The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 1617 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #48481 of 56641 Old 03-05-2018, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Would you be likewise disappointed if a black & white movie won best cinematography?
If the gray scale has high dynamic range, no problem. 8 bit with banding, not so much.

(Edit: Actually, I did like the cinematography of Sin City, and that was approx. 2 bit gray scale depth. So, there are exceptions, and it depends.)
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post #48482 of 56641 Old 03-05-2018, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
I cannot help but resent Nolan's stubborn, not to mention, to my mind at least, mindless refusal to allow the audio for the home theater editions of his films to be remixed using TrueHD Atmos. Credit where credit is due, though. The sound designs and mixing for all of Nolan's films are brilliant. As we all know if they aren't good no amount of remixing will make them so. Still as good as the DTS-HD MA 5.1 Dunkirk audio was, it could have been made better by being remixed to TrueHD Atmos. compare the 51. audio on the 2007 Blade Runner BD with the remixed Atmos version of the 2017 UHD HDR TrueHD Atmos version and you will see what I mean.
My god gwsat, your absolutely right!...what a shame to not ever here this movie in Atmos!!
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post #48483 of 56641 Old 03-05-2018, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Ladeback View Post
So you are saying the Volt 8's would sound good with Klipsch speakers maybe? I older Klipsch speakers and was looking at a cheaper better speaker to use for a Atmos and surrounds. I was thinking the Volt 8's or 10's. Maybe some day I will change to the 1099's or 1299's for LCR.
IMO you cannot go wrong with sealed Volt 10 (ported Volt 10 is a bit large for ceiling mounting) or ported Volt 8. Should blend well with the Klipsch as I used to find Klipsch rather forward sounding. But it has been ages since I auditioned Klipsch (pre-Atmos), to be honest.

The useful conical dispersion of the Volt is 70° so some aiming is preferable as Dolby writes that you need 90° dispersion for Atmos speakers pointed downwards.

The trouble with Atmos enabled speakers in a solitary position is they don't reach down to 80Hz. They normally don't need to because they are meant to be put on top of a bass capable speaker and the AVR wil send the lower, less-directional frequencies (80-200Hz) to that bigger speaker instead!

So if Klipsch is telling us they can be used as Surround speaker, I need to see some figures. Otherwise, it's BS.

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post #48484 of 56641 Old 03-05-2018, 01:50 PM
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Hadn't seen photos of your finished cinema barn, it looks incredible!
That's an understatement! Thanks for posting - I always find theaters like that to be really inspirational, a reminder of one of my goals in life.

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Overall, the sound is really terrific and I am very pleased with it.
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post #48485 of 56641 Old 03-05-2018, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by scarabaeus View Post
If the gray scale has high dynamic range, no problem. 8 bit with banding, not so much.

(Edit: Actually, I did like the cinematography of Sin City, and that was approx. 2 bit gray scale depth. So, there are exceptions, and it depends.)
Apparently the sound editors & mixers at the Academy feel the same way about sound and don't let the number of channels or lack of objects determine what they consider the best mix of the year. Over the last few years that means sometimes Atmos mixes win (Gravity, Mad Max: Fury Road, Hacksaw Ridge) and other times 5.1 mixes win (Whiplash, Dunkirk). A good mix is a good mix.

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post #48486 of 56641 Old 03-05-2018, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium View Post
IMO you cannot go wrong with sealed Volt 10 (ported Volt 10 is a bit large for ceiling mounting) or ported Volt 8. Should blend well with the Klipsch as I used to find Klipsch rather forward sounding. But it has been ages since I auditioned Klipsch (pre-Atmos), to be honest.

The useful conical dispersion of the Volt is 70° so some aiming is preferable as Dolby writes that you need 90° dispersion for Atmos speakers pointed downwards.

The trouble with Atmos enabled speakers in a solitary position is they don't reach down to 80Hz. They normally don't need to because they are meant to be put on top of a bass capable speaker and the AVR wil send the lower, less-directional frequencies (80-200Hz) to that bigger speaker instead!

So if Klipsch is telling us they can be used as Surround speaker, I need to see some figures. Otherwise, it's BS.
My Klipsch speakers are over 20 years old. My front L/R are KPS-400's the surrounds are RS-3's and my center is a newer RC-7. I thinking of moving RS-3's to the back and use Volt 8's or 10's for side surrounds and Atmos later down the road.

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post #48487 of 56641 Old 03-05-2018, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Apparently the sound editors & mixers at the Academy feel the same way about sound and don't let the number of channels or lack of objects determine what they consider the best mix of the year. Over the last few years that means sometimes Atmos mixes win (Gravity, Mad Max: Fury Road, Hacksaw Ridge) and other times 5.1 mixes win (Whiplash, Dunkirk). A good mix is a good mix.
Here we agree entirely. The quality of the sound design and mix are the most important factors, by far, in the ultimate quality of any film's audio, the codec used to mix it notwithstanding. My problem with Nolan's refusal to allow the audio in his films to to be remixed using the TrueHD Atmos codec for their home theater editions is that his uniformly fine sound design and editing could be made so much better by applying the Atmos codec. Too bad, too bad!
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post #48488 of 56641 Old 03-05-2018, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by relish View Post
This has worked best for me. I had speakers set up as front heights and just moved them yesterday high up on the side walls. Tested using Batman vs.Superman the Rain scene and when Lois took the helicopter. This setup sounded so much better and the sound seemed to come from above. The front height set up was ok. But I prefer the side wall set up.
My heights are on ceiling but spread out a bit. Put surrounds at 93 degrees and surround back spread out further.

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post #48489 of 56641 Old 03-05-2018, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaxon1 View Post
Ok
Im thinking on puting up klipsch rp-140sa in the ceiling becouse the other speakers is klipsch and i can't cut hole in the ceiling.
And and directed towards the first listening position
I am no longer into commercial speakers so I had to look these up. So you want to use Dolby Atmos enabled speakers designed to position on top of larger speakers on the ceiling... Ok, what are the specs of these? Oh wait, the spec sheet says Conforms to Dolby Atmos Specification.

Perfect, then. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/IMG]

You could build DIYSG Volt's at the risk that your other speakers would be needing replacement due to "incoherences" afterwards..[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
so you say that it's not good to put up the Klipsch Rp-140sa speaker in the ceiling or do you think it works?
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post #48490 of 56641 Old 03-05-2018, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Apparently the sound editors & mixers at the Academy feel the same way about sound and don't let the number of channels or lack of objects determine what they consider the best mix of the year. Over the last few years that means sometimes Atmos mixes win (Gravity, Mad Max: Fury Road, Hacksaw Ridge) and other times 5.1 mixes win (Whiplash, Dunkirk). A good mix is a good mix.


Some perspective...

Branches nominate in their categories only (except best picture, for which every voting member gets to put in their top five picks.)

So the sound branch is responsible for nominating the two awards (along with best picture.).

For the Oscar, all voting members of the Academy get to vote for all awards. (the actors branch is the largest, with the sound branch being in the top 4 in terms of size.)

I agree that Dunkirk did a great job of helping to tell the story with its mix and editing... (and I agree with most in that I thought it was WAY too loud...). I remember seeing the film and how stressful and tension filled the track made the experience... which was well executed in that regard..

For better or worse, it’s one of the reasons musicals and war films tend to win in years they are nominated..... those “kind” of tracks represent a large percentage of the visceral impact of those genres, and are easily remembered when the Academy sits down to fill out their final ballots.

As a member of the Academy, we were spoiled with a plethora of good tracks this year to chose from. ... it wasn’t an easy year by any means.... which is a good thing for fans of excellent soundtracks.
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post #48491 of 56641 Old 03-05-2018, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
Some perspective...

Branches nominate in their categories only (except best picture, for which every voting member gets to put in their top five picks.)

So the sound branch is responsible for nominating the two awards (along with best picture.).

For the Oscar, all voting members of the Academy get to vote for all awards. (the actors branch is the largest, with the sound branch being in the top 4 in terms of size.)

I agree that Dunkirk did a great job of helping to tell the story with its mix and editing... (and I agree with most in that I thought it was WAY too loud...). I remember seeing the film and how stressful and tension filled the track made the experience... which was well executed in that regard..

For better or worse, it’s one of the reasons musicals and war films tend to win in years they are nominated..... those “kind” of tracks represent a large percentage of the visceral impact of those genres, and are easily remembered when the Academy sits down to fill out their final ballots.

As a member of the Academy, we were spoiled with a plethora of good tracks this year to chose from. ... it wasn’t an easy year by any means.... which is a good thing for fans of excellent soundtracks.
And the Oscar winner for "Best Sound Contribution To The AVS Forum" goes to....drum roll please....FilmMixer! This is FilmMixer's third AVS Forum Oscar. Accepting on behalf of FilmMixer is .....
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

I agree that Dunkirk did a great job of helping to tell the story with its mix and editing... (and I agree with most in that I thought it was WAY too loud...). I remember seeing the film and how stressful and tension filled the track made the experience... which was well executed in that regard..
There is ongoing discussion of Dunkirk in one of the movie "bass" threads in the subwoofer sub-forum about how much of the track is intentionally clipped, which, as I understand it, substantially limits the soundtrack's dynamic range. Can you give your perspective on this issue?

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...l#post55797670

I had actually thought Bladerunner was going to be a no-brainer for all the sound awards; as an outsider, it was really surprising to me that a clipped 5.1 track actually won the sound awards with Bladerunner 2049 in the mix (which is maybe the best sounding movie I have ever experienced).
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post #48493 of 56641 Old 03-05-2018, 03:51 PM
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...what I find even more disappointing is the way more and more Atmos mixes are being confined to the UHD disk releases.
I agree, though I'd pick a somewhat different word than 'disappointing'.

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I understand the marketing reasoning behind this, to give the premium sound mix with the premium video and thus add value to the UHD package,
Yes, but my response would probably be more cynical. As in, they're desperately trying to gather every small factor they can, to boost UHD sales. Certainly upconverts of 2K DI isn't it. There already isn't any reason not to include the Atmos track on the regular BRs, and it would be beneficial to and enjoyable by everyone owning Atmos-equipped AVRs (that they already paid a pretty penny for). I remember when Atmos came out, and there was NO content... and we were all assured that the content would come. And it has. What we were NOT initially told was that in addition to buying expensive new AVRs, that all (well, almost all) of that promised content would cost us even more. And of course not, because that could have immediately hammered a nail into the whole 'chicken and egg' scenario, before it ever got off the ground.

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...but not everyone wants to pay the extra for UHD releases,
Oh, so very true. Even though I have three 4K-screens, and one faux-4K PJ, I'm not willing to pay the premium for '2K-UHD'. Don't worry though, after all the upconverts have been mined out, the studios will eventually find a way to re-issue real 4K versions (go back to source materials and do proper 4K DI's, maybe even regen'ing the CGI, which is all retained as computer scripts), and sell them all over again. Sweeeet! (That's assuming that streaming hasn't killed optical media by then.)

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...and those of us with PJs may even believe that UHD is not yet 'ready' for the currently available PJs (due to lack of nits).
Oh you nit-picker, you. But don't forget! There's still WCG! I'm happy to pay significantly extra for every disc, just for that!

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It seems a pity that those with Blu-ray 1080p based systems should be denied the pleasures of Atmos sound simply because they currently have no desire for UHD.
Enthusiastic agreement there. I just don't see it changing.

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As more and more movies are object mixed, Atmos or DTS:X, maybe this will change as it would seem especially churlish for the distributors to deliberately take the time and effort to downgrade a 'standard' object mix to 5.1 or 7.1 just for the 1080p Blu-ray, effectively crippling the audio performance potential of the movie.
Ah, well. I'm not sure what might lead you to harbor such hopes. They seem very unrealistic to me, and born of wishful thinking. It's not like the "time and effort to deliberately cripple the audio" will actually involve much time OR effort. That could be done virtually automatically, just by leaving the base layer, and stripping off the Atmos meta-data stream. Are you suggesting that they actually now have professionals manually doing separate remixes for BR, that just use the 5.1/7.1 channels? [I'm not saying they aren't, because I have no information either way. But I'd be pretty surprised if that were the case.]


But hey, I'm a pessimist (or maybe a pragmatist) and you're an optimist. I hope I'm wrong and you're right.
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post #48494 of 56641 Old 03-05-2018, 03:51 PM
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so you say that it's not good to put up the Klipsch Rp-140sa speaker in the ceiling or do you think it works?
As I explained in the other post, "Atmos Enabled" speakers do not need bass as they rely on the supporting larger speaker for that. When they are used in a "diffuse" maner, you will not notice that the bass between, say 80-200 Hz is not provided by them but by the larger speaker because it sits in the vicinity of said speaker. But if you do use it solitalerely, you risk that you hear the bass from Atmos is coming from a different position than from above. It could work, or it could not work.

Which setting would you use on the AVR? Dolby enabled or overhead speakers? The bass management is different in both situations.

IMO, Atmos overhead speakers should be capable of 80 Hz.

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post #48495 of 56641 Old 03-05-2018, 04:05 PM
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My god gwsat, your absolutely right!...what a shame to not ever hear this movie in Atmos!!
"ever" is a very long time. You can't predict the future. I'm optimistic.

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post #48496 of 56641 Old 03-05-2018, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaxon1 View Post
so you say that it's not good to put up the Klipsch Rp-140sa speaker in the ceiling or do you think it works?
As I explained in the other post, "Atmos Enabled" speakers do not need bass as they rely on the supporting larger speaker for that. When they are used in a "diffuse" maner, you will not notice that the bass between, say 80-200 Hz is not provided by them but by the larger speaker because it sits in the vicinity of said speaker. But if you do use it solitalerely, you risk that you hear the bass from Atmos is coming from a different position than from above. It could work, or it could not work.

Which setting would you use on the AVR? Dolby enabled or overhead speakers? The bass management is different in both situations.

IMO, Atmos overhead speakers should be capable of 80 Hz.
Ok
Thanks...
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post #48497 of 56641 Old 03-05-2018, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
As more and more movies are object mixed, Atmos or DTS:X, maybe this will change as it would seem especially churlish for the distributors to deliberately take the time and effort to downgrade a 'standard' object mix to 5.1 or 7.1 just for the 1080p Blu-ray, effectively crippling the audio performance potential of the movie.
I see I did actually have one question for you, which I failed to ask.

Why will it seem 'especially churlish' in the future, but doesn't already seem churlish right now?

I.e., how does quantity of object-mixed content alter the equation in any way? They're crippling it right now, and smiling all the way to the bank. Nobody is complaining that they're not making Atmos content available on BR, that they haven't already produced for the theatrical release, and UHD for home distribution.

[ If the Atmos meta-data couldn't be fit on the discs, and required significantly more space (like UHD video does), then they'd have a legitimate justification. But that is not the case. So I fear we are all just p!ssing in the wind here. (time to don my shades) ]
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post #48498 of 56641 Old 03-05-2018, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by relish View Post
This has worked best for me. I had speakers set up as front heights and just moved them yesterday high up on the side walls. Tested using Batman vs.Superman the Rain scene and when Lois took the helicopter. This setup sounded so much better and the sound seemed to come from above. The front height set up was ok. But I prefer the side wall set up.
This is an interesting observation, that I have not heard before. Where on the side walls did you move your FH's?

And did you re-aim them at the MLP (rather than straight out)?
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post #48499 of 56641 Old 03-05-2018, 05:53 PM
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Saving Private Ryan (20th anniversary edition) announced for 4K UHD release on May 8th with Dolby Vision HDR and a Dolby Atmos remix.

Sanjay
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post #48500 of 56641 Old 03-05-2018, 06:33 PM
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Saving Private Ryan (20th anniversary edition) announced for 4K UHD release on May 8th with Dolby Vision HDR and a Dolby Atmos remix.
I can't believe its been 20 years. Wow. I'm totally stoked to see this flick in Atmos and HDR, but feel a bit miffed I'm getting so old.
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post #48501 of 56641 Old 03-05-2018, 06:48 PM
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Saving Private Ryan (20th anniversary edition) announced for 4K UHD release on May 8th with Dolby Vision HDR and a Dolby Atmos remix.
I can't believe its been 20 years. Wow. I'm totally stoked to see this flick in Atmos and HDR, but feel a bit miffed I'm getting so old. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif[/IMG]
This was the go to movie of its time for a Dolby Digital 5.1 soundtrack. It still sounds great after all these years.

Looking forward to the Atmos release.
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post #48502 of 56641 Old 03-05-2018, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium View Post
Depends how many people you want to put inside. If the outside seats are to close to the side wall, I'd go for the wider front wall.

And you can definitely do 7.2.4. Just put the Side Surrounds ahead of MLP, around +/- 75°. Rear Surrounds in the rear corners. And plenty of thick absorption behind the seats.

The person from the pics above, the honorable K. Barnes, previous' room was just like that and he ended up with 7.2.4. But now he has the Barnes' Barn...

I have a standard size 3 seat couch that I plan on using in the room so would that suggest going with a longer side wall ?
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post #48503 of 56641 Old 03-05-2018, 09:39 PM
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I have a standard size 3 seat couch that I plan on using in the room so would that suggest going with a longer side wall ?
Either way it's going to be cramped for rear speakers. You might even possible get away with 5.1.2. Pull your couch a few feet off the back wall. That still doesn't give you much room for rear ceiling (sound reflections off back wall will be bad) IMO your better off puting your mains on the wide wall spread out. This will also give you a little room to spread out your surrounds. Maybe put the surrounds a little behind/side of you toed in so some of the sound comes from behind you. 5.1.2 with ceiling right above you is my recomendation, or pull the couch 1/3 of the way into the room . Then you can might be able cram 7.1.4 in there.

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post #48504 of 56641 Old 03-05-2018, 11:36 PM
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Dolby Atmos

I was surprised that the Netflix rental of "Darkest Hour"actually included the Dolby Atmos soundtrack. It isn't a real active soundtrack but it was nice that they provided it. I've had many rentals in the past where they replaced the original soundtrack with a dumb-downed version.

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post #48505 of 56641 Old 03-06-2018, 02:42 AM
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And unfortunately, with Dunkirk winning Oscars for both sound editing and mixing, there probably won't be much incentive for Nolan to change his ways. It's weird... as he is obviously an exceptional talent and a brilliant filmmaker.... just not with embracing the latest object audio formats!
Even worse is that he hasn't really embraced even 7.1. My other gripe with some of his movies is the aspect ratio changing. Those of us with fixed CIH screens have a real dilemma with movies that do that. Do we watch in 1.85:1 and get the widescreen sections really small, or do we watch in 2.39:1 and have the 1.85 sections bleed off the screen? Neither is satisfactory. It was even more irritating with Dunkirk because they produced a regular 2.39 version for theaters that couldn't project the IMAX/2.39 mix, which they could have released on disc for HT use, but they decided we'd have the 'theatrical' version even though Blu-ray will clearly only be used in a HT! They could have given us the choice, using seamless branching, as they do with Director's Cut versions etc.
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post #48506 of 56641 Old 03-06-2018, 02:45 AM
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That's an understatement! Thanks for posting - I always find theaters like that to be really inspirational, a reminder of one of my goals in life.



REALLY nice! My sincere kudos to a job well done.

Are you adopting? I'm only 48..... I promise I will just stay in the theater and I won't make a mess....
Haha. Many thanks for the kind remarks BTW. TBH, the room looks better in real life than in those photos. The photos were kindly taken for me by one of the members of AV Forums here in the UK who came along for a demo and they do give a feel for what it is like to be in there. One of my major concerns was to get as good an Atmos result as I could, within the confines of 7.x.4 (which I personally think is more than enough for a room of that size).
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post #48507 of 56641 Old 03-06-2018, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Apparently the sound editors & mixers at the Academy feel the same way about sound and don't let the number of channels or lack of objects determine what they consider the best mix of the year. Over the last few years that means sometimes Atmos mixes win (Gravity, Mad Max: Fury Road, Hacksaw Ridge) and other times 5.1 mixes win (Whiplash, Dunkirk). A good mix is a good mix.
Yes, even a massive Atmos fan like me can't disagree with that. HST, I'd love to see every movie getting a good object mix (emphasis on 'good'). It has been such a massive step forward in movie sound that I'd just love to have every new release with Atmos or DTS:X sound.
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post #48508 of 56641 Old 03-06-2018, 02:58 AM
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Originally Posted by VideoGrabber View Post

Yes, but my response would probably be more cynical. As in, they're desperately trying to gather every small factor they can, to boost UHD sales. Certainly upconverts of 2K DI isn't it. There already isn't any reason not to include the Atmos track on the regular BRs, and it would be beneficial to and enjoyable by everyone owning Atmos-equipped AVRs (that they already paid a pretty penny for). I remember when Atmos came out, and there was NO content... and we were all assured that the content would come. And it has. What we were NOT initially told was that in addition to buying expensive new AVRs, that all (well, almost all) of that promised content would cost us even more. And of course not, because that could have immediately hammered a nail into the whole 'chicken and egg' scenario, before it ever got off the ground.
Good point well made. We are in agreement on this, even though we perhaps look at it in slightly different ways.


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Oh, so very true. Even though I have three 4K-screens, and one faux-4K PJ, I'm not willing to pay the premium for '2K-UHD'. Don't worry though, after all the upconverts have been mined out, the studios will eventually find a way to re-issue real 4K versions (go back to source materials and do proper 4K DI's, maybe even regen'ing the CGI, which is all retained as computer scripts), and sell them all over again. Sweeeet! (That's assuming that streaming hasn't killed optical media by then.)
You cynic you! As if.....

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Ah, well. I'm not sure what might lead you to harbor such hopes. They seem very unrealistic to me, and born of wishful thinking. It's not like the "time and effort to deliberately cripple the audio" will actually involve much time OR effort. That could be done virtually automatically, just by leaving the base layer, and stripping off the Atmos meta-data stream. Are you suggesting that they actually now have professionals manually doing separate remixes for BR, that just use the 5.1/7.1 channels? [I'm not saying they aren't, because I have no information either way. But I'd be pretty surprised if that were the case.]


But hey, I'm a pessimist (or maybe a pragmatist) and you're an optimist. I hope I'm wrong and you're right.
Again, good point well made. Perhaps its just wishful thinking on my part. But I hope not. I really would like to see Atmos mixes on all Blu-rays. Or maybe for UHD releases to be more sensibly priced. If they really do want to see UHD take off, then the current disc prices aren't helping them in that regard.

Given that most home content is still consumed on DVD, it seems odd to more or less price their premier format of UHD out of the market. If people baulk at paying the extra for Blu-ray, then it seems unlikely they will pay the extra-extra for UHD.
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post #48509 of 56641 Old 03-06-2018, 02:59 AM
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I see I did actually have one question for you, which I failed to ask.

Why will it seem 'especially churlish' in the future, but doesn't already seem churlish right now?

I.e., how does quantity of object-mixed content alter the equation in any way? They're crippling it right now, and smiling all the way to the bank. Nobody is complaining that they're not making Atmos content available on BR, that they haven't already produced for the theatrical release, and UHD for home distribution.

[ If the Atmos meta-data couldn't be fit on the discs, and required significantly more space (like UHD video does), then they'd have a legitimate justification. But that is not the case. So I fear we are all just p!ssing in the wind here. (time to don my shades) ]
I think you are right. It *is* churlish now.
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post #48510 of 56641 Old 03-06-2018, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Saving Private Ryan (20th anniversary edition) announced for 4K UHD release on May 8th with Dolby Vision HDR and a Dolby Atmos remix.
Thanks for that info Sanjay. This will be a 'must have', UHD or not. I can see the point of limiting the Atmos track to a remixed or remastered version of a movie. It costs significant money to remaster a movie (I imagine) so it seems reasonable that we should pay more. My gripe is the cynical use of original Atmos tracks to bolster UHD disc sales, which deprives so many people of the extra pleasure of an Atmos mix with their movie. Still, I guess complaining that Hollywood is just out to make money is like complaining that it's cold in winter.
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