The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 1817 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #54481 of 54852 Old 05-23-2019, 03:29 PM
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@zeonstar
Fwiw, I would aim them down. That’s the way speakers are designed, and will give the best imaging and overall sound. You wouldn’t listen to your mains 90° off axis right? By all means if you have the time to experiment, go for it and then you’ll be able to have a larger data pool. But in the end, I think pointed down will be best.
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post #54482 of 54852 Old 05-23-2019, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by zeonstar View Post
I started reading your thread. I am not done but already fascinated. Wasn't sure if I should comment about it here or in your thread but I will just briefly say your challenges make mine seem like small time. My challenge is really just limited to do I point my rear speakers down or face them out. That really is the long and short of it. I can't be moving speakers all around in our situation so that limits what I need to worry about, for good or ill. But your setup and what you went through to optimize it is impressive. If I may ask for a spoiler, did you end up using DAES? I haven't read that far yet but I would not of thought those were even an option for you with your ceilings. Likewise for me, we have stucco ceilings which pretty much made me never even consider DAES since they need to bounce sound and it's hard to bounce sound into sound-absorbent material!

As much as I like experimenting, tomorrow will hopefully -- mostly -- be for a few movies. I don't often get the house to myself where I can crank it to the way I like.

I have the Audyssey EQ App on my iPad which lets me save, edit, and rename multiple configurations and then zap them to my Denon. I will be running Audyssey at least twice tomorrow to make a profile with my speakers all set to Heights, and all of them set to Tops.





Thanks for the link. I'd say our room is on the larger side, especially if you consider the dining area is part of it. (thought my "setup" doesn't spill into there.) I sit about 14 feet from my TV. I wish I could be closer but it is what it is.

I actually have your exact TV and I love the Dolby Access app! Though I'm still annoyed they got rid of the best demo it had, that "Core Universe" one. Ugh! But anyway yeah I do have it. I don't think I have actually watched that surfing video you mentioned though.

Fortunately, I actually have no shortage of Dolby Atmos and DTS:X content. In all, I have over 100 movies in those formats. (Mostly Atmos.) I even have a Dolby Atmos and a DTS:X demo disc. . However, I have only watched most of these movies once since purchasing them so I don't really know all that well which movies have the best Atmos that really stands our for evaluating setups. Setup and evaluation aside, I get the feeling I am going to have a much better experience with all them now that I will have Rear Height speakers.
The tv is simply amazing! I'm waiting for the LG fw upgrade for them to bring the gamma curve to what it was before they changed it - the dark scenes with the latest upgrade don't look as good. There is a beta version out there that they are testing and people with advanced display calibration tools showed charts showing it is good to where it was!
To the point in hand....Yes, I agree the Dolby Access app is amazing! And the "Core Universe" clip was my favorite one too, but I discovered the surfing one. It is actually much better in my opinion. Let me know what you think of it. Hopefully you will like it as much as I do. I would use that to test how well your Atmos is running from the front and back heights. Go down to the sports section and choose the one named the wild.
Also when you go to the Photos and Video app in the Home Smart Hub there is a Dolby Vision and Atmos video in the video section. Check out the one with the helicopter. The helicopter flying overhead will be a good measure for you to see how well you hear the heights.
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post #54483 of 54852 Old 05-23-2019, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Polyrythm1k View Post
@zeonstar
Fwiw, I would aim them down. That’s the way speakers are designed, and will give the best imaging and overall sound. You wouldn’t listen to your mains 90° off axis right? By all means if you have the time to experiment, go for it and then you’ll be able to have a larger data pool. But in the end, I think pointed down will be best.
I know, and I do agree but after talking to my wife last night I have ultimately decided to mount them on the wall using the standard bracket that they come with, making them flush against the wall. I know it isn't recommended and I know it isn't ideal. But I do believe I will improve my system with it and that's ultimately what I want. As odd as it sounds, I actually became excited at the prospect of mounting them flush on the wall as the sound would go "out" more and hopefully fill the upper part of my room. Since I have a front sound stage and a rear sound stage, and *Nothing* in the middle (As in no top middle heights) It is my hope that my setup may even full the upper middle of the room. At least a little.

Last night, with the speakers still on their current mounts that point them down, I rotated them up as far as I could. I hit the ceiling so I couldn't completely rotate them up to how they will be when I flush mount them on the wall, but it was just to give me a rough idea. I played a few demos and it still sounded really good to me. I could still clearly hear affects above me. Far more easily than I can with my front heights I might add.

Tonight I am going to properly mount them with the SVS Brackets. (Which my wife made me spray paint white first. Haha!) Then tomorrow I do plan to run audyssey a few times, setting the speakers as Heights and Tops in different configurations.
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post #54484 of 54852 Old 05-23-2019, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by zeonstar View Post
I know, and I do agree but after talking to my wife last night I have ultimately decided to mount them on the wall using the standard bracket that they come with, making them flush against the wall. I know it isn't recommended and I know it isn't ideal. But I do believe I will improve my system with it and that's ultimately what I want. As odd as it sounds, I actually became excited at the prospect of mounting them flush on the wall as the sound would go "out" more and hopefully fill the upper part of my room. Since I have a front sound stage and a rear sound stage, and *Nothing* in the middle (As in no top middle heights) It is my hope that my setup may even full the upper middle of the room. At least a little.



Last night, with the speakers still on their current mounts that point them down, I rotated them up as far as I could. I hit the ceiling so I couldn't completely rotate them up to how they will be when I flush mount them on the wall, but it was just to give me a rough idea. I played a few demos and it still sounded really good to me. I could still clearly hear affects above me. Far more easily than I can with my front heights I might add.



Tonight I am going to properly mount them with the SVS Brackets. (Which my wife made me spray paint white first. Haha!) Then tomorrow I do plan to run audyssey a few times, setting the speakers as Heights and Tops in different configurations.


Well, I do understand your excitement at filling the room. Unfortunately your ears won’t be up there. However, I also understand ya do whatcha gotta do! Good luck, you will indeed have a much improved system. Keep us posted as to your experiments.
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post #54485 of 54852 Old 05-23-2019, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Polyrythm1k View Post
@zeonstar
Fwiw, I would aim them down. That’s the way speakers are designed, and will give the best imaging and overall sound. You wouldn’t listen to your mains 90° off axis right? By all means if you have the time to experiment, go for it and then you’ll be able to have a larger data pool. But in the end, I think pointed down will be best.
I agree that they should be pointed down at an angle such as the link I provided. However if yours are straight down as they appear in your picture then you might want to do some research and experimentation if it sounds better as a ceiling speaker, because it would make sense that the receiver reads what type of speaker it is and knowing that it produces a sound based on what angle the speaker is pointed at.

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post #54486 of 54852 Old 05-23-2019, 04:10 PM
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You all probably know this and I feel partially silly for mentioning it, but the speakers are Prime Elevations so even against the wall they will angle down a bit due to the natural angle on the front of the speaker. That being said, the angle is still way too high and the sound will be technically "shooting over my head" but it is what it is.
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post #54487 of 54852 Old 05-23-2019, 04:23 PM
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I could be wrong but I read his post to mean that you set the speaker type to be what it is (a front height, front top, etc) in the AVR and it does it’s thing with that in mind.
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post #54488 of 54852 Old 05-23-2019, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post


The Receiver most certainly cannot determine what type of speaker is used,
whether it's wall or ceiling mounted, or what angle it's at.

The AVR's room correction software measures distance (delay), establishes frequency capability (size) for setting a crossover
...and it adjusts the output level relative to the other speakers in the system...That is ALL.
What are you talking about Pio? I never said it can guess the speaker. I said it reads the item, and it would read the item the user puts in. In order to do experimentation as a ceiling speaker insinuates that you put in the speaker as a ceiling, rather than pray it comes out as one and experiment. ROFLMAO.


I agree that they should be pointed down at an angle such as the link I provided. However if yours are straight down as they appear in your picture then you might want to do some research and experimentation if it sounds better as a ceiling speaker, because it would make sense that the receiver reads what type of speaker it is and knowing that it produces a sound based on what angle the speaker is pointed at.

Kim

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post #54489 of 54852 Old 05-24-2019, 06:18 AM
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...If I may ask for a spoiler, did you end up using DAES? I haven't read that far yet but I would not of thought those were even an option for you with your ceilings. ...

As much as I like experimenting, tomorrow will hopefully -- mostly -- be for a few movies. I don't often get the house to myself where I can crank it to the way I like.

...I get the feeling I am going to have a much better experience with all them now that I will have Rear Height speakers.
Yes, I do have Front DAES in my config. Yes, as you'll read, they were a bit tedious to set up.

As for adding the Rears, it should be an amazing difference. I can use 7.2.2 + Zone 2 or 7.2.4 and can switch between. When going from 7.2.2 to 7.2.4 the difference is remarkable! You can hear (feel) the soundfield expand. 7.2.2 immerses me from front to my MLP despite the fact that the Rear Surrounds in my bed (base) are in play. Change to 7.2.4 and that rear area lifts and is filled regardless of whether there is actual content on the Rear Presence. But as I say in my thread, it takes getting the RPs in the right place to really hear it. Move them forward to an overhead position right behind me and the effect is lost. While it can be done, I think that having an MLP against a wall and the RPs mounted on that wall would diminish the experience -- and I would want to move the MLP forward. (Or knock out that wall. )

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post #54490 of 54852 Old 05-24-2019, 08:45 AM
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Yes, I do have Front DAES in my config. Yes, as you'll read, they were a bit tedious to set up.

As for adding the Rears, it should be an amazing difference. I can use 7.2.2 + Zone 2 or 7.2.4 and can switch between. When going from 7.2.2 to 7.2.4 the difference is remarkable! You can hear (feel) the soundfield expand. 7.2.2 immerses me from front to my MLP despite the fact that the Rear Surrounds in my bed (base) are in play. Change to 7.2.4 and that rear area lifts and is filled regardless of whether there is actual content on the Rear Presence. But as I say in my thread, it takes getting the RPs in the right place to really hear it. Move them forward to an overhead position right behind me and the effect is lost. While it can be done, I think that having an MLP against a wall and the RPs mounted on that wall would diminish the experience -- and I would want to move the MLP forward. (Or knock out that wall. )
I may of skimmed too fast when reading because I feel I missed some of your woes with the DAES. I know you mentioned having to factor the angle in of your ceiling but looking at photos, you have them on top of your entertainment center but they look like they are resting flat on it. Is there more to it than that?

It didn't occur to me until right now when you mentioned your rear tops doubling as your zone 2. It suddenly makes that much more sense where they actually are...basically in your kitchen. But I love that. I've never had a use for a zone 2 but if I ever did, I would hope it's for as perfect a use as your setup.

I can't do anything about my MLP being up against a wall. It's our living room and we have young children so I can just randomly pull the couch out from the wall. It wouldn't make sense in our living room. I setup is partially a compromise but I do have when we move into a bigger place to look forward to, where I can hopefully do it all as ideal as possible.
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post #54491 of 54852 Old 05-26-2019, 12:28 PM
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I may of skimmed too fast when reading because I feel I missed some of your woes with the DAES. I know you mentioned having to factor the angle in of your ceiling but looking at photos, you have them on top of your entertainment center but they look like they are resting flat on it. Is there more to it than that?

It didn't occur to me until right now when you mentioned your rear tops doubling as your zone 2. It suddenly makes that much more sense where they actually are...basically in your kitchen. But I love that. I've never had a use for a zone 2 but if I ever did, I would hope it's for as perfect a use as your setup.

I can't do anything about my MLP being up against a wall. It's our living room and we have young children so I can just randomly pull the couch out from the wall. It wouldn't make sense in our living room. I setup is partially a compromise but I do have when we move into a bigger place to look forward to, where I can hopefully do it all as ideal as possible.
Actually, @zeonstar , the top of my AV unit has a 3" riser that hides what is behind it. You only see the top of my DAES, but the back edges have blocks of 2x4 under them which prop them up exactly 2.25" higher than the front edge. That 2.25 inches is included in my YPAO backup name along with the fact that the DAES are toed in toward my MLP.

Sorry, but you misunderstood about the Zone 2 (in my case this is outside speakers on my deck). The Yamaha A3060 (and similar models) allow for a "7.2.2 + Zone2" setup which uses only the AVR amps. But the connection for the Zone2 also has jacks for a straight pre-out connection to an external amp for Rear Presence speakers. By setting up an alternate configuration for 7.2.4, the Zone2 is bypassed and the RPs powered -- 7.2.4. So a simple change in the Yamaha Setup menus, allows me to switch back and forth as I choose to either listen to 7.2.2 in my HT AND stereo on my deck (those can have different inputs or the same) or to listen to full 7.2.4 in the HT with no output to the deck. It took me a bit to understand and figure that out, but with help from @jdsmoothie , @PioManiac and others on the 3060 thread, I finally worked through it. Just some of the detail I gloss over in my HT thread.

And actually the RPs are in my dining room, not the kitchen. The LR/DR combination makes up my HT. The kitchen/family room is through the door near my Rear Surrounds. That is my wife's domain (nearly soundproofed unless the HT is "powered" ) -- even though I use the kitchen more than she does as an adjunct to my grill just outside on another deck. (Not mentioned in my thread is that over 26 years in this house, I made a LOT of upgrades including adding 2100 sq ft to the original 500 sq ft deck/porch space as well as the recent addition of a full width patio (@500 sq ft) to the front of the house. A current "pending" project is to extend music to that patio -- maybe via a Zone 4?) (Partial explanation: My wife has the alpha-gal allergy and all this hardspace around the house gives her the freedom to move around anywhere outside with no potential exposure to ticks.)

So when you say that you are limited somewhat by your current situation, I totally understand. During the years with my daughter growing up and the 20 years since she married and moved off we went through many music incarnations in various physical locations (9 to be exact) before settling here and working through at least 5 more before "finalizing" as is in 2016. (One more thanks and a tip-of-the-hat to @jdsmoothie who turned me on to the A3060 and "real-life".)

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Also when you go to the Photos and Video app in the Home Smart Hub there is a Dolby Vision and Atmos video in the video section. Check out the one with the helicopter. The helicopter flying overhead will be a good measure for you to see how well you hear the heights.
Just a quick post. Wanted to tell you I liked the helicopter video. It's funny, I knew those 2 clips were on the tv but I dont know if I ever watched that one! I may of only watched the other one! Thanks though.


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\I think the best test of it is 3 or 4 minute surfing clip.

You meant "The Wild" clip right?

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post #54493 of 54852 Old 05-26-2019, 09:22 PM
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Actually, @zeonstar , the top of my AV unit has a 3" riser that hides what is behind it. You only see the top of my DAES, but the back edges have blocks of 2x4 under them which prop them up exactly 2.25" higher than the front edge. That 2.25 inches is included in my YPAO backup name along with the fact that the DAES are toed in toward my MLP.

Sorry, but you misunderstood about the Zone 2 (in my case this is outside speakers on my deck). The Yamaha A3060 (and similar models) allow for a "7.2.2 + Zone2" setup which uses only the AVR amps. But the connection for the Zone2 also has jacks for a straight pre-out connection to an external amp for Rear Presence speakers. By setting up an alternate configuration for 7.2.4, the Zone2 is bypassed and the RPs powered -- 7.2.4. So a simple change in the Yamaha Setup menus, allows me to switch back and forth as I choose to either listen to 7.2.2 in my HT AND stereo on my deck (those can have different inputs or the same) or to listen to full 7.2.4 in the HT with no output to the deck. It took me a bit to understand and figure that out, but with help from @jdsmoothie , @PioManiac and others on the 3060 thread, I finally worked through it. Just some of the detail I gloss over in my HT thread.

And actually the RPs are in my dining room, not the kitchen. The LR/DR combination makes up my HT. The kitchen/family room is through the door near my Rear Surrounds. That is my wife's domain (nearly soundproofed unless the HT is "powered" ) -- even though I use the kitchen more than she does as an adjunct to my grill just outside on another deck. (Not mentioned in my thread is that over 26 years in this house, I made a LOT of upgrades including adding 2100 sq ft to the original 500 sq ft deck/porch space as well as the recent addition of a full width patio (@500 sq ft) to the front of the house. A current "pending" project is to extend music to that patio -- maybe via a Zone 4?) (Partial explanation: My wife has the alpha-gal allergy and all this hardspace around the house gives her the freedom to move around anywhere outside with no potential exposure to ticks.)

So when you say that you are limited somewhat by your current situation, I totally understand. During the years with my daughter growing up and the 20 years since she married and moved off we went through many music incarnations in various physical locations (9 to be exact) before settling here and working through at least 5 more before "finalizing" as is in 2016. (One more thanks and a tip-of-the-hat to @jdsmoothie who turned me on to the A3060 and "real-life".)

Good evening. Nice to hear from you! I appreciate the clarification on your front presence speakers as well as the explanation of your Zone 2. My mistake on that one. My AVR, a Denon X4400H, can do something similar with a zone 2 and even a zone 3. But I have never used a zone 2 in my life. As of my adding my rear heights, I have now "Maxed out" my internal amps. My AVR can actually support 2 more speakers, making it 7.1.4, but those last 2 would need an external amp. (Again, something I have never dabbled in.) I am saving going full 7.1.4 for when we move and I can hopefully plan it to have speakers behind me.

I've never heard anyone else call Atmos related speakers "presence" speakers before so it is taking me some getting use to it to know what you were talking about.

Also I misspoke when I said kitchen. I basically meant they are above the table behind your MLP.

I have continued to read your thread when I have time. Find it really interesting. So thank you.
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post #54494 of 54852 Old 05-26-2019, 09:40 PM
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Good evening. Nice to hear from you! I appreciate the clarification on your front presence speakers as well as the explanation of your Zone 2. My mistake on that one. My AVR, a Denon X4400H, can do something similar with a zone 2 and even a zone 3. But I have never used a zone 2 in my life. As of my adding my rear heights, I have now "Maxed out" my internal amps. My AVR can actually support 2 more speakers, making it 7.1.4, but those last 2 would need an external amp. (Again, something I have never dabbled in.) I am saving going full 7.1.4 for when we move and I can hopefully plan it to have speakers behind me.

I've never heard anyone else call Atmos related speakers "presence" speakers before so it is taking me some getting use to it to know what you were talking about.

Also I misspoke when I said kitchen. I basically meant they are above the table behind your MLP.

I have continued to read your thread when I have time. Find it really interesting. So thank you.
No issues on my part. I find it fascinating that so many years apart we are having similar experiences. As for my thread, I just hope you find it useful in some way. As I was writing it all, I kept wondering just how many might find it insufferable boring...

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post #54495 of 54852 Old 05-27-2019, 03:12 AM
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Just a quick post. Wanted to tell you I liked the helicopter video. It's funny, I knew those 2 clips were on the tv but I dont know if I ever watched that one! I may have only watched the other one! Thanks though.

You meant "The Wild" clip right?
It looks like the clips may vary between regions. Just to check because it's been lost from the quoting, we are talking about the sample videos built-in to the LG C8 televisions. In "Sample Video" I have two titles: Dolomite, and Fiji. I don't have anything called "The Wild" inside the Sample Clips built into the TV.

Dolomite starts inside a cave, and then shows Alpine mountains, fishing, boats on a lake and ends with Alpine horns.
Fiji has a yellow helicopter flying overhead near the start, people surfing, dolphins, and incredible big wave in slow motion shot from below, jetski-ing and ends with a nice sunset.

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post #54496 of 54852 Old 05-27-2019, 09:18 AM
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Just a quick post. Wanted to tell you I liked the helicopter video. It's funny, I knew those 2 clips were on the tv but I dont know if I ever watched that one! I may have only watched the other one! Thanks though.

You meant "The Wild" clip right?
It looks like the clips may vary between regions. Just to check because it's been lost from the quoting, we are talking about the sample videos built-in to the LG C8 televisions. In "Sample Video" I have two titles: Dolomite, and Fiji. I don't have anything called "The Wild" inside the Sample Clips built into the TV.

Dolomite starts inside a cave, and then shows Alpine mountains, fishing, boats on a lake and ends with Alpine horns.
Fiji has a yellow helicopter flying overhead near the start, people surfing, dolphins, and incredible big wave in slow motion shot from below, jetski-ing and ends with a nice sunset.
This is my mistake and the way I quoted the messages. Sorry about that. From your description, we DO have the same clips in the photos and videos app that come with our TV.

“The Wild” Trailer I mention was what I thought was the one with the surfers that had been suggested I watch for Atmos content. That video is in the Dolby Access app. It was the only video in there I saw with surfers so I figured that had to be the one referred to.
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post #54497 of 54852 Old 05-27-2019, 03:35 PM
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Please help me decide on 5.1.2 or 5.1.4

My home theater is in my basement, its a shared entertainment space with a bar area. I have a projector/92" screen and I'm running a 5.1 system. My room does not really allow for side speakers so no 7.1 and only allows for my rear speakers to be behind the seating area mounted higher on the walls (see pictures)

Above my seating area is a tray ceiling where the Atmos ceiling speakers would go. The ceiling speakers will be in alignment with the front speakers, there will be no issues for placing two of the speakers forward of the seating area, the only concern is the rear speakers would be just slightly rearward of the seating area if I keep them in the tray ceiling or I would have to install them outside of the tray ceiling which would be one foot lower than the fronts.

My distance above my ear to ceiling is 60" (to top of tray ceiling) so what would be the minimum distance I could place the front and rear speakers to achieve the 55 and 125 degree specification?

Will a 5.1.4 system be worth it or should I just do 5.1.2?


On a side note I'm redoing my basement, I started patching drywall in order to paint the area a darker grey color, replacing my 603s with 700 series (gloss black), replacing my bar counter top and existing furniture to match the color scheme and I finally got the wife to agree to sell the curio cabinet!




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post #54498 of 54852 Old 05-27-2019, 08:03 PM
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IMO, you create your own problems with Atmos by having your rear speakers in the ceiling. You essentially have no "base". As 5.1, they probably sound good. I would move the rears down to ear level at the back, and then go with 5.1.4 by adjusting your MLP and the ceiling speakers however works best. The 1 foot elevation difference is minor -- just place the ceiling speakers according to Atmos standards as best you can. (You may prefer something different, but this is what I would do with your space. I'd like to know how it all works out.)

Edit: FYI, also IMO, 5.1.4 will always be better than 5.1.2 if you can "tweak" the rest of the room to manage it.
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post #54499 of 54852 Old 05-28-2019, 05:38 AM
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IMO, you create your own problems with Atmos by having your rear speakers in the ceiling. You essentially have no "base". As 5.1, they probably sound good. I would move the rears down to ear level at the back, and then go with 5.1.4 by adjusting your MLP and the ceiling speakers however works best. The 1 foot elevation difference is minor -- just place the ceiling speakers according to Atmos standards as best you can. (You may prefer something different, but this is what I would do with your space. I'd like to know how it all works out.)

Edit: FYI, also IMO, 5.1.4 will always be better than 5.1.2 if you can "tweak" the rest of the room to manage it.
Lowering my rear speakers is not really an option, they would be in the way of foot traffic. The good thing is I've read where rears are supposed to be elevated a foot or two above your ears abd I would have to do that anyway to clear my seat backs.

What I have to decide on is:

5.1.4 and adding all the ceiling speakers into the tray ceiling, that would put the rears just behind my MLP so although not to specifications, I have to imagine that after running Audyssey, I will hear the overhead sounds in front and slightly rearward of my MLP and that would be better than just hearing sounds from the front. Putting them outside of the tray ceiling will put them to close top the rears on the walls.

5.1.2 and save on the expense of two additional ceiling speakers and higher end receiver. 5.1.2 will give me overhead sounds I did not have before and I could buy the AVR-X3600H instead of the AVR-X4500H.

Although implementing everything to specifications would be best, I'm sure it will sound amazing nonetheless.

I will report back on what I decided to do and how I think it sounds.
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post #54500 of 54852 Old 05-28-2019, 05:45 AM
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Elevating the rears by a foot or two is okay for regular 5.1/7.1. But with Atmos you really need to keep the rears at ear level. The greater the height delta between the rears and the overhead speaker, the more you’ll hear the immersion effect.
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post #54501 of 54852 Old 05-28-2019, 06:36 AM
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Lowering my rear speakers is not really an option, they would be in the way of foot traffic. The good thing is I've read where rears are supposed to be elevated a foot or two above your ears abd I would have to do that anyway to clear my seat backs.

What I have to decide on is:

5.1.4 and adding all the ceiling speakers into the tray ceiling, that would put the rears just behind my MLP so although not to specifications, I have to imagine that after running Audyssey, I will hear the overhead sounds in front and slightly rearward of my MLP and that would be better than just hearing sounds from the front. Putting them outside of the tray ceiling will put them to close top the rears on the walls.

5.1.2 and save on the expense of two additional ceiling speakers and higher end receiver. 5.1.2 will give me overhead sounds I did not have before and I could buy the AVR-X3600H instead of the AVR-X4500H.

Although implementing everything to specifications would be best, I'm sure it will sound amazing nonetheless.

I will report back on what I decided to do and how I think it sounds.
5.1.4 gives a better enveloping experience, especially since you have such a large space.
By the way, if you move your centre to the front edge of the cabinet, it will sound better..
cheers
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post #54502 of 54852 Old 05-28-2019, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by drober30 View Post
Lowering my rear speakers is not really an option, they would be in the way of foot traffic. The good thing is I've read where rears are supposed to be elevated a foot or two above your ears abd I would have to do that anyway to clear my seat backs.

What I have to decide on is:

5.1.4 and adding all the ceiling speakers into the tray ceiling, that would put the rears just behind my MLP so although not to specifications, I have to imagine that after running Audyssey, I will hear the overhead sounds in front and slightly rearward of my MLP and that would be better than just hearing sounds from the front. Putting them outside of the tray ceiling will put them to close top the rears on the walls.

5.1.2 and save on the expense of two additional ceiling speakers and higher end receiver. 5.1.2 will give me overhead sounds I did not have before and I could buy the AVR-X3600H instead of the AVR-X4500H.

Although implementing everything to specifications would be best, I'm sure it will sound amazing nonetheless.

I will report back on what I decided to do and how I think it sounds.
While 2 overheads will add overhead ambiance/immersion, the benefit of 4 overheads is delivering even greater immersive effects by accurately reproducing overhead front to rear and rear to front pans found in many of today's action blockbusters.
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post #54503 of 54852 Old 05-28-2019, 07:54 AM
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Hi all not sure if I’m on the right thread asking this?
I wanna do Atmos on a budget $2500 to 3000

My criteria
5.1.4 set up with a 12 inch sub self powered, RCAs connections, cross overs and upfires temporary, I’m renting so I’m not putting holes in ceiling!

I’m spending half or more on my AVR, Denon 9.2 ch, because I plan on using it when I upgrade to my dream system!
So I’m looking to spend a $1000-1500 on speakers nothing fancy but not crap either.
I know the purist hate the upfires but I plan on doing in ceiling when I become a homeowner!

I’m also goin to wait and buy a center ch speaker for now as I have a new Sony OLED with center ch capability.

I’m Coming from an Atmos soundbar which limits me to just UHD Blu-ray only. So I want a somewhat traditional set up.

Any advice is appreciated Thank you!

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post #54504 of 54852 Old 05-28-2019, 08:49 AM
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While 2 overheads will add overhead ambiance/immersion, the benefit of 4 overheads is delivering even greater immersive effects by accurately reproducing overhead front to rear and rear to front pans found in many of today's action blockbusters.
I agree that will give the full effect and justifies the extra work/expense! Just need to determine if I mount my rears outside the tray ceiling or just accept the results with them mounted slightly behind the MLP inside the tray ceiling. I'm really leaning toward mounting inside the tray ceiling. For panning sound affects, I'm sure the sound is also faded in or out which will help with the compromised speaker placements. I think other sounds will be good too, just not as immersive if they were spaced out rearward more.

Maybe I can find some type of way to place the rear speakers in each location as a test before I commit and cut the holes.
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post #54505 of 54852 Old 05-28-2019, 09:57 AM
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Elevating the rears by a foot or two is okay for regular 5.1/7.1. But with Atmos you really need to keep the rears at ear level.
That's kind of an extreme position and from what I've seen one not shared by other pros. Surrounds at ear level presents other issues (sound being blocked by people's heads, uneven dispersion / hot-spotting in a small room) which are even worse in a multi-row environment where "ear height" is different for each row. A typical domestic HT which is only 12-15' wide is probably going to have some listeners only a few feet from the surround speaker -- that's why builds I've seen from people like Erskine or Shawn Byrne still tend to elevate the surrounds above ear level.

It's always a compromise between different trade-offs. The real world isn't going to be an ideal room with a single seat in the middle. I think raising the surrounds 12-18 inches is a defensible compromise if the alternative is uncomfortable hot spotting for the off axis listeners. Rather than the absolute position "need to be at ear level" a more practical philosophy "as low as they can go without causing other issues" which Nyal Mellor espouses in his blog post on the topic: http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/ten...os-dts-x-auro/
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post #54506 of 54852 Old 05-28-2019, 10:02 AM
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Lowering my rear speakers is not really an option
If lowering the rears is not an option then do 5.1.2. It's not worth trying to shoehorn in rear overheads when the surrounds are already behind you and elevated so much.

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post #54507 of 54852 Old 05-28-2019, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
Elevating the rears by a foot or two is okay for regular 5.1/7.1. But with Atmos you really need to keep the rears at ear level.
That's kind of an extreme position and from what I've seen one not shared by other pros. Surrounds at ear level presents other issues (sound being blocked by people's heads, uneven dispersion / hot-spotting in a small room) which are even worse in a multi-row environment where "ear height" is different for each row. A typical domestic HT which is only 12-15' wide is probably going to have some listeners only a few feet from the surround speaker -- that's why builds I've seen from people like Erskine or Shawn Byrne still tend to elevate the surrounds above ear level.

It's always a compromise between different trade-offs. The real world isn't going to be an ideal room with a single seat in the middle. I think raising the surrounds 12-18 inches is a defensible compromise if the alternative is uncomfortable hot spotting for the off axis listeners. Rather than the absolute position "need to be at ear level" a more practical philosophy "as low as they can go without causing other issues" which Nyal Mellor espouses in his blog post on the topic: http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/ten...os-dts-x-auro/
But that’s exactly it... compromise.

I have to do it for my home theatre too (having the rears 1ft above ideal). But it’s a compromise nevertheless.

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post #54508 of 54852 Old 05-28-2019, 10:08 AM
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But that’s exactly it... compromise.

I have to do it for my home theatre too (having the rears 1ft above ideal). But it’s a compromise nevertheless.
OK, forgive me if I misinterpreted you, but your comment that "with Atmos you really need to keep the rears at ear level" sounded to me like you were espousing a more rigid position. If all you're saying is that's the ideal to shoot for, then we are in agreement

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post #54509 of 54852 Old 05-28-2019, 10:13 AM
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Lowering my rear speakers is not really an option
If lowering the rears is not an option then do 5.1.2. It's not worth trying to shoehorn in rear overheads when the surrounds are already behind you and elevated so much.
I agree so that’s why I thought if I put the rear Atmos inside the ceiling tray that it would still give me better immersion and be far enough away from the rears.

The whole idea of certain sounds coming from certain speakers still applies and as long as there is a decent separation between my rear Atmos and rear surrounds, I think I’ll get the desired sound effects.
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post #54510 of 54852 Old 05-28-2019, 10:40 AM
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But that’s exactly it... compromise.

I have to do it for my home theatre too (having the rears 1ft above ideal). But it’s a compromise nevertheless.
OK, forgive me if I misinterpreted you, but your comment that "with Atmos you really need to keep the rears at ear level" sounded to me like you were espousing a more rigid position. If all you're saying is that's the ideal to shoot for, then we are in agreement [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Yup! My apology for being unclear 🙂

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