The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 1855 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #55621 of 58861 Old 09-19-2019, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by westbergjoakim View Post
Is that also the case when you upmixing a 5.1 or 7.1-movie to say 7.1.4 with DD Surround or Neural:X? You get sound up there, mostly songs and ambience, but sometimes I feel like it's bleeding down or that the sound are in both front and tops/heights.
When you apply DSU or Neural:X to a 5.1 or 7.1 track, sounds bleed in only one direction: up. It's possible that some of the sounds upmixed to the height layer speakers are not completely cancelled from the base layer speakers, so those particular sounds could be present in the Fronts and Tops/Heights. But that's not height information bleeding down, because there is no height information in 5.1/7.1 tracks.
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post #55622 of 58861 Old 09-20-2019, 02:25 PM
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nVidia Shield Carnival Row is streaming in Atmos & HDR10 now.
It doesn't streaming Atmos in Sweden on Shield yet

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post #55623 of 58861 Old 09-20-2019, 02:50 PM
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After all the talk of Carnival Row here I did check it out. The Atmos feed is phenomenal, the story not so much, one and done for me.
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post #55624 of 58861 Old 09-20-2019, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by westbergjoakim View Post
It doesn't streaming Atmos in Sweden on Shield yet

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Only US and U.K./GB now.


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post #55625 of 58861 Old 09-20-2019, 03:09 PM
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Only US and U.K./GB now.


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Ah, that's too bad! Do you know if they will later or not at all?

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post #55626 of 58861 Old 09-20-2019, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Matt L View Post
After all the talk of Carnival Row here I did check it out. The Atmos feed is phenomenal, the story not so much, one and done for me.

It had potential. The story and acting (mostly by Orlando - who comes across as a plank of curmudgeony wood) is just serviceable. Surprisingly enough, the stand out performance is by Cara Delevingne who genuinely puts real effort into squeezing some heart out of fairly bland dialog. The reason I say that is because most every other role she's done has been awful as she's been cast so often because of her looks rather than acting chops). Maybe she had some acting lessons between then and now.
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post #55627 of 58861 Old 09-21-2019, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
Only US and U.K./GB now.


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Sucks that it not in ATMOS in Canada, yet. You would think, with the time and effort that they put into making an ATMOS track, that they would push it out to as many countries as possible.
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post #55628 of 58861 Old 09-21-2019, 05:21 PM
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After all the talk of Carnival Row here I did check it out. The Atmos feed is phenomenal, the story not so much, one and done for me.
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post #55629 of 58861 Old 09-21-2019, 08:35 PM
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Watching Star Trek 4K Trilogy with Dolby Atmos. What a wonderful use of the Atmos channels IMO. There are moments during the movie that I find myself ducking out of the way of phasers and other objects. Glad I purchased this 4K trilogy.
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post #55630 of 58861 Old 09-22-2019, 12:52 PM
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Very slight off topic Question on Dynamic EQ on Denon X4500...
Im sure most are familiar with the Amaze Atmos demo clip with lightning thunder and rain. Well, with the DQ turned ON, it sounds great and the rain is amazing from up top. But with it OFF, rain tames off by 50% or so, however, there's a lightning bolt in the clip that sounds Phenomenal there. So, do most ppl use the DQ or not and i feel like it has nothing to do with night time listening as they're doing much more different things than just rounding eveything at a low level.

Another example is the 2nd chapter song in the SpiderVerse movie and when Miles runs off to his Uncle. With the D EQ off, the amplifer kicked on by the uncle clearly has much pronounced effects on the music and bass and with it on, that difference is much more tame but i wonder what else is then missing.

I could give a few more examples of vice versa stuff and feel like one is clearly not better than the other but would love to get everyone's opinions. Thanks!

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post #55631 of 58861 Old 09-23-2019, 03:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b0rnarian View Post
Very slight off topic Question on Dynamic EQ on Denon X4500...
Im sure most are familiar with the Amaze Atmos demo clip with lightning thunder and rain. Well, with the DQ turned ON, it sounds great and the rain is amazing from up top. But with it OFF, rain tames off by 50% or so, however, there's a lightning bolt in the clip that sounds Phenomenal there. So, do most ppl use the DQ or not and i feel like it has nothing to do with night time listening as they're doing much more different things than just rounding eveything at a low level.

Another example is the 2nd chapter song in the SpiderVerse movie and when Miles runs off to his Uncle. With the D EQ off, the amplifer kicked on by the uncle clearly has much pronounced effects on the music and bass and with it on, that difference is much more tame but i wonder what else is then missing.

I could give a few more examples of vice versa stuff and feel like one is clearly not better than the other but would love to get everyone's opinions. Thanks!
I always though the DEQ didn't touch the height later... only the rear and side layer as well as a little more punch to the bass

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post #55632 of 58861 Old 09-23-2019, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b0rnarian View Post
Very slight off topic Question on Dynamic EQ on Denon X4500...
Im sure most are familiar with the Amaze Atmos demo clip with lightning thunder and rain. Well, with the DQ turned ON, it sounds great and the rain is amazing from up top. But with it OFF, rain tames off by 50% or so, however, there's a lightning bolt in the clip that sounds Phenomenal there. So, do most ppl use the DQ or not and i feel like it has nothing to do with night time listening as they're doing much more different things than just rounding eveything at a low level.

Another example is the 2nd chapter song in the SpiderVerse movie and when Miles runs off to his Uncle. With the D EQ off, the amplifer kicked on by the uncle clearly has much pronounced effects on the music and bass and with it on, that difference is much more tame but i wonder what else is then missing.

I could give a few more examples of vice versa stuff and feel like one is clearly not better than the other but would love to get everyone's opinions. Thanks!
Ive been using DEQ for 10 years. I’ve been experimenting with DEQ and MultiEQ limited to 300hz on my Denon 4300 since moving my modules to top middle. In my room which is treated when DEQ is on the Atmos speakers aren’t as pronounced. It does sound fuller with DEQ but the bass and surround channels sometimes drown out the detail.

I demod Bladerunner 2049 at -15bd with MultiEQ full range, DEQ on and then MultiEQ limited to 300hz with DEQ off.

My results:
With DEQ ON the bass and surrounds were very aggressive, too much so. Bass was bloated, I could hear the rafters shake. The Atmos speakers weren’t as defined. Sure they still sounded fuller but I missed nuances. Dialogue was a bit muddy.

Turning off DEQ and limiting MultiEQ to 300hz was more balanced. Bass was sublime. Impactful but had more detail. My Atmos channels sounded more dynamic and precise. The surrounds sounded better as well. More balanced. Dialogue was crystal clear.

I’m leaving DEQ off with MultiEQ limited to 300hz. It sounds more accurate and more cinematic in my room.

It really depends on your speakers and room. I have Klipsch RP’s that are very articulate. When I EQ them with a rolloff they aren’t as clear.
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post #55633 of 58861 Old 09-23-2019, 07:16 AM
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The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCableMan View Post
I always though the DEQ didn't touch the height later... only the rear and side layer as well as a little more punch to the bass


Iirc, Deq boosts the rear height speakers just the same asthe side and rear surrounds. It does not boost the front heights. It does also affect bass. To me this seems like a bad idea for the height layer.

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post #55634 of 58861 Old 09-23-2019, 07:52 AM
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That is right. I thought DEQ was okay for typical surround sound 5.1/7.1 but it’s not as good for Atmos. I wonder if Audyssey will be revising to align with Atmos but that could be messy. Basically all channels would be bumped up. All but the Center and mains.
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post #55635 of 58861 Old 09-23-2019, 08:55 AM
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Audyssey already did revise to align with Atmos, that was a mandatory requirement five years ago when Atmos came to consumer AVRs.

The had to add support for "Atmos enabled" up-firing speakers by modified the target curve to accommodate HRTF squiggle and also compensating for distance/delay on the bounce, and they updated Dyn EQ to also include rear height speakers in the surround boost because they are also behind you (so the same logic, often criticized, which they apple to surrounds also applies to rear heights).

So this is the finished product, don't get yer hopes up for additional tweaks, other than the Audyssey app (which seems to have been more driven by D+M than Audyssey themselves) Audyssey has shown zero signs that they are going to further develop MultEQ or other consumer AVR technologies.
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post #55636 of 58861 Old 09-23-2019, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosstg View Post
Ive been using DEQ for 10 years. I’ve been experimenting with DEQ and MultiEQ limited to 300hz on my Denon 4300 since moving my modules to top middle. In my room which is treated when DEQ is on the Atmos speakers aren’t as pronounced. It does sound fuller with DEQ but the bass and surround channels sometimes drown out the detail.



I demod Bladerunner 2049 at -15bd with MultiEQ full range, DEQ on and then MultiEQ limited to 300hz with DEQ off.



My results:

With DEQ ON the bass and surrounds were very aggressive, too much so. Bass was bloated, I could hear the rafters shake. The Atmos speakers weren’t as defined. Sure they still sounded fuller but I missed nuances. Dialogue was a bit muddy.



Turning off DEQ and limiting MultiEQ to 300hz was more balanced. Bass was sublime. Impactful but had more detail. My Atmos channels sounded more dynamic and precise. The surrounds sounded better as well. More balanced. Dialogue was crystal clear.



I’m leaving DEQ off with MultiEQ limited to 300hz. It sounds more accurate and more cinematic in my room.



It really depends on your speakers and room. I have Klipsch RP’s that are very articulate. When I EQ them with a rolloff they aren’t as clear.
Curious to know your listening volume. Few like me listen to very low to medium volume 40-60 db n 0-100 scale. DQ on helps a lot, and turned off it's more front heavy sound and surrounds and heights barely producing any.

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post #55637 of 58861 Old 09-23-2019, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polyrythm1k View Post
Iirc, Deq boosts the rear height speakers just the same asthe side and rear surrounds. It does not boost the front heights. It does also affect bass. To me this seems like a bad idea for the height layer.
You are 100% right, the setup did boost the rear heights (only technicality is that it was the Dynamic Volume to "Yes" that boosted the Rear heights to 3+ DBs on the levels itself. My SVS Prime Elevation Front and Rear Heights are equal distance from the MLP but rear were set higher and sounded much louder as well. Are you saying, that's where the Dynamic EQ ended or does it boost the rears even more when set to LIGHT, Med, or Heavy on DEQ without seeing an actual number on the settings?

Regardless, as the above poster, I usually listed to Medium volume (Not in a dedicated HT yet to go Reference) and with the DEQ ON the rain from above and pretty much everything else sounds great but also messes up the sound a bit cuz the fronts are 3 DB lower. And in that one Atmos Demo Clip, the lighting bolt was def. weak. Should i just bump the DBs on the front heights myself or better to listen with DEQ Off? I know I miss a lot of little sounds with DEQ off as they need to be turned up really high to be able to notice them but I cant really do that either.

Another example of this is: the Logos in the beginning of the Dark Knight (I know not an atmos track) but there's a ticking sound on the DC logo before the Joker's razer sound. You can hardly hear it at all with DEQ Off but with DEQ ON its right there. Any help is appreciated!

OR Better yet, do I need to Re-run Audessey and say no to Dynamic Vol. so that the Rear Heights dont get boosted and listen to everything with DEQ Off?

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post #55638 of 58861 Old 09-23-2019, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by murlidher View Post
Curious to know your listening volume. Few like me listen to very low to medium volume 40-60 db n 0-100 scale. DQ on helps a lot, and turned off it's more front heavy sound and surrounds and heights barely producing any.

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For critical listening between -15 - -10db.

Again, I have used DEQ for 10 years so I got used to the heavy bass sound. Even the folks at SVS say to use it but it’s creating more problems in my room now that I have Atmos speakers. I found it more useful when I was in apartments and needed the volume low.

I have always disliked the boosted surround channels though. If it’s an aggressive mix like say JW, Aquaman, Bladerunner I don’t see the need in my room. I’m also not a huge fan of EQ full range these days so there is that too.

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post #55639 of 58861 Old 09-23-2019, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Audyssey already did revise to align with Atmos, that was a mandatory requirement five years ago when Atmos came to consumer AVRs.

The had to add support for "Atmos enabled" up-firing speakers by modified the target curve to accommodate HRTF squiggle and also compensating for distance/delay on the bounce, and they updated Dyn EQ to also include rear height speakers in the surround boost because they are also behind you (so the same logic, often criticized, which they apple to surrounds also applies to rear heights).

So this is the finished product, don't get yer hopes up for additional tweaks, other than the Audyssey app (which seems to have been more driven by D+M than Audyssey themselves) Audyssey has shown zero signs that they are going to further develop MultEQ or other consumer AVR technologies.
Yes sorry that’s right. I knew about the new curve for up firing.

Interesting about the rear height channels. I won’t have mine installed until December so I’ll have to wait.

Curious, do you use DEQ? I think I recall that you limit MultiEQ as well.
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post #55640 of 58861 Old 09-23-2019, 10:12 AM
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I use Dynamic Volume + Dynamic EQ for late night listening when I don't want to disturb sleeping wife+kids. However, I set the Ref Level Offset for DEQ to 15dB to minimize the surround boost (and I don't need boomy bass late at night either).

When I have no volume restrictions, I have all the dynamic stuff turned off since I'm listening loud enough that I don't need it.

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post #55641 of 58861 Old 09-23-2019, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
I use Dynamic Volume + Dynamic EQ for late night listening when I don't want to disturb sleeping wife+kids. However, I set the Ref Level Offset for DEQ to 15dB to minimize the surround boost (and I don't need boomy bass late at night either).

When I have no volume restrictions, I have all the dynamic stuff turned off since I'm listening loud enough that I don't need it.
Makes sense. When you do not use DEQ how many dB do you boost your subs?

Oddly enough I emailed Audyssey last night on the subject of DEQ and Atmos and they replied saying all channels are affected.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b0rnarian View Post
You are 100% right, the setup did boost the rear heights (only technicality is that it was the Dynamic Volume to "Yes" that boosted the Rear heights to 3+ DBs on the levels itself. My SVS Prime Elevation Front and Rear Heights are equal distance from the MLP but rear were set higher and sounded much louder as well. Are you saying, that's where the Dynamic EQ ended or does it boost the rears even more when set to LIGHT, Med, or Heavy on DEQ without seeing an actual number on the settings?
You're being sloppy with your terminology and it's confusing things. Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume are NOT the same thing at all. Dynamic EQ does NOT have a "light / medium / heavy" setting, that's Dynamic Volume.

Dynamic EQ does two things: (1) it adjusts the frequency response to compensate for variable human hearing sensitivity (google "equal loudness curves"), the boost is mostly to the bass but it also does boost the highs a bit too, and this boost is constantly varying depending on the volume setting and the moment-to-moment analysis of the program content; (2) and it also applies a fixed volume boost to "rear" speakers (surrounds + rear overheads) which only varies based on the master volume level, not dynamic analysis of content. The only setting which impacts Dyn EQ is the "Reference Level Offset", since Dynamic EQ adjusts its boost based on how far below "reference level" you are on the master volume dial. The goal of Dynamic EQ is to keep the tonal balance and surround envelopment constant as the volume drops, it does NOT compress volume swings or reduce loud sounds for late night listening.

Dynamic Volume is the one that modulates dynamic range to improve late night listening when you don't want big swings between loud and soft parts. It both raises the sound in soft passages and also reduces the sound in loud passages, which allows you to turn the volume to a comfortable level to hear dialogue without blowing out the room when the explosions start. It does this in a more sophisticated way than typical simple compression schemes, as it's constantly analyzing the content and "looking ahead" a few milliseconds to anticipate swings and adjust the volume; it's almost like an invisible gremlin inside your receiver constantly adjusting the volume control for you. The light / medium / heavy setting controls how aggressively it clamps down on swings in volume.

Note that when Dynamic Volume is on, it will make it appear that everything is louder in non-action scenes because it's boosting the soft sounds. With Dyn Vol off, listening at -40 will be barely audible, but if you turn it on suddenly dialogue sounds a lot louder. That's normal.

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post #55643 of 58861 Old 09-23-2019, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
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Makes sense. When you do not use DEQ how many dB do you boost your subs?
I boost the subs about 3dB, which works well with the slight downward tilt I try to dial in for my LCR speakers. Here's a recent measurement of my LCR speakers crossed to the subs (heavy 1/3 smoothing to focus on the general shape). I do have my Harmony remote programmed with a discrete code for Sub Volume Up/Down so I can make tweaks on the fly depending on the content.



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Oddly enough I emailed Audyssey last night on the subject of DEQ and Atmos and they replied saying all channels are affected.
Well, what was the EXACT wording? Remember there are two components to Dynamic EQ, and the loudness comp portion does affect all channels, you have to be specific that you are referring to the Surround boost only.

What's interesting is there is some confusion on the topic, as I asked Chris K on the Audyssey FB page about this and he said that the DEQ surround boost is NOT applied to the overheads. However, people (on this thread I believe) have demonstrated that it DOES appear to be boosting the rear heights. So take a canned reply from Audyssey with a grain of salt.
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post #55644 of 58861 Old 09-23-2019, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
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I boost the subs about 3dB, which works well with the slight downward tilt I try to dial in for my LCR speakers. Here's a recent measurement of my LCR speakers crossed to the subs (heavy 1/3 smoothing to focus on the general shape). I do have my Harmony remote programmed with a discrete code for Sub Volume Up/Down so I can make tweaks on the fly depending on the content.



Interesting. I should look at the remote.

Well, what was the EXACT wording? Remember there are two components to Dynamic EQ, and the loudness comp portion does affect all channels, you have to be specific that you are referring to the Surround boost only.

What's interesting is there is some confusion on the topic, as I asked Chris K on the Audyssey FB page about this and he said that the DEQ surround boost is NOT applied to the overheads. However, people (on this thread I believe) have demonstrated that it DOES appear to be boosting the rear heights. So take a canned reply from Audyssey with a grain of salt.
Yes I was very careful in my wording. I asked if DEQ boosts height channels. I understand the frequency boost but clearly asked about channel volume. They gave me the token “yes DEQ affects all channels” which is why I replied asking specifically about volume. I will report back.
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post #55645 of 58861 Old 09-23-2019, 10:41 AM
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"Yes DEQ affects all channels" is a pretty useless response. Sounds like the support rep didn't really understand the question.

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post #55646 of 58861 Old 09-23-2019, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b0rnarian View Post
You are 100% right, the setup did boost the rear heights (only technicality is that it was the Dynamic Volume to "Yes" that boosted the Rear heights to 3+ DBs on the levels itself. My SVS Prime Elevation Front and Rear Heights are equal distance from the MLP but rear were set higher and sounded much louder as well. Are you saying, that's where the Dynamic EQ ended or does it boost the rears even more when set to LIGHT, Med, or Heavy on DEQ without seeing an actual number on the settings?



Regardless, as the above poster, I usually listed to Medium volume (Not in a dedicated HT yet to go Reference) and with the DEQ ON the rain from above and pretty much everything else sounds great but also messes up the sound a bit cuz the fronts are 3 DB lower. And in that one Atmos Demo Clip, the lighting bolt was def. weak. Should i just bump the DBs on the front heights myself or better to listen with DEQ Off? I know I miss a lot of little sounds with DEQ off as they need to be turned up really high to be able to notice them but I cant really do that either.



Another example of this is: the Logos in the beginning of the Dark Knight (I know not an atmos track) but there's a ticking sound on the DC logo before the Joker's razer sound. You can hardly hear it at all with DEQ Off but with DEQ ON its right there. Any help is appreciated!



OR Better yet, do I need to Re-run Audessey and say no to Dynamic Vol. so that the Rear Heights dont get boosted and listen to everything with DEQ Off?


I’ll defer to @batpig s answer as it’s basically what I was going to say in regards to how Deq and DynamicVolume work. DV makes a soundtrack sound like everything is the same volume with no dynamic range. It’s not responsible for any channel trims.

I don’t use Deq and instead built a house curve into my system and listen at fairly loud levels. I never like how it boosted surround levels at low to medium volumes so much. I do appreciate what it does for bass, but ime the house curve works for that. Haven’t spent a LOT of time with the offsets so in fairness I can’t speak to that.
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post #55647 of 58861 Old 09-23-2019, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
"Yes DEQ affects all channels" is a pretty useless response. Sounds like the support rep didn't really understand the question.
You got that right. They replied with the same response lol. They used to be great but to your point. It’s just maintenance now.

Just glad we have the app.
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post #55648 of 58861 Old 09-23-2019, 11:47 AM
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Reply from Audyssey...

“Level adjustment for surround envelopment will only affect channels described as surround. Subwoofer, middle, wide, and front are not affected”.
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post #55649 of 58861 Old 09-23-2019, 11:56 AM
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Reply from Audyssey...

“Level adjustment for surround envelopment will only affect channels described as surround. Subwoofer, middle, wide, and front are not affected”.
"Middle"? I've never heard anyone refer to the center channel as "middle". Also altering the L and R yet not the center simultaneously means the sound stage which relies on both to place sound images part way between the L and C (and R and center) will be whacked out, but, whatever.

Oh wait, they mean middle on the ceiling. Oops. Never mind.

Last edited by m. zillch; 09-23-2019 at 12:04 PM.
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post #55650 of 58861 Old 09-23-2019, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
"Middle"? I've never heard anyone refer to the center channel as "middle". Also altering the L and R yet not the center simultaneously means the sound stage which relies on both to place sound images part way between the L and C (and R and center) will be whacked out, but, whatever.

Oh wait, they mean on the ceiling. Never mind.
Yes middle is the ceiling channels.

Either way I won’t use DEQ anymore. It just doesn’t jive with Atmos. If I need extra bass I’ll raise my subs 3db.
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