The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 1853 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #55561 of 58655 Old 09-12-2019, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by solarrdadd View Post
nope, not today either. I thought for sure it was going to be today, my TCL's got an update for Prime and I was praying it was for Carnival Row, but, it's still only DD+ which still sounds damn good with DSU on. I am glad it's gotten green lit for Season 2.



hope they have the sound together by then!

I spoke to Amazon today. No update. Hoping to have a final ETA tomorrow.

No one is more bummed than me.
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post #55562 of 58655 Old 09-12-2019, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Mecak View Post
For now, Carnival Row in plain 5.1 UpMixed to 7.1.4 with Neural:X sounds amazing.

Thank you.
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post #55563 of 58655 Old 09-13-2019, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
100% -- as I was doing these tests I was thinking to myself that some of these "underutilized" or "fixed" sounding Atmos mixes could in part be due to this specific phenomenon. The mixer expects the musical score or the explosion to spread through the stereo overhead beds, but at home it just locks into the single pair of speakers. So if you just did some brief tests it would be easy to assume there's nothing in the other overheads, but when panning object effects are used they do pass through additional speaker.
What's weird is the effect you describe seems to be related to what I experienced with M:I Fallout, yet with the opposite result. In that movie, my Front Heights and Rear Heights were constantly active, but the Top Middles were mostly silent except for the rare discrete sound panning through them.

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post #55564 of 58655 Old 09-13-2019, 09:35 AM
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I've confused myself reading this thread. I have four Polk OWM3 speakers attached to the ceiling and angled towards the MLP. They are in alignment with the main L/R, not near the walls. In my Yamaha 3070, I have them configured as 'overhead' for Atmos and switch them to 'heights' for DTS:X.

Since these aren't in-ceiling facing down speakers, should I configure them as heights regardless of content?

Does anyone know what a receiver does differently between the two settings? And does YPAO (Yamaha's version of Audyssey) need to be run again if this is changed?
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post #55565 of 58655 Old 09-13-2019, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Wolfer View Post
I've confused myself reading this thread. I have four Polk OWM3 speakers attached to the ceiling and angled towards the MLP. They are in alignment with the main L/R, not near the walls. In my Yamaha 3070, I have them configured as 'overhead' for Atmos and switch them to 'heights' for DTS:X.

Since these aren't in-ceiling facing down speakers, should I configure them as heights regardless of content?

Does anyone know what a receiver does differently between the two settings? And does YPAO (Yamaha's version of Audyssey) need to be run again if this is changed?

Tops for Atmos, Heights for DTS: X. I'm not sure if YPAO gets screwed up by doing this.
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post #55566 of 58655 Old 09-13-2019, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Tops for Atmos, Heights for DTS: X. I'm not sure if YPAO gets screwed up by doing this.

I am curious as well as to what exactly changes. I have Denon 6500H. What would we notice in having ceiling mounted speakers assigned as tops when listening to DTS:X or listening to Atmos with assigned as heights. Would it be something that would be noticeable?


If having 4 ceiling mounted and you wanted to leave just one setting for convenience is one better than the other in playing both formats?


Thanks
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post #55567 of 58655 Old 09-13-2019, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by blb1215 View Post
I am curious as well as to what exactly changes. I have Denon 6500H. What would we notice in having ceiling mounted speakers assigned as tops when listening to DTS:X or listening to Atmos with assigned as heights. Would it be something that would be noticeable?


If having 4 ceiling mounted and you wanted to leave just one setting for convenience is one better than the other in playing both formats?


Thanks

With DTS: X, the overhead fixed objects (basically channels) start leaking into the lower level speakers if you use Tops. It's all screwy because DTS: X Heights and Dolby Atmos Tops fall along the same recommended positioning plane. DTS should have allowed their Heights to work with the Tops designation for compatibility sake.
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post #55568 of 58655 Old 09-13-2019, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Tops for Atmos, Heights for DTS: X. I'm not sure if YPAO gets screwed up by doing this.
It doesn't, since the speaker locations (and therefore their calibration/equalization) aren't changing. Yamaha has presets that can store configurations, so you can make up a preset where those speakers are labeled Heights and copy them to a preset where those same speakers are labeled Overheads (Yamaha's name for Tops).
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post #55569 of 58655 Old 09-13-2019, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
With DTS: X, the overhead fixed objects (basically channels) start leaking into the lower level speakers if you use Tops. It's all screwy because DTS: X Heights and Dolby Atmos Tops fall along the same recommended positioning plane. DTS should have allowed their Heights to work with the Tops designation for compatibility sake.

With Atmos, what happens when tops are assigned as heights? Any negative affect?


Thanks
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post #55570 of 58655 Old 09-13-2019, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by blb1215 View Post
With Atmos, what happens when tops are assigned as heights? Any negative affect?


Thanks

Objects position slightly differently. I don't think it's quite as dramatic as DTS: X. The trouble is that it shouldn't have happened in the first place.
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post #55571 of 58655 Old 09-13-2019, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
I spoke to Amazon today. No update. Hoping to have a final ETA tomorrow.

No one is more bummed than me.
What I find most interesting is that Jack Ryan, day one, streamed both DV & ATMOS with no problems. Yet Carnival Row can’t yet pass ATMOS. No, I don’t wanna hear (no pun intended ) that it’s two different shows either; if both have ATMOS, both should stream it. Hell, Suspiria also streams both with no issues from day one. I’m just not inclined to believe Prime on this one. I mean this is one of their biggest most ambitious shows this year and the audio doesn’t work right?

Also, slightly unrelated, I do wish Prime would include the ATMOS label next to the standard 5.1 for titles that support it.

I will be the first to apologize and thank A Prime if it starts streaming ATMOS for this title before S2 drops.

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post #55572 of 58655 Old 09-13-2019, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Objects position slightly differently. I don't think it's quite as dramatic as DTS: X. The trouble is that it shouldn't have happened in the first place.



Thanks. Based on this it appears the "best set it and forget it" compromise is to set the ceiling mounted speakers as front height and rear height. Is that correct?
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post #55573 of 58655 Old 09-13-2019, 01:21 PM
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The Yamaha 3070 manual says to use height for speakers mounted on the front/rear walls, and overhead for speakers mounted to the ceiling, so I guess I'm doing it right even though my speakers are not in the ceiling, but on.
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post #55574 of 58655 Old 09-13-2019, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by blb1215 View Post
With Atmos, what happens when tops are assigned as heights?
The Atmos renderer thinks that Heights are at the very front & rear of your speaker layout while Tops are inward of those speaker locations.

Suppose your 4 overhead speakers are labeled Tops:



If you play Atmos signals intended for the Tops locations, they will image from where the speakers are:



If you re-label them as Heights, then the Atmos renderer will try to phantom image those sounds inward of those speaker locations, where it thinks the Tops should be:



The sound is still on the ceiling, as intended, just moved slightly. By comparison, the Tops label will cause the DTS:X renderer to bleed some of the height information downward to the floor speakers in an attempt to phantom image those sounds slightly lower, where it thinks the Heights should be. So if you can't switch easily between labels, then the Heights label is the lesser compromise.
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post #55575 of 58655 Old 09-13-2019, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by solarrdadd View Post
What I find most interesting is that Jack Ryan, day one, streamed both DV & ATMOS with no problems. Yet Carnival Row can’t yet pass ATMOS. No, I don’t wanna hear (no pun intended ) that it’s two different shows either; if both have ATMOS, both should stream it. Hell, Suspiria also streams both with no issues from day one. I’m just not inclined to believe Prime on this one. I mean this is one of their biggest most ambitious shows this year and the audio doesn’t work right?



Also, slightly unrelated, I do wish Prime would include the ATMOS label next to the standard 5.1 for titles that support it.



I will be the first to apologize and thank A Prime if it starts streaming ATMOS for this title before S2 drops.

Jack Ryan was finished differently than CR, and they have since made some back end changes to their encoding platform. Susperia was also done pre changes.

I’ve spoken to Amazon Studios. I know what the issues are. Once the problem is solved I feel confident this type of delay won’t happen again.

It is on its way.... very very soon.
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post #55576 of 58655 Old 09-13-2019, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
Jack Ryan was finished differently than CR, and they have since made some back end changes to their encoding platform. Susperia was also done pre changes.

I’ve spoken to Amazon Studios. I know what the issues are. Once the problem is solved I feel confident this type of delay won’t happen again.

It is on its way.... very very soon.
Are the issues something that might be of interest to this group or is it something boring like files not being placed where they should have been? Or maybe even proprietary info that's not to be shared?
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post #55577 of 58655 Old 09-13-2019, 09:36 PM
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The Yamaha 3070 manual says to use height for speakers mounted on the front/rear walls, and overhead for speakers mounted to the ceiling, so I guess I'm doing it right even though my speakers are not in the ceiling, but on.
That sounds correct. I would consider in ceiling and on ceiling the as the same thing.

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post #55578 of 58655 Old 09-14-2019, 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
Jack Ryan was finished differently than CR, and they have since made some back end changes to their encoding platform.
I tried to load both tonight and got errors on an Apple 4K--they wouldn't play at all. Other shows loaded just fine. Hopefully they get it figured out soon. I did watch CR BTW, and it sounded very good, even without Atmos (used Neural:X).


Do you happen to know (or can you say if you do) if The Expanse is getting Atmos on the upcoming season? Perfect show for it.
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post #55579 of 58655 Old 09-14-2019, 03:12 AM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
Jack Ryan was finished differently than CR, and they have since made some back end changes to their encoding platform. Susperia was also done pre changes.

I’ve spoken to Amazon Studios. I know what the issues are. Once the problem is solved I feel confident this type of delay won’t happen again.

It is on its way.... very very soon.


... and while they are on it it would be really great if they implement it in a way that works in all countries. Jack Ryan is still only available in 5.1 here. I am eager to get my first atmos show on Amazon. CR would be great for that.
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post #55580 of 58655 Old 09-14-2019, 03:18 AM
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... and while they are on it it would be really great if they implement it in a way that works in all countries. Jack Ryan is still only available in 5.1 here. I am eager to get my first atmos show on Amazon. CR would be great for that.

And which country are you from?


We didn't get Jack Ryan in Atmos on Amazon Prime until I contacted them and complained.


Suddenly the next day, BAM! Jack Ryan in Atmos in Australia. They just had to enable it in our region.

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post #55581 of 58655 Old 09-14-2019, 03:48 AM
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And which country are you from?


We didn't get Jack Ryan in Atmos on Amazon Prime until I contacted them and complained.


Suddenly the next day, BAM! Jack Ryan in Atmos in Australia. They just had to enable it in our region.


I am in Germany. When the show was released I complained as well. However, they told me that it was not worth the effort based on the limited demand. They said they would escalate it, but when I checked the other day it still was 5.1 only.
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post #55582 of 58655 Old 09-14-2019, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
Jack Ryan was finished differently than CR, and they have since made some back end changes to their encoding platform. Susperia was also done pre changes.

I’ve spoken to Amazon Studios. I know what the issues are. Once the problem is solved I feel confident this type of delay won’t happen again.

It is on its way.... very very soon.
Yestarday I had Carnival Row in Amazon Prime, But just today I have not available Carnival Row. The App shows the Series but no option available to play any episode.

Are they updating the files and have broken everything?

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Originally Posted by Craig Mecak View Post
And which country are you from?

We didn't get Jack Ryan in Atmos on Amazon Prime until I contacted them and complained.

Suddenly the next day, BAM! Jack Ryan in Atmos in Australia. They just had to enable it in our region.
It's disgusting that you had to complain for them to flick that switch. Absolutely disgusting. Who are these people that do this?

Are you talking about a German dubbed version in Atmos, @anothermib ? I think that would be their only excuse for saying "not worth the effort based on the limited demand". Of course, sometimes they deliberately mis-understand you, even if you were clearly asking about the English language Atmos version, and pretend that "not enough German users have Atmos for it to be worth it", which is of course ridiculous.

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The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AYanguas View Post
Yestarday I had Carnival Row in Amazon Prime, But just today I have not available Carnival Row. The App shows the Series but no option available to play any episode.



Are they updating the files and have broken everything?
EDIT: as of right now the shows are working again. But still no CR Atmos.

Last edited by FilmMixer; 09-14-2019 at 07:07 AM.
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post #55585 of 58655 Old 09-14-2019, 12:08 PM
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Yestarday I had Carnival Row in Amazon Prime, But just today I have not available Carnival Row. The App shows the Series but no option available to play any episode.

Are they updating the files and have broken everything?
I noticed something similar when I checked for Carnival Row Atmos availability the other day, the app acted as if I didn't have a Prime account and wouldn't allow me to play the first 3 episodes but would let me play the 4th. Sadly, this behavior is not all that unusual for Amazon.

On a positive note, I've read that they've finally got both the 4K and 1080p SD version of a title in the same menu location. I wonder how many planets they had to move to make that happen?
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On a positive note, I've read that they've finally got both the 4K and 1080p SD version of a title in the same menu location. I wonder how many planets they had to move to make that happen?[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]
What do you mean?
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post #55587 of 58655 Old 09-14-2019, 04:11 PM
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On a positive note, I've read that they've finally got both the 4K and 1080p SD version of a title in the same menu location. I wonder how many planets they had to move to make that happen?
Screenshots, please! This would be HUGE if they've finally done it.

However, the fact that you mention "both versions", plural, fills me with dread. If, after all this time, they still have "separate versions" exposed to the UI, the user - and all they've done is move them around a bit - then they have totally missed the point of all the problems caused by doubling the number of titles in their catalogue...

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post #55588 of 58655 Old 09-14-2019, 04:15 PM
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What do you mean?
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Screenshots, please! This would be HUGE if they've finally done it.

However, the fact that you mention "both versions", plural, fills me with dread. If, after all this time, they still have "separate versions" exposed to the UI, the user - and all they've done is move them around a bit - then they have totally missed the point of all the problems caused by doubling the number of titles in their catalogue...
I'll have to find the post, I believe I saw it in the Fire Stick thread but I'm not 100% positive about that.

Okay, I'm not sure how long this button has been there but in the images below you can see the "More Ways to Watch" button which when selected brings up the following image which shows the different versions of the title.
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post #55589 of 58655 Old 09-14-2019, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
I noticed something similar when I checked for Carnival Row Atmos availability the other day, the app acted as if I didn't have a Prime account and wouldn't allow me to play the first 3 episodes but would let me play the 4th. Sadly, this behavior is not all that unusual for Amazon.

On a positive note, I've read that they've finally got both the 4K and 1080p SD version of a title in the same menu location. I wonder how many planets they had to move to make that happen?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeonstar View Post
What do you mean?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
I'll have to find the post, I believe I saw it in the Fire Stick thread but I'm not 100% positive about that.

Okay, I'm not sure how long this button has been there but in the images below you can see the "More Ways to Watch" button which when selected brings up the following image which shows the different versions of the title.
Keenan, the only way this will be helpful to more people is if you tell us on what are you getting the app and what the app version is.

example, i'm streaming on Roku OS on TCL and my Prime App version is 11.0 build 2019090617
I suspect different TV OS's might have different versions of this (and other) app.

also, my version of the app does not give the option box to select between UHD and HDR in the same place, also, my version doesn't show the seasons by number to select, I have to go to a separate menu that says "seasons" and click on it then once there select which season i want to watch. yours is laid out very nice, but, I don't think everyone has the same version as you. myself, like many of us, we have to sometimes search for the UHD versions of a show. nobody knows why amazon does that.

so, where is your app coming from and what version is it? same for everyone asking. we might all have different versions of this thing given our OS and the tv make.

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Last edited by solarrdadd; 09-14-2019 at 07:49 PM.
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post #55590 of 58655 Old 09-14-2019, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solarrdadd View Post
Keenan, the only way this will be helpful to more people is if you tell us on what are you getting the app and what the app version is.

example, i'm streaming on Roku OS on TCL and my Prime App version is 11.0 build 2019090617
I suspect different TV OS's might have different versions of this (and other) app.

also, my version of the app does not give the option box to select between UHD and HDR in the same place, also, my version doesn't show the seasons by number to select, I have to go to a separate menu that says "seasons" and click on it then once there select which season i want to watch. yours is laid out very nice, but, I don't think everyone has the same version as you. myself, like many of us, we have to sometimes search for the UHD versions of a show. nobody knows why amazon does that.

so, where is your app coming from and what version is it? same for everyone asking. we might all have different versions of this thing given our OS and the tv make.
It appears that it's only available on Fire TV devices so far. I checked a Roku Ultra, an Apple TV 4K and the Prime app on an Android-powered Sony OLED and only the Fire Stick had the More Ways button.

The Fire TV Stick software version is: 6.2.6.5(NS6265/2157)

BTW, further discussion of the Prime app should probably be done in the Fire TV device thread,
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-ne...l#post58559422

Last edited by Keenan; 09-14-2019 at 11:55 PM.
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