The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 1588 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #47611 of 55600 Old 01-03-2018, 12:21 PM
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Will setting my amp assignment in my AVR with surround backs, but placing the surround backs at the rear height position completely destroy the atmos sound bubble? I've had it this way for a while, and it sounds good to me, but just wondering if I am perhaps not getting the best sound I could. I have front heights, top rears, and rear heights, but since my SR-6011 AVR can only do 4 height channels, the rear heights are assigned to the AVR as surround backs. Thanks!

| 7.2.4 Photos (Updated Photos 1/5) | Frequency Response | Visual: LG 65” B7A OLED | Elite VMAX-2 Electric 120" | Optoma GT1080 Proj |
| AVR/Amps: Marantz SR-6011 9C | Audio Source AMP-100VS | iNuke 1000DSP; TTs: 4x AuraSound Pro |
| Center: B&W CM Center 2 S2 Ed | Fronts: 2x B&W 684 S1s | Side Surrounds: 2x B&W 685 S1 |
| Front/Rear Heights: 4x Polk T15 | In-Ceiling: 2x Micca M-8C | Subs: 2x Rythmik FV15HP |
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post #47612 of 55600 Old 01-03-2018, 12:39 PM
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I'm getting ready to jump on the home theater train, but I'm having a hard time deciding on how I should set it up.

The room is about 18' deep by 40' wide, but most of that width isn't going to be related to the setup (e.g. future bar). The room is finished, but there are 4 speaker wire runs behind the ceiling drywall. I just need to figure out where the in-ceiling speakers will go. Based on the layout of the room all the speakers other than the LCR and sub will be in-ceiling. I'm going to need to go 5.1.x because there's HVAC in the way of any side surrounds.

So I guess the real question for this thread is what exactly is the right location for mid height speakers? The Dolby guide shows them slightly behind the MLP, but that would put them pretty close to the rear surrounds (which I could put about 3'-4' behind the MLP). Alternatively, the Denon setup guide has them approximately above the MLP. If I went 5.1.4 (or allowed for it in the future) I would probably add the R-14SAs on my existing R-280Fs.

Finally, I picked up a pair of 8" Monoprice Alpha in-ceiling speakers for the rear surrounds. Would I want to go with the same size for the height speakers or would it be a better idea to go with the matching 6.5"?

Really curious to see what your thoughts are on this.
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post #47613 of 55600 Old 01-03-2018, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by TIll16 View Post
I'm getting ready to jump on the home theater train, but I'm having a hard time deciding on how I should set it up.

The room is about 18' deep by 40' wide, but most of that width isn't going to be related to the setup (e.g. future bar). The room is finished, but there are 4 speaker wire runs behind the ceiling drywall. I just need to figure out where the in-ceiling speakers will go. Based on the layout of the room all the speakers other than the LCR and sub will be in-ceiling. I'm going to need to go 5.1.x because there's HVAC in the way of any side surrounds.

So I guess the real question for this thread is what exactly is the right location for mid height speakers? The Dolby guide shows them slightly behind the MLP, but that would put them pretty close to the rear surrounds (which I could put about 3'-4' behind the MLP). Alternatively, the Denon setup guide has them approximately above the MLP. If I went 5.1.4 (or allowed for it in the future) I would probably add the R-14SAs on my existing R-280Fs.

Finally, I picked up a pair of 8" Monoprice Alpha in-ceiling speakers for the rear surrounds. Would I want to go with the same size for the height speakers or would it be a better idea to go with the matching 6.5"?

Really curious to see what your thoughts are on this.
If your Side/ Rear surround channels for your 5.1.4 are in-ceiling, there's no point in trying to do Atmos. There needs to be at least 4' height difference from the bed (5.1 / 7.1) speakers and the height (Atmos / DTS:X) speakers. When you have side/rear surrounds in close height proximity to the top height speakers, the sounds will be muddled together with no separation.
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post #47614 of 55600 Old 01-03-2018, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Will setting my amp assignment in my AVR with surround backs, but placing the surround backs at the rear height position completely destroy the atmos sound bubble? I've had it this way for a while, and it sounds good to me, but just wondering if I am perhaps not getting the best sound I could. I have front heights, top rears, and rear heights, but since my SR-6011 AVR can only do 4 height channels, the rear heights are assigned to the AVR as surround backs. Thanks!
Completely destroy? Definitely not!

How much the sound bubble is negatively impacted will depend on the positioning of the SB in relation to the top-level speakers. Are they on the same horizontal plane? If so, that is certainly not desirable. OTOH, SB speakers are frequently placed higher in elevation than the rest of the surrounds (as are mine) in order to have a clear line of sight to the listeners' ears over chair backs or raised rear row seating.*

But if, as you say, it sounds good to you, then what's to worry?

BTW, there is no AVR currently on the market that can process more than four height channels (only a few hyper-expensive boutique SSP's offer this capability). In the next few months D+M will debut two flagship models that will do 7.1.6, but even then it remains to be seen whether you could run FH + TR + RH as current AVR processors do not allow for assignment of contiguous pairs (i.e., only FH + TM + RH would be feasible).

*ETA: Ideally (according to Dolby Laboratories) the rear speakers should not be more that 1.25 times the height of the front speakers.
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post #47615 of 55600 Old 01-03-2018, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jcp2 View Post
If your Side/ Rear surround channels for your 5.1.4 are in-ceiling, there's no point in trying to do Atmos. There needs to be at least 4' height difference from the bed (5.1 / 7.1) speakers and the height (Atmos / DTS:X) speakers. When you have side/rear surrounds in close height proximity to the top height speakers, the sounds will be muddled together with no separation.
That's disappointing to hear... How about a 5.1.2 using just up-firing front height speakers? I would think they would have a differentiation since they would be several feet apart. Then I could downgrade from the Denon x4300 I was planning on to the x3300.
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post #47616 of 55600 Old 01-03-2018, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by TIll16 View Post
That's disappointing to hear... How about a 5.1.2 using just up-firing front height speakers? I would think they would have a differentiation since they would be several feet apart. Then I could downgrade from the Denon x4300 I was planning on to the x3300.
The upfiring types seem to yield quite mixed results - from good to not good at all - it's the least preferred method, but better than zero. Maybe. I highly recommend becoming familiar with the Dolby documentation on Atmos before you make any decisions:

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...guidelines.pdf

Is there NO way you can get the surround speakers down to ear-ish level, either on-wall, in-wall, on-stand type application?

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post #47617 of 55600 Old 01-03-2018, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TIll16 View Post
That's disappointing to hear... How about a 5.1.2 using just up-firing front height speakers? I would think they would have a differentiation since they would be several feet apart. Then I could downgrade from the Denon x4300 I was planning on to the x3300.
Ideally, The only speakers that should be in/on ceiling are the ones used for Atmos. IE.. Top Front/ Top Middle / Top Rear. Side or Rear surrounds should be @ 36" - 42" off the floor. You should think about running a 3.1.2 or 3.1.4 system. The up firing Atmos add-on modules are fine, provided that you have no in-ceiling speakers used as Side/Rear back surrounds. If you have wires run already, use the speakers already assigned as rear surrounds and reassign them as Top Rear. Don't use them as rear surrounds. You could add two more in-ceiling speakers and place them in front of MLP or if not possible, right above MLP and set them as Top Front or Top middle. As per the Dolby guidelines.
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post #47618 of 55600 Old 01-03-2018, 08:02 PM
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Ideally, The only speakers that should be in/on ceiling are the ones used for Atmos. IE.. Top Front/ Top Middle / Top Rear. Side or Rear surrounds should be @ 36" - 42" off the floor. You should think about running a 3.1.2 or 3.1.4 system. The up firing Atmos add-on modules are fine, provided that you have no in-ceiling speakers used as Side/Rear back surrounds. If you have wires run already, use the speakers already assigned as rear surrounds and reassign them as Top Rear. Don't use them as rear surrounds. You could add two more in-ceiling speakers and place them in front of MLP or if not possible, right above MLP and set them as Top Front or Top middle. As per the Dolby guidelines.
3.1.4 is intriguing for my situation. How do most AVR's handle not having surrounds? Would a 7-channel AVR like the Denon x3300 be able to handle 3.1.4? I know it has the inputs for 7 speakers, but can you map where each speaker is to specify that the ones plugged in the surrounds are actually heights? Also, is there some kind of translation for non-Atmos content to use the height speakers for surround content in any way or would they be useless for other 5.1/7.1 content?

Thanks again for everyone's input!
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post #47619 of 55600 Old 01-03-2018, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by TIll16 View Post
3.1.4 is intriguing for my situation. How do most AVR's handle not having surrounds? Would a 7-channel AVR like the Denon x3300 be able to handle 3.1.4? I know it has the inputs for 7 speakers, but can you map where each speaker is to specify that the ones plugged in the surrounds are actually heights? Also, is there some kind of translation for non-Atmos content to use the height speakers for surround content in any way or would they be useless for other 5.1/7.1 content?

Thanks again for everyone's input!
Maybe @ jdsmoothie can chime in here. he is far more knowledgeable than I. Also I'm on some pretty strong pain pills for a herniated disc, so I'm not always coherent enough to string together the proper sentences. Hopefully others will be able to help out more. Give this thread a quick read https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...s-ceiling.html
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post #47620 of 55600 Old 01-04-2018, 01:04 AM
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Hi Guys, I bought a Marantz SR6011 because I wanted to update to a 5.1.4 setup. Can you help me with some question.

*How can I switch between audio 'upmixing' and the original track ?

For example Batman Begins audiotrack is 5.1 DTS HDMA 5.1 , the receiver does great work with 'upmixing' some of the sound overhead sound like it's really meant Like the bats fly overhead and the sand falls down when little Bruce is in the water well. But how can I switch between upmixing and the original track ?

Our current room is really small (3,5 x 3meters), after hours of testing with speaker placement I'm really happy with the results. The Front speakers and also the TV stands 2,2m in front of the MLP and the rear speaker about 0,5 behind us. Despite the distance from rear to front is minimum I managed to place the Dolby Atmos overhead speakers just within the official measurements. I sounds I'm sitting in a wide atmosphere of sound, hearing sounds far away

* The question is to choose between Flat/ Reference or the L/R bypass?

Flat is calibrated for small rooms, and speakers at close distance, but does it kill the bass ?



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post #47621 of 55600 Old 01-04-2018, 01:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Nick4K View Post
Hi Guys, I bought a Marantz SR6011 because I wanted to update to a 5.1.4 setup. Can you help me with some question.

*How can I switch between audio 'upmixing' and the original track ?

For example Batman Begins audiotrack is 5.1 DTS HDMA 5.1 , the receiver does great work with 'upmixing' some of the sound overhead sound like it's really meant Like the bats fly overhead and the sand falls down when little Bruce is in the water well. But how can I switch between upmixing and the original track ?

Our current room is really small (3,5 x 3meters), after hours of testing with speaker placement I'm really happy with the results. The Front speakers and also the TV stands 2,2m in front of the MLP and the rear speaker about 0,5 behind us. Despite the distance from rear to front is minimum I managed to place the Dolby Atmos overhead speakers just within the official measurements. I sounds I'm sitting in a wide atmosphere of sound, hearing sounds far away

* The question is to choose between Flat/ Reference or the L/R bypass?

Flat is calibrated for small rooms, and speakers at close distance, but does it kill the bass ?



Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G900F met Tapatalk
The green and red sound mode buttons near the bottom of the remote will cycle through the modes available depending on the track being played. Pushing the green movie button while the movie/track is playing will give you the option of forcing stereo or the tracks native format or the native format plus upmixing.
As far as which Audyssey mode that is really up to you to listen and choose which suits your taste/room. If you find you like Flat but bass seems a bit weak you can always tweak your sub level a bit to bring it back up or if your not using DEQ you can activate the tone controls in the options menu and bring it back that way.

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post #47622 of 55600 Old 01-04-2018, 08:33 AM
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[QUOTE=Jonas2;55428224]The upfiring types seem to yield quite mixed results - from good to not good at all - it's the least preferred method, but better than zero. Maybe. I highly recommend becoming familiar with the Dolby documentation on Atmos before you make any decisions:

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...guidelines.pdf

Having used both upfiring and height speakers, I agree that on or at the ceiling is the better solution, if one can do it. BUT, the mixed results from upfiring speakers can mostly be attributed to simple geometry. The most common method for upfiring front speakers is placement on top of towers. Given the usual spec of 30 degrees for the upfiring speaker angle, geometry dictates where the reflected sweet spot will be. In my setup, with 9' ceilings and a 4' high tower, the reflected center spot at a 3' ear height is about 5.5' in front of the towers. If the MLP is a typical 9-10' away from the front towers, the atmos-enabled upfiring speakers are directed to a spot some 4' in front of the MLP--or about shoe level. Even with wide-dispersion speakers, there isn't much of the overhead sound reaching the MLP. On the other hand, if one places the atmos-enabled upfiring speakers on the top of a 24" table (such as the TV stand), the reflected sweet spot is about 7' in front of the speakers. Remember I have a 9' ceiling--if you have an 8' ceiling, these reflected sweet spots are even closer to the front wall and farther from the typical MLP. Another problem with low mounting the atmos-enabled speakers is ear-level leakage of what is supposed to be a sound emanating from the ceiling. My Atlantic Technology atmos-enabled speakers have sound deadening foam in front of the driver to help absorb this. My Pioneer atmos-enabled speakers don't have this, but they have an angle of about 20 degrees of the speaker. Of course, this makes the sweet spot problem even worse. I've concluded that if one cannot or will not move the MLP closer to the display (WAF problems, usually), the most effective use of the atmos-enabled upfiring speakers is for the Top Middle or Top Rear position. This has been discussed a lot in the dolby-enabled upfiring speaker forum. For those of you that thought you would never have a practical use for your High School Geometry class, you were wrong.

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post #47623 of 55600 Old 01-04-2018, 04:59 PM
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I've gotten in touch with my handyman about installing four in-ceiling speakers. I've been obsessing over the Dolby Atmos 5.1.4 document and I am totally confused.

In their overhead diagram the TR speakers are behind the surround rears.

Then in their side view the TR speakers are in front of the surround rears.

So, which is the proper way?

In my current 5.2 setup the surrounds are maybe 120-130 degrees behind the sweet spot, aligned with the fronts. Yeah, I have no idea if the TR should go in front of the surrounds, in line with the surrounds, or behind. Before I start tearing apart my plaster ceiling I absolutely want to get this right the first time.
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post #47624 of 55600 Old 01-04-2018, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by DJ Lushious View Post
I've gotten in touch with my handyman about installing four in-ceiling speakers. I've been obsessing over the Dolby Atmos 5.1.4 document and I am totally confused.

In their overhead diagram the TR speakers are behind the surround rears.

Then in their side view the TR speakers are in front of the surround rears.

So, which is the proper way?

In my current 5.2 setup the surrounds are maybe 120-130 degrees behind the sweet spot, aligned with the fronts. Yeah, I have no idea if the TR should go in front of the surrounds, in line with the surrounds, or behind. Before I start tearing apart my plaster ceiling I absolutely want to get this right the first time.
Just make sure the tops (Front and Rear), fall between the angle measurements as indicated on the side view. My top Rear are in front of my rear surrounds and sound awesome. I'm running 7.1.4
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post #47625 of 55600 Old 01-04-2018, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by DJ Lushious View Post
I've gotten in touch with my handyman about installing four in-ceiling speakers. I've been obsessing over the Dolby Atmos 5.1.4 document and I am totally confused.

In their overhead diagram the TR speakers are behind the surround rears.

Then in their side view the TR speakers are in front of the surround rears.

So, which is the proper way?

In my current 5.2 setup the surrounds are maybe 120-130 degrees behind the sweet spot, aligned with the fronts. Yeah, I have no idea if the TR should go in front of the surrounds, in line with the surrounds, or behind. Before I start tearing apart my plaster ceiling I absolutely want to get this right the first time.
The 4 overheads should be oriented and placed with respect to your main listening position (center of sofa). The surround speakers along the 5.2 base layers can be moved around (within parameters) according to your preference. My surround speakers are located behind my sofa more in line with my TR overheads in my 5.2.4 setup as a result of my room's limitation and sounds fantastic.
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post #47626 of 55600 Old 01-04-2018, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Will setting my amp assignment in my AVR with surround backs, but placing the surround backs at the rear height position completely destroy the atmos sound bubble? I've had it this way for a while, and it sounds good to me, but just wondering if I am perhaps not getting the best sound I could. I have front heights, top rears, and rear heights, but since my SR-6011 AVR can only do 4 height channels, the rear heights are assigned to the AVR as surround backs. Thanks!
Your bed channels should be around ear level. With that AVR I would just do 5.1.4

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post #47627 of 55600 Old 01-04-2018, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Lushious View Post
I've gotten in touch with my handyman about installing four in-ceiling speakers. I've been obsessing over the Dolby Atmos 5.1.4 document and I am totally confused.

In their overhead diagram the TR speakers are behind the surround rears.

Then in their side view the TR speakers are in front of the surround rears.

So, which is the proper way?

In my current 5.2 setup the surrounds are maybe 120-130 degrees behind the sweet spot, aligned with the fronts. Yeah, I have no idea if the TR should go in front of the surrounds, in line with the surrounds, or behind. Before I start tearing apart my plaster ceiling I absolutely want to get this right the first time.


These guidelines are more comprehensive.

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...guidelines.pdf
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post #47628 of 55600 Old 01-04-2018, 10:04 PM
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[quote=Ted99;55430908]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas2 View Post
The upfiring types seem to yield quite mixed results - from good to not good at all - it's the least preferred method, but better than zero. Maybe. I highly recommend becoming familiar with the Dolby documentation on Atmos before you make any decisions:

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...guidelines.pdf

Having used both upfiring and height speakers, I agree that on or at the ceiling is the better solution, if one can do it. BUT, the mixed results from upfiring speakers can mostly be attributed to simple geometry. The most common method for upfiring front speakers is placement on top of towers. Given the usual spec of 30 degrees for the upfiring speaker angle, geometry dictates where the reflected sweet spot will be. In my setup, with 9' ceilings and a 4' high tower, the reflected center spot at a 3' ear height is about 5.5' in front of the towers. If the MLP is a typical 9-10' away from the front towers, the atmos-enabled upfiring speakers are directed to a spot some 4' in front of the MLP--or about shoe level. Even with wide-dispersion speakers, there isn't much of the overhead sound reaching the MLP. On the other hand, if one places the atmos-enabled upfiring speakers on the top of a 24" table (such as the TV stand), the reflected sweet spot is about 7' in front of the speakers. Remember I have a 9' ceiling--if you have an 8' ceiling, these reflected sweet spots are even closer to the front wall and farther from the typical MLP. Another problem with low mounting the atmos-enabled speakers is ear-level leakage of what is supposed to be a sound emanating from the ceiling. My Atlantic Technology atmos-enabled speakers have sound deadening foam in front of the driver to help absorb this. My Pioneer atmos-enabled speakers don't have this, but they have an angle of about 20 degrees of the speaker. Of course, this makes the sweet spot problem even worse. I've concluded that if one cannot or will not move the MLP closer to the display (WAF problems, usually), the most effective use of the atmos-enabled upfiring speakers is for the Top Middle or Top Rear position. This has been discussed a lot in the dolby-enabled upfiring speaker forum. For those of you that thought you would never have a practical use for your High School Geometry class, you were wrong.
I had an issue with my Usher speakers being time aligned, the tweeter is in it's own raised enclosure. I went to the guitar store and bought four 36 inch monitor stands and placed my Marten/Logan Atmos speakers on the stands and I get great height effects. I actually prefer a louder integration of my Atmos channels so, I cranked up the volume a bit on the four Atmos speakers, ran the demo disc and voila! All is well with bouncy bounce Atmos speakers in our cinema.
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post #47629 of 55600 Old 01-05-2018, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick4K View Post

* The question is to choose between Flat/ Reference or the L/R bypass?

Flat is calibrated for small rooms, and speakers at close distance, but does it kill the bass ?
Your thinking about the various Audyssey default options are incorrect. The Audyssey Flat and Reference curves have nothing to do with bass frequencies.. The Reference Curve is optimized for surround movie soundtracks in that it incorporates a slight high frequency rolloff.... which helps with overall sound field room performance ... reflection issues and such which can be a problem in typical home settings. The Flat curve simply eliminates this high frequency rolloff.
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post #47630 of 55600 Old 01-05-2018, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by deano86 View Post
The Flat curve simply eliminates this high frequency rolloff.
It also eliminates the "BBC" mid-frequency dip.
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post #47631 of 55600 Old 01-05-2018, 08:05 AM
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[quote=john barlow;55435504]
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Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
I had an issue with my Usher speakers being time aligned, the tweeter is in it's own raised enclosure. I went to the guitar store and bought four 36 inch monitor stands and placed my Marten/Logan Atmos speakers on the stands and I get great height effects. I actually prefer a louder integration of my Atmos channels so, I cranked up the volume a bit on the four Atmos speakers, ran the demo disc and voila! All is well with bouncy bounce Atmos speakers in our cinema.
separate stands for the upfiring speakers are an excellent way to improve the geometry. The fronts can go where they belong and the upfiring speakers can be moved closer to the MLP and positioned above ear level. If the stands are located by the side walls and the upfiring speakers are toed in to direct the reflected sweet spot to the MLP, the reflection point on the ceiling is very likely to be in line with the Front L and R speakers. That is what the Dolby spec calls for. In fact, if one has Front Wides, their position might be just about exactly where the upfiring speakers should be located. Then, using towers with upfiring modules on top might be the ideal solution for 9.2.4. Carrying this one step farther, think of using identical tower/atmos combo speakers for Front Wide and Side surround or Rear surround. The geometry would likely be excellent.

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Last edited by Ted99; 01-05-2018 at 08:15 AM. Reason: add'l info
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post #47632 of 55600 Old 01-05-2018, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
It also eliminates the "BBC" mid-frequency dip.
Ah yes... forgot about that! My room is pretty well set with acoustic panels, so Flat is the setting for me anyway.
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post #47633 of 55600 Old 01-05-2018, 01:33 PM
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This article refers to upmixing from 5.1 to Atmos with height, etc.:
http://www.klipsch.ca/blog/upmixing-with-dolby-atmos

However, my Onkyo NR646 doesn't seem to automatically do this. Is there a certain listen mode that uses Atmos to upmix?

I generally prefer to just stick to the source format, whatever that is. But I'm just curious.
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post #47634 of 55600 Old 01-05-2018, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ergalthema View Post
This article refers to upmixing from 5.1 to Atmos with height, etc.:
http://www.klipsch.ca/blog/upmixing-with-dolby-atmos

However, my Onkyo NR646 doesn't seem to automatically do this. Is there a certain listen mode that uses Atmos to upmix?

I generally prefer to just stick to the source format, whatever that is. But I'm just curious.
Almost every Yamaha/Denon/Marantz model since 2015 offers some sort of up mix capability with Dolby Surround (aka DSU ) or Neural:X to get 7.1.4
If your AVR has a list of surround decoders or DSP modes at least one of those should appear in the same settings menu.

EDIT, a quick google turned up a list of user listening modes for an Onkyo NR646: You have both Dolby Surround and Neural:X

So maybe its time you opened your users manual ? (or visit a thread for your specific model)

http://www.onkyo.com/manual/txnr646/adv/en/023.html
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post #47635 of 55600 Old 01-05-2018, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
Almost every Yamaha/Denon/Marantz model since 2015 offers some sort of up mix capability with Dolby Surround (aka DSU ) or Neural:X to get 7.1.4
If your AVR has a list of surround decoders or DSP modes at least one of those should appear in the same settings menu.
It has a lot of DSP modes, but I'm not sure which one is part of Atmos.
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post #47636 of 55600 Old 01-05-2018, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ergalthema View Post
It has a lot of DSP modes, but I'm not sure which one is part of Atmos.
There is no such thing as "part of Atmos"

The are two major codec's for 7.1.4 native material

Dolby ATMOS
DTS:X

To UP-Mix other titles that are limited to DD or DTS 2.0,5.1 or 7.1
to play on your upper speakers, you can apply one of two modes:

Dolby's version is called Dolby Surround
DTS's version is called Neural:X
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post #47637 of 55600 Old 01-05-2018, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
There is no such thing as "part of Atmos"

The are two major codec's for 7.1.4 native material

Dolby ATMOS
DTS:X

To UP-Mix other titles that are limited to DD or DTS 2.0,5.1 or 7.1
to play on your upper speakers, you can apply one of two modes:

Dolby's version is called Dolby Surround
DTS's version is called Neural:X
Thanks. If you see the link I posted, it sounds like Atmos is upmixing.
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post #47638 of 55600 Old 01-05-2018, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ergalthema View Post
Thanks. If you see the link I posted, it sounds like Atmos is upmixing.
No, ATMOS is a native 7.1.4 track, That mode is for media encoded with ATMOS only. (AVR should be set to Straight, no post processing)

To replicate/simulate ATMOS overhead effects from a 5.1/7.1 media source you would select "Dolby Surround" (aka DSU or Dolby Surround Upmixer)

DTS:X is a native 7.1.4 track

Many prefer to use Neural:X to simulate DTS:X from a DTS 5.1/7.1 and expand to 7.1.4

Many AVR's will allow you to apply either Dolby Surround upmixer (aka DSU) or Neural:X to any content regardless of source.
Some have a restriction that keeps the upmixer capabilities within the same codec (Dolby=DSU) (DTS=Neural:X)
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post #47639 of 55600 Old 01-05-2018, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
No, ATMOS is a native 7.1.4 track, That mode is for media encoded with ATMOS only.

To replicate/simulate ATMOS overhead effects from a 5.1/7.1 media source you would select "Dolby Surround" (aka DSU or Dolby Surround Upmixer)

DTS:X is a native 7.1.4 track

Many prefer to use Neural:X to simulate DTS:X from a DTS 5.1/7.1 and expand to 7.1.4

Many AVR's will allow you to apply either Dolby Surround upmixer (aka DSU) ot Neural:X to cany content regardless of source.
Some have a restriction that keeps the upmixer capabilities within the same codec (Dolby=DSU) (DTS=Neural:X)
Thanks for the clear answer. I thought that was the case, but the article confused me - especially since it was from Klipsch. These technologies are difficult enough to keep up with, so I get disappointed with misleading info.
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post #47640 of 55600 Old 01-05-2018, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ergalthema View Post
Thanks for the clear answer. I thought that was the case, but the article confused me - especially since it was from Klipsch. These technologies are difficult enough to keep up with, so I get disappointed with misleading info.
You're right - it's a very, very badly written article. Not only does it conflate the Dolby Surround Upmixer (which Dolby Atmos AVRs also have, as an add-on extra), it even makes it worse by using the term "pure" Dolby Atmos - as if "pure" isn't a real word, as if there are two Atmoses, "pure" and "up-mixed". There aren't, as we've said and you now understand. There's Atmos, and then there's everything else.

Thanks for bringing it to our attention

Here's a full list of corrections. From the terrible web page
Quote:
you don’t have to wait to experience the the (SIC) immersive, cinematic sound of Dolby Atmos thanks to “upmixing.”
Wrong, if you're upmixing you will NOT be experiencing the immersive, cinematic sound of Dolby Atmos! You'll be experiencing the (very good) immersive sound of the up-mixer called the Dolby Surround Upmixer.

Quote:
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SURROUND SOUND AND UPMIXED DOLBY ATMOS
There's no such thing. If it's upmixed, it's not Dolby Atmos, by definition.

Just like colourised Laurel and Hardy films were not actually colour. They are black and white, with lots of processing having been done to them, and you are seeing the synthesized results. The only difference is that the DSU processing is done in real time.

Quote:
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN UPMIXING AND “PURE” DOLBY ATMOS
The quotes are wrong. This should read: "THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN UPMIXING, AND DOLBY ATMOS".

Quote:
“Pure" Dolby Atmos is only possible when source material is encoded (mixed and published) in Dolby Atmos technology. If you are looking at a Blu-Ray, it should be clearly labeled with the Dolby Atmos logo on the disc packaging.
With a “pure” Dolby Atmos mix, you are hearing sound exactly as the (human) sound editor intended it.
Quotes wrong again. Remove "Pure" from both sentences.

Quote:
In order to upmix to Dolby Atmos, an algorithm in the receiver determines which sounds go to the Dolby Atmos channels based on frequency and phase correlation. Essentially, upmixing is a synthesized, yet very effective Dolby Atmos experience that draws from the original 5.1/7.1 mix.
False again. Should read: "In order to upmix using the Dolby Surround Upmixer to something which is a bit like but not Dolby Atmos, an algorithm in the receiver determines which sounds go to the HEIGHT channels based on frequency and phase correlation. Essentially, upmixing is a synthesized, yet very effective experience which is like Dolby Atmos but it is not Dolby Atmos, that draws from the original 5.1/7.1 mix.

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