The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 1698 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #50911 of 54921 Old 08-03-2018, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post
Stu...given the choice...one or the other...which would you not give up...9.X.4 or 7.X.6...wides or TM?
Assuming you can do either in your room and gear, my personal opinion is that I'd do 7.x.6 over 9.x.4 IF those were the only choices.

Why? It ultimately comes down to how often each are used, where IMO top middles are just used more often than wides in Atmos mixes. Also, there's an argument that having that third set of speakers overhead will stabilize what you hear above you on panning effects, and help separate out sounds above you. You're also covering three areas of the height layer (front, middle, rear).

Don't get me wrong, I'd still rather have discrete content rendered to wides than not, but at least in my opinion the top middles are just more noticeable of the two for most content.
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post #50912 of 54921 Old 08-03-2018, 02:46 PM
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I’m so old, I started my passion for home theater when I learned that Miami Vice was being broadcast in STEREO. I must have spent a grand on the first processor (Zenith) that received the stereo signal which I connected to my stereo system. I’m like a pig in s...t with my 5.2.4 Atmos setup.
zenith lol! I used to watch miami vice on my mom's old zenith television. Havent heard that in a long time.
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post #50913 of 54921 Old 08-03-2018, 03:20 PM
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zenith lol! I used to watch miami vice on my mom's old zenith television. Havent heard that in a long time.
It's been quite a long journey from b&w Zenith and RCA sets with mono, then color (adjusting the horizontal and the vertical), to sets with stereo, rear projection big screens, receivers with Dolby surround, DPL IIx and z, Dolby Digital 5.1, HDTV, and now with UHD/HDR flat screens and Dolby Atmos 3D sound.

I am so happy I've lived long enough to experience what is available today for home theater. Not sure what the next great advance in A/V holds but for right now, ..I'm good.
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post #50914 of 54921 Old 08-03-2018, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by camd5pt0 View Post
I just thought of something.
Denon + Audyssey = no boosted front heights.
But what about top fronts, not affected?
Just to be clear... It has been shown with my Denon receiver (AVR-X5200W) using Audyssey Dynamic EQ with 4 overheads that no volume boost is being applied to my designated Top Fronts... but the Top Rears are being boosted just like the other surround speakers.. This works the same way ...whether with the Atmos test tones and when using the DSU upmixer. I have not tested the front Heights/ Rear Heights designation, but I can only surmise that it would also work the same way... I really would like to hear from others when using the 7.1.4 Atmos test tones with Dynamic EQ to see if this works the same for other Receiver/prepro models and manufacturers to see if this is only a Denon thing or if that is how it works with any Audyssey MultEQ XT32 equiped model....
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post #50915 of 54921 Old 08-03-2018, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post
Not really surprised. It's not a popular position in the high end/flagship AVR threads but IMO, very good Atmos results can be obtained very inexpensively. My personal Atmos exploratory journey began two years ago with an Onkyo 636 ($250) and Micca ($40) in ceiling speakers. The critical learning since then is that any AVR with an Atmos decoder and most speakers properly installed and positioned will yield very good results. I've upgraded my AVR only recently but have retained the Micca's as I've found no compelling reason to replace them. The higher end AVR's with 9.X.6 capability and promise of HDMI 2.1 do not yet appeal to me as content is scarce. In 2-3 years, when ample content is available and HDMI 2.1 matures, my interest will no doubt return. In the meantime, I'm no longer a leading/bleeding edge enthusiast and subscribe to the adage of not investing in electronics that quickly decline in function and value. To put all this in perspective, the difference between an Onkyo HT-R494 or even an upstream model and flagship AVR can buy a 4K projector, a 70" flat panel display, several UHD players, a good 7 channel amp, etc. Just my .02 and of course YMMV.
Hi Gene,

I'm looking into getting a couple of the Micca R-8C's for Atmos duties, and I noticed in a previous post that you had built a 2^3 enlosure for some of yours (excluding in-ceiling). With that being said, I was wondering if you recall what the cut sizes were for the enclosures? Or if you think that the blanketing around them will work better...and if so, how did you go about that application?

I mainly ask these questions, because my main concern is keeping the dust/debris off of them. Of course, I would want to make sure that I get the best sound out of them as I possibly can.


Thanks,

Darrell

"Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken." - Tyler Durden

Living Room - Denon: AVR-X2400H/Hsu Research: HB-1 Bookshelfs (4)/Hsu Research: HC-1 Center (1)/SVS: PB12 Plus (1)/Samsung: UN65H7150/Sony: UBP-X800/PC: Built by D-Rail
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post #50916 of 54921 Old 08-03-2018, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Assuming you can do either in your room and gear, my personal opinion is that I'd do 7.x.6 over 9.x.4 IF those were the only choices.

Why? It ultimately comes down to how often each are used, where IMO top middles are just used more often than wides in Atmos mixes. Also, there's an argument that having that third set of speakers overhead will stabilize what you hear above you on panning effects, and help separate out sounds above you. You're also covering three areas of the height layer (front, middle, rear).

Don't get me wrong, I'd still rather have discrete content rendered to wides than not, but at least in my opinion the top middles are just more noticeable of the two for most content.

Appreciate your feedback! I've had three pairs of in-ceilings (TF, TM, and TR) installed for over 2 years awaiting the appropriate hardware...i.e. for you to upgrade so I could bid on your Trinnov. Although the 8500 appears to accommodate my needs, I hesitate to commit until there is a competitive product to consider. Thus, I have an Onkyo 920 + 2 ch amp providing a temporary solution for my 7.2.4 config. Also in the interim, I have had an opportunity to experiment with various overhead configurations for my two rows of seating. Since my room and seating config can accommodate wides and three pairs of overheads, my curiosity prompted me to ask the question to someone who has experience with both. For the record, my gut/intuition aligns with your arguments, thoughts and impressions. Thanks again!

Epson: 5040UB | Elite: 115" Fixed Frame CinemaScope (2.35:1) | Onkyo: TX-RZ920 + M-5010 (7.2.4) | Klipsch: RF-7 II's, RC-64 II, RS-62 II, RB-61 II MICCA: M-8C (Atmos) x 6 | SVS: PB16-Ultra x 2 | Philips: BDP7501, Panasonic: DMP UB900, Oppo: UDP-203
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post #50917 of 54921 Old 08-03-2018, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by d-rail34 View Post
Hi Gene,

I'm looking into getting a couple of the Micca R-8C's for Aymos duties, and I noticed in a previous post that you had built a 2^3 enlosure for some of yours (excluding in-ceiling). With that being said, I was wondering if you recall what the cut sizes were for the enclosures? Or if you think that the blanketing around them will work better...and if so, how did you go about that application?

I mainly ask these questions, because my main concern is keeping the dust/debris off of them. Of course, I would want to make sure that I get the best sound out of them as I possibly can.


Thanks,

Darrell

Hi Darrell,

I believe you're referencing the enclosures I posted about two years ago when discussing the Micca's! Rather than an infinite baffle, the enclosures were meant to preview what the Micca's would sound like before I actually began cutting holes in the ceiling. In reality, the enclosures were just cardboard boxes I had laying around with appropriate speaker sized holes cut into them. I got the idea from members in the DIY threads who apparently do this to initially test speakers. To my surprise, this worked well as the Micca's actually sounded good...even when pushed to near reference level. For the actual installation, I decided not to use a backer box/enclosure. I did, however, use blanket insulation as recommended by Micca just to reduce possible vibration and sound transmission to other parts of the house. My speakers are installed between 16" OC floor joists with the insulation forming a cavity of approximately 2.0cf. Since you are mostly concerned with dust/debris, I would recommend speaker covers like those from Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/OEM-Systems-I...ker+dust+cover

Believe it or not, I still have the box and it's actually 3.5cf (28"x18"x12").

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1464[1].JPG
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ID:	2436970Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1465[1].JPG
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Size:	1.36 MB
ID:	2436972

Note: If you'll recall, I purchased the Micca's to experiment with Atmos requirements: FR, dispersion, power handling, installation, placement, etc. with the full intent of upgrading once I better understood performance requirements and parameters. It's two years later now and I'm sure there are better performing speakers but I've found no Atmos or DTS:X content demanding enough to replacing them.

Epson: 5040UB | Elite: 115" Fixed Frame CinemaScope (2.35:1) | Onkyo: TX-RZ920 + M-5010 (7.2.4) | Klipsch: RF-7 II's, RC-64 II, RS-62 II, RB-61 II MICCA: M-8C (Atmos) x 6 | SVS: PB16-Ultra x 2 | Philips: BDP7501, Panasonic: DMP UB900, Oppo: UDP-203
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post #50918 of 54921 Old 08-03-2018, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post
Hi Darrell,

I believe you're referencing the enclosures I posted about two years ago when discussing the Micca's! Rather than an infinite baffle, the enclosures were meant to preview what the Micca's would sound like before I actually began cutting holes in the ceiling. In reality, the enclosures were just cardboard boxes I had laying around with appropriate speaker sized holes cut into them. I got the idea from members in the DIY threads who apparently do this to initially test speakers. To my surprise, this worked well as the Micca's actually sounded good...even when pushed to near reference level. For the actual installation, I decided not to use a backer box/enclosure. I did, however, use blanket insulation as recommended by Micca just to reduce possible vibration and sound transmission to other parts of the house. My speakers are installed between 16" OC floor joists with the insulation forming a cavity of approximately 2.0cf. Since you are mostly concerned with dust/debris, I would recommend speaker covers like those from Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/OEM-Systems-I...ker+dust+cover

Believe it or not, I still have the box and it's actually 3.5cf (28"x18"x12").

Attachment 2436970Attachment 2436972

Note: If you'll recall, I purchased the Micca's to experiment with Atmos requirements: FR, dispersion, power handling, installation, placement, etc. with the full intent of upgrading once I better understood performance requirements and parameters. It's two years later now and I'm sure there are better performing speakers but I've found no Atmos or DTS:X content demanding enough to replacing them.
I must say, the protective covers look like a good solution.

I also read a post where a forumite used these https://www.homedepot.com/p/12-in-To...H-SI/203621285 as backers for his M-8C's, and said they worked well for his application. Although a very unusual alternative, it did arouse my curiosity.

I do still wonder if it's worth building enclosures though. I suppose I could try one, or both of the alternatives first before deciding on builing them.

Ultimately, I just want to make sure that I can get the best possible sound out of them that I can.

"Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken." - Tyler Durden

Living Room - Denon: AVR-X2400H/Hsu Research: HB-1 Bookshelfs (4)/Hsu Research: HC-1 Center (1)/SVS: PB12 Plus (1)/Samsung: UN65H7150/Sony: UBP-X800/PC: Built by D-Rail
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post #50919 of 54921 Old 08-03-2018, 09:26 PM
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If you can set them up nicely, in accordance with Dolby guidelines (for reflection angle, ceiling type etc) I am sure you will be more happy with them than the alternative of no Atmos at all. Don't be led by naysayers - make up your own mind, in your own room. Upfirers will sound 'different' to on-ceiling speakers, but 'different' is not synonymous with 'inferior'. I have a dedicated cinema so naturally went with on-ceiling speakers, but if I was in a regular living space, I would not feel in the least short-changed by upfirers. More diffuse vs more precise - both have their fans. Please let us know how you get on, and good luck with it.
So, I ran through Audyssey, turned off DynEQ and played around with the demo disc a bit. At first, I wasn't really hearing things overhead like you would expect. Then I snagged my old MoPads out of the garage and used them to raise the Pioneers up a bit and angle them slightly forward (because my seating is further back than the sweet spot of the bounce seemed to be). That definitely got me a sense of overhead sound, though certainly not as precise as my old setup. Still, in the demo that has the musical notes overhead in an arc, it placed things surprisingly well.

I do have a few concerns as far as tweaking goes. My Denon set the Pioneers to a 120Hz crossover... but I thought upfirers needed to be crossed over around 180Hz or so per Dolby. Unfortunately, my only options above that are 150Hz and 200Hz. I set it to 150Hz and it seemed to clean overhead sounds up. I'm curious as to what I should be doing here or if it's even that crucial.

Additionally, as far as distance/delay goes... How is the Audyssey mic even measuring that if the intent is to measure the sound bounced off the ceiling rather than from the speaker itself? The distances it measured came out about the same as the distances to the mains they're sitting on (both measured 0.2 ft more than my mains). Is this something people are finding needs to be tweaked with the Dolby Enabled speakers?

After fiddling with the demo disc for a bit, I rewatched Hacksaw Ridge at volume, listening for those scary overhead whizzes of the mortar fire. There is definitely a larger overall sound with the upfirers, so I'm calling it a win no matter what. I like the more generalized sound, actually... though it doesn't have the "oomph" that my in-ceiling setup had. I just feel like further tweaking may be necessary.
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post #50920 of 54921 Old 08-03-2018, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by deano86 View Post
Just to be clear... It has been shown with my Denon receiver (AVR-X5200W) using Audyssey Dynamic EQ with 4 overheads that no volume boost is being applied to my designated Top Fronts... but the Top Rears are being boosted just like the other surround speakers.. This works the same way ...whether with the Atmos test tones and when using the DSU upmixer. I have not tested the front Heights/ Rear Heights designation, but I can only surmise that it would also work the same way... I really would like to hear from others when using the 7.1.4 Atmos test tones with Dynamic EQ to see if this works the same for other Receiver/prepro models and manufacturers to see if this is only a Denon thing or if that is how it works with any Audyssey MultEQ XT32 equiped model....
You're right it works the same way in my heights front and rear in 7.1.4
I have turned off Dynamic volume and dynamic EQ. It sounds amazing workout it, much more separation in discreet sounds

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post #50921 of 54921 Old 08-03-2018, 10:15 PM
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I must say, the protective covers look like a good solution.
Agree...cheap, simple, and easy solution...if dust and debris are your only concerns.

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Originally Posted by d-rail34 View Post
I also read a post where a forumite used these https://www.homedepot.com/p/12-in-To...H-SI/203621285 as backers for his M-8C's, and said they worked well for his application. Although a very unusual alternative, it did arouse my curiosity.
Different and unusual indeed! But does appear to serve the purpose.

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I do still wonder if it's worth building enclosures though. I suppose I could try one, or both of the alternatives first before deciding on builing them.
You appear to have DIY skills and building a box is relatively simple and cheap. If you have the time, why not try one.

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Ultimately, I just want to make sure that I can get the best possible sound out of them that I can.
IMO, sound quality is important but should not be a major concern with regard to Atmos duty. WRT to all the content I've listened to in the past two years...i.e. insects, birds, wind, rain, rustling leaves & trees, voices, etc. are just not that demanding. Mid and low bass in movies (aircraft, gunshots, thunder, etc) are handled by the subs. That leaves music/concerts in Atmos...I've experienced no issues near reference (-5db) with Hans Zimmer: Live in Prague or Roger Waters - The Wall (Live in Berlin) for example.

Epson: 5040UB | Elite: 115" Fixed Frame CinemaScope (2.35:1) | Onkyo: TX-RZ920 + M-5010 (7.2.4) | Klipsch: RF-7 II's, RC-64 II, RS-62 II, RB-61 II MICCA: M-8C (Atmos) x 6 | SVS: PB16-Ultra x 2 | Philips: BDP7501, Panasonic: DMP UB900, Oppo: UDP-203
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post #50922 of 54921 Old 08-03-2018, 10:24 PM
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Agree...cheap, simple, and easy solution...if dust and debris are your only concerns.



Different and unusual indeed! But does appear to serve the purpose.



You appear to have DIY skills and building a box is relatively simple and cheap. If you have the time, why not try one.



IMO, sound quality is important but should not be a major concern with regard to Atmos duty. WRT to all the content I've listened to in the past two years...i.e. insects, birds, wind, rain, rustling leaves & trees, voices, etc. are just not that demanding. Mid and low bass in movies (aircraft, gunshots, thunder, etc) are handled by the subs. That leaves music/concerts in Atmos...I've experienced no issues near reference (-5db) with Hans Zimmer: Live in Prague or Roger Waters - The Wall (Live in Berlin) for example.
I was just reading one of the previous posts that says the Dolby recommendations on the Atmos speakers is to have a XO setting of 180Hz, so I'll have to verify that. If this is indeed the case, then something like the dust cover you recommended may just do the trick.

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post #50923 of 54921 Old 08-03-2018, 10:47 PM
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I was just reading one of the previous posts that says the Dolby recommendations on the Atmos speakers is to have a XO setting of 180Hz, so I'll have to verify that. If this is indeed the case, then something like the dust cover you recommended may just do the trick.
I can’t say I’ve ever seen it recommended that high. I would have thought lower...in the neighborhood of 100-120 would have been my guess.

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post #50924 of 54921 Old 08-03-2018, 11:02 PM
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I can’t say I’ve ever seen it recommended that high. I would have thought lower...in the neighborhood of 100-120 would have been my guess.
Yeah, I also thought it to be kind of high as well.

Here is something I pulled from the Dolby website that helps clarify this:

"If the chosen overhead speakers have a wide dispersion pattern (approximately 45 degrees from the
acoustical reference axis over the audio band from 100 Hz to 10 kHz or wider), then speakers may be
mounted facing directly downward. For speakers with narrower dispersion patterns, those with aimable
or angled elements should be angled toward the primary listening position."

I'm going to keep reading this guide to see if there's anything else as far as XO recommendations.


[EDIT] There is nothing else that specifies frequencies in Dolby's Atmos installation guide. That being said, I believe that a 100-120Hz XO will suffice.

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post #50925 of 54921 Old 08-04-2018, 04:56 AM
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I do have a few concerns as far as tweaking goes. My Denon set the Pioneers to a 120Hz crossover... but I thought upfirers needed to be crossed over around 180Hz or so per Dolby. Unfortunately, my only options above that are 150Hz and 200Hz. I set it to 150Hz and it seemed to clean overhead sounds up. I'm curious as to what I should be doing here or if it's even that crucial.
My understanding (which could be wrong) is that the 180 Hz crossover takes place between the upfiring speaker and the corresponding ear-level speaker. It's explicitly designed into the signal driving the upfiring speaker and cannot be defeated. It is separate from the 120Hz crossover which is reported to you. The latter takes place between that overhead channel and the subwoofer and (presumably) is the same as the crossover frequency of that corresponding ear-level speaker.

ETA:
In other words, raising its reported crossover frequency would reduce the amount of audio sent to the corresponding ear-level speaker, sending it to the subwoofer instead, improving its directionality.

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post #50926 of 54921 Old 08-04-2018, 06:08 AM
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My understanding (which could be wrong) is that the 180 Hz crossover takes place between the upfiring speaker and the corresponding ear-level speaker. It's explicitly designed into the signal driving the upfiring speaker and cannot be defeated. It is separate from the 120Hz crossover which is reported to you. The latter takes place between that overhead channel and the subwoofer and (presumably) is the same as the crossover frequency of that corresponding ear-level speaker.

ETA:
In other words, raising its reported crossover frequency would reduce the amount of audio sent to the corresponding ear-level speaker, sending it to the subwoofer instead, improving its directionality.
There couldn't be a separate crossover... because they're separate speakers. The only crossover would be whatever the receiver is doing. This is for the Pioneer SP-T22A-LR upfirers, which are sitting on top of my Polk RTi70 towers, so there's no electrical component between them - just what the receiver assigns. Or are you saying that when you set it to Dolby Enabled speaker at that position, the system is automatically crossing things over at 180Hz to the speaker it's on top of? If so, why would it read 120Hz?

Y'know... It just occurred to me that it may not have read 120Hz at all. Audyssey always reads all my speakers as large and the first thing I do is change them to small and assign 40Hz to my towers, 60 to my center and 80 to my surrounds. So maybe 120Hz was just the default when I changed to small. Crap. Now I gotta' go back and see what Audyssey originally assigned to them.

(Scratch what I just said - I checked Audyssey and it originally read every speaker as large but assigned the Dolby upfirers as small, 120Hz. So my initial assessment was correct.)

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Last edited by Jeremy Anderson; 08-04-2018 at 06:29 AM.
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post #50927 of 54921 Old 08-04-2018, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post
There couldn't be a separate crossover... because they're separate speakers. The only crossover would be whatever the receiver is doing. This is for the Pioneer SP-T22A-LR upfirers, which are sitting on top of my Polk RTi70 towers, so there's no electrical component between them - just what the receiver assigns. Or are you saying that when you set it to Dolby Enabled speaker at that position, the system is automatically crossing things over at 180Hz to the speaker it's on top of?
Yes, that's what I'm saying. That's what Dolby's licensing requires for their patented upfiring "Atmos enabled" speaker designs which Pioneer's speakers are based on. That licensing also applies to the firmware used in the receiver when you select its "Dolby" overhead speaker option.

Also, as confirmation, the specs for your Pioneer up-firing speakers rate them for only 180Hz-20KHz. See https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/e...le%20Sheet.pdf
Quote:
If so, why would it read 120Hz?
Because that's the combined response of the upfiring speakers and the ear-level speakers that they're sitting on top of.

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post #50928 of 54921 Old 08-04-2018, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Because that's the combined response of the upfiring speakers and the ear-level speakers that they're sitting on top of.
But the ear-level speakers they're sitting on are towers that read as Large. My RTi70s are solid down to about 28Hz, but I cross them over at 40Hz because I have an SVS 20-39CS+ rig tuned to 18Hz for bass duties. So if that's the "combined response", why wouldn't it read the upfirers as "Large" too?

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post #50929 of 54921 Old 08-04-2018, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post
But the ear-level speakers they're sitting on are towers that read as Large. My RTi70s are solid down to about 28Hz, but I cross them over at 40Hz because I have an SVS 20-39CS+ rig tuned to 18Hz for bass duties. So if that's the "combined response", why wouldn't it read the upfirers as "Large" too?
TBH, now so am I. *sigh*

Oh, well, what matters is how it sounds, which hopefully is enjoyable.

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post #50930 of 54921 Old 08-04-2018, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
TBH, now so am I. *sigh*

Oh, well, what matters is how it sounds, which hopefully is enjoyable.
Oh, yeah... but wringing every bit of performance out of our systems is kinda' why we're all here, so I gotta' understand this to make sure it's "right".

It obviously isn't automatically crossing over to the mains for purposes of Audyssey's detection, because the attached is what Audyssey read from the Dolby Enabled speakers. I can see why it applied 120Hz here based on what it's reading, so I guess I'll try them at 150 and 200 to see which works best. Seems like it just uses the system crossover to the sub, not a redirect to the mains.

In addition, I just measured from the upfirers to the ceiling and then to the MLP and it came out 4 feet more than what Audyssey read, so I'll be plugging those numbers in and seeing how it sounds. It'll give me an excuse to watch some of my Atmos titles again.
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post #50931 of 54921 Old 08-04-2018, 08:10 AM
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Smile Rear Surround Location?

Last time I was here, I attached photos of my setup. It was suggested that perhaps the sw could be better placed than next to the credenza. Photo 1"current 2". After some time on the SW forum, and a how to from @MThomas , I learned how to do the SW crawl with 2 spkrs and only one signal. Clearly that technique said move the subs. I did. Photo 2"current 1". I thought it sounded terrific. But, ......
That was using my Yammy V583.. Then, I found a screaming sale on a Onkyo TX-NR787 (9.2). So, for $260 more I could up my config to 5.2.4 from .2. Just had to do it... LOL. I also found some Klipsch's a pair of R-14SA on sale. Snagged them. Today's question, where to locate them? Photo 3.
My intent is to place at the X's spaced the same as the fronts in photo 1; but how high up the rear wall. That wall is 11' rear of the MLP. The MLP is within one foot of being in the center of the "new" Atmos listening box. The surround, not pictured, are ear level on each side of the MLP.

Thoughts, please?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck666 View Post
Last time I was here, I attached photos of my setup. It was suggested that perhaps the sw could be better placed than next to the credenza. Photo 1"current 2". After some time on the SW forum, and a how to from @MThomas , I learned how to do the SW crawl with 2 spkrs and only one signal. Clearly that technique said move the subs. I did. Photo 2"current 1". I thought it sounded terrific. But, ......
That was using my Yammy V583.. Then, I found a screaming sale on a Onkyo TX-NR787 (9.2). So, for $260 more I could up my config to 5.2.4 from .2. Just had to do it... LOL. I also found some Klipsch's a pair of R-14SA on sale. Snagged them. Today's question, where to locate them? Photo 3.
My intent is to place at the X's spaced the same as the fronts in photo 1; but how high up the rear wall. That wall is 11' rear of the MLP. The MLP is within one foot of being in the center of the "new" Atmos listening box. The surround, not pictured, are ear level on each side of the MLP.

Thoughts, please?
The solution is not how high they should be mounted but rather what angle. See the diagram below for the rear height speakers.

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Further Atmos speaker installation details can be found at...

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...guidelines.pdf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post
The solution is not how high they should be mounted but rather what angle. See the diagram below for the rear height speakers.

Attachment 2437316

Further Atmos speaker installation details can be found at...

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...guidelines.pdf
Thanks Gene,

So, as long as they point at the MLP; it doesn't matter? I was using figure 16 as my guidance drawing.

Also, I was born and raised in Flint and left there for AZ in 1993. GMC brat.... LOL

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post #50934 of 54921 Old 08-04-2018, 01:20 PM
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Quick question. I have a 5.1.2 currently setup and I'm going to be moving to a 5.1.4 setup. Currently I have my heights set to top middle. Once I go to 5.1.4 should I set the fronts to top front or continue using top middle? What is the difference between the two settings and does it matter?

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post #50935 of 54921 Old 08-04-2018, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by TViewer2000 View Post
Quick question. I have a 5.1.2 currently setup and I'm going to be moving to a 5.1.4 setup. Currently I have my heights set to top middle. Once I go to 5.1.4 should I set the fronts to top front or continue using top middle? What is the difference between the two settings and does it matter?


If I remember correctly, with my Marantz, I couldn’t set top middle and top rear. I had to use top height. Not sure what room correction software you’re using.


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post #50936 of 54921 Old 08-04-2018, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck666 View Post
So, as long as they point at the MLP; it doesn't matter?

Keeping it within the recommended tolerance of 135-150 degrees will provide the most accuracy and best results...slightly outside of that range will generally still yield acceptable effects...just not as accurate.


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Also, I was born and raised in Flint and left there for AZ in 1993. GMC brat.... LOL

LOL...ahhh...GMC and Buick City....Flint is just a shell of the city it once was. Unfortunately, the only attention it's gotten lately was around the water quality issue. At any rate, hope you're finding life good in AZ!

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post #50937 of 54921 Old 08-04-2018, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deano86 View Post
Just to be clear... It has been shown with my Denon receiver (AVR-X5200W) using Audyssey Dynamic EQ with 4 overheads that no volume boost is being applied to my designated Top Fronts... but the Top Rears are being boosted just like the other surround speakers.. This works the same way ...whether with the Atmos test tones and when using the DSU upmixer. I have not tested the front Heights/ Rear Heights designation, but I can only surmise that it would also work the same way... I really would like to hear from others when using the 7.1.4 Atmos test tones with Dynamic EQ to see if this works the same for other Receiver/prepro models and manufacturers to see if this is only a Denon thing or if that is how it works with any Audyssey MultEQ XT32 equiped model....
I just tried it on my Denon 4400. Confirmed that the top fronts are not boosted. It boggles the mind that anyone at Denon would think that is the proper way to do it.
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post #50938 of 54921 Old 08-04-2018, 07:26 PM
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I just tried it on my Denon 4400. Confirmed that the top fronts are not boosted. It boggles the mind that anyone at Denon would think that is the proper way to do it.
It's Audyssey's way to do it. Denon simply licenses the technology. Audyssey Dynamic EQ has always boosted speakers around you but not speakers in front of you. Since Top Fronts are in front of you, they don't get boosted, consistent with how it's always been. Don't see why that "boggles the mind".
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post #50939 of 54921 Old 08-04-2018, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simple man View Post
If I remember correctly, with my Marantz, I couldn’t set top middle and top rear. I had to use top height. Not sure what room correction software you’re using.


Colton
I plan on getting the Onkyo 787, so Audyssey. Is there any difference in Top Front and Top Middle?
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post #50940 of 54921 Old 08-04-2018, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
It's Audyssey's way to do it. Denon simply licenses the technology. Audyssey Dynamic EQ has always boosted speakers around you but not speakers in front of you. Since Top Fronts are in front of you, they don't get boosted, consistent with how it's always been. Don't see why that "boggles the mind".
Eh? According to @deano86 , it's Denon not doing what Audyssey says they should be doing (emphasis mine below):

Quote:
Originally Posted by deano86 View Post
Just as an update to this.....

Quite a while ago, I found ... or I thought that I found, that "both" sets of my Height speakers were NOT being boosted by Dynamic EQ. And after some more of the recent conversations, I submitted an actual question to Ask Audyssey support regarding this discrepancy. After a couple week delay a rep from Ask Audyssey apologized and starting looking into my query. His initial answers were that indeed boost should also be applied to the Height speakers if using a proper implementation of Dynamic EQ in the receiver. I then asked if there could be differences in implementation between manufacturers or even specific models? He then forwarded my concern to Denon itself. The most recent response from Denon according Audyssey support was that Dynamic EQ is working properly for the Height speakers in their testing.
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Well, I finally heard back from Ask Audyssey... and they confirmed with Denon, that Top Front Atmos speakers will NOT receive any Dynamic EQ boost... It appears that Denon(at least) is conforming to the thought that sounds in front do not need any sort of low volume level boost ... mainly only surrounds, rear surrounds and subwoofer as per normal.
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