The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 18 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #511 of 55121 Old 07-06-2014, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by nucky View Post
I heard it yesterday, it was the new transformers it sounded ok, but not that impressed. It's not in the same league as my 5.1 home set up.
And here they say the irony generation has gone out of fashion...but one man just won't give up!

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post #512 of 55121 Old 07-06-2014, 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Why not just have top speakers that comply with Atmos? There are upscaling modes coming out that work with Atmos' speaker layout. Whether or not they will be included in these first gen products, is up for debate I guess. I just don't see the need for doubling up on ceiling speaker locations for Atmos and a post-processing sound format that is probably now outdated.
That's my thinking too. I am repurposing my existing height speakers, which I use all the time with PLIIz and sometimes Neo:X, to Atmos top speakers. My feeling is that once I have Atmos, I won't find PLIIz and/or Neo:X very fulfilling. And in any event, Atmos upmixing will, I am sure, be at least as good as the current PLIIz/Neo:X upmixing. In fact, I can't really see why Dolby would even continue with PLIIz once Atmos becomes widely available.
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post #513 of 55121 Old 07-06-2014, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by plissken99 View Post
I've always wanted to do that. I've had several theater rooms, all in rent houses, so I make do. This will be my 1st opportunity for acoustic perfection. Did it cost an arm and a leg?
You can do entry level or kick it up, let us know how it works out with Atmos.
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post #514 of 55121 Old 07-06-2014, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by yadfgp View Post
So please for the love of God, has anyone here actually watched a movie in Atmos anywhere and can share their experience?
Here around the Los Angeles area there are about 15 Atmos-equipped theatres within driving distance. I've seen over two dozen movies in Atmos over the last couple years, which isn't a lot considering some months have 4-5 Atmos releases.

It still comes down to the mix. A handful of the movies I've seen really highlighted the unique capabilities of Atmos (smoother panning, precise placement, overhead imaging). The rest sound like something that could have been done as discrete 9.1 or 11.1 mixes. But that's still a step up from 5.1 or 7.1 mixes.

There's no mistaking an immersive 3D bubble of sound compared to a 2D ring of sound around you. Even on mediocre mixes, Atmos still starts from that advantage.

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post #515 of 55121 Old 07-06-2014, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by yadfgp View Post
Quick question...........!!!!!!!!

Has anyone here actually heard Atmos in use?

I'm digging through post after post just trying to find someone that has and I can't find anyone after like 10 pages and I'm getting sick of looking. Tons and tons of posts on setups and everything else. But it doesn't seem as though anyone has actually experienced Atmos.

So please for the love of God, has anyone here actually watched a movie in Atmos anywhere and can share their experience?

I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks.
The best mix I've heard so far is "Gravity." A really, really impressive example of what you cannot do with typical channel based surround formats. Every speaker in the auditorium was utilized.

Listen up, studios! Dolby Atmos Lite™ print-outs must stop!!
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post #516 of 55121 Old 07-06-2014, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by nucky View Post
I heard it yesterday, it was the new transformers it sounded ok, but not that impressed. It's not in the same league as my 5.1 home set up.
You probably went to a theater that was playing the wrong track or played it too loud, so that the horn speakers started getting screechy. Everyone who has gone to see Transformers 4 has mentioned how awesome it sounded in Atmos (though, they can't all say the same for the movie itself).

Listen up, studios! Dolby Atmos Lite™ print-outs must stop!!
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post #517 of 55121 Old 07-06-2014, 08:23 AM
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Hey guys, there is a theatrical Atmos thread FWIW. I don't mind the slight derailment here, but there's a WEALTH of useful information and insight over there.
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post #518 of 55121 Old 07-06-2014, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
You probably went to a theater that was playing the wrong track or played it too loud, so that the horn speakers started getting screechy. Everyone who has gone to see Transformers 4 has mentioned how awesome it sounded in Atmos (though, they can't all say the same for the movie itself).
I said it sounded ok but compared to my set up it has not got a look in. And it was the right sound format, if I had to compare it to any other cinema well yes it was very good, but it did not blow me away.

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post #519 of 55121 Old 07-06-2014, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by DaJoJo View Post
you be wanting the same speakers as the rears , timbre matched. you can hang any speaker on a wire or pole from the ceiling, so that can't be an issue.
I was just suggesting these based on looks and ease of mounting because they are designed to be hung like those pendant lights. They would have a much higher WAF as well compared to a hanging box.

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Originally Posted by bkeeler10 View Post
I work for SoundTube. Just in case you have any questions :-)

I have to agree though that ideally you would have timbre-matched speakers all around. While SoundTube's premium line of pendant speakers is a good-sounding speaker, it probably wouldn't be ideal except in an all-SoundTube system.
Cool, thanks for chiming in! I don't have vaulted ceilings myself, just trying to come up with a solution for those that do. Does Soundtube have in-wall or on-wall speakers that are timber matched to the pendants?
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post #520 of 55121 Old 07-06-2014, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Orbitron View Post
You can do entry level or kick it up, let us know how it works out with Atmos.
http://www.rivesaudio.com/services/servframe1.html
Hmm, not as cheap as I'd hoped, not as bad as I'd feared, perfect.


Another headache inducing thought about Dolby Atmos, I was so proud when I added the Emotiva XPA-5 amp a few years ago, the thought of buying amps for up to 32 speakers... yikes.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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post #521 of 55121 Old 07-06-2014, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by plissken99 View Post
Hmm, not as cheap as I'd hoped, not as bad as I'd feared, perfect.


Another headache inducing thought about Dolby Atmos, I was so proud when I added the Emotiva XPA-5 amp a few years ago, the thought of buying amps for up to 32 speakers... yikes.
4 of these and you're covered.
https://www.nuforce.com/index.php?op...mps&Itemid=342

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post #522 of 55121 Old 07-06-2014, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by plissken99 View Post
Hmm, not as cheap as I'd hoped, not as bad as I'd feared, perfect.


Another headache inducing thought about Dolby Atmos, I was so proud when I added the Emotiva XPA-5 amp a few years ago, the thought of buying amps for up to 32 speakers... yikes.
You can't use 32 speakers (unless you have a real cinema)
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post #523 of 55121 Old 07-06-2014, 12:31 PM
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post #524 of 55121 Old 07-06-2014, 12:31 PM
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re post #514
Last Wednesday I went to the Kirkorian ATMOS in Buena Park for T4 in 3D. all for $8.50.
there were only 3 other people there.
I got my favorite geometrically oriented' viewing position
Visually, that is transfixing stuff, the passive glasses very user friendly.
I've also seen AVATAR in a 2D to 3D "up-vert? using my Panasonic BR on the Mitsy, using active glasses. (Dimensioanl optics) and i tried other 2D flicks as well.
I need a copy of Gravity to play around with.
The passive 3d seems to work better with my trifocals. also lighter (no rechargeable batteries)
But the SOUND ! THAT'S what i want . . . .
who knew (?) that adding speakers on the ceiling would "elevate" the audio experience to a whole new dimension . . .
oh yeah, DOLBY did . . .,
So let's hope for a good full bodied, adaptive, and SMART HT AVR implementation
I've already got the geometry and speakers for the ceiling layout

Wait for it . . . .

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post #525 of 55121 Old 07-06-2014, 12:56 PM
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You can't use 32 speakers (unless you have a real cinema)
Why do you say so? Dolby says you can, and Trinnov introduced a 32 channel processor.
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post #526 of 55121 Old 07-06-2014, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by antoniobiz1 View Post
Why do you say so? Dolby says you can, and Trinnov introduced a 32 channel processor.
Ah yes - I had forgotten about the Trinnov - good catch. I was thinking of the 'lesser' Denons, Onkyos, Pioneers etc.
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post #527 of 55121 Old 07-06-2014, 01:50 PM
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Yeah I think 32 would be overkill for anyone without a crazy massive room, 11.2 should be an elegant sufficiency. Considering Atmos isn't really 32 discrete channels, it just uses however many speakers you have to create a 3D soundscape. That's for the links to those amps Orbitron, I'll keep that in favorites! I'm thinking the Emotiva powering the 5 main channels and the NuForce MCA-18 for the rest.

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post #528 of 55121 Old 07-06-2014, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by plissken99 View Post
Yeah I think 32 would be overkill for anyone without a crazy massive room, 11.2 should be an elegant sufficiency. Considering Atmos isn't really 32 discrete channels, it just uses however many speakers you have to create a 3D soundscape. That's for the links to those amps Orbitron, I'll keep that in favorites! I'm thinking the Emotiva powering the 5 main channels and the NuForce MCA-18 for the rest.
Ah, but the three-axis coordinate object metadata makes them equivalent to channels, and they sound the same too.

I would rather have 13.2. That way you can have a feature of the Atmos commercial layout, the front wide surrounds, and have the four top surrounds operate at the same time.

Listen up, studios! Dolby Atmos Lite™ print-outs must stop!!
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post #529 of 55121 Old 07-06-2014, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Ah, but the three-axis coordinate object metadata makes them equivalent to channels, and they sound the same too.

I would rather have 13.2. That way you can have a feature of the Atmos commercial layout, the front wide surrounds, and have the four top surrounds operate at the same time.
Let him have his 32.
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post #530 of 55121 Old 07-07-2014, 09:33 AM
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Cool, thanks for chiming in! I don't have vaulted ceilings myself, just trying to come up with a solution for those that do. Does Soundtube have in-wall or on-wall speakers that are timber matched to the pendants?
Yeah, if you matched the RS500i pendant with the IW500b in-wall speakers, you'd have a pretty good match. They are 5.25" two way speakers using the same driver set. But the IW500b isn't exactly a barnstormer in the bass department (-3 dB at 72 Hz).

You have to remember that SoundTube makes speakers designed for the commercial audio world. So you're paying for things that you don't need in the residential realm, such as a (bypassable) 70 volt transformer and UL certifications. I'm not sure I would call them hifi either, although they are some of the best sounding speakers of their type in the commercial world.

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post #531 of 55121 Old 07-07-2014, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
I would rather have 13.2. That way you can have a feature of the Atmos commercial layout, the front wide surrounds, and have the four top surrounds operate at the same time.
Yes, that layout seems ideal to me as well. I can envision a few more positions for a typical ~3000 cu ft room (like three pairs of overhead speakers, an additional set of wides between the first wides and the side surrounds, and maybe an additional pair of surround backs, so maybe 19 channels), but something tells me that diminishing returns is quickly kicking in after the 13-channel layout.

It just seems to me that, without the wides, there is a gaping hole between the left and right front channels and their corresponding side surrounds. If one's room is very deep, the same could be said of the gap between the back surrounds and side surrounds too. It's probably easier to create images in that space with wides, especially for those not seated right in the middle.

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post #532 of 55121 Old 07-07-2014, 09:46 AM
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Just put your side surrounds slightly ahead of you instead of behind you and that gap is suddenly filled with glorious sound.
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post #533 of 55121 Old 07-07-2014, 10:55 AM
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Just put your side surrounds slightly ahead of you instead of behind you and that gap is suddenly filled with glorious sound.
True for an Atmos soundtrack where (presumably) the processor knows where your speakers are. Perhaps not so ideal for what will be legacy 5.1 and 7.1 soundtracks though. Plus then you've increased the gap between side surrounds and rear surrounds.

Course, I suppose you could just apply any "Atmos-like" post-processing that they come up with to those legacy soundtracks and perhaps that would ameliorate the problem.

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post #534 of 55121 Old 07-07-2014, 11:20 AM
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No it is quite ideal for legacy content. Just try it for yourself.

Also. Have you been in a movie theater before? All those surrounds.... they go quite a bit ahead of you (unless you like the front row) and that's how film mixers do it. All those surrounds? Just one channel, aside from Atmos.


Been working pretty good for decades now. It's too bad all the CE manufactures have to put up these diagrams of an unrealistic room geometry fooling users into thinking it's required to put them exactly as shown.

It's no wonder people often say, "I don't see any benefit going beyond 5.1" when they keep putting their side surrounds only slightly behind them and then the rear surrounds just even more slightly behind them.
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post #535 of 55121 Old 07-07-2014, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by bkeeler10 View Post
True for an Atmos soundtrack where (presumably) the processor knows where your speakers are. Perhaps not so ideal for what will be legacy 5.1 and 7.1 soundtracks though. Plus then you've increased the gap between side surrounds and rear surrounds.

Course, I suppose you could just apply any "Atmos-like" post-processing that they come up with to those legacy soundtracks and perhaps that would ameliorate the problem.
I think Scott is thinking of the arrangement shown in the diagram - an ITU suggested setup for 7.1. This layout creates a good sense of envelopment.

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post #536 of 55121 Old 07-07-2014, 11:32 AM
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Pretty much but in a perfect diagram it looks much worse than in reality. Obviously one should approach a layout that works for their room. Some can not pull this off but if wides work, this will all while saving you the trouble of more speakers, more amps, the reliance on soon-to-be out-of-date post processing which is also the reason they may have wides to begin with.
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post #537 of 55121 Old 07-07-2014, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
I think Scott is thinking of the arrangement shown in the diagram - an ITU suggested setup for 7.1. This layout creates a good sense of envelopment.

One reason I think a good compromise between having the limited 7.1.4 layout in 1st generation (consumer) Atmos renderers from Onkyo, Pioneer, Denon, and the like and the full 34 outs as in a super expensive processor is something like 13.1 (or 9.1.4) that has the front wide surrounds as well as the four ceiling speakers. Receivers that can't cram that amount of amps in should have active pre-amp outs for the extras (the same renderer, just a variety of built-in amp amounts). It would still be a good number for pre-amps. Then the upper tier models can have even more sophisticated renderers and add the option of a plug in module to increase the individually addressable speaker count.

As it stands it's either a limited Atmos feature set or big bucks premium units that cost more than most cars. There is no "in between" solution.

Listen up, studios! Dolby Atmos Lite™ print-outs must stop!!
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post #538 of 55121 Old 07-07-2014, 11:44 AM
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Hmmm, I guess I have some experimenting to do at home. I rarely get to the theater any more (Atmos now being the only draw for me).

I am aware that in the commercial theater, all those side surrounds, starting perhaps a third of the way back from the screen wall and going all the way to the back wall, all play the same content (except in Atmos of course). I always thought of that as a necessary compromise to adequately cover such a large listening area. So you're telling me that film mixing studios are mixing soundtracks intended for home release using such an array? I find that rather surprising.

I have always assumed that mixers were designing soundtracks for blu-ray/DVD release using an actual 5.1 or 7.1 setup, with the presumption that the five or seven channels will be located in a particular place relative to the listening position. This only makes sense to me. Perhaps I am misinformed (not the first time ). Are mixes intended for home not different from mixes designed for commercial theaters then?

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post #539 of 55121 Old 07-07-2014, 11:59 AM
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That's where things get difficult, at least for those of us playing the home game.

Yes. Some movies ARE mixed for the home. You've probably seen a Disney movie with a "Enhanced for Home Theater" mix. Or something to that effect. This is just an example but many other studios will do what is called a 'nearfield' mix for home video. The next difficult part is to follow the trail back to the studio mixing room where they may or may not have done the nearfield mix. It may have just been some alterations to the original theatrical track or a whole new mix done on conventional speakers that you or I would have and in a home theater type layout.

This is why I don't take these countless 'speaker layout' diagrams as literal. Lol only do that if you are just experiencing owning speakers or surround for your first time.

Generally I like to think of speaker position as a proper vector point for the audio soundfield I want to generate. For me, it means replicating the cinema experience. So with 7.1 sound I think: left, center and right first. Those go where they need to be. Now surrounds... I've got four channels. I want the side surrounds to generate the side imaging. That doesn't necessarily mean it HAS to be directly to my side. It just needs to anchor information to my side wall. Same goes for the rears. Think of the rears in the position we all would put our surrounds at if we just had 5.1 audio. I think most of us would agree that we want those behind us but also separated. So what I do is position the side surrounds to fill in the space between the front left and right and the rear left and right. Awash in awesome surround sound-ness.

Here. I made a really s**tacular paint photo for you to illustrate a more realistic room shape.

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post #540 of 55121 Old 07-07-2014, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
That's where things get difficult, at least for those of us playing the home game.

Yes. Some movies ARE mixed for the home. You've probably seen a Disney movie with a "Enhanced for Home Theater" mix. Or something to that effect. This is just an example but many other studios will do what is called a 'nearfield' mix for home video. The next difficult part is to follow the trail back to the studio mixing room where they may or may not have done the nearfield mix. It may have just been some alterations to the original theatrical track or a whole new mix done on conventional speakers that you or I would have and in a home theater type layout.

This is why I don't take these countless 'speaker layout' diagrams as literal. Lol only do that if you are just experiencing owning speakers or surround for your first time.

Generally I like to think of speaker position as a proper vector point for the audio soundfield I want to generate. For me, it means replicating the cinema experience. So with 7.1 sound I think: left, center and right first. Those go where they need to be. Now surrounds... I've got four channels. I want the side surrounds to generate the side imaging. That doesn't necessarily mean it HAS to be directly to my side. It just needs to anchor information to my side wall. Same goes for the rears. Think of the rears in the position we all would put our surrounds at if we just had 5.1 audio. I think most of us would agree that we want those behind us but also separated. So what I do is position the side surrounds to fill in the space between the front left and right and the rear left and right. Awash in awesome surround sound-ness.

Here. I made a really s**tacular paint photo for you to illustrate a more realistic room shape.


Yep, s**tacular sums it up


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