The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 1755 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #52621 of 58637 Old 12-10-2018, 03:08 PM
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Hello all -- I have a question about speaker placement for my theater, which I would like to upgrade to Atmos (see link at end of this post). I would like to use Klipsch KS-7800's (or similar) for the ceiling mounted speakers, as that is what I have for my rear speakers and surrounds. I tend to sit in the second row; this is under the rear soffit, which projects 3 feet into the room. So where would be the best placement of the ceiling speakers, and how would I best orient the tweeters since they are rectangular shaped speakers? Thanks in advance!
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post #52622 of 58637 Old 12-11-2018, 02:08 AM
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Hi Guys,

Cross posting from the Denon AVR thread, thought I would ask you guys too. Just have a quick question. I have a Denon X4400 currently setup in a 7.2.2 config. My AVR has 11 channel processing, but can only power 9 channels. I am looking to get a stereo amp to power the final two Atmos speakers. I was looking at using something like this. Would this do? I asked the store to recommend one and they suggested a more expensive Denon one as the tonal balance may be compromised. I really don't want to spend more than I have to so thought I would see what you guys think. It is to be used to power up-firing ELAC modules, they will be the rear modules FWIW.

Thanks in advance!
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post #52623 of 58637 Old 12-11-2018, 02:23 AM
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....they suggested a more expensive Denon one as the tonal balance may be compromised.
No, it won't compromise any tonal balance!!!!
You may use that Topaz amp, is fine!
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post #52624 of 58637 Old 12-11-2018, 02:26 AM
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post #52625 of 58637 Old 12-11-2018, 03:46 AM
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No, it won't compromise any tonal balance!!!!
You may use that Topaz amp, is fine!
Thank you. That's what I was thinking, it's only for a pair of rear Atmos modules so I didn't think it would make a difference.

Edit: Just while we are on the subject, how do I connect the two amps together. I was working on the assumption that I connect the extra speakers to the standard ports on the AVR and connect a pair of RCA cables to the 2 channel amp. Is this right?
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Last edited by Markitron; 12-11-2018 at 04:02 AM.
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post #52626 of 58637 Old 12-11-2018, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Markitron View Post
Thank you. That's what I was thinking, it's only for a pair of rear Atmos modules so I didn't think it would make a difference.

Edit: Just while we are on the subject, how do I connect the two amps together. I was working on the assumption that I connect the extra speakers to the standard ports on the AVR and connect a pair of RCA cables to the 2 channel amp. Is this right?
Amplifiers don't have 'tone'. If they do, then they're junk. An amp is intended to take the input signal and deliver it to the output unchanged other than in amplitude. If the amp is affecting the 'tone' (frequency response) then it isn't worth considering anyway. So the advice given is correct - choose any half-decent amp that has the power you need for the task at hand and you're good to go. Applies to all the speakers not just the overheads.
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post #52627 of 58637 Old 12-11-2018, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Markitron View Post
Thank you. That's what I was thinking, it's only for a pair of rear Atmos modules so I didn't think it would make a difference.

Edit: Just while we are on the subject, how do I connect the two amps together. I was working on the assumption that I connect the extra speakers to the standard ports on the AVR and connect a pair of RCA cables to the 2 channel amp. Is this right?
You connect the relevant line outputs on the AVR to the inputs on the additional amplifier and then connect the relevant speakers to the speaker terminals on the additional amplifier. Then you need to configure the AVR so that it knows what you have done.

Your AVR will have a 'pre-out' section marked on the back. Find the pre-out that is marked Rear Height Left (or whatever) and connect an RCA lead from that pre-out to the Left input on the new amplifier. Do the same for the pre-out marked Rear Height Right, this time connecting the lead to the Right input on the new amplifier. Then connect the Rear Height Left speaker to the Left speaker post on the new amplifier and the Rear Height Right speaker to the Right speaker post on the new amplifier.

Next you will need to configure your AVR via its menus so that it knows that you are running the Rear Hight (or whatever) pair via an external amp. Finally, run your room correction software (eg Audyssey) again so that it can include the new speakers.
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post #52628 of 58637 Old 12-11-2018, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Markitron View Post
......how do I connect the two amps together. I was working on the assumption that I connect the extra speakers to the standard ports on the AVR and connect a pair of RCA cables to the 2 channel amp. Is this right?
Use the X4400H pre-outputs to connect the Rear Dolby L+R channels from X4400H to the external amp (Topaz in your case) using a RCA cable.
Change your amp assign in X4400H to your actual setup (7.2.4) and redo the Audyssey calibration.
Enjoy.
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post #52629 of 58637 Old 12-11-2018, 04:30 AM
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Amplifiers don't have 'tone'. If they do, then they're junk. An amp is intended to take the input signal and deliver it to the output unchanged other than in amplitude. If the amp is affecting the 'tone' (frequency response) then it isn't worth considering anyway. So the advice given is correct - choose any half-decent amp that has the power you need for the task at hand and you're good to go. Applies to all the speakers not just the overheads.
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Use the X4400H pre-outputs to connect the Rear Dolby L+R channels from X4400H to the external amp (Topaz in your case) using a RCA cable.
Change your amp assign in X4400H to your actual setup (7.2.4) and redo the Audyssey calibration.
Enjoy.

Thanks guys, gonna order those parts now. Is there a massive variation in the quality of RCA cables? Will a relatively cheap one do a decent enough job?
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post #52630 of 58637 Old 12-11-2018, 04:37 AM
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Thanks guys, gonna order those parts now. Is there a massive variation in the quality of RCA cables? Will a relatively cheap one do a decent enough job?
Monoprice or Amazon Basics are what I use. Never had a moment's trouble with either. Just look for cables that are mechanically sound (ie have good, reliable connectors on the ends).
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post #52631 of 58637 Old 12-11-2018, 04:46 AM
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Monoprice or Amazon Basics are what I use. Never had a moment's trouble with either. Just look for cables that are mechanically sound (ie have good, reliable connectors on the ends).
If Amazon basics work then that will do me nicely, thanks again!
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post #52632 of 58637 Old 12-11-2018, 08:59 AM
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This is certainly what my wife sees when she looks back there.

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post #52633 of 58637 Old 12-11-2018, 11:36 AM
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Amplifiers don't have 'tone'. If they do, then they're junk. An amp is intended to take the input signal and deliver it to the output unchanged other than in amplitude. If the amp is affecting the 'tone' (frequency response) then it isn't worth considering anyway. So the advice given is correct - choose any half-decent amp that has the power you need for the task at hand and you're good to go. Applies to all the speakers not just the overheads.

Yes, but construction has an impact on noise, which has a huge impact on image and clarity delivered to speakers. I was using a Crown XLS 2500 amp with Pro-ject turntable and tube pre amp and was pretty happy with it. The Crown is a very capable and powerful amp, no questioning. But when I switched to a Peachtree integrated amp, I could clearly hear a difference in those departments, along with tighter, more controlled bass.
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post #52634 of 58637 Old 12-12-2018, 03:38 AM
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Yes, but construction has an impact on noise, which has a huge impact on image and clarity delivered to speakers. I was using a Crown XLS 2500 amp with Pro-ject turntable and tube pre amp and was pretty happy with it. The Crown is a very capable and powerful amp, no questioning. But when I switched to a Peachtree integrated amp, I could clearly hear a difference in those departments, along with tighter, more controlled bass.
I'm sure you could
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post #52635 of 58637 Old 12-12-2018, 07:57 AM
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Same can be said of Ferrari's, but that doesn't mean they are in danger of being discontinued.

Movies are now being mastered with object oriented methods. It is a superior process of mixing and it isn't going anywhere. The home user that puts speakers on their ceiling is only the proverbial tip of an industry iceberg. Dolby Atmos's/DTS:X's success or failure is not dependent on home consumer adoption. It is the industry standard which home user's can take advantage of if they choose. Atmos has no additional cost of entry anymore. Entry level receivers from all the major vendors provide Atmos processing onboard now. It is up to the individual to take advantage of the additional channels or forgo them.
True, but when you hear of major suppliers considering getting out of the AV receiver business, it's concerning. Oppo bailed, and so few are really pushing the envelope.

It's all about soundbars and streaming, it seems. Screens are getting smaller for people. Television viewership is shrinking. Movie releases are gathering smaller audiences.

I hope it's just a blip on the radar, and turns back our way. I have no idea why more people aren't interested in our hobby.

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post #52636 of 58637 Old 12-12-2018, 08:15 AM
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Monoprice or Amazon Basics are what I use. Never had a moment's trouble with either. Just look for cables that are mechanically sound (ie have good, reliable connectors on the ends).
I'd suggest getting a good amp for your front L+R as that has the most heavy lifting and is most demanding.
If the receiver has the option use those 9 channels for the remaining.
Seems silly to waste an amp on 2 atmos when you can use it on your mains and let a receiver handle the atmos.

Unless that Denon model doesn't have that flexibility of amp assignment....

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post #52637 of 58637 Old 12-12-2018, 10:46 AM
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Just wondering if you guys think dolby atmos will be around for good?
It's just a flash in the pan. The next big thing will be when quadraphonic LPs make a come back. There's a big resurgence in vinyl sales, if you haven't heard, so it should be any day now.

This is how to properly steer music around, left to right and front to back: in analog. Pink Floyd used this device in the late 60's early 70's:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadra...k_Floyd_VA.jpg
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post #52638 of 58637 Old 12-12-2018, 12:42 PM
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I never imagined the survival of vinyl let alone its reemergence to vogue status. If vinyl can survive and thrive, anything is possible
I think part of vinyl's attraction is its physicality: you get to manipulate the tone arm and can see the disc spinning on its platter. You can see and feel what's happening when you upgrade and adjust the pieces of the playback device. This is unlike CDs and digital audio files, which hide all that from you. It's like the difference from an old-style muscle car and a modern sedan.

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post #52639 of 58637 Old 12-12-2018, 11:44 PM
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I have a 5.1.2 Atmos set up with upfiring fronts. It took about 10 configurations before I got the upfiring speakers to actually make things sound like they were coming from above. I’m surprised how well it works. MI Fallout is incredible! The problem is, I had to pull my couch about 3 feet off the wall to hit the sweet spot. I’m in a condo and I don’t have a lot of room to work with so those 3 feet really cut into the size of my living room. This has made me realize I need to just go ahead and put some speakers on the ceiling. So, my question is can I mount my Sony upfiring speakers on the ceiling? The manual for them lists 3 ways to use them and on the ceiling is not one of them. I can’t do in ceiling speakers so hopefully these will suffice.
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post #52640 of 58637 Old 12-13-2018, 09:51 AM
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I have a 5.1.2 Atmos set up with upfiring fronts. It took about 10 configurations before I got the upfiring speakers to actually make things sound like they were coming from above. I’m surprised how well it works. MI Fallout is incredible! The problem is, I had to pull my couch about 3 feet off the wall to hit the sweet spot. I’m in a condo and I don’t have a lot of room to work with so those 3 feet really cut into the size of my living room. This has made me realize I need to just go ahead and put some speakers on the ceiling. So, my question is can I mount my Sony upfiring speakers on the ceiling? The manual for them lists 3 ways to use them and on the ceiling is not one of them. I can’t do in ceiling speakers so hopefully these will suffice.
We need to know the model number of these enabled speakers to give you the right info.

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post #52641 of 58637 Old 12-13-2018, 10:28 AM
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So, my question is can I mount my Sony upfiring speakers on the ceiling? The manual for them lists 3 ways to use them and on the ceiling is not one of them.
I've got a friend that bought some upfiring speakers. I don't believe they were Sony. He wasn't overly impressed with the results he got in his room. Just for testing purposes, he figured out a way to mount them on the ceiling and says the improvement was substantial. I haven't been back to that side of the state since he's done this so I haven't heard it myself.

Upfiring speakers are not designed to be mounted on the ceiling, so your results may vary if you attempt this. Personally, I think it's worth giving a try because...why not?
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post #52642 of 58637 Old 12-13-2018, 11:42 AM
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I played around with speakers on the ceiling using command strips to test out prior to putting in ceiling speakers in. Try it out.
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post #52643 of 58637 Old 12-13-2018, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by EyeWasAbducted View Post
I have a 5.1.2 Atmos set up with upfiring fronts. It took about 10 configurations before I got the upfiring speakers to actually make things sound like they were coming from above. I’m surprised how well it works. MI Fallout is incredible! The problem is, I had to pull my couch about 3 feet off the wall to hit the sweet spot. I’m in a condo and I don’t have a lot of room to work with so those 3 feet really cut into the size of my living room. This has made me realize I need to just go ahead and put some speakers on the ceiling. So, my question is can I mount my Sony upfiring speakers on the ceiling? The manual for them lists 3 ways to use them and on the ceiling is not one of them. I can’t do in ceiling speakers so hopefully these will suffice.
You'd been better off tilting those speakers and wedging them instead of moving the couch
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post #52644 of 58637 Old 12-13-2018, 12:13 PM
 
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How do you plan to cable -5- receivers to get 9.2.6?
https://www.highdefdigest.com/blog/w...tion-Chart.jpg

https://www.highdefdigest.com/blog/d...-7-1-4-part-1/

3 of them for 7.1.6 Scatmos

another two for front wide.

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post #52645 of 58637 Old 12-13-2018, 01:26 PM
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That's a lot of extra gear to accomplish what you could do with two receivers and a $100 amp.

But like most things, there is more than one way to accomplish your goal. I thought my wiring and configuration was complex....

Hopefully it goes smoothly for you and you enjoy the results.

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post #52646 of 58637 Old 12-13-2018, 10:48 PM
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Scatmos?

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post #52647 of 58637 Old 12-14-2018, 06:33 AM
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I don't understand how is this suppose to work?

What sound processor for Atmos will u be using, u need something in this story to decode signal from source and send it to receivers.

Which 13.2 processor are u gonna be using
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post #52648 of 58637 Old 12-14-2018, 08:23 AM
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Scatmos?
Scott Simonian's version of Atmos (Extended).

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I don't understand how is this suppose to work?

What sound processor for Atmos will u be using, u need something in this story to decode signal from source and send it to receivers.

Which 13.2 processor are u gonna be using
He's not using a 13.2 processor, he's going to attempt to wire 5 different AVRs together to achieve that.

I'm doing the same thing with 2 Atmos AVRs and a stereo amp.

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post #52649 of 58637 Old 12-14-2018, 09:44 AM
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Can someone explain how?

If I have one source, how r u splitting that signal to two acts, and then splitting between them?

I'm interested in doing this, but how

At least receivers are cheap nowadays
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post #52650 of 58637 Old 12-14-2018, 11:11 AM
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Can someone explain how?
Credit goes to @Nalleh for helping me down this path. The original thread is HERE.

I just created a final wiring diagram. I left the image a large size for clarity and posted it in my Build Thread as to not clutter up this one.
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