The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 1606 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #48151 of 54994 Old 02-09-2018, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post
I'm largely in agreement with PioManiac...

I also have three UHD players and from a pure image perspective, one would be hard pressed to say that image quality varies dramatically...4K and upscaled 4K just looks good period. The differences are in the feature sets, speed of operation, support capability, and perceived build quality. The Panny DMP-UB900, however, does have one nice feature called the "Dynamic Range Slider" that can simply and easily adjust brightness for HDR content...particularly useful for projector owners. Otherwise, feature needs, personal preferences, and budget would be the determining factors.
Thanks. I own an Oppo 103 mostly because I play SACD's and DVD-A's as well as BD's. Will probably go with the 203 when I upgrade to 4K.
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post #48152 of 54994 Old 02-09-2018, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post
If your side walls are both on the same distance to the RS-7, this should word fine.
I like the "bounce" effect as it give the impression that the speakers are in the surround spot, even they are on the back wall like mine Dipoles.
If I mount the RS-7 directly above the fronts the left RS will be about 1.5 ft from the side wall and the right one will be about 3-3.5 ft from the right wall. Due to the sub and furniture placement I can't move my fronts neither left or right. My main listening position is off center, so fronts and TV are off set to the left. Should I mount the left RS lets say 2-2.5 ft from the side wall to equalize the left-to-right distance a bit or they have to be exactly at the same distance from the side wall?

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Originally Posted by pasender91 View Post
Hi,

R-15m definitely.

To explain why, let me just copy below a short extract from Dolby Atmos installation guide ...
"Dipole surround speakers are not recommended for use for Dolby Atmos playback."
I've seen it, but the RS-7 are neither dipoles or bipoles, they are WDST (Wide Dispersion Surround Technology) hybrids, all drivers fire at the same time, like a bipole, but they are designed to give a more diffuse sound, like a dipole.

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post #48153 of 54994 Old 02-09-2018, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by dimanata2007 View Post
If I mount the RS-7 directly above the fronts the left RS will be about 1.5 ft from the side wall and the right one will be about 3-3.5 ft from the right wall. Due to the sub and furniture placement I can't move my fronts neither left or right. My main listening position is off center, so fronts and TV are off set to the left. Should I mount the left RS lets say 2-2.5 ft from the side wall to equalize the left-to-right distance a bit or they have to be exactly at the same distance from the side wall?.

You can try, think Audyssye will take care of the tiny differents in distance, the same distance would be perfect but think you are ok.........
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post #48154 of 54994 Old 02-09-2018, 12:16 PM
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I watched Zero Dark Thirty in 4k/Atmos last night. I really like the opening with the black screen and just multiple audio news feeds about the attacks unfolding with the events and playing over each other. In Atmos, they all came from different places and it really added an element of organized chaos to the opening. I loved what Atmos did for that opening scene.
The integration scenes are amazing as well, I thought the chains were coming out of the ceiling.

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post #48155 of 54994 Old 02-09-2018, 01:05 PM
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so I finally caved in and bought an atmos receiver and some in ceiling speakers and cant wait to try them out !

Thing is that my current location for the theatre area is temporary and I don't want to put holes in the ceiling but really want to try out atmos so I can be rest assured that I will like it and keep the receiver and speakers.

Is there a somewhat easy way to secure speakers on/close to the ceiling that is temporary and non invasive to the ceiling ?

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post #48156 of 54994 Old 02-09-2018, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by dchabby View Post
so I finally caved in and bought an atmos receiver and some in ceiling speakers and cant wait to try them out !

Thing is that my current location for the theatre area is temporary and I don't want to put holes in the ceiling but really want to try out atmos so I can be rest assured that I will like it and keep the receiver and speakers.

Is there a somewhat easy way to secure speakers on/close to the ceiling that is temporary and non invasive to the ceiling ?

Speakers are Polk RC60i if that matters - https://www.amazon.ca/Polk-Audio-RC6...70_&dpSrc=srch
Your question comes up fairly often. Some members have constructed simple to elaborate frames (using 2x2's, 2x4's, metal channels, ladder supports, etc.) near their ceilings with the ability to slide speakers along the frames. However, a very simple and least expensive method was posted by @javan robinson last December...cost = pizza and beer

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...l#post55403942
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post #48157 of 54994 Old 02-09-2018, 03:47 PM
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I am finally doing the Atmos upgrade. I am installing 2 Katherine Egglestonworks in-wall/on-wall speakers on the rear portion of angled cathedral sloping ceiling.

*Note that 2 more Katherine Atmos speakers will be mounted high up above the screen on the wall angled down at the listener.

They will be installed at the approx location where the tweeter points to the listener’s head when reclined.

*Do you think the speakers should be mounted higher on the angled ceiling, closer to being above the listener (a foot or so behind the listener)?
As for speaker positions, I would suggest finding the ideal positions, then see if those work or conflict with the physical room.

Project the locations from the listener's head (reclining if that's the normal condition). From that position, find the compass headings for ±45° and ±135°. From each heading, look at an elevation of 45°. Put your laser pointer in a swivel-head tripod. Can the speakers be mounted anywhere near those locations? If so, that's a good start.

As for aiming, I am of the school that speakers should aim at the listeners. In your case, if the dispersion is particularly wide, that reduces this concern. In addition, if there's only one listening position (??) then the off-axis issues of response or level rolloff are less of an issue, no one is there. And finally, the room EQ will help compensate for issues like off-axis rolloff and even some cavity resonance that is not tamed by stuffing absorption around the speaker's cabinet.
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post #48158 of 54994 Old 02-09-2018, 03:58 PM
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I ran audyssey today on my denon x3300. For the overhead speakers, I?m using svs prime elevation. Do people normally add a little extra to the overhead to really bring them out? Maybe up the audyssey output by 3dB?
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post #48159 of 54994 Old 02-09-2018, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by guitarguy316 View Post
I ran audyssey today on my denon x3300. For the overhead speakers, I?m using svs prime elevation. Do people normally add a little extra to the overhead to really bring them out? Maybe up the audyssey output by 3dB?
I used to religiously boost my surrounds two to three DB. Cuz I like the effect. And then I did that with my Atmos ceiling speakers too.

But now I don't. Mainly because with the Atmos, boosting the the levels would change where the sound comes from in terms of height above me according to the feedback I received here.

I am very happy with the atmos effects I'm getting now.... And all of the speakers are calibrated for the same DB at the listening position.

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post #48160 of 54994 Old 02-09-2018, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by guitarguy316 View Post
I ran audyssey today on my denon x3300. For the overhead speakers, I?m using svs prime elevation. Do people normally add a little extra to the overhead to really bring them out? Maybe up the audyssey output by 3dB?
I boost my height channels trim for a couple of reasons:
  • They are the least capable speakers in my setup
  • They aren't pointed directly at the MLP, so they're not providing ideal on-axis response
  • I use Dynamic EQ regularly, which boosts LFE and surround channel content at volumes below reference, but it doesn't increase levels of the overhead channels.
  • Dolby Surround Upmixer tends to be quite subtle when it comes to overhead channel utilization.
  • My surrounds are mounted at standing ear height, instead of being lower (closer to seated ear height), as recommended for an Atmos configuration. So increasing the overhead trim helps with creating artificial separation.
  • I simply like it better that way
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post #48161 of 54994 Old 02-09-2018, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
As for speaker positions, I would suggest finding the ideal positions, then see if those work or conflict with the physical room.

Project the locations from the listener's head (reclining if that's the normal condition). From that position, find the compass headings for ±45° and ±135°. From each heading, look at an elevation of 45°. Put your laser pointer in a swivel-head tripod. Can the speakers be mounted anywhere near those locations? If so, that's a good start.

As for aiming, I am of the school that speakers should aim at the listeners. In your case, if the dispersion is particularly wide, that reduces this concern. In addition, if there's only one listening position (??) then the off-axis issues of response or level rolloff are less of an issue, no one is there. And finally, the room EQ will help compensate for issues like off-axis rolloff and even some cavity resonance that is not tamed by stuffing absorption around the speaker's cabinet.
Hello Roger, Thanks for the response. Due to the 3 different intersecting flat angled planes of the ceiling, there is very few spaces where the speakers can be mounted up front. Last time I measured, I recall the available location was about 35 degrees from the listener’s reclined position. So about 10 degrees off/less than ideal, but the speakers are very high up and with a good tilt down, they may sound very good (I would think). They do need to be closer than the spec specifies though. Only about 4’ will separate the 2 Katherine cabinets that are installed on their side. I will map things out with the laser one more time before holes are cut into the ceiling, but again, that can only help so much due to the constraints of the room

As far as the rear Atmos speakers go, if I mounted them at the text book 145 degrees, they would be 1) too low due to the sloping downward ceiling and 2) getting too close to the back surrounds that are only a few feet away. Due to the sloped ceiling angle, the tweeters may be aimed too low if installed at the 145 degree location. This is why I was thinking of cheating them forward a bit, to about 130 degrees, which will get the speakers away from the back surrounds, make them higher up on the ceiling, and bring the tweeter trajectory towards the listener. I think if I move them further forward and more overhead, I may be getting too far out of spec.

There is only one large curved row of 4 chairs with wedges, so the chairs span across maybe 13’ or so. So there are 4 listening positions. So I was thinking of mounting them a bit further apart than the front Atmos speakers, which will help compensate for the narrower Atmos sound field up front.

Last edited by G-Rex; 02-09-2018 at 09:04 PM.
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post #48162 of 54994 Old 02-09-2018, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post
Hello Roger, Thanks for the response. Due to the 3 different intersecting flat angled planes of the ceiling, there is very few spaces where the speakers can be mounted up front. Last time I measured, I recall the available location was about 35 degrees from the listener’s reclined position. So about 10 degrees off/less than ideal, but the speakers are very high up and with a good tilt down, they may sound very good (I would think).
I agree. 35 degrees is more than enough to perceive a distinct height effect.

Quote:
As far as the rear Atmos speakers go, if I mounted them at the text book 145 degrees, they would be 1) too low due to the sloping downward ceiling and 2) getting too close to the back surrounds that are only a few feet away. Due to the sloped ceiling angle, the tweeters may be aimed too low if installed at the 145 degree location. This is why I was thinking of cheating them forward a bit, to about 130 degrees, which will get the speakers away from the back surrounds, make them higher up on the ceiling, and bring the tweeter trajectory towards the listener. I think if I move them further forward and more overhead, I may be getting too far out of spec.
Actually, IMHO, 130 is closer to my goal than 145 (I suggested 135), so 130 is great.

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There is only one large curved row of 4 chairs with wedges, so the chairs span across maybe 13’ or so. So there are 4 listening positions. So I was thinking of mounting them a bit further apart than the front Atmos speakers, which will help compensate for the narrower Atmos sound field up front.
Further apart is not a problem. No matter where the speaker is, it will be difficult to localize once the show starts. Keeping them distinct from the other surrounds is the main point.

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post #48163 of 54994 Old 02-09-2018, 11:24 PM
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Not to go too far off topic but is that shot of the speaker on the wall in your room? I like what you are doing with the records as art. Do you have a build thread you could link or share any more photos? I would love to see more of the room.


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Hi, here is my setup, i do use Auro 3D for 95% of Music, TV and 100% for movies, and thats Auro 3D with VOG.
The VOG speakers are KEF T101, the other speakers and Subwoofer are all the Magnat Cinema Ultra THX serie.
The receiver is a Denon X6400H.


Sorry to mention Auro in this Atmos forum.......
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post #48164 of 54994 Old 02-10-2018, 12:50 AM
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Hi, here is my setup, i do use Auro 3D for 95% of Music, TV and 100% for movies, and thats Auro 3D with VOG.
The VOG speakers are KEF T101, the other speakers and Subwoofer are all the Magnat Cinema Ultra THX serie.
The receiver is a Denon X6400H.


Sorry to mention Auro in this Atmos forum.......
Nice setup but I think you needs a bigger, brighter clock.
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post #48165 of 54994 Old 02-10-2018, 12:53 AM
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nice setup but i think you needs a bigger, brighter clock.
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post #48166 of 54994 Old 02-10-2018, 05:21 AM
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I agree. 35 degrees is more than enough to perceive a distinct height effect.

Actually, IMHO, 130 is closer to my goal than 145 (I suggested 135), so 130 is great.

Further apart is not a problem. No matter where the speaker is, it will be difficult to localize once the show starts. Keeping them distinct from the other surrounds is the main point.
Good to hear that the front Atmos speakers will be perceived as a height channel, due to their angle and height. In a reclined position on the 15” riser, the front Atmos speakers are still 8’ above the listener and 15’ away. So not a bad angle to perceive height.

I was typing late and made a bit of a miscalculation re the 130 deg back position. That is getting me too close to the back surrounds, which as you mentioned, is critical. Maybe I should cheat the angle up a bit to ensure speaker separation with the surrounds. 100 deg is almost over head (12” behind the listener), 110 deg is about 24” behind) 120 deg is about 24” behind. 130 deg is getting too close to the back surrounds due to the angled ceiling lowering them as the go back into the room.

The higher the speakers are on the ceiling, the more likely I will need to position them with a slight downward tilt in the box. The mid/woofer interaction with the acoustic foam lined cabinet shouldnt be too big a concern. At 100 deg or so I would need to tilt them, and as I get closer 115 or 120 degrees I would not.

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post #48167 of 54994 Old 02-10-2018, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tezster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarguy316 View Post
I ran audyssey today on my denon x3300. For the overhead speakers, I?m using svs prime elevation. Do people normally add a little extra to the overhead to really bring them out? Maybe up the audyssey output by 3dB?
I boost my height channels trim for a couple of reasons:
  • They are the least capable speakers in my setup
  • They aren't pointed directly at the MLP, so they're not providing ideal on-axis response
  • I use Dynamic EQ regularly, which boosts LFE and surround channel content at volumes below reference, but it doesn't increase levels of the overhead channels.
  • Dolby Surround Upmixer tends to be quite subtle when it comes to overhead channel utilization.
  • My surrounds are mounted at standing ear height, instead of being lower (closer to seated ear height), as recommended for an Atmos configuration. So increasing the overhead trim helps with creating artificial separation.
  • I simply like it better that way
What?s a good start at boosting based on my results? Add +3dB to each?
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post #48168 of 54994 Old 02-10-2018, 07:54 AM
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Nice setup but I think you needs a bigger, brighter clock.
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post #48169 of 54994 Old 02-10-2018, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post
Hi, here is my setup, i do use Auro 3D for 95% of Music, TV and 100% for movies, and thats Auro 3D with VOG.
The VOG speakers are KEF T101, the other speakers and Subwoofer are all the Magnat Cinema Ultra THX serie.
The receiver is a Denon X6400H.


Sorry to mention Auro in this Atmos forum.......


Thanks for posting the pictures! I think the wall of album art looks really good and makes a really interesting accent wall. To me the return of big album art is the best part of the vinyl resurgence. I have read that Auro is the best of the upmixers for music but I have yet to experience it for myself. I guess you are in Europe? I think Auro is much more popular over there than here in the US as I don’t know anyone with a proper Auro setup. Thanks for sharing!


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post #48170 of 54994 Old 02-10-2018, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by usc1995 View Post
Thanks for posting the pictures! I think the wall of album art looks really good and makes a really interesting accent wall. To me the return of big album art is the best part of the vinyl resurgence. I have read that Auro is the best of the upmixers for music but I have yet to experience it for myself. I guess you are in Europe? I think Auro is much more popular over there than here in the US as I don’t know anyone with a proper Auro setup. Thanks for sharing!


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Indeed Auro is relative popular in Europ, problem is content but Auro-Matic compensates for the lack of content.
I play all my movies with Auro-Matic, Atmos, DD, DTS, DTSX.
The problem i have with Auro and Stereo (music) is that Auro 2 and 3D puts to much signal to the Fronts L/R.
For Music ok, but for Stereo TV channels its not nice, talk is coming from L/R instade the Center, i use DSU for TV stereo channels, but then no VOG.
Also Auro 3D laks Surround Back because for 99% Auro receivers Auro 10.1 is used, Auro 13.1 has Surround Back but there is only one Denon receiver at the moment with Auro 13.1, and thats the expecive X8500H.
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post #48171 of 54994 Old 02-10-2018, 12:36 PM
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I decided to hook up all of my speakers at this point in time to figure out final positions. I also discovered I had two wires labeled the same so I fixed that. I brought in two of the seats so I could test the riser height as well as front to back seating positions.

I decided that I needed to raise the rear back surrounds a bit because they were being blocked by the rear seats. I've never had two rows before, so it's an interesting challenge figuring out where the speakers need to be to best cover both. I also decided to move the surround L/R speakers towards the rear just a little to provide better imaging to the rear row.



The overhead load bearing beam and support post will be removed as they have been relocated to the front wall. Ignore the small speakers above the L/R - they were temporary until I brought out the real L/R.

I am really happy overall at this point. Even with no carpet, room treatments, or finished walls, it's sounding really good after a little Audyssey magic.



And also, Hans Zimmer: Live in Prague really is pretty special. I'm a big fan of his work so I picked this up when it was mentioned earlier in this thread. It's the first thing I demod when I got everything functional. It sounds really, really good.
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Last edited by stikle; 02-10-2018 at 12:42 PM.
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post #48172 of 54994 Old 02-10-2018, 05:30 PM
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While a borderline horror/thriller movie..........the surround/upmixing for ceiling/surrounds is outstanding.


This takes place under ground and the use of surrounds and the ceiling speakers is over the top, best upmixed sound I have ever heard.....the ceiling speakers and surrounds are very active.


This was watched on DVD, if you have this title or see it cheap, it well worth it for the sound...it is over the top for sure.

Link to Stereo Integrity SI HT 18 sub build......https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-pedestal.html
Speakers and subs for sale...https://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...kers-subs.html
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post #48173 of 54994 Old 02-10-2018, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javan robinson View Post
Glad to know that I'm not the only one!



And yeah, it has to be something with the amount of data that's being streamed during 4k/HDR/Atmos titles, right? That can't be healthy! lol (easy)


So today I was watching Altered Carbon episode 3 and there were lots of pops and clicks to the point it was very distracting. I changed the audio stream from Dolby Atmos to the regular English audio stream and the pops and clicks went away. If I changed it back to Atmos then the pops and clicks returned. I exited out of the Netflix app by starting the Amazon app and then returned to the Netflix app to try again. This time there were no pops and clicks and I could watch the episode fine. There definitely some issue with the Netflix Atmos streams that is not there with their other content.


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post #48174 of 54994 Old 02-11-2018, 01:07 AM
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I've never noticed pops and clicks during a movie or show, although I usually listen at -10 or above......weird.

Why waste $ on more cheap stuff, it's like challenging a dragon with a pocket knife.
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post #48175 of 54994 Old 02-11-2018, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by stikle View Post



I decided to hook up all of my speakers at this point in time to figure out final positions. I also discovered I had two wires labeled the same so I fixed that. I brought in two of the seats so I could test the riser height as well as front to back seating positions.

I decided that I needed to raise the rear back surrounds a bit because they were being blocked by the rear seats. I've never had two rows before, so it's an interesting challenge figuring out where the speakers need to be to best cover both. I also decided to move the surround L/R speakers towards the rear just a little to provide better imaging to the rear row.

Spoiler!


The overhead load bearing beam and support post will be removed as they have been relocated to the front wall. Ignore the small speakers above the L/R - they were temporary until I brought out the real L/R.

I am really happy overall at this point. Even with no carpet, room treatments, or finished walls, it's sounding really good after a little Audyssey magic.
Spoiler!

And also, Hans Zimmer: Live in Prague really is pretty special. I'm a big fan of his work so I picked this up when it was mentioned earlier in this thread. It's the first thing I demod when I got everything functional. It sounds really, really good.
Good Job on NOT putting a projector and temporary screen up,
that has been proven to stall room progress significantly if you're not careful.

10 Years and counting for me
(I still have open exposed TJI floor joists for a ceiling in my basement cave)

Turned out alright for me though because I upgraded from my original 7.1 HD HDMI 1.3 to 7.4.4 4K/UHD HDMI 2.0a/HDCP 2.2
and I have a feeling that 7.1.6 ATMOS is just around the corner now (and HDMI 2.1)

You may want to pre-wire for 6 ceiling speakers if you haven't already.


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post #48176 of 54994 Old 02-11-2018, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
Good Job on NOT putting a projector and temporary screen up,
that has been proven to stall room progress significantly if you're not careful.

10 Years and counting for me
(I still have open exposed TJI floor joists for a ceiling in my basement cave)
OMG, I hate seeing this. I broke down and dropped an OLED and an Ascend/Rythmik 5.1.4 Atmos system in my living room mid-basement-build. Now my basement is just sitting there now with T&G exposed and a new JVC PJ and new 11 channel receiver sitting in a box growing old and obsolete. At least I got the electrical sub panel in and the mini-split installed. I need to call my buddy to get the rest of the wiring done so we can get the sheet rockers out.

Damn, now I am depressed.
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post #48177 of 54994 Old 02-11-2018, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
Good Job on NOT putting a projector and temporary screen up,
that has been proven to stall room progress significantly if you're not careful.

10 Years and counting for me
(I still have open exposed TJI floor joists for a ceiling in my basement cave)
Wow, you are so right about that! The problem for me is that it's my living room, so life has to continue in the room whilst things are, erm, "in progress".

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HDMI 2.0 4K modes | Dolby & DTS core+outer audio tracks on (UHD) Blu-Rays | Hello to Jason Isaacs
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post #48178 of 54994 Old 02-11-2018, 09:42 AM
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Why does my DENON AVR-X8500H display "Dolby Surround" instead of "Dolby Atmos" while watching Netflix ATMOS content like "Altered Carbon" on my XboxOne S, even though it clearly sounds like its playing in Atmos mode?
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post #48179 of 54994 Old 02-11-2018, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Warbird7 View Post
Why does my DENON AVR-X8500H display "Dolby Surround" instead of "Dolby Atmos" while watching Netflix ATMOS content like "Altered Carbon" on my XboxOne S, even though it clearly sounds like its playing in Atmos mode?
Did you download the Atmos App on the XBOXOne S? The Denon might be upmixing to simulated Atmos.
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post #48180 of 54994 Old 02-11-2018, 10:01 AM
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Did you download the Atmos App on the XBOXOne S? The Denon might be upmixing to simulated Atmos.
My Yamaha displays ATMOS on my the front panel during Netflix ATMOS titles through my XBO X
regardless of whether the audio is set to "Straight" or having "Dolby Surround" upmix engaged.

...So I tend to leave it on Dolby Surround so any non ATMOS content automatically gets played on all speakers.
Kind of a one-size-fits-all set it and forget it solution.


I've posted screen shots of all the XBO ATMOS settings for Netflix and Disc playback in this thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/141-xb...l#post55557274



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The Unfinished Basement Theater & Whisky Guitar Lounge | Bass EQ for Filtered Movies
JVC DLA X750 4K Projector | 120" Powered Drop Screen | 65" LG 65B6P OLED | Panasonic DMP UB900 | Oppo UDP 203 | HDFury Vertex
Yamaha RX-A3070 | 7.4.4.4 | Mission M3i x11 | Funk Audio 18.0 x2 | Velodyne DLS 5000R x2 | Crowson LvL3 MA x4 | miniDSP 2x4HD
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