The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 1746 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 24980Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #52351 of 55029 Old 11-20-2018, 02:46 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 27,229
Mentioned: 127 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7738 Post(s)
Liked: 7024
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Nobody is suggesting non-horn surrounds & heights to go with horn L/C/Rs?
Sorry - long day here. I misunderstood your point. There is indeed no timbral match problem at all when having LCR horns and non-horn surrounds, as my own setup here in the Cowshed so ably demonstrates. I think that this points to the entire issue of timbral matching being so overblown. If it is an issue at all, it is not a very significant issue (given good room EQ) and for many of us it clearly isn't any sort of issue. That is why I expressed surprise earlier at the amount of 'airtime' it regularly seems to get.
kbarnes701 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #52352 of 55029 Old 11-20-2018, 02:48 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 27,229
Mentioned: 127 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7738 Post(s)
Liked: 7024
Quote:
Originally Posted by camd5pt0 View Post
I have every title you mentioned lol except original BR

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Then I urge you to get the original Blade Runner. The remixed sound makes it like a different movie and it is so well done that you will literally gasp with amazement at some (many) of the scenes. Well, I did
kbarnes701 is offline  
post #52353 of 55029 Old 11-20-2018, 05:15 AM
Senior Member
 
camd5pt0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 389
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 284 Post(s)
Liked: 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
I used something similar wrapped black felt, hot gluing the folded flaps in the back. Good luck.

Great for eliminating flutter echo. Any standing waves might take some extra care but that should get you off to good start, helping the room sound less like a box.
Thanks can you PM me pics of your panels??

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Home theatre: 65" Samsung KS8500 /Sony UBD-X800 / Xbox One X Project Scorpio / PS4 Pro
Denon AVR-X4400H 7.1.4 config. / Plantronics Dolby Atmos RIG 600LX
Pioneer Andrew Jones L,R,C,SL,SR,SBL,SBR / (4) Polk Atrium 5 series FHL,FHR,RHL,RHR
SVS PB-2000 w/ SVS SoundPath Subwoofer Isolation System
camd5pt0 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #52354 of 55029 Old 11-20-2018, 06:47 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Molon_Labe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 2,144
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3206 Post(s)
Liked: 3852
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
If the FR measures the same for each speaker, where are so-called 'timbral differences' coming from
I have a Civic and a Porsche that dyno 425 rear wheel horsepower and 490ft pounds of torque. Curb weight is the same for both vehicles. The dyno sheet shows they are identical and measurements prove it. However, track times and drive-ability are miles apart. The Honda Civic owner will clamor equality as they wave their dyno sheets publicly. The Porsche owner simply smiles and drives off. I know you own a Porsche (or did), so this example should resonate with you (pun intended). Measurements only tell part of the story.
sdurani likes this.

AVP - Trinnov Alt16
Speakers - JBL M2 (3), JBL 708p (4), JBL 705i (4)
Subs - (2) Deep Sea Sound 24" & (2) Dual Stereo Integrity 18"
Video - Sony 55es
Screen - Seymour 127" A/T 16:9

Last edited by Molon_Labe; 11-20-2018 at 07:48 AM.
Molon_Labe is online now  
post #52355 of 55029 Old 11-20-2018, 07:31 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 27,565
Mentioned: 192 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6970 Post(s)
Liked: 5951
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
I think that this points to the entire issue of timbral matching being so overblown.
Overblown for you. But not for others. Or do you not believe that's possible?
Quote:
That is why I expressed surprise earlier at the amount of 'airtime' it regularly seems to get.
If you are unwilling to accept that other people have different hearing acuity and priorities than you, then you'll continue to be surprised when they keep discussing a topic that you believe is a non-issue.

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #52356 of 55029 Old 11-20-2018, 08:02 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 138
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked: 45
Timber matching is, among many ideals within our hobby, important. However, it is one of many areas where compromises may be required. Ever speaker has a sound signature regardless of how neutral manufacturers claim they are.

Take a musical instrument as an example. A cornet and a trumpet laying the exact same note will sound a bit different though they are very very similar. A good or bad analogy .... dunno. But there simply are differences between speakers.

Does it matter? Depends on who you speak to. For me, the amount of money, time and effort I have invested to achieve the best sound reproduction possible makes this and many other details extremely important. But, as awesome as my system and room performance is, it is full of compromises!
Teddydog likes this.
jazzrock is offline  
post #52357 of 55029 Old 11-20-2018, 08:06 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 14,359
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4467 Post(s)
Liked: 2520
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzrock View Post
Timber matching is, among many ideals within our hobby, important. However, it is one of many areas where compromises may be required. Every speaker has a sound signature regardless of how neutral manufacturers claim they are.

Take a musical instrument as an example. A cornet and a trumpet laying the exact same note will sound a bit different though they are very very similar. A good or bad analogy .... dunno. But there simply are differences between speakers.

Does it matter? Depends on who you speak to. For me, the amount of money, time and effort I have invested to achieve the best sound reproduction possible makes this and many other details extremely important. But, as awesome as my system and room performance is, it is full of compromises!



It sure is important to me. If you CAN use speakers that are very similar to each other sonically, then that is the best strategy. Can you put EXACTLY the same speaker EVERYWHERE in a theater room? Usually not, but if you're in the right ballpark, the cohesiveness of an immersive soundtrack really comes together.
kbarnes701 and jazzrock like this.

Listen up, studios! Dolby Atmos Lite™ print-outs must stop!!
Dan Hitchman is offline  
post #52358 of 55029 Old 11-20-2018, 08:26 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Molon_Labe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 2,144
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3206 Post(s)
Liked: 3852
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzrock View Post
Timber matching is, among many proven best practices within our hobby, important.
Fixed it for you

In all seriousness, this really wasn't debated until the advent of having speakers on the ceilings. Prior to Atmos, this was a very well known best practice. Simply google 5.1 SACD and see all the recommendations to have matching speakers. With surrounds now being object based combined with improved mixing/sound engineering, the days of ambient sounds only in surround channels is over. Every speaker is fair game for the same content i.e. voices, explosions, movie scores, foot steps, etc

Now, due to size limitations and limited speaker offerings from manufacturers, many in the community have flagged this as "it is no longer important" or "marketing hype" What changed other than our limited options to be able to adhere to the standard? As you stated, compromises are often required due to room, budget, and product offerings. However, we shouldn't throw out well known best practices because we can no longer adhere to those practices. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water in an attempt to defend your setup. This post was not directed at you or anyone in general. Just piggybacking on your thoughts.
jazzrock likes this.

AVP - Trinnov Alt16
Speakers - JBL M2 (3), JBL 708p (4), JBL 705i (4)
Subs - (2) Deep Sea Sound 24" & (2) Dual Stereo Integrity 18"
Video - Sony 55es
Screen - Seymour 127" A/T 16:9
Molon_Labe is online now  
post #52359 of 55029 Old 11-20-2018, 08:30 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 27,229
Mentioned: 127 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7738 Post(s)
Liked: 7024
Quote:
Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
I have a Civic and a Porsche that dyno 425 rear wheel horsepower and 490ft pounds of torque. Curb weight is the same for both vehicles. The dyno sheet shows they are identical and measurements prove it. However, track times and drive-ability are miles apart. The Honda Civic owner will clamor equality as they wave their dyno sheets publicly. The Porsche owner simply smiles and drives off. I know you own a Porsche (or did), so this example should resonate with you (pun intended). Measurements only tell part of the story.
Not really sure that car analogies work when it comes to sound reproduction. It's a bit like saying you have two buddies, one is 6ft6in tall and weighs 200 pounds and the other is 5ft6in tall and also weighs 200 pounds, so they must be identical. 'Timbre' means frequency response and if the FR is identical then it is identical. Your analogy only works if you say that both vehicles do 0-60 in 4.2 seconds - if they do, then as far as acceleration from standstill to 60mph is concerned, there is zero difference. Otherwise what you seem to be saying is that two speakers might have the same FR yet be of different size, design, weight etc. That woud make them very different, but not as far as FR is concerned.

Everything which can be heard can be measured. Not everything which can be measured can be heard.
kbarnes701 is offline  
post #52360 of 55029 Old 11-20-2018, 08:34 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 27,229
Mentioned: 127 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7738 Post(s)
Liked: 7024
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Overblown for you. But not for others. Or do you not believe that's possible? If you are unwilling to accept that other people have different hearing acuity and priorities than you, then you'll continue to be surprised when they keep discussing a topic that you believe is a non-issue.
At least a good part of any forum is that people express their opinions. My opinion is that most of the discussion about timbre matching is overblown. Your opinion of course may be different. If you are unwilling to accept that other people have different opinions and priorities than you, then you'll continue to be confused when they keep discussing their opinions which differ from yours.
kbarnes701 is offline  
post #52361 of 55029 Old 11-20-2018, 08:39 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Molon_Labe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 2,144
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3206 Post(s)
Liked: 3852
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
'Timbre' means frequency response and if the FR is identical then it is identical.
Timbre is not frequency response - where are you getting this from? If that were true, every speaker would sound the same. Timbre is the tonal quality of the sound. The definition is "the character or quality of a musical sound or voice as distinct from its pitch and intensity." Two different trumpets from two different manufacturers produce the same frequency. Will they sound the same? What if they are played by two different musicians? We are miles apart on this and I know you will never concede We will just have to agree to disagree. But timbre and frequency response are not the same. This is not opinion.
Dan Hitchman likes this.

AVP - Trinnov Alt16
Speakers - JBL M2 (3), JBL 708p (4), JBL 705i (4)
Subs - (2) Deep Sea Sound 24" & (2) Dual Stereo Integrity 18"
Video - Sony 55es
Screen - Seymour 127" A/T 16:9

Last edited by Molon_Labe; 11-20-2018 at 09:06 AM.
Molon_Labe is online now  
post #52362 of 55029 Old 11-20-2018, 09:00 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 27,565
Mentioned: 192 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6970 Post(s)
Liked: 5951
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
If you are unwilling to accept that other people have different opinions and priorities than you, then you'll continue to be confused when they keep discussing their opinions which differ from yours.
Where did I say I was confused or surprised? You said you were surprised. I explained why.

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #52363 of 55029 Old 11-20-2018, 10:02 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 27,229
Mentioned: 127 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7738 Post(s)
Liked: 7024
Quote:
Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
Timbre is not frequency response - where are you getting this from? If that were true, every speaker would sound the same. Timbre is the tonal quality of the sound. The definition is "the character or quality of a musical sound or voice as distinct from its pitch and intensity." Two different trumpets from two different manufacturers produce the same frequency. Will they sound the same? What if they are played by two different musicians? We are miles apart on this and I know you will never concede We will just have to agree to disagree. But timbre and frequency response are not the same. This is not opinion.
Ideally every speaker *would* sound the same, since the main goal has to be absolute transparency to the source. Trumpets etc are creators of sound not reproducers, so that is just a red herring. And if the two trumpets measure the same, they will sound the same. Sound reproduction isn't some sport of 'magic'. Also, if you are trying to convince me that speakers should have 'a sound of their own' you are right -- we will never agree.
unretarded likes this.
kbarnes701 is offline  
post #52364 of 55029 Old 11-20-2018, 10:54 AM
Senior Member
 
mzs22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Iowa
Posts: 344
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 226 Post(s)
Liked: 91
Not sure if this has been discussed before but is John Wick bluray not dolby atmos?
mzs22 is offline  
post #52365 of 55029 Old 11-20-2018, 10:55 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 27,565
Mentioned: 192 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6970 Post(s)
Liked: 5951
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzs22 View Post
Not sure if this has been discussed before but is John Wick bluray not dolby atmos?
John Wick Blu-ray is Atmos (and a good Atmos mix at that).
RxpSGR, galonzo and stikle like this.

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #52366 of 55029 Old 11-20-2018, 11:00 AM
Senior Member
 
mzs22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Iowa
Posts: 344
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 226 Post(s)
Liked: 91
I started watching it and only had the option for dolby digital
mzs22 is offline  
post #52367 of 55029 Old 11-20-2018, 11:08 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 27,565
Mentioned: 192 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6970 Post(s)
Liked: 5951
Was it a rental?
unretarded likes this.

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #52368 of 55029 Old 11-20-2018, 11:10 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 29,330
Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4667 Post(s)
Liked: 4852
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzs22 View Post
I started watching it and only had the option for dolby digital
You probably have a rental copy -- John Wick is Lionsgate and they cripple rental discs with basic 5.1 DD tracks.
galonzo likes this.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is offline  
post #52369 of 55029 Old 11-20-2018, 11:11 AM
Senior Member
 
mzs22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Iowa
Posts: 344
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 226 Post(s)
Liked: 91
No rental, I double checked my settings also and put in John Wick 2 and that was in atmos. The option is not coming up in the disc menu
mzs22 is offline  
post #52370 of 55029 Old 11-20-2018, 11:13 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 29,330
Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4667 Post(s)
Liked: 4852
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzs22 View Post
No rental, I double checked my settings also and put in John Wick 2 and that was in atmos. The option is not coming up in the disc menu
Where did you get the disc? If you bought it used online you could have gotten a former rental disc.
galonzo likes this.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is offline  
post #52371 of 55029 Old 11-20-2018, 11:18 AM
Senior Member
 
mzs22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Iowa
Posts: 344
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 226 Post(s)
Liked: 91
Double checked the disc, it was switched with the the regular dvd, did not know both were included!! Oops
galonzo and stikle like this.
mzs22 is offline  
post #52372 of 55029 Old 11-20-2018, 11:48 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Selden Ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: upstate NY
Posts: 14,826
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4808 Post(s)
Liked: 2845
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzs22 View Post
No rental, I double checked my settings also and put in John Wick 2 and that was in atmos. The option is not coming up in the disc menu
Double check which disc you put in the player. If you bought a dual-disc package, it's easy to accidentally put the wrong disc in the player. Also, most disc players will let you step through the various soundtracks if you've selectged the wrong one by accident.

Selden

Marantz SR7009 avr + MM9000 amp --> Atmos 7.1.4
Fronts=NHT 2.9+AC2, FH+TM=DefTech PM1000, LCR+TM amped
Selden Ball is offline  
post #52373 of 55029 Old 11-20-2018, 12:00 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 29,330
Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4667 Post(s)
Liked: 4852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Double check which disc you put in the player. If you bought a dual-disc package, it's easy to accidentally put the wrong disc in the player. Also, most disc players will let you step through the various soundtracks if you've selectged the wrong one by accident.
Very convenient to swoop in with that answer 30 minutes after he revealed that's what happened
mrtickleuk and unretarded like this.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is offline  
post #52374 of 55029 Old 11-20-2018, 12:05 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Selden Ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: upstate NY
Posts: 14,826
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4808 Post(s)
Liked: 2845
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Very convenient to swoop in with that answer 30 minutes after he revealed that's what happened
For some reason I didn't see that admission. Oh, well. A reminder to us all....

Selden

Marantz SR7009 avr + MM9000 amp --> Atmos 7.1.4
Fronts=NHT 2.9+AC2, FH+TM=DefTech PM1000, LCR+TM amped
Selden Ball is offline  
post #52375 of 55029 Old 11-20-2018, 12:29 PM
Senior Member
 
mzs22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Iowa
Posts: 344
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 226 Post(s)
Liked: 91
Was just going to order the 4k version because they have it for $10. Looks like some decent deals on 4k movies for black friday
mzs22 is offline  
post #52376 of 55029 Old 11-20-2018, 02:33 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
helvetica bold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,348
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1596 Post(s)
Liked: 968
Game of thrones Atmos promo

Are they referring to the Disk version or will HBO broadcast in Atmos?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LG65C9, XBOX ONE X, PS4PRO, APPLE 4K, SONY STRDN1070, TAKE CLASSIC 5.1
helvetica bold is online now  
post #52377 of 55029 Old 11-20-2018, 03:30 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
stikle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: The Sovereign State of Eastern Oregon
Posts: 1,529
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 946 Post(s)
Liked: 1111
Dunno...but all seasons on disc are already out in Atmos. Maybe next year's final season will be in Atmos when it's broadcast.
galonzo likes this.
stikle is offline  
post #52378 of 55029 Old 11-20-2018, 03:31 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 163
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
Game of thrones Atmos promo
https://youtu.be/a4bbXGjVEw8

Are they referring to the Disk version or will HBO broadcast in Atmos?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
Game of thrones Atmos promo
https://youtu.be/a4bbXGjVEw8

Are they referring to the Disk version or will HBO broadcast in Atmos?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Looks like it's for the first two seasons on blu ray.

EDIT scratch that... First 6 seasons on blu ray

Last edited by ctsv510; 11-20-2018 at 03:51 PM.
ctsv510 is offline  
post #52379 of 55029 Old 11-21-2018, 07:33 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by stikle View Post
Dunno...but all seasons on disc are already out in Atmos. Maybe next year's final season will be in Atmos when it's broadcast.
They only started using Atmos in the fifth season. The steelbook reissues are all in Atmos, but the older season 1 to 4 discs aren't.
G4n0nD0rf is offline  
post #52380 of 55029 Old 11-21-2018, 08:00 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
steelman1991's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,740
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 454 Post(s)
Liked: 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by G4n0nD0rf View Post
They only started using Atmos in the fifth season. The steelbook reissues are all in Atmos, but the older season 1 to 4 discs aren't.

Incorrect - Seasons 1-6 are available in Atmos on Bluray disc and have been for some time.
steelman1991 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off