The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 1825 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #54721 of 55010 Old 06-15-2019, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Not that I know, but while unlikely, is it possible that some of those new mixes designed for dance clubs (i.e. Ministry of Sound in London or Sound Bar here in Chicago) might be using the new technology in the multi-track recording process?

My understanding is that the club setups are for mixing live in the format.

There is nothing stopping a producer or artist in using any of the techniques or equipment like the setups Dan is taking about.

From a practical standpoint, however, the Auro recording trees are much more suited to 5.1 base plus 5.1 height layers. A decidedly different type of setup than Atmos with LCR heights. But I suspect using it for in studio ambience capture would be cool
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post #54722 of 55010 Old 06-15-2019, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post
No need to compare as no two disc are the same , I judge each on its own merits. I'm fully aware of the Disney releases that suffer low level and dynamics and this isn't one of them. Disc like Mad Max fury road are a rare breed and just about any disc would come away sounding compressed and lifeless but same could be said for Blade runner 2049 if you watched it afterwards as well[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
I agree with you on both counts. First, that the TrueHD Atmos soundtrack on the Captain Marvel 4K disk is excellent. Second, that demonstration quality Atmos soundtracks, such as those in Mad Max: Fury Road and Blade Runner sound better than other Atmos soundtracks. Although the Captain Marvel soundtrack gave me a lot of pleasure, it isn't demonstration quality, in a class with the very best soundtracks. Compared to just about any other Marvel soundtrack I can think of, though, the Captain Marvel one is clearly the best.
For reference atmos do you mean the original Blade Runner or 2049 or both?

Btw, watched the whole captain marvel-agree it is MUCH better then most marvel atmos so far

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post #54723 of 55010 Old 06-15-2019, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
For reference atmos do you mean the original Blade Runner or 2049 or both?

Btw, watched the whole captain marvel-agree it is MUCH better then most marvel atmos so far


Blade Runner The Final Cut on UHD and 2049 are both reference Atmos.


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post #54724 of 55010 Old 06-16-2019, 03:01 AM
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Thank you! Nicely done diagram! Even if just a best guess.
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Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
TrueHD is still under patent (DD patent expired in Nov 2017) so the "inner workings" are not public.
You may want to search on Google for these PDFs:
I have seen them. They are marketing material at best, because they don’t reveal any technical details of the encoding or transport format.
The most technical I've seen is the [email protected] document, but it also does not have any relation to actual transport stream.
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post #54725 of 55010 Old 06-16-2019, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
For reference atmos do you mean the original Blade Runner or 2049 or both?

Btw, watched the whole captain marvel-agree it is MUCH better then most marvel atmos so far
I was actually trying to talk about Blade Runner 2049 but didn't say it. That said, though, the TrueHD Atmos soundtrack for the original Blade Runner is wonderful too.
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post #54726 of 55010 Old 06-16-2019, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post
No need to compare as no two disc are the same , I judge each on its own merits. I'm fully aware of the Disney releases that suffer low level and dynamics and this isn't one of them. Disc like Mad Max fury road are a rare breed and just about any disc would come away sounding compressed and lifeless but same could be said for Blade runner 2049 if you watched it afterwards as well[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
I agree with you on both counts. First, that the TrueHD Atmos soundtrack on the Captain Marvel 4K disk is excellent. Second, that demonstration quality Atmos soundtracks, such as those in Mad Max: Fury Road and Blade Runner sound better than other Atmos soundtracks. Although the Captain Marvel soundtrack gave me a lot of pleasure, it isn't demonstration quality, in a class with the very best soundtracks. Compared to just about any other Marvel soundtrack I can think of, though, the Captain Marvel one is clearly the best.
For reference atmos do you mean the original Blade Runner or 2049 or both?

Btw, watched the whole captain marvel-agree it is MUCH better then most marvel atmos so far
Would also add Spider-Man into the Spiderverse to the absolute best of the best atmos demo list

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post #54727 of 55010 Old 06-16-2019, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by dschulz View Post
https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-t...how-to-get-it/

"Dolby says it has created an entirely new recording format for its popular Dolby Atmos 3D-sound format, called Dolby Atmos Music, which goes way beyond two-channel stereo. You may already be aware of Dolby Atmos for movies and TV shows — if not, we have a great explainer and a detailed how-to guide — but Dolby Atmos Music is its own beast. Here’s the lowdown on could might become a big part of recorded music’s next big leap forward."
Yeah, I created a separate thread for that the other day. Seems like it deserves it's own thread....
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post #54728 of 55010 Old 06-16-2019, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Matt L View Post
Yeah, I created a separate thread for that the other day. Seems like it deserves it's own thread....
Subscribed, thanks.
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post #54729 of 55010 Old 06-16-2019, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Matt L View Post
Yeah, I created a separate thread for that the other day. Seems like it deserves it's own thread....
Is that on AVS? I see a few Atmos music related threads on the Surround Music Formats sub-forum, but they haven't had activity in the past week. Are you referring to those?

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post #54730 of 55010 Old 06-16-2019, 02:13 PM
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https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...ic-thread.html

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post #54731 of 55010 Old 06-16-2019, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by LNEWoLF View Post
Hidden in plain sight. Thanks!

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post #54732 of 55010 Old 06-16-2019, 02:22 PM
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Hidden in plain sight. Thanks!
Your welcome. My eyes have played tricks on ME also.

Eat more carrots

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post #54733 of 55010 Old 06-16-2019, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Would also add Spider-Man into the Spiderverse to the absolute best of the best atmos demo list
Demo worthy mix, but no Wides.

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Does anyone know if there is any Atmos content on Amazon Prime other than Jack Ryan? I just want to make sure I am not missing anything. thanks!


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post #54735 of 55010 Old 06-16-2019, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by KapaaIan View Post
So in a world where you're doing new drywall and a new ceiling, if you're configuring for "future proofed" .10 Atmos, would the ideal actually be 10 identical in ceiling speakers with the "heights" mounted in the ceiling but pointed (given an aimable/angled design) or mounted into the top of the wall? Or would a better option be 6 in ceiling speakers, and 2 pairs of "wedge" shaped ones like RP-500SAs or Prime Elevations?
10 of the same speaker for consistency.
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post #54736 of 55010 Old 06-17-2019, 12:26 AM
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I have just about finished my theatre setup and after hearing the difference 3 identical LCR speakers made I decided to test having all 11 identical speakers in my 7.x.4 setup.


OMG !! what a difference that has made - the best way I can describe it is absolutely seamless and all-enveloping. It now sounds like the sound is just "there" and "coming from all around" rather than being easy to identify which speaker the sound is coming from.


Highly recommend it if you can do it.


And for the record my speakers are early 90's Mordaunt Short MS3.20 for the fronts and surrounds and MS3.10 (same driver and tweeter in a slightly shorter enclosure) for the rear surrounds and heights. These are only 4 1/2" drivers in small boxes so it made it easier to fit them all. But with my multiple subs they actually sounded better then my large MS towers and standmounts.
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post #54737 of 55010 Old 06-17-2019, 12:37 AM
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I've lived with my 4 ceiling speakers for a week or two now and I am totally amazed. Even with non Atmos content the AVR extracts enough info to get sounds where they should be. I was watching a show with people on the beach and the dialog was up front, but all the ocean sounds were in the back surrounding me as they should have been. Tonight I was watching something and someone knocked on a door in the film and I about jumped because it appeared to actually come from a spot in my room! It was properly positioned to the left of the screen as it was in the film.

I'm using some moderate price Yamaha 6" speakers with adjustable tweeters from Amazon at $90/pair and I do not find them lacking. I'm glad I did not hold out for more expensive speakers as was discussed here earlier. Sure, if your budget allows go for the good stuff, but if you want to get a good basic system up and running I see no downside to paying a little less. At some point you can always upgrade, but you cannot make up for the lost time not having Atmos.
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post #54738 of 55010 Old 06-17-2019, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt L View Post
I've lived with my 4 ceiling speakers for a week or two now and I am totally amazed. Even with non Atmos content the AVR extracts enough info to get sounds where they should be. I was watching a show with people on the beach and the dialog was up front, but all the ocean sounds were in the back surrounding me as they should have been. Tonight I was watching something and someone knocked on a door in the film and I about jumped because it appeared to actually come from a spot in my room! It was properly positioned to the left of the screen as it was in the film.

I'm using some moderate price Yamaha 6" speakers with adjustable tweeters from Amazon at $90/pair and I do not find them lacking. I'm glad I did not hold out for more expensive speakers as was discussed here earlier. Sure, if your budget allows go for the good stuff, but if you want to get a good basic system up and running I see no downside to paying a little less. At some point you can always upgrade, but you cannot make up for the lost time not having Atmos.

Congratulations on your success; good to hear that it worked out so well for you on the first stab and that your research paid off handsomely.

However, I do have one caveat to your above advice: When it comes to in-ceiling speakers, upgrading can be problematic due to the need to cut commensurately sized holes in the ceiling of what, for some of us, is a multi-purpose room. For this reason alone, you may want to get an in-ceiling speaker that will last you through follow-on upgrade cycles. Measure twice, cut once, as it were.
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post #54739 of 55010 Old 06-17-2019, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt L View Post
I've lived with my 4 ceiling speakers for a week or two now and I am totally amazed. Even with non Atmos content the AVR extracts enough info to get sounds where they should be. I was watching a show with people on the beach and the dialog was up front, but all the ocean sounds were in the back surrounding me as they should have been. Tonight I was watching something and someone knocked on a door in the film and I about jumped because it appeared to actually come from a spot in my room! It was properly positioned to the left of the screen as it was in the film.

I'm using some moderate price Yamaha 6" speakers with adjustable tweeters from Amazon at $90/pair and I do not find them lacking. I'm glad I did not hold out for more expensive speakers as was discussed here earlier. Sure, if your budget allows go for the good stuff, but if you want to get a good basic system up and running I see no downside to paying a little less. At some point you can always upgrade, but you cannot make up for the lost time not having Atmos.
My experience parallels yours exactly and runs counter intuitive to much of the advice provided in these threads. Old school mantra's have us looking for speakers that match our mains in terms of FR, timbre, quality, costs, etc. In my experience over the past 2-3 years, Atmos is just not that demanding. With the exception of perhaps a good wide dispersion speaker, the speaker itself is just not than important. More important are good/proper speaker location relative to the MLP(s) and in some situations the ability to "aim" the woofer/tweeter. I've found that the adage "It's hard to get Atmos wrong!" holds true. The following link is my recent post in response to a question in a different thread but applies here as well.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...l#post57871854
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post #54740 of 55010 Old 06-17-2019, 09:13 AM
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Question

@FilmMixer ,

First of all a big THANK YOU for all your very valuable interventions

Now coming to a precise but important question related to the way home Atmos mixes are built.
We know the 9.1 (7.1.2) cinema bed is converted to 7.1 on Bluray so it can be played on non-Atmos receivers.
The Top .2 bed gets converted into 2 fixed objects at coordinates Y=0.5 (surround level on main room axis), this is information we can get from the Dolby documentation.
But what the documentation does not say is the Z coordinate for those 2 "Top bed objects". This is key because if Z=0 it means the top bed goes into surrounds while if Z=1 it means it would go into the Top Middle position !!! (rendered by Top middle if present, else rendered by other Top or Height speakers)
Can you give us the default Z that it used, if you know it ??
Thanks

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post #54741 of 55010 Old 06-17-2019, 09:32 AM
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This is key because if Z=0 it means the top bed goes into surrounds...
Why would objects intended for the height layer be encoded to render to the base layer?

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post #54742 of 55010 Old 06-17-2019, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by KapaaIan View Post
if you're configuring for "future proofed" .10 Atmos
Considering how some Atmos soundtracks are mixed, you'd be better off doing a .8 or .4 overhead configuration and not including Top Middles.
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post #54743 of 55010 Old 06-17-2019, 09:45 AM
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Considering how some Atmos soundtracks are mixed, you'd be better off doing a .8 or .4 overhead configuration and not including Top Middles.

I wonder how the home Atmos renderer would behave with a .8 overhead configuration considering those particular odd-ball mixes.

Listen up, studios! Dolby Atmos Lite™ print-outs must stop!!
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post #54744 of 55010 Old 06-17-2019, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by usc1995 View Post
Does anyone know if there is any Atmos content on Amazon Prime other than Jack Ryan? I just want to make sure I am not missing anything. thanks!


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There will be on 8/30 once I finish mixing the project I’m on.


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post #54745 of 55010 Old 06-17-2019, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pasender91 View Post
@FilmMixer ,



First of all a big THANK YOU for all your very valuable interventions



Now coming to a precise but important question related to the way home Atmos mixes are built.

We know the 9.1 (7.1.2) cinema bed is converted to 7.1 on Bluray so it can be played on non-Atmos receivers.

The Top .2 bed gets converted into 2 fixed objects at coordinates Y=0.5 (surround level on main room axis), this is information we can get from the Dolby documentation.

But what the documentation does not say is the Z coordinate for those 2 "Top bed objects". This is key because if Z=0 it means the top bed goes into surrounds while if Z=1 it means it would go into the Top Middle position !!! (rendered by Top middle if present, else rendered by other Top or Height speakers)

Can you give us the default Z that it used, if you know it ??

Thanks


My understanding is that it comes out of all overheads as intended.


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post #54746 of 55010 Old 06-17-2019, 09:59 AM
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There will be on 8/30 once I finish mixing the project I’m on.


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Cool! I look forward to it and hope it gets released on disc too in all its lossless glory. Is Amazon allowing a full blown, scalable Atmos encoding or are they fixed print-outs?

Listen up, studios! Dolby Atmos Lite™ print-outs must stop!!
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post #54747 of 55010 Old 06-17-2019, 10:09 AM
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This is such an extensive thread and filled with an abundance of information, but I have a 2-part question (that may have been addressed somewhere in all the pages of "goodness"...)


I have the standard "8-ft" ceilings in my dedicated home theater (part-time share with home office) and a second row of seats on a 10" riser. This puts the ceiling at about 3- 3.5' from the second row listeners ears.



Question 1a:

Is this enough distance from the listeners ears for Dolby Atmos? or does this run the risk of creating "hot spots" of sound due to the proximity?


Question 1b:

What about the "on the wall" type setup where the speakers are mounted where the ceiling and the wall meet. Examples of this would be:
SVS Prime Elevation:


Klipsch RP-500SA




Or even my JBL Cinema CSB6
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post #54748 of 55010 Old 06-17-2019, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
10 of the same speaker for consistency.
Makes sense and lines up with my thinking. So would the Top Fronts be ideally placed in the far corner in the ceiling, or toward the top of the wall? Or it doesn't matter, just do what makes the most sense for the angle of the speaker and MLP?
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post #54749 of 55010 Old 06-17-2019, 10:43 AM
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Great! Let us know the title when you can as Amazon does a terrible of indicating what titles have what when try it to find something to watch.


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post #54750 of 55010 Old 06-17-2019, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KapaaIan View Post
So would the Top Fronts be ideally placed in the far corner in the ceiling, or toward the top of the wall? Or it doesn't matter, just do what makes the most sense for the angle of the speaker and MLP?
The latter: whichever makes it easier to aim the speakers towards the listening area.

BTW, the Top Fronts location is a few feet forward of your listening position. What you're describing is the Front Heights location: the front corner of the ceiling, where the ceiling meets the front wall.

Sanjay
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