The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 1593 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #47761 of 55029 Old 01-19-2018, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Erod View Post
Blade Runner 2049, thus far, is the standard to meet for Atmos.

And fair warning, your bass management system better be calibrated up to speed for this one. This movie is going to blow a lot of speakers.
As much as I loved the Blade Runner 2049 TrueHD Atmos soundtrack, I believe the TrueHD Atmos soundtrack on the UHD HDR version of Blade Runner (1982) is its equal. I agree, though, that the LFE of this film is incredible. The LFE in the opening scene shook my chair and rattled my plantation shutters. It wasn't quite as ridiculously excessive as the LFE in the opening scene of Edge of Tomorrow but it deserves to be in the conversation. Anyway, it was great fun.
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post #47762 of 55029 Old 01-19-2018, 08:12 AM
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It's not a gimmick as a product. Mixers just aren't using it yet as they could and should.



The upmixing is actually really impactful on regular blurays in the meantime.


You’re surely entitled to your opinion.

But I find it kind of insulting. That we don’t know how we can or should use the format.....

It seems as if your criteria for a successful immersive experience is constant overhead activity (I am making a big assumption here but you keep bringing up the upmixers, which indeed make very constant use of the overheads...)

I’m not going to debate what you like. But you’ve made multiple comments about my community as a whole and our competence.

I offer you an invitation that if you’re ever in LA you come for a mix and see what and how decisions are made on the mixing stage... Atmos offers a lot more than just overheads.

Most users can’t expand their base speaker layout to be greater than the base layer (7.1). This is due to cost, space constraints and available products (only now are we getting 13 channel AVRs and processors....) so the only way to tell that objects are being used is to listen to what coming out of the overheads.

While I understand this is the reality of Atmos at home, I think it’s foolish to use that as a metric for what mixers are doing with the format... as many have stated in the past, everyone benefits from immersive... take a look at the down mixes of theatrically mixed track (The Revenant for example...). Better and more detailed panning is just one benefit.

Just my .02. But since I’m one of the only mixer involved I wanted to chime in
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post #47763 of 55029 Old 01-19-2018, 08:13 AM
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I only have so many places I can cut holes in my ceiling... Lol

As I'm about to embark on the Atmos in-ceiling installation, that's what has me most concerned. If I do all this cutting and get them in there and it sounds like a hot mess.



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For those who choose to install in ceiling speakers, this is probably the most reluctant/fearful task to undertake...due to not understanding how and where to cut, ceiling damage, installing in the wrong location, WAF, etc. etc. In reality, there are easy solutions. First, do your homework and review the 3D speaker/location guidelines (i.e. Dolby Atmos HT Installation Guidelines) so you'll have a basic understanding of the objective. Most importantly, don't let the OCD side of you take over...forget about exactly 45 degrees or 1.5' from this wall. This Atmos stuff is not rocket science...won't sound like a "hot mess" ...is very forgiving...and produces very good results with various room configurations and constraints as proven/evidenced by many members here. When ready to experiment...the question is always how....cut several dozen holes in my ceiling??? Taking a cue from members here...some have constructed a temporary simple framework near the ceiling with the ability to slide attached speakers to different positions. And the following recently came from member @javan robinson

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...l#post55403942

Regarding the actual cutting, if you're uncomfortable using a drywall saw, hire a handyman. Tip: Save the cutouts for possible patching in the future. Also if necessary, YouTube is your friend...excellent instruction for drywall repair...it's really pretty easy for the DIY'er, Bottom line...Just Do It! And of course, if there are specific questions about speaker selection and fishing speaker wire, there are many folks here willing to help. Good luck with your Atmos pursuit...a new dimension of excitement and immersion awaits you!

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post #47764 of 55029 Old 01-19-2018, 08:22 AM
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You’re surely entitled to your opinion.

But I find it kind of insulting. That we don’t know how we can or should use the format.....

It seems as if your criteria for a successful immersive experience is constant overhead activity (I am making a big assumption here but you keep bringing up the upmixers, which indeed make very constant use of the overheads...)

I’m not going to debate what you like. But you’ve made multiple comments about my community as a whole and our competence.

I offer you an invitation that if you’re ever in LA you come for a mix and see what and how decisions are made on the mixing stage... Atmos offers a lot more than just overheads.

Most users can’t expand their base speaker layout to be greater than the base layer (7.1). This is due to cost, space constraints and available products (only now are we getting 13 channel AVRs and processors....) so the only way to tell that objects are being used is to listen to what coming out of the overheads.

While I understand this is the reality of Atmos at home, I think it’s foolish to use that as a metric for what mixers are doing with the format... as many have stated in the past, everyone benefits from immersive... take a look at the down mixes of theatrically mixed track (The Revenant for example...). Better and more detailed panning is just one benefit.

Just my .02. But since I’m one of the only mixer involved I wanted to chime in
No offense to your industry, and I appreciate your response very much. Please let me provide more clarity of my point. I think this is largely a business decision because, as you pointed out, we represent a pretty small sliver of the consumer market at this time.

I'm not referring to overhead sounds, but rather this "object" surround that Atmos promises to be. With three-dimensional sound fields, that assumes that some form of triangulation is possible to place sound within our rooms in a specific location, not just left, right, above, or behind us. I mean a specific sound, such as a whisper that somebody in the front row will hear behind their left shoulder and somebody in the back left row will hear in front of them to their right. Location of sound, not just panning or fullness of sound.

I actually heard some of this in Blade Runner 2049, and that is promising to me. And as I stated earlier, I very much like how upmixing works with standard blu rays to make the sound fuller, particularly the music which is one of my favorite parts of any movie.

I was lazy to use the word "lazy", so my apologies. Perhaps a better term would be "committing the time and resources to implement". Again, these are business decisions, I know, and I hope more consideration is given there. Sound is its own character in any film, no matter what Christopher Nolan thinks.
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post #47765 of 55029 Old 01-19-2018, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Erod View Post
I'm not referring to overhead sounds, but rather this "object" surround that Atmos promises to be. With three-dimensional sound fields, that assumes that some form of triangulation is possible to place sound within our rooms in a specific location, not just left, right, above, or behind us. I mean a specific sound, such as a whisper that somebody in the front row will hear behind their left shoulder and somebody in the back left row will hear in front of them to their right. Location of sound, not just panning or fullness of sound.
When you hear a sound phantom imaging between speakers, how do you know whether it is an audio object or just sound mixed to more than one channel?

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post #47766 of 55029 Old 01-19-2018, 08:33 AM
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Out of curiosity how many of you have back boxes on your in-ceiling atmos speakers? i was talking Bowers & Wilkins yesterday about back boxes for my CCm682 speakers I have four of them. Currently I have R-15 insulation teepeed over the speakers, nothing special. The Tech told me that using back boxes will definitely tighten up the sound because right now my whole ceiling is acting like a back box which is not the best case scenario. I asked about Dynabox which is retrofit but they are not the demotions as the B&W boxes. I was told that the Dynabox would work but the speakers may sound little different because those are not the damsons that B&W require for the speakers. I was also told if I do not want to use the B&W ones I can make my own. Doe anybody have any thoughts on this? It always seems that we try and get every ounce out of our systems to maximize our investment in our systems.
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post #47767 of 55029 Old 01-19-2018, 08:33 AM
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When you hear a sound phantom imaging between speakers, how do you know whether it is an audio object or just sound mixed to more than one channel?
I know the goal often is just mix sound to more channels to provide a fuller sound. Music, wind, rain, etc.

But Atmos, as I understand it, can theoretically play the same sound at different volumes from multiple speakers to triangulate it to a relatively specific place within a sound bubble. This was evident in Blade Runner.

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post #47768 of 55029 Old 01-19-2018, 08:43 AM
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But Atmos, as I understand it, can theoretically play the same sound at different volumes from multiple speakers to triangulate it to a relatively specific place within a sound bubble.
Can the same sound not be mixed at different volumes in multiple channels to achieve the same result? Prior to Atmos, was it not possible to have the same sound come out of more than one speaker?

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post #47769 of 55029 Old 01-19-2018, 08:49 AM
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Can the same sound not be mixed at different volumes in multiple channels to achieve the same result? Prior to Atmos, was it not possible to have the same sound come out of more than one speaker?
Yes it was, but only in one horizontal plane of sound. With Atmos height channels, you can play that sound horizontally as before, but then lift it to a higher point with overhead speakers, too.


I do wonder why they try to represent it with a "bubble" because there aren't any speakers under our feet. Yet, lol.

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post #47770 of 55029 Old 01-19-2018, 09:06 AM
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Yes it was, but only in one horizontal plane of sound. With Atmos height channels, you can play that sound horizontally as before, but then lift it to a higher point with overhead speakers, too.
Earlier you lamented that "mixers just aren't using it [Atmos] yet as they could and should" and clarified that you were "not referring to overhead sounds, but rather this "object" surround that Atmos promises to be." How do you know mixers aren't using objects? What if a soundtrack with almost no height info, like 'American Sniper', has lots of objects in the mix, but almost none happen to be placed in the height layer? So when you complain that mixers aren't using the format as they should, do you mean not enough objects (how can you tell?) or do you really mean not enough sound above you?

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post #47771 of 55029 Old 01-19-2018, 09:28 AM
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Earlier you lamented that "mixers just aren't using it [Atmos] yet as they could and should" and clarified that you were "not referring to overhead sounds, but rather this "object" surround that Atmos promises to be." How do you know mixers aren't using objects? What if a soundtrack with almost no height info, like 'American Sniper', has lots of objects in the mix, but almost none happen to be placed in the height layer? So when you complain that mixers aren't using the format as they should, do you mean not enough objects (how can you tell?) or do you really mean not enough sound above you?

It has nothing to do with sound above us. It's about an entirely new approach to how sound is mixed altogether. Speaker location should virtually disappear as sound is located, not just played.

The general observation about Atmos so far - not from just me, but I would say MOST people - is that it really isn't being strategically implemented in soundtracks with much intent yet. The height channels are used but only really to make the sound "bigger", not object-based so much.


Listen to the Dolby Atmos demo "Amaze". That is what Atmos is capable of from an atmospheric and location standpoint, and most of these movies labeled as "Atmos" sound absolutely nothing like that in terms of detail. Most Atmos movies just do a traditional 5.1 mix with overhead sound to expand music and wind. That's the dumbed-down version of what Atmos can do, and they don't sound any different than the upmixed blu ray movies.


Blade Runner 2049 did a terrific job. The "bubble" was very apparent throughout, and it showed the capabilities that are there. My hope is that as the consumer base and demand increases, it will be a higher priority. The Martian was also subtle, but good. Wonder Woman was lacking. The Revenant wasn't even Atmos, but it sounded more Atmos than most actual Atmos movies.


Content is finally expanding rapidly now, so I suspect the quality of Atmos will to.

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post #47772 of 55029 Old 01-19-2018, 09:47 AM
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Out of curiosity how many of you have back boxes on your in-ceiling atmos speakers? i was talking Bowers & Wilkins yesterday about back boxes for my CCm682 speakers I have four of them. Currently I have R-15 insulation teepeed over the speakers, nothing special. The Tech told me that using back boxes will definitely tighten up the sound because right now my whole ceiling is acting like a back box which is not the best case scenario. I asked about Dynabox which is retrofit but they are not the demotions as the B&W boxes. I was told that the Dynabox would work but the speakers may sound little different because those are not the damsons that B&W require for the speakers. I was also told if I do not want to use the B&W ones I can make my own. Doe anybody have any thoughts on this? It always seems that we try and get every ounce out of our systems to maximize our investment in our systems.
This is an interesting question, but I'm not sure that a back box is necessary (despite any manufacturer's claim). Granted, large drivers may be an issue and that could include your CCm682s, but for most installations I don't think this would be an issue. The point of the insulation is to dampen the rearward sound waves. While it may not be perfect, the intent is to minimize any reverberations in your ceiling. Good in-ceiling speakers should have a solid frame around the drivers -- with the addition of sufficient insulation (at least R-15), the frame should block vibration in the ceiling. The "quote/unquote" 10" RSLs in my setup actually consist of two 4" drivers plus tweeter and with the backside insulation don't cause any significant ceiling vibration.

I would think that with larger physical drivers (approaching true woofers), a back box would help to contain that ceiling vibration, but will it really stop it? Place your hand on any larger bookshelf speaker -- is there vibration? I'm definitely willing to be corrected/informed and this doesn't affect me in my circumstances. As I said, it's an interesting question.
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post #47773 of 55029 Old 01-19-2018, 10:03 AM
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The general observation about Atmos so far - not from just me, but I would say MOST people - is that it really isn't being strategically implemented in soundtracks with much intent yet.
How do "MOST people" know that? It comes back to my earlier question: if you hear a sound floating between speakers, how do you know whether it is an object or not? There has been sound floating between speaker locations since the invention of stereo 80 years ago. The notion that mixers aren't taking advantage of objects is rather presumptuous, as though "MOST people" are able to listen to a soundtrack and tell which sounds are mixed into channels and which are mixed in as objects.
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Speaker location should virtually disappear as sound is located, not just played.
Speaker locations already disappear, otherwise stereophonic reproduction wouldn't have worked for all these decades. Whatever you're finding lacking in Atmos mixes has nothing to do with objects. You gave a good example of this yourself:
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Wonder Woman was lacking. The Revenant wasn't even Atmos, but it sounded more Atmos than most actual Atmos movies.

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post #47774 of 55029 Old 01-19-2018, 10:08 AM
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Out of curiosity how many of you have back boxes on your in-ceiling atmos speakers? i was talking Bowers & Wilkins yesterday about back boxes for my CCm682 speakers I have four of them. Currently I have R-15 insulation teepeed over the speakers, nothing special. The Tech told me that using back boxes will definitely tighten up the sound because right now my whole ceiling is acting like a back box which is not the best case scenario. I asked about Dynabox which is retrofit but they are not the demotions as the B&W boxes. I was told that the Dynabox would work but the speakers may sound little different because those are not the damsons that B&W require for the speakers. I was also told if I do not want to use the B&W ones I can make my own. Doe anybody have any thoughts on this? It always seems that we try and get every ounce out of our systems to maximize our investment in our systems.
I made my own backer boxes for the four Polk Audio 80F/X-RT in-ceiling speakers I have installed to date (I have another pair in reserve). I built the enclosures out of Rigid Foam Insulation Board, which is exceedingly easy to cut to shape and serves dual purpose by shielding the speakers from both heat and dust or debris in the attic space overhead. This was a cheap and simple solution that has worked for me.
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post #47775 of 55029 Old 01-19-2018, 10:16 AM
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I made my own backer boxes for the four Polk Audio 80F/X-RT in-ceiling speakers I have installed to date (I have another pair in reserve). I built the enclosures out of Rigid Foam Insulation Board, which is exceedingly easy to cut to shape and serves dual purpose by shielding the speakers from both heat and dust or debris in the attic space overhead. This was a cheap and simple solution that has worked for me.
Nice I like your solution! Did you do a DIY thread to show people how you did? Looks like something that may fit the need Io am looking for.
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post #47776 of 55029 Old 01-19-2018, 10:20 AM
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Nice I like your solution! Did you do a DIY thread to show people how you did? Looks like something that may fit the need Io am looking for.
An effective cheap way to do this is to use the actual boxes the speakers came in to cover them, then spread loose insulation over the boxes.
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post #47777 of 55029 Old 01-19-2018, 10:21 AM
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This is an interesting question, but I'm not sure that a back box is necessary (despite any manufacturer's claim). Granted, large drivers may be an issue and that could include your CCm682s, but for most installations I don't think this would be an issue. The point of the insulation is to dampen the rearward sound waves. While it may not be perfect, the intent is to minimize any reverberations in your ceiling. Good in-ceiling speakers should have a solid frame around the drivers -- with the addition of sufficient insulation (at least R-15), the frame should block vibration in the ceiling. The "quote/unquote" 10" RSLs in my setup actually consist of two 4" drivers plus tweeter and with the backside insulation don't cause any significant ceiling vibration.



I would think that with larger physical drivers (approaching true woofers), a back box would help to contain that ceiling vibration, but will it really stop it? Place your hand on any larger bookshelf speaker -- is there vibration? I'm definitely willing to be corrected/informed and this doesn't affect me in my circumstances. As I said, it's an interesting question.

If your in ceiling are located in drywall then effectively they are a IB configuration.
Some are ok if designed that way, some not.

My inceiling were worse, located on absorbent ceiling tiles. I was getting phase cancellation from that.
I did a little DIY, there even was a suggest backer box min cu ft spec for mine, I went slightly larger than that, added cross braces.
Definitely sounds clearer and helped lessen the sound transmission upstairs .






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post #47778 of 55029 Old 01-19-2018, 10:45 AM
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Out of curiosity how many of you have back boxes on your in-ceiling atmos speakers?
I currently do not...like yourself, my speakers are surrounded by R-15 to limit sound/vibration to the floor above and surrounding areas...no issue whatsoever with sound leakage to other areas.

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This is an interesting question, but I'm not sure that a back box is necessary (despite any manufacturer's claim).
I'm in agreement with richlife for the most part. My overall position is...it depends...it depends on (1) what is above (2) ceiling type and (3) what you listen to with the ceiling speakers. Those with living spaces above that would be adversely affected by sound leakage may want an enclosure to better/help/reduce/contain sound transmission. Those with suspended ceilings may need backer boxes to eliminate undesirable vibration. For those whose use is primarily movie Atmos sound effects, I don't feel it's necessary to "tighten up the sound" for wind, rain, birds, etc...IB works just fine. If however, one uses these overhead speakers predominantly for music, perhaps an enclosure will add value. If and when, Atmos music content becomes more mainstream, I may rethink this position and retrofit some inexpensive backer boxes...but for the present...not necessary. YMMV
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post #47779 of 55029 Old 01-19-2018, 10:52 AM
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Nice I like your solution! Did you do a DIY thread to show people how you did? Looks like something that may fit the need Io am looking for.
IMHO this is so simple, there's no need for instruction. Just take some measurements (allowing for ample clearance in all directions), cut to size (mitered edges is a nice touch, but not necessary), and tape the sides together using vent tape or similar product. Easy-peasy lemon squeezy.

Or you can take on a more elaborate project à la mtbdudex above depending on your needs and skill set (or motivation).
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post #47780 of 55029 Old 01-19-2018, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by chi_guy50 View Post
IMHO this is so simple, there's no need for instruction. Just take some measurements (allowing for ample clearance in all directions), cut to size (mitered edges is a nice touch, but not necessary), and tape the sides together using vent tape or similar product. Easy-peasy lemon squeezy.

Or you can take on a more elaborate project à la mtbdudex above depending on your needs and skill set (or motivation).
Is the material flexible enough to get up a the hole I have cut already for the 8" speaker? I can then put together in the ceiling without chopping up the ceiling again with vent tape.
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post #47781 of 55029 Old 01-19-2018, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
If your in ceiling are located in drywall then effectively they are a IB configuration.
Some are ok if designed that way, some not.

My inceiling were worse, located on absorbent ceiling tiles. I was getting phase cancellation from that.
I did a little DIY, there even was a suggest backer box min cu ft spec for mine, I went slightly larger than that, added cross braces.
Definitely sounds clearer and helped lessen the sound transmission upstairs .






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Wow those are serious you are not messing around, nice job.
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post #47782 of 55029 Old 01-19-2018, 11:04 AM
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Is the material flexible enough to get up a the hole I have cut already for the 8" speaker? I can then put together in the ceiling without chopping up the ceiling again with vent tape.
Nope, hence the nomenclature "rigid foam."

Again, it all depends on your needs. In my case, I was working with an attic space; your application appears to be quite different and might require a somewhat different approach.

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post #47783 of 55029 Old 01-19-2018, 11:06 AM
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Is the material flexible enough to get up a the hole I have cut already for the 8" speaker? I can then put together in the ceiling without chopping up the ceiling again with vent tape.
If your only concern is speaker protection from dust & debris, this has been a popular solution...no issue with retro fitting or extra cutting of drywall necessary.

https://www.amazon.com/OEM-Systems-I...=speaker+cover

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post #47784 of 55029 Old 01-19-2018, 11:11 AM
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Before pulling the trigger and through $2100 on Atmos upgrade in my living room, I'm going to try today Atmos in my bedroom (5.1.2) with a pair of SVS Prime Elevation that are "Out for delivery. I'm planning to set those as FH to see if I get good results. My receiver is a Marantz NR1606. I have a question: can I use the Prime Elevation speakers as Atmos add ON speakers as well?

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post #47785 of 55029 Old 01-19-2018, 11:16 AM
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Before pulling the trigger and through $2100 on Atmos upgrade in my living room, I'm going to try today Atmos in my bedroom (5.1.2) with a pair of SVS Prime Elevation that are "Out for delivery. I'm planning to set those as FH to see if I get good results. My receiver is a Marantz NR1606. I have a question: can I use the Prime Elevation speakers as Atmos add ON speakers as well?


Yes Enrico, they would work fine as Add on as well but probably the effect not as good as in ceiling or on wall.


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post #47786 of 55029 Old 01-19-2018, 12:27 PM
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Out of curiosity how many of you have back boxes on your in-ceiling atmos speakers? i was talking Bowers & Wilkins yesterday about back boxes for my CCm682 speakers I have four of them. Currently I have R-15 insulation teepeed over the speakers, nothing special. The Tech told me that using back boxes will definitely tighten up the sound because right now my whole ceiling is acting like a back box which is not the best case scenario. I asked about Dynabox which is retrofit but they are not the demotions as the B&W boxes. I was told that the Dynabox would work but the speakers may sound little different because those are not the damsons that B&W require for the speakers. I was also told if I do not want to use the B&W ones I can make my own. Doe anybody have any thoughts on this? It always seems that we try and get every ounce out of our systems to maximize our investment in our systems.


In my experience you will get the best performance with boxes. Speakers are engineered to perform with certain placement specifications hence in wall, on wall, etc. I’m of the opinion that it’s ideal to use the BfW boxes if possible. But definitely boxes. Compromises abound in our hobby and i choose to make as few as possible. Enough small ones eventually will really alter the performance of your system which also includes the “room” as part of the equation. No doubt there will be varying opinions and rationalizations to arrive at desired conclusions but i always start with trying to stay with specs/ mfr suggestions.
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post #47787 of 55029 Old 01-19-2018, 12:46 PM
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In my experience you will get the best performance with boxes. Speakers are engineered to perform with certain placement specifications hence in wall, on wall, etc. I’m of the opinion that it’s ideal to use the BfW boxes if possible. But definitely boxes. Compromises abound in our hobby and i choose to make as few as possible. Enough small ones eventually will really alter the performance of your system which also includes the “room” as part of the equation. No doubt there will be varying opinions and rationalizations to arrive at desired conclusions but i always start with trying to stay with specs/ mfr suggestions.
That is exactly what Bowers & Wilkins said. They did not say I had to use their box but a box with the same exact dimensions if I want the speakers to play and sound like they are intended to do. I spent close to $3000 on 4 speakers with Tax, $600 per speaker before tax. I was told boxes in general would help with making the speakers sound more dynamic. If you think about the purpose of Atmos speakers that is exactly what they are dynamic sound effects. I have read post after post that some think Atmos speakers are not all that and a bag of chips. this is what me think if the speakers are not being installed 100% according to specs could be the reason why some people do not experience the wow factor. Just a thought and why i asked. I may bite the bullet and tear up the ceiling and do it the right way. patching big holes are not hard to do it is small ones that hard, at least for me.
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post #47788 of 55029 Old 01-19-2018, 12:54 PM
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Has anyone watched Godless on Netflix in Atmos yet? The series itself is amazing, but the Atmos presentation is one of the best I've heard, especially for a TV show. So many scenes stand out in my mind - bees buzzing around, horses thundering by, bassy and powerful storms... so much activity in the overheads. I looked forward to the scenes in Alice's barn especially, since the wind was always whipping around outside and blowing through the cracks in the wood. You can clearly hear the wind whirling in a circle around and above the listening position, very cool effect. Highly recommended!
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post #47789 of 55029 Old 01-19-2018, 12:56 PM
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I prob should have been more clear, that capture is an analysis strait from the disk and not played back through any gear.

...On the audio side though I could definitely hear some clipping on several occasions, especially in the center channel. ...
If you are experiencing clipping I'd look down my audio chain as you should not hear any clipping from Dunkirk. It may be those Class D Crown amps, I'm not sure. But, again, you should not hear clipping in any channel.
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post #47790 of 55029 Old 01-19-2018, 01:06 PM
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You’re surely entitled to your opinion.

But I find it kind of insulting. That we don’t know how we can or should use the format.....

It seems as if your criteria for a successful immersive experience is constant overhead activity (I am making a big assumption here but you keep bringing up the upmixers, which indeed make very constant use of the overheads...)

I’m not going to debate what you like. But you’ve made multiple comments about my community as a whole and our competence.

I offer you an invitation that if you’re ever in LA you come for a mix and see what and how decisions are made on the mixing stage... Atmos offers a lot more than just overheads.

Most users can’t expand their base speaker layout to be greater than the base layer (7.1). This is due to cost, space constraints and available products (only now are we getting 13 channel AVRs and processors....) so the only way to tell that objects are being used is to listen to what coming out of the overheads.

While I understand this is the reality of Atmos at home, I think it’s foolish to use that as a metric for what mixers are doing with the format... as many have stated in the past, everyone benefits from immersive... take a look at the down mixes of theatrically mixed track (The Revenant for example...). Better and more detailed panning is just one benefit.

Just my .02. But since I’m one of the only mixer involved I wanted to chime in
I personally think that you and other mixers are doing the best you can with the film material you are working with. But, the reality is that human beings don't hear in real life, "object base." On a given day, ask yourself how often you hear object base? Reality does not lend itself to object base which is why most folks seem underwhelmed with Atmos. Its not your fault. Dolby gave you a new codec and you are trying to do the best you can with it. Thats how I see it.
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