate position in real world applications. And, FWIW and IMHO, the RSL's are a steal at $250 per pair, shipped. And, the efficiency of both the Tannoy's (89) and the RSL's (88) were less than that of my Triad base level speakers (92).

I don't remember anyone saying they MUST match. But it is always a good choice to match speakers when possible.

I think with "proper placement, some rational decisions on what ceiling speaker to purchase (dispersion pattern and efficiency are important considerations) AND a reasonable room correction system" you can get good sound out of almost any speaker combination.

Not really sure what point the FR graph is doing but I'm glad you are getting nice results with new speakers. My room has three different sets of speakers. Mains, surrounds and overheads yet with enough calibration I can achieve a mostly cohesive surround "bubble".

So you had Tannoy overheads .... what is the rest of your system? Also Tannoy DI6 DC's?
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post #45935 of 54986 Old 08-19-2017, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
I don't remember anyone saying they MUST match. But it is always a good choice to match speakers when possible.
I read that somewhere which prompted my post.

Quote:
Not really sure what point the FR graph is doing
Now that I think about it, neither do I.

Quote:
So you had Tannoy overheads .... what is the rest of your system? Also Tannoy DI6 DC's?
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post #45936 of 54986 Old 08-19-2017, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
Height of the lower center is 30" (just below the screen) angled up to ear level. I've adjusted the upper center speaker level to give a phantom image from the center of the screen, which is 2 1/2 feet above the lower center and 2 1/2 feet below the upper center. Since the surround speakers are all at ear level, a front to side to rear pan starts from the center of the screen and drops to ear level as the object moves.
I totally respect your decision to add an upper center speaker, especially if it works for you, as you are keenly attuned to the elevation aspects. Just offering my observations, if I may:

Screen center (vertically) is not a strict requirement for cinema movie presentation. Can be ~1/3 to 1/2 from the bottom.

Human hearing is much more acute laterally than vertically. Evolution and all that rot. A moderate vertical misalignment (say, less than 10 deg) between C and L/R passes without notice.

Thanks to "ventriloquist effect," the power of eyes dominating ears in determining locations of on-screen sources, our brains conspire to convince us that the apparent position of the actors' faces is the source of their voices, when it often is not. And even though we are more sensitive along the horizontal axis, it turns out to be distracting if the dialog is jumping back and forth "accurately", so positional dialog is used with care.

30" above the floor is higher than I have my center speaker, at 26", with the L/R at ear level (40"), about a 7 deg difference. When the lights are out, no one realizes the speaker is below the screen. Not saying it would not be ideal to have the C speaker behind the screen. I left room for that in my build, but decided in the end to use a non-AT screen in favor of picture quality.

Carry on!
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post #45937 of 54986 Old 08-19-2017, 01:18 PM
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Could someone please explain how to get the over head speakers correctly configured? I understand the 30/45/55 degree angle from MLP, but what confuses me is the distance between each? And how or what angle to the L/R speakers. I would imagine the wider apart the overheads are to each other the wider the bubble. I look at the dolby guidelines and still can not figure it out.
I been reading and looking at these.





Any help would be greatly appreciated. Just started to set my room up and looking into this before I order speakers and equipment.
thanks
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post #45938 of 54986 Old 08-19-2017, 01:34 PM
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One thing that has always bothered me is how many films stick dialog in the center and call it quits. On a small TV at home that might make sense as left/right speakers are probably to the left and right of the TV, but on larger screens a voice could be several feet to the left or right of center and given lateral sensitivity this sounds strange.

Fortunately, not all films and studios do that. Disney comes to mind for proper vocal placement relative to screen placement. But if you haven't watched one in awhile it can almost be a bit of a shock to notice dialog tracking position correctly. With all the extra space on Blu-Rays, I'd rather see some "small screen" and "large screen" mixes to select in a home theatre versus a living room or bedroom system than eight foreign languages I'll never use.
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post #45939 of 54986 Old 08-19-2017, 01:42 PM
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I can read all of the above wrt the center channel(s) and decorrleation and beyond and I will also have to say . WHEW!.

Thanks for doing the heavy lifting science stuff . .

my "experimenting" this spring while convincing myself that I needed to upgrade my surrounds from the DIYSG F4's to a pair of "88 Specials",
the left at about 7+ ft and the right at 6+ wrt MLP,
was (finally - a verb!)
to play "Marble Halls, the Enya version (stereo) , for one, without a center channel and , iirc, using DSU and a few other modes . . .

Then I read this today:

" At the risk of gross oversimplification, with DSU the vocalist and background singers stay up front, and what is left for the surrounds is the pure uncorrelated stuff. That tends to be a directionless, amorphous cloud of sound with a tilt toward the higher frequencies (where things are naturally less correlated). If you listen to the surrounds alone, it's not mono, but it's not stereo in the usual sense either"

EXACTLY , my what I was hearing

In DSU, iirc, The bed layer all sounded identical, like a mono signal, "a directionless, amorphous cloud " all around and quietly so. boosting the MV really didn't change anything

Kick in the CC and it all came back. the spaciousness exploded and the voice dominating / projecting out into the room . .

Thanks for a great discussion . .keep it coming

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post #45940 of 54986 Old 08-19-2017, 01:56 PM
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Spacing of tops,

maybe helpful to @BCRSS

short version: 3 years ago Sanjay visited me to hear the Submaximus sub. The he asked me if I'd heard the good news.

ATMOS.

We spent an hour, him directing, and me up and down a step ladder.

Using the 45 degrees , it happened that my 4 tops formed a 7 foot square with the MLP in the center. and mostly inline with the fronts and rear surrounds

that's 45 degrees front , back and left and right . .

as my room is about 14.5 wide there, there a notion of a good degree of "symmetry" wrt separation form each other and the bed layer.

so maybe that helps with the planning

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post #45941 of 54986 Old 08-19-2017, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
I totally respect your decision to add an upper center speaker, especially if it works for you, as you are keenly attuned to the elevation aspects. Just offering my observations, if I may:



Screen center (vertically) is not a strict requirement for cinema movie presentation. Can be ~1/3 to 1/2 from the bottom.



Human hearing is much more acute laterally than vertically. Evolution and all that rot. A moderate vertical misalignment (say, less than 10 deg) between C and L/R passes without notice.



Thanks to "ventriloquist effect," the power of eyes dominating ears in determining locations of on-screen sources, our brains conspire to convince us that the apparent position of the actors' faces is the source of their voices, when it often is not. And even though we are more sensitive along the horizontal axis, it turns out to be distracting if the dialog is jumping back and forth "accurately", so positional dialog is used with care.



30" above the floor is higher than I have my center speaker, at 26", with the L/R at ear level (40"), about a 7 deg difference. When the lights are out, no one realizes the speaker is below the screen. Not saying it would not be ideal to have the C speaker behind the screen. I left room for that in my build, but decided in the end to use a non-AT screen in favor of picture quality.



Carry on!


After considerable experimentation, some of it with very capable dedicated center speakers, I've had great success in my theater room with tower speakers in phantom mode. I recognize that comb filtering can be an issue and proper setup is essential, but I now use my best, most capable speakers for front and center duties, and they now sound superior to any dedicated center I've owned. I'm currently using Golden Ear Triton 5's, which image very well, but I've also used this method with other speakers and dialogue comes right where it's supposed to and the Triton's superior imaging make the voices exceptionally realistic. I personally will never go back to a horizontally oriented center speaker.


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post #45942 of 54986 Old 08-19-2017, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by healthnut View Post
After considerable experimentation, some of it with very capable dedicated center speakers, I've had great success in my theater room with tower speakers in phantom mode.

I personally will never go back to a horizontally oriented center speaker.
A perfectly valid choice for centrally situated listener(s). Do you keep a center speaker on hand when you have people seated off-axis? Or is thus a solo operation?

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post #45943 of 54986 Old 08-19-2017, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
A perfectly valid choice for centrally situated listener(s). Do you keep a center speaker on hand when you have people seated off-axis? Or is thus a solo operation?


I have a row of 3 seats, and I've sat on the ends with no discernible deficit. To make this work, each front speaker needs to be the same distance from the mlp, and appropriately toed in. I actually discovered this by accident, I was listening to some 2 channel material which I had assumed was multichannel, and was struck by how much BETTER it sounded than my dedicated center setup, particularly with voices. The tweeters on my fronts are close to seated ear level, so I think this also helps to place dialogue appropriately.


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post #45944 of 54986 Old 08-19-2017, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
Spacing of tops,

maybe helpful to @BCRSS

short version: 3 years ago Sanjay visited me to hear the Submaximus sub. The he asked me if I'd heard the good news.

ATMOS.

We spent an hour, him directing, and me up and down a step ladder.

Using the 45 degrees , it happened that my 4 tops formed a 7 foot square with the MLP in the center. and mostly inline with the fronts and rear surrounds

that's 45 degrees front , back and left and right . .

as my room is about 14.5 wide there, there a notion of a good degree of "symmetry" wrt separation form each other and the bed layer.

so maybe that helps with the planning

So I am assuming you picked a few points on ceiling that were 45 degrees from MLP and created a circle around those points on the ceiling?


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post #45945 of 54986 Old 08-19-2017, 02:51 PM
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Question: I sit about 10.5 feet from my LCR's and my surrounds are at about 90 degrees. Couch is about a foot off back wall, no option to move it forward. If I go Atmos, am I limited to just 2 overheads, or can I do 4? If I can do 4, where do I put them?
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post #45946 of 54986 Old 08-19-2017, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCRSS View Post
Could someone please explain how to get the over head speakers correctly configured? I understand the 30/45/55 degree angle from MLP, but what confuses me is the distance between each?
The "??? distance" on your 2nd picture is simple Pythagoras. You have the angle, the distance which comes out of the Pythagoras calculation depends on the height of the ceiling above your head, which is specific to your room.

Ie, this result will then be used for the distance forward between point 1, MLP, and the mid-point between the two speakers (6). Call this "x". the distance between the mid-point of the no. 6's and the mid-point of the no. 7's on your second picture, will be "2x".

Then, for Atmos, you take that distance in front of you on the ceiling, and then trace a line left/right of it until you're in line with the front left/rights and put your top speakers there. So to the question how far apart the two no. 6 (top front) speakers are - that's easy, it's "the same distance apart as your no. 2 front speakers".

There was a "Atmos_Speaker_Placement" spreadsheet that's linked from one of the posts here. It does all the calculations (to get "x" etc) for you. Hopefully someone else will remember where it is. It's excellent.

EDIT: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...l#post34426890
aaranddeeman's Atmos Speaker Placement Calculator and Validator spreadsheet.

The distance in front/behind the MLP is calculated slightly differently between Atmos and DTS:X but in many rooms they are pretty close to each other so as to make no difference.
Atmos only uses the elevation angle, shown on your second diagram as ranges of possible angles you can use. DTS:X uses not only an elevation angle but it specifies an azimuth angle of 45deg. This is why it is different to the Atmos "forward distance x, then across in line with your fronts" way of doing it.

HTH
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post #45947 of 54986 Old 08-19-2017, 03:30 PM
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I want to ask a question, which I think regular posters to this thread are more likely to be able to answer because some of you are audio professionals and many are gifted hobbyists.

Over the past couple of days, I have been watching an old BBC series, MI-5, on Hulu. The native audio codec is PCM 2.0. When I use my Yamaha 3060's Enhanced DSP, the 2.0 audio upconverts to 7.2..4, as expected, so there are surround and immersive effects, albeit fairly minor. Here's the rub, though. When I use the Dolby Surround Upmixer builtin to the 3060, the native 2.0 audio matrixes to only 7.2. The overheads remain silent. This puzzles me because a lot of programming I have heard was upconverted to 7.2.4 just fine with the Digital Surround DSP. Can anyone suggest why the Digital Surround DSP isn't giving me 7.2.4 with MI-5's PCM 2.0 audio? Thanks in advance for any advice.
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post #45948 of 54986 Old 08-19-2017, 03:45 PM
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@BCRSS

So I am assuming you picked a few points on ceiling that were 45 degrees from MLP and created a circle around those points on the ceiling?

We picked points 45 degrees ahead, behind and also to the left and right , following interpretation of the guidelines,

circles were never mentioned

I suppose the assumption of being equi-distant from the mlp seemed self explanatory and good science. . .

and yes I assume its possible to draw a circle that would include the placement of the tops as a 7 ft sq. with the vertices of that square on the circumference of the circle.

breaking ti down . .
half that square would be a 7 x 7 right triangle. a^2 + b^2 = c^2 - 49 +49 = 98, call C = 9.9 ft.

9.9 / 2 =4.95, which would be the radius, if one were to need to draw a circle wherein the circumference intersected the points that are the corners of the square .

now for SCATMOS, if one were going for all tops equi-distant from 1 central point, a circle makes perfect sense.
I didn't do that but now I lowered my surrounds and mover them forward to about 75-80 degrees, I
I can revisit that geometry .

the sides of the square would put my TM's at a linear 3.5 feet from the mlp, a opposed to the 4.95 for the TF and TR . working as a plane measurement

maybe I can work with settings in the SCATMOS amps and add some delay, or change the distance, and check with a SPL meter ., etc.
or
break out the tape measure and see how things measure up for keeping good spacing of the TM's relative to the base layer and particularly the surrounds

as my tops are Volt6's, turning a co-axial on its side is not much of a change

I like the "look" of the klipsch SLX as TM's, they tuck up there like it was almost a real plan.

rabbit hole -What rabbit hole?

HTH
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post #45949 of 54986 Old 08-19-2017, 03:51 PM
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my "images" files was playing hide and seek after I re-did this laptop . .

so , once again -

SCATMOS
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post #45950 of 54986 Old 08-19-2017, 03:52 PM
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Thank you for the explanations. @asarose247 & @mrtickleuk I think I am ready to layout a rough idea of my placements now.


Hopefully by the end of this year I will have a fine setup.


Thanks again
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post #45951 of 54986 Old 08-20-2017, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TL5 View Post
Question: I sit about 10.5 feet from my LCR's and my surrounds are at about 90 degrees. Couch is about a foot off back wall, no option to move it forward. If I go Atmos, am I limited to just 2 overheads, or can I do 4? If I can do 4, where do I put them?


You're realistically limited to 2, and I'd recommend placing them directly overhead. You'd still get a good effect, just no panning in the coronal plane. You're also going to have bass issues sitting that far back, but that's another conversation.


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post #45952 of 54986 Old 08-20-2017, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by healthnut View Post
You're realistically limited to 2, and I'd recommend placing them directly overhead. You'd still get a good effect, just no panning in the coronal plane. You're also going to have bass issues sitting that far back, but that's another conversation.
Agreed but some judicial use of EQ should ameliorate it to a great extent.
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post #45953 of 54986 Old 08-20-2017, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by healthnut View Post
You're realistically limited to 2, and I'd recommend placing them directly overhead. You'd still get a good effect, just no panning in the coronal plane. You're also going to have bass issues sitting that far back, but that's another conversation.


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So if that's the case, am I better off with 4 atmos enabled speakers or 2 overheads?
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post #45954 of 54986 Old 08-20-2017, 11:43 AM
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One thing that has always bothered me is how many films stick dialog in the center and call it quits. On a small TV at home that might make sense as left/right speakers are probably to the left and right of the TV, but on larger screens a voice could be several feet to the left or right of center and given lateral sensitivity this sounds strange.

Fortunately, not all films and studios do that. Disney comes to mind for proper vocal placement relative to screen placement. But if you haven't watched one in awhile it can almost be a bit of a shock to notice dialog tracking position correctly. With all the extra space on Blu-Rays, I'd rather see some "small screen" and "large screen" mixes to select in a home theatre versus a living room or bedroom system than eight foreign languages I'll never use.
Studios don't mix films.. mixers do. The real, only practice effect the studios directly have on how a film sounds has to do with the amount of money they have budgeted to post sound... they also have a strong voice in who the mixers will be, but that usually has more to do with the relationship the mixer has with the director and/or producers.

There are many reasons why you can't/don't pan dialog...... the main practical one being that on films that aren't animated, the production sound usually contains a lot of extraneous noise/ambience that doesn't lend well to panning.

And even when you can, you don't always want to... film is a flat 2 dimension image with spatial and temporal disruptions (picture cuts and camera placement changes)... so while in real life, voices follow people, it can be extremely disconcerning when an actor moves from one side of the screen to the extreme other on a cut.. completely un-natrual, and panning dialog sometimes calls attention to that... we're supposed to help tell the story and not call attention to the sound..

Just because you can, doesn't always mean you should.

That reason alone should explain why it's prevalent on "Disney" films (I think you can use that term to talk about animated films in general...) All of the dialog is recorded in a controlled studio environment. You have complete control over the sound of the voices. I honestly found a lot of the early Disney/Pixar pan fests distracting, and also very disjointing depending on where you sat in the theater...

You can't solve for everyones setup via a different mix... some TV's have speakers on the LR of the screen, some tv's don't.. some home theaters do, some don't

It would be impractical (and foolish) to try and chase that down.. are you then supposed to re-pan all of the effects and music? You must mix it for the intended aspect ratio....

Just my .02.
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post #45955 of 54986 Old 08-20-2017, 02:17 PM
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So if that's the case, am I better off with 4 atmos enabled speakers or 2 overheads?


My initial reaction would be the 2 overheads. Some have reported good results with AE speakers, but the ceiling material, distance and other variables make it very unpredictable from setup to setup. It's easier to get good results with overheads and the consensus is that the audio experience is superior.


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post #45956 of 54986 Old 08-20-2017, 02:49 PM
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@filmmixer

I read an article on panning dialog at some point which is when I started noticing when it was used. It seems like 70mm films had something to do with it. A search shows that's when they first experimenting with it and I gather it's commonly used in Imax documentaries due to the extreme screen size. Perhaps Disney was mentioned or I noticed it there since I believe Tron used it (it was 70mm) and certainly Pixar (e.g. Cars). Gravity makes extensive use of it as well.

The question of what is realistic versus "distracting" seems to come up with surround sound a lot. Using mostly mono type surround effects when 5.1 first came out was often attributed to not wanting to distract viewers from the screen (some argued Pro Logic was all that was needed) while others realized that's not distraction, but immersion. People go to great lengths to create ceiling 'distractions' these days, for example. Whether someone likes the effect or not is subjective. I know someone that prefers mono for everything and wishes explosions weren't so darn loud, but others live for it. To each their own.

Personally, I think some people are just so used to dialog in the center only they forget how totally unrealistic it is (while apparently wanting more "realism" with ceiling speakers and the like and yet locked tight dialog is somehow OK?) You've got people putting center speakers both above and below their screens to get phantom image dialog centered on the screen and yet they don't mind the guy on the left talking to the guy on the right with both their voices coming from the middle where neither is at? Yeah, I have to disagree with that practice.

And no you (obviously) wouldn't remix everything for panned dialog. Just dialog. (sigh)
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Last edited by MagnumX; 08-20-2017 at 03:12 PM.
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post #45957 of 54986 Old 08-20-2017, 03:55 PM
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The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
@filmmixer

I read an article on panning dialog at some point which is when I started noticing when it was used. It seems like 70mm films had something to do with it. A search shows that's when they first experimenting with it and I gather it's commonly used in Imax documentaries due to the extreme screen size. Perhaps Disney was mentioned or I noticed it there since I believe Tron used it (it was 70mm) and certainly Pixar (e.g. Cars). Gravity makes extensive use of it as well.

The question of what is realistic versus "distracting" seems to come up with surround sound a lot. Using mostly mono type surround effects when 5.1 first came out was often attributed to not wanting to distract viewers from the screen (some argued Pro Logic was all that was needed) while others realized that's not distraction, but immersion. People go to great lengths to create ceiling 'distractions' these days, for example. Whether someone likes the effect or not is subjective. I know someone that prefers mono for everything and wishes explosions weren't so darn loud, but others live for it. To each their own.

Personally, I think some people are just so used to dialog in the center only they forget how totally unrealistic it is (while apparently wanting more "realism" with ceiling speakers and the like and yet locked tight dialog is somehow OK?) You've got people putting center speakers both above and below their screens to get phantom image dialog centered on the screen and yet they don't mind the guy on the left talking to the guy on the right with both their voices coming from the middle where neither is at? Yeah, I have to disagree with that practice.

And no you (obviously) wouldn't remix everything for panned dialog. Just dialog. (sigh)

What if the guy and the left and right talk at the same time? Then you can't separate them.

Did I say to never do it? No I did not... go listen to Power Rangers...

Yes... it works great in Gravity... a film that was designed with many locked down (and physically impossible to do in real life) camera shots.

You seem to be the only one actively complaining... you shouldn't ascribe your gripe with everyone else on these boards (for example those with upper and lower C speakers.)

You're entitled to your opinion. So you can disagree (or 'sigh') all you want.

But I make a living for giving mine .

Not every mixer agrees... but you seem fairy incapable of reading what I said and understanding that they are valid point and limitations.... discretion is always a factor... as is every other of the thousands and thousands of decisions that go into a mix.

Regarding your last point... what about foley, or sound effects that accompany the dialog? So no, it's not "obviously..."

Sorry... to say you only need to redo the dialog is a grossly uniformed statement IMO.
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Last edited by FilmMixer; 08-20-2017 at 04:00 PM.
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post #45958 of 54986 Old 08-20-2017, 05:06 PM
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Any help would be greatly appreciated. Just started to set my room up and looking into this before I order speakers and equipment.
thanks
Curt
Review the Atmos Home Theater guide (PDF) as it explains everything. Your Tops should be in-line with your L & R..that will set their wide distance. Then they should be at 45 angle from MLP. Measure your ear height to the ceiling and put them at that distance (front & back) from the MLP. If impractical, do your best to stay close.
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post #45959 of 54986 Old 08-20-2017, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
Personally, I think some people are just so used to dialog in the center only they forget how totally unrealistic it is (while apparently wanting more "realism" with ceiling speakers and the like and yet locked tight dialog is somehow OK?) You've got people putting center speakers both above and below their screens to get phantom image dialog centered on the screen and yet they don't mind the guy on the left talking to the guy on the right with both their voices coming from the middle where neither is at? Yeah, I have to disagree with that practice.
I actually agree with you here. It seems that dialog is "locked" to the center, no matter where the person speaking is placed in the scene. And i find that unrealistic too.
Another example: two people talking, one on the screen, the other out of screen, in the back of the room(behind where you sit and watch the movie). But still both voices come from the center.

I find it spectacular when what happens on screen is followed by what you hear. Like the opening scene in Power Rangers, when he drives and crashes the car, the camera changes all around, and the sounds mirror that change. Very cool, and as it should be, in my opinion.

The very famous scene in a episode of Daredevil, where the camera pans 360 degrees in a car, while a man in the backseat sings, is also a "textbook" example of how what you see and hear is in sync.

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post #45960 of 54986 Old 08-20-2017, 07:05 PM
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Studios don't mix films.. mixers do. ... we're supposed to help tell the story and not call attention to the sound..
As it happens my wife and I just this minute finished watching (for the very first time) Matt Dillon's City of Ghosts (2002). It's hard for me to believe that this was Dillon's sole feature film as writer/director. Everything about it--story, dialogue, acting, direction, character development, camera work, locations, and editing--was just stunning. As you say, the soundtrack put us right in the exotic settings where the action takes place without calling attention to itself.

And, lo and behold, whose name did we spot in the end credits but our very own @FilmMixer! Well done, sir!
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