The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 1835 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #55021 of 56271 Old 07-20-2019, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by paindonthurt View Post
I’m thinking these speakers then.

Monoprice 2-Way Carbon Fiber in-Ceiling Speakers - 6.5 Inch with 15 Degree Angled Drivers (Pair) - Alpha Series https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JYP88R8..._Fj6mDbEAVJ29G
Any chance of mounting bookshelf speakers on ceiling mounts?

https://www.polkaudio.com/products/rtia1

Or using the same brand as your other speakers for in-ceiling?

https://www.polkaudio.com/products/mc60

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post #55022 of 56271 Old 07-20-2019, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
... But the sound is still coming from between speakers. That's why you don't hear sounds whizzing by your right ear. Think of which speakers in your system the sound would need to be in to create a phantom image near your right ear. Are any of those speakers near your right ear? ...
If the bullet sound was equally reproduced between L Front, R Front, L Rear, and R Rear, the sound would appear to be centered in one's head. Making the sound slightly right biased, and steering it from front to back would make it sound like it was whizzing past one's right ear.

That's what I assume happened to me in the 25th Anniversary Edition of Forest Gump, during the Vietnam segment, right before two planes napalmed the jungle and flew front to back through my living room.

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post #55023 of 56271 Old 07-20-2019, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by paindonthurt View Post
I’️m thinking these speakers then.

Monoprice 2-Way Carbon Fiber in-Ceiling Speakers - 6.5 Inch with 15 Degree Angled Drivers (Pair) - Alpha Series https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JYP88R8..._Fj6mDbEAVJ29G
Any chance of mounting bookshelf speakers on ceiling mounts?

https://www.polkaudio.com/products/rtia1

Or using the same brand as your other speakers for in-ceiling?

https://www.polkaudio.com/products/mc60
I have Polk bookshelf speakers but no way to really mount them to ceiling joists.

I looked at Polk ceiling speakers but everything I read said Atmos ceiling speakers didn’t need to be timbre matched. So I was looking at good speakers that were a bit less expensive.
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post #55024 of 56271 Old 07-20-2019, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by paindonthurt View Post
I looked at Polk ceiling speakers but everything I read said Atmos ceiling speakers didn’t need to be timbre matched.
I used to read the same thing about surround speakers. If sonic matching is not a concern, then save a little money.

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post #55025 of 56271 Old 07-20-2019, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post
Fixed it
Thanks. After I saw your post I went back and checked the link I posted. It was indeed broken so thanks again.

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post #55026 of 56271 Old 07-20-2019, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by paindonthurt View Post
I looked at Polk ceiling speakers but everything I read said Atmos ceiling speakers didn’️t need to be timbre matched.
I used to read the same thing about surround speakers. If sonic matching is not a concern, then save a little money.
According to Polk CS I should get the 70RT ceiling speakers. I just can’t see spending $1000 for ceiling speakers.

https://www.polkaudio.com/products/70-rt
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post #55027 of 56271 Old 07-20-2019, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by snookfisher View Post
So...question for you guys...

ATMOS claims to be "object based" instead of " channel based" and that means that it can place sounds of objects anywhere in the "dome" created by the overhead and ear level speakers. Well...I watched STAR TREK BEYOND last night and TERMINATOR the night before ( and yes I put in the right disc this time and chose the ATMOS option and confirmed that the receiver WAS receiving and outputting ATMOS). While waiting for my new processor and ceiling speakers to arrive I read all the atmos reviews. And while I ABSOLUTLY notice a perceivable improvement and every once in a while really cool overhead effect... I must say im not getting the "object placed in the dome" claimed by the reviewers....sounds still seem to emanate from one of the 7 "LISTENER LEVEL" speakers and not "free from channels". my 7.2.4 set up is the following:

Marantz 6011 (used as pre pro)
ANTHEM 7ch and 5ch amplifiers
7 MAGNEPAN "listener level" speakers
4 focal in ceiling speakers
2 EPIK PHEONIX subs


dedicated theater room all speakers aprox equal distance apart and in proper location


Do you guys experience the "free from speakers or channels" effect with objects sound emanating from any point in the dome?

I had the same issue when I first sat down to listen to my system almost no 3D or immersive effect at all.
Turned out to be positioning and alignment of my speakers and settings in my AVR.
If you can move or aim your speakers try changing them to see what happens and as suggested by someone else -raise the volume of your height level speakers a few db.
Use Atmos demos to set it up since you know these will provide sound all around you.
And yes bullets should whistle past your head enough to make you duck and birds should fly close enough that you can almost feel the wind beneath their wings and raindrops will fill the entire room. etc etc


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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
I used to read the same thing about surround speakers. If sonic matching is not a concern, then save a little money.

but it does sound better if they are all matching.


I have all 11 speakers identical in my 7.1.4 setup and the difference from having similar to having identical speakers was massive.



The soundfield is totally seamless all round and it is much more immersive.


No you don't need identical speakers, but yes you do want them.........



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post #55028 of 56271 Old 07-21-2019, 02:35 AM
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Do you have a movie or scenes that you would recommend that give you the full atmos experience?
Reelwood contains a massive selection of good snippets from movies and demo clips.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...dtsx-more.html
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post #55029 of 56271 Old 07-21-2019, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by paindonthurt View Post
According to Polk CS I should get the 70RT ceiling speakers. I just can’t see spending $1000 for ceiling speakers.

https://www.polkaudio.com/products/70-rt

How does half that much sound to you ($500 for two pairs)? FWIW, I and many other AVSForum posters have bought slews of refurbished speakers from the Polk Audio eBay store and found them by and large to be indistinguishable from the brand new article.

Or, for slightly less but NIB, you can get the same 80F/X-RT speakers I am using with my RTiA setup.

If you want to go cheaper ($150/pair), many users like the RC80i (although not a timbre-match for your speakers).

Finally, for an on-ceiling option, I can recommend the highly versatile OWM5 ($200/ea).


ETA: If you are looking for additional feedback on Polk Audio speakers, feel free to drop in to the dedicated thread here.

Living Room: Sony XBR-65Z9D; Oppo UDP-203; Nvidia Shield TV; Roku Ultra; Denon AVR-X8500H (9.1.4/13.1); Polk Audio RTiA7 (Fl/r), CSiA6 (C), RTiA5 (Sl/r & FW), OWM5 (SB), 80F/X-RT (FH, RH); SVS SB-2000 (SW)
Bedroom: Sony XBR-55HX929, DarbeeVision DVP 5000S, Amazon Fire TV 4K, Yamaha R-N402 Network Receiver, Polk Audio LSiM703

Last edited by chi_guy50; 07-21-2019 at 04:40 AM.
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post #55030 of 56271 Old 07-21-2019, 07:14 PM
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I have not heard any of the DEMO material...perhaps I should get it … Interesting that my closest to " free from channel" experience was with a DTS-X movie LONDON HAS FALLEN. in the opening scene at the wedding there are birds and wind coming from places in the room that had no speaker...it was very realistic and seem to make the room disappear...it was much more convincing than the action scene that followed .

London has Fallen is a channel based 7.1.4 mix on disc FYI....


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post #55031 of 56271 Old 07-21-2019, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by snookfisher View Post
Do you have a movie or scenes that you would recommend that give you the full atmos experience?

The Dolby Amaze and Leaf Atmos demo trailers.

The alleged demo-worthy movies that I've watched, i.e. Bladerunner 2049, Jupiter Ascending, and Bumblebee all had a lot of sound in the height speakers, but nothing approaching the immersion and cohesiveness of the trailers.
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post #55032 of 56271 Old 07-21-2019, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by chi_guy50 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by paindonthurt View Post
According to Polk CS I should get the 70RT ceiling speakers. I just can’️t see spending $1000 for ceiling speakers.

https://www.polkaudio.com/products/70-rt

How does half that much sound to you ($500 for two pairs)? FWIW, I and many other AVSForum posters have bought slews of refurbished speakers from the Polk Audio eBay store and found them by and large to be indistinguishable from the brand new article.

Or, for slightly less but NIB, you can get the same 80F/X-RT speakers I am using with my RTiA setup.

If you want to go cheaper ($150/pair), many users like the RC80i (although not a timbre-match for your speakers).

Finally, for an on-ceiling option, I can recommend the highly versatile OWM5 ($200/ea).


ETA: If you are looking for additional feedback on Polk Audio speakers, feel free to drop in to the dedicated thread here.
Thanks I’ll look into these. 〽️
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post #55033 of 56271 Old 07-22-2019, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
London has Fallen is a channel based 7.1.4 mix on disc FYI....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

The copy I have is DTS -X
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post #55034 of 56271 Old 07-22-2019, 06:20 AM
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The copy I have is DTS -X
I think he want to let you know, even that's a DTS:X track - which should be "object based" - in this case (and most of the cases) it's channel based (FIX) 7.1.4 track, so no objects.

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post #55035 of 56271 Old 07-22-2019, 06:48 AM
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How is one able to tell if an Atmos/DTS:X mix is object based or channel based like the movie mentioned above?

I read elsewhere (May of been this thread actually) that Disney Atmos movies are locked or something to 7.1.4. Is that the same as being a channel based 7.1.4?
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post #55036 of 56271 Old 07-22-2019, 08:16 AM
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How is one able to tell if an Atmos/DTS:X mix is object based or channel based like the movie mentioned above?
No way to tell with Atmos. Lack of sound from certain speakers (e.g., Wides) could indicate a lack of objects OR maybe the soundtrack does have objects but not at those locations. There's no way to tell for sure.

With DTS:X, the info screen on Yamaha gear used to show channel configuration and number of objects:



I don't know of any other brand that displays this information (don't even know if newer Yamaha models still do).
Quote:
I read elsewhere (May of been this thread actually) that Disney Atmos movies are locked or something to 7.1.4. Is that the same as being a channel based 7.1.4?
Close enough. The home version of Atmos is 7.1 channels plus (up to) 16 objects. Since there are only 7.1 channels, that means the 4 overhead channels are technically static objects that don't move AND are assigned to a speaker location (rather than a location in 3D space). Since those overhead objects behave exactly like channels, I just call them channels.

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post #55037 of 56271 Old 07-22-2019, 08:25 AM
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Question

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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post



I don't know of any other brand that displays this information (don't even know if newer Yamaha models still do).
I never saw anything like that at the info bar (Yamaha RX-A2080). For Atmos/DTS:X, only show Atmos/DTS:X, but no speaker layout or objects. Should I see this at only BluRay or with Media files too (m2ts, MKV)? I don't have any DTS:X disc to check.

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post #55038 of 56271 Old 07-22-2019, 08:53 AM
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I think he want to let you know, even that's a DTS:X track - which should be "object based" - in this case (and most of the cases) it's channel based (FIX) 7.1.4 track, so no objects.

If that's the case.. WTF is the point??! and if its the most convincing material ive heard yet...what does that say for the format??
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post #55039 of 56271 Old 07-22-2019, 08:54 AM
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The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renatto View Post
I never saw anything like that at the info bar (Yamaha RX-A2080). For Atmos/DTS:X, only show Atmos/DTS:X, but no speaker layout or objects. Should I see this at only BluRay or with Media files too (m2ts, MKV)? I don't have any DTS:X disc to check.

They took that info out after it’s appearance in only one model year.... IIRC it was only on the x060 series...

I think it’s fairly obvious why they took it out.

Last edited by FilmMixer; 07-22-2019 at 09:14 AM.
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post #55040 of 56271 Old 07-22-2019, 08:55 AM
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I never saw anything like that at the info bar (Yamaha RX-A2080). For Atmos/DTS:X, only show Atmos/DTS:X, but no speaker layout or objects. Should I see this at only BluRay or with Media files too (m2ts, MKV)? I don't have any DTS:X disc to check.
My Marantz 6011 gives all this info. it tells what the imput sources is and the speakers being used...it says nothing about "object based" or not...
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post #55041 of 56271 Old 07-22-2019, 08:59 AM
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If that's the case.. WTF is the point??! and if its the most convincing material ive heard yet...what does that say for the format??

It says it’s all about the mix... that same mix would replicate the same with an Atmos encode.

You seemed to be equating the sense of immersion you heard in that soundtrack to the belief/feeling it was happening because the soundtrack was made of of multiple dynamic objects... which it is not.
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post #55042 of 56271 Old 07-22-2019, 09:12 AM
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How is one able to tell if an Atmos/DTS:X mix is object based or channel based like the movie mentioned above?

I read elsewhere (May of been this thread actually) that Disney Atmos movies are locked or something to 7.1.4. Is that the same as being a channel based 7.1.4?

All of the immersive mixes started out using objects.... rendering out the mixes into channels (7.1.4 for example) results in the same experience as having the processor do it in real time (if your overheads are designated as front and rear tops...).

In the end it doesn’t really matter unless the playback setup (number of speakers) is greater than the number of channels contained in the payload (a small handful of Atmos titles and almost every DTS:X title to date...)

There are going to be slight differences in how overhead sounds are reproduced depending on whether you have speakers designated as heights or overheads/tops.... so you lose a tiny bit of “spatial panning accuracy...”.

But it’s not really going to kill the experience IMO..


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post #55043 of 56271 Old 07-22-2019, 09:21 AM
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My Marantz 6011 gives all this info. it tells what the imput sources is and the speakers being used...it says nothing about "object based" or not...

I had SR6011 too, but Marantz/Denon - on source side - only shows ATMOS/DTS:X, but no layout + objects (7.1.4 + 5 objects). You see the output, so your speaker layout, but that's not the same...


The good sound depends on the filmmaker and the mix (sound engineer), not because the objects. There are many good movies (sound) simple DD/DTS (without Atmos/DTS:X), while there are many "bad" movies with Atmos/DTS:X (weak sound mixing).
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post #55044 of 56271 Old 07-22-2019, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
They took that info out after it’s appearance in only one model year....
Can't imagine DTS was happy with that feature.

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post #55045 of 56271 Old 07-22-2019, 09:43 AM
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If that's the case.. WTF is the point??!
The point is to have a 3D bubble of sound instead of the old 2D ring of sound around you.
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and if its the most convincing material ive heard yet...what does that say for the format??
It says that the formats are flexible enough to deliver the "most convincing material" you've heard using objects or channels. Which means that audio objects are not an absolute requirement for a great immersive audio mix.
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post #55046 of 56271 Old 07-22-2019, 10:33 AM
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I had SR6011 too, but Marantz/Denon - on source side - only shows ATMOS/DTS:X, but no layout + objects (7.1.4 + 5 objects). You see the output, so your speaker layout, but that's not the same...


The good sound depends on the filmmaker and the mix (sound engineer), not because the objects. There are many good movies (sound) simple DD/DTS (without Atmos/DTS:X), while there are many "bad" movies with Atmos/DTS:X (weak sound mixing).
I admit it...im thoroughly confused. So I think what youre saying is that most atmos and all DTSX is nothing more than taking a 5.1 or 7.1 mix and throwing a few effects into the height channels? is it even possible to get the "object based" experience at home? "objects" are something that can be displayed on an avr's screen? If there are discs available encoded with "objects" and can be rendered in a 7.2.4 system like I have...what are they?

I get that some mixes are better than others...but if most DOLBY DIGITAL DVDs came with no use of the surround channels the format would have flopped... If for all practical applications ATMOS is nothing more thad a modern rendition of the original 1980's DOLBY SOUROUND where it just throws some reverb and "ambiance" into the ceiling.... then im REALLY sorry that I wasted my time and money.
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I admit it...im thoroughly confused. So I think what youre saying is that most atmos and all DTSX is nothing more than taking a 5.1 or 7.1 mix and throwing a few effects into the height channels?

then im REALLY sorry that I wasted my time and money.
Then you should to sorry. :O


Not 5.1 or 7.1, but most of the HOME Atmos/DTS:X uses NO OBJECTS, not even object based, but mixed in fixed channels. (like DTS:X > mostly 7.1.4 and will be upmixed to Your exact home system, so 7.2.4 or for Me it's 5.2.4 and for other just for 5.1....). I don't know why, maybe because the money, maybe just lazy... Maybe someone know it and let us know.

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post #55048 of 56271 Old 07-22-2019, 10:59 AM
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[QUOTE=sdurani;58326326]The point is to have a 3D bubble of sound instead of the old 2D ring of sound around you. It says that the formats are flexible enough to deliver the "most convincing material" you've heard using objects or channels. Which means that audio objects are not an absolute requirement for a great immersive audio mix.[/QUOT

What is an "object" can you direct me somewhere that explains it?

So ive watched so far these movies:

Terminator genisys
olympis has fallen
bs Dracula
infinity war (worst so far)
it (decent effects)
aquaman (had to quit after 10 min movie was so bad lol)
fifth element (maybe best ive heard so far?)
heart of the sea (some cool effects)
valerian (maybe 15min)

Are all these just 7.1.4 mixes? because while I have got a few cool effects I have not yet experienced anything like dolby claims or the movie reviews claim with the "placing sound anywhere in a bubble" free from channels

I have again made sure all my speakers are properly placed and ran audessy eq and then adjusted my height speakers + 3db as suggested. I notice the sound from above more but it is not free from channels...

Is there a list of discs that are mastered with "objects"
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post #55049 of 56271 Old 07-22-2019, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renatto View Post
Then you should to sorry. :O


Not 5.1 or 7.1, but most of the HOME Atmos/DTS:X uses NO OBJECTS, not even object based, but mixed in fixed channels. (like DTS:X > mostly 7.1.4 and will be upmixed to Your exact home system, so 7.2.4 or for Me it's 5.2.4 and for other just for 5.1....). I don't know why, maybe because the money, maybe just lazy... Maybe someone know it and let us know.

So all of the reviewers are full of #@#% then ? and the only way to experience "object based atmos" is at a theater of a dolby demo?? Man do I feel like a chump and a fool that has been separated from my money....
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post #55050 of 56271 Old 07-22-2019, 11:12 AM
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. Which means that audio objects are not an absolute requirement for a great immersive audio mix.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps.. but I have yet to hear what I would consider "great immersive audio" One bird doesn't make a great mix..and ive heard similar effects without the height channels...if what you say is true then ATMOS for the home is barely more than a gimmick... so much so that it would make BOSE envious!
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