The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 1881 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #56401 of 58862 Old 11-06-2019, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
The receiver should remember your settings (audio mode) for each source and for each type of codec.
If the audio mode is set to AUTO, the receiver should choose the mode using the type of signal/codec.
It is great to know that you hear a benefit when up-mixing 2 ch / 5.1 / 7.1 DD+ content.

Where exactly can I verify the "auto" setting you mention above? Since I only use one input (It is in Cable renamed currently) with the Firestick (Yes it can push Atmos but it is obviously compressed via DD+)

Sorry for the seemingly simple question. I use the colored buttons to change audio modes all the time but I do not see an "auto" option in "movie" ,"music", or "game".

Is it the "ECO Mode" as seen in the attached? Both my Denon & Marantz seem to make it hard to find the "auto sound input setting" even though I feel like I know every setting like the back of my hand after days of trying to achieve decent sound using REW. (I know Audessy does most of this for me but I wanted to learn)
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post #56402 of 58862 Old 11-06-2019, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by kagtha View Post
Where exactly can I verify the "auto" setting you mention above?
You have 4 buttons in the SOUND MODE group on the IR remote - MOVIE, MUSIC, GAME and PURE. The PURE button has an AUTO surround playback feature - press PURE until you select “Auto”.

The AUTO mode detects the type of input digital signal, and automatically selects the corresponding mode for playback. Perform stereo playback when the input signal is PCM. When the input signal is Dolby Digital or DTS, the music is played back according to the respective channel number.
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post #56403 of 58862 Old 11-06-2019, 07:56 AM
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So, the recent talk of ceiling speakers and where they should be positioned (with respect to side walls) has got me thinking/agonizing a bit about how I recently mounted mine.

I *could* move them from where they're mounted currently, but it would involve more drilling into the ceiling, etc...ugh.

My room is 12' wide. Currently I have my front L&R speakers pretty much in the corners since my screen is so large and nearly fills up that 12' width. I followed Dolby's PDF advice and mounted my ceiling speakers pretty much in-line with the front L&R speakers, such that the ceiling speakers are only about 14" away from the wall. I do have reflections in this room (irrespective of Atmos), so at some point I do plan to treat the walls with something to reduce those reflections.

So, yeah, my ceiling speakers are fairly far apart (a little over 8' apart from each other). Things sound good, I've run Audyssey, so I don't know if that will help compensate, but the recent posts have got me thinking. Do I leave well enough alone? Or do I embark on moving the speakers in more so they're in a "tighter rectangle" above the MLP?

Thanks all,

Chris


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post #56404 of 58862 Old 11-06-2019, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
You have 4 buttons in the SOUND MODE group on the IR remote - MOVIE, MUSIC, GAME and PURE. The PURE button has an AUTO surround playback feature - press PURE until you select “Auto”.

The AUTO mode detects the type of input digital signal, and automatically selects the corresponding mode for playback. Perform stereo playback when the input signal is PCM. When the input signal is Dolby Digital or DTS, the music is played back according to the respective channel number.
IT WORKED!!!!!!!!!!!!

OMG I feel stupid now.

Thanks.
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post #56405 of 58862 Old 11-06-2019, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by fatherom View Post
So, the recent talk of ceiling speakers and where they should be positioned (with respect to side walls) has got me thinking/agonizing a bit about how I recently mounted mine.



I *could* move them from where they're mounted currently, but it would involve more drilling into the ceiling, etc...ugh.



My room is 12' wide. Currently I have my front L&R speakers pretty much in the corners since my screen is so large and nearly fills up that 12' width. I followed Dolby's PDF advice and mounted my ceiling speakers pretty much in-line with the front L&R speakers, such that the ceiling speakers are only about 14" away from the wall. I do have reflections in this room (irrespective of Atmos), so at some point I do plan to treat the walls with something to reduce those reflections.



So, yeah, my ceiling speakers are fairly far apart (a little over 8' apart from each other). Things sound good, I've run Audyssey, so I don't know if that will help compensate, but the recent posts have got me thinking. Do I leave well enough alone? Or do I embark on moving the speakers in more so they're in a "tighter rectangle" above the MLP?



Thanks all,



Chris
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post #56406 of 58862 Old 11-06-2019, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Magnus_CA View Post
If it sounds good to you then just enjoy it.
I don't disagree with that philosophy. But it was actually the responses to your posts that got me thinking about all this where the other member suggested you not do 4 speakers (and just do 2), and to change their positioning.

I guess what I wonder is: if I move my speakers in from the wall more, will the change be subtle or revelatory?

I admittedly haven't watched many Atmos movies since getting my setup installed (kids/life getting in the way ... but as we all know (and struggle with), things can always be made better. I guess I just wouldn't be able to know HOW much better it would sound unless I embark on the project of actually moving all 4 speakers.


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post #56407 of 58862 Old 11-06-2019, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by fatherom View Post
I guess what I wonder is: if I move my speakers in from the wall more, will the change be subtle or revelatory?
If the ceiling speakers are nearer to MLP the effects would be "closer" to you, more above you, less diffused, less distanced.
Some want Atmos on steroids.
Some prefer the perfect bubble.

A "perfect" setup will need:
  • a larger room
  • a higher ceiling than the usual
  • all the speakers equidistant to the MLP
  • with acoustic treatments and all the rest...
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post #56408 of 58862 Old 11-06-2019, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by fatherom View Post
So, the recent talk of ceiling speakers and where they should be positioned (with respect to side walls) has got me thinking/agonizing a bit about how I recently mounted mine.

I *could* move them from where they're mounted currently, but it would involve more drilling into the ceiling, etc...ugh.

My room is 12' wide. Currently I have my front L&R speakers pretty much in the corners since my screen is so large and nearly fills up that 12' width. I followed Dolby's PDF advice and mounted my ceiling speakers pretty much in-line with the front L&R speakers, such that the ceiling speakers are only about 14" away from the wall. I do have reflections in this room (irrespective of Atmos), so at some point I do plan to treat the walls with something to reduce those reflections.

So, yeah, my ceiling speakers are fairly far apart (a little over 8' apart from each other). Things sound good, I've run Audyssey, so I don't know if that will help compensate, but the recent posts have got me thinking. Do I leave well enough alone? Or do I embark on moving the speakers in more so they're in a "tighter rectangle" above the MLP?

Thanks all,

Chris

Dolby also recommend heights to be within 0.5 to 0.7 times the width of the room apart.
So for your 12' room they should be 6' to 8'5" apart - or a minimum of 1'10" from the sidewalls.
Yours are currently in spec
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post #56409 of 58862 Old 11-06-2019, 11:04 AM
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Dolby also recommend heights to be within 0.5 to 0.7 times the width of the room apart.

Interesting; seems to me that their spacing should depend on the width of the listening area, not the width of the room.
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post #56410 of 58862 Old 11-06-2019, 11:11 AM
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Interesting; seems to me that their spacing should depend on the width of the listening area, not the width of the room.

I guess they are assuming the room is not much wider than the listening area ??

Now that you mention it - all the diagrams I saw with this recommendation were rectangular rooms with 3' or so either side of the seats.
As I have found out - almost everything is a compromise when it comes to this hobby.........
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post #56411 of 58862 Old 11-06-2019, 11:21 AM
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Interesting; seems to me that their spacing should depend on the width of the listening area, not the width of the room.
The actual text appears to reference the "overall layout", not the room per se.

This is the advise Dolby provides quoting from pg 7 of their Home Atmos installation guide:

Quote:
Figures 3 and 4 show the preferred locations of the four overhead speakers as seen from above. The horizontal width should be about the same as the horizontal separation of left and right speakers placed at ±30 degrees. If this guidance is followed, the overhead side-to-side separation should be 0.5 to 0.7 of the width of the overall layout, depending on the distance to the screen and the front three speakers, relative to the surrounds. It is best to keep the overhead arrangement centered, front to back, over the listening area, even if the front speakers and screen are at a greater distance than the surround speakers.
Remember also that in the commercial cinema the overhead arrays are lined up 1/2 between the Center and the L/R screen speakers.

The render software appears to assume this as well, with the FR/FL speakers and the SBR/SBL speakers forming the boundaries of the "room" and the overheads being at the 1/4 and 3/4 room width points (and, incidentally, the 1/4 and 3/4 room length points for TF/TR speakers), which is probably where the "0.5 to 0.7 the width of the overall layout" advice derives from (as you can see in the middle graphic of this screenshot):


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post #56412 of 58862 Old 11-06-2019, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
The actual text appears to reference the "overall layout", not the room per se.



This is the advise Dolby provides quoting from pg 7 of their Home Atmos installation guide:







Remember also that in the commercial cinema the overhead arrays are lined up 1/2 between the Center and the L/R screen speakers.



The render software appears to assume this as well, with the FR/FL speakers and the SBR/SBL speakers forming the boundaries of the "room" and the overheads being at the 1/4 and 3/4 room width points (and, incidentally, the 1/4 and 3/4 room length points for TF/TR speakers), which is probably where the "0.5 to 0.7 the width of the overall layout" advice derives from (as you can see in the middle graphic of this screenshot):





I wish I had seen this picture sooner. The dolby pdfs don't show the ceiling speakers that far in from the sides at all, and basically in line with the mains, which in my case are along the walls and in corners unfortunately.


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post #56413 of 58862 Old 11-06-2019, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
The render software appears to assume this as well, with the FR/FL speakers and the SBR/SBL speakers forming the boundaries of the "room" and the overheads being at the 1/4 and 3/4 room width points (and, incidentally, the 1/4 and 3/4 room length points for TF/TR speakers), which is probably where the "0.5 to 0.7 the width of the overall layout" advice derives from...
Question is, do those quarter-point rendering assumptions translate to the most effect locations for four height speakers? One of the reasons that Dolby might have recommended spreading the height speakers wider apart (in line with the front L/R speakers) is to make it easier to hear left-vs-right separation overhead (where our human hearing is not so hot). When it comes to Atmos playback at home, Dolby could be prioritizing stereo discrimination (left/right AND front/back) over strict adherence to the format's rendering assumptions. And I would agree with those priorities.
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post #56414 of 58862 Old 11-06-2019, 12:46 PM
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Question is, do those quarter-point rendering assumptions translate to the most effect locations for four height speakers? One of the reasons that Dolby might have recommended spreading the height speakers wider apart (in line with the front L/R speakers) is to make it easier to hear left-vs-right separation overhead (where our human hearing is not so hot). When it comes to Atmos playback at home, Dolby could be prioritizing stereo discrimination (left/right AND front/back) over strict adherence to the format's rendering assumptions. And I would agree with those priorities.
Yes, for sure, their "home Atmos" recommendations differ from the rendering assumptions / commercial cinema layouts in a number of ways, as you already know
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post #56415 of 58862 Old 11-06-2019, 01:00 PM
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Yes, for sure, their "home Atmos" recommendations differ from the rendering assumptions / commercial cinema layouts in a number of ways, as you already know
Yup, my point was that those differences were likely beneficial, so folks need not lament following the Dolby placement recommendations upon seeing the Atmos rendering assumptions.
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I wish I had seen this picture sooner. The dolby pdfs don't show the ceiling speakers that far in from the sides at all, and basically in line with the mains, which in my case are along the walls and in corners unfortunately.
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post #56416 of 58862 Old 11-06-2019, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus_CA View Post
I feel like I'm on a tightrope trying to squeeze a 7.3.4 system into a 300 sq foot room! When it comes to locating my 4 in-ceiling Atmos channels I'm having trouble deciding what aspect to compromise...the 30 to 55 degree vertical position, the distance between the rear pair and the rear wall, and equidistance between the front and rear Atmos pair and the MLP. I prepared and attached 3 diagrams to illustrate what I'm considering but please feel free to suggest your own out of the box recommendation if you have one.



Note: all 4 height speakers are aimable.



Option A preserves front to back equidistance between the front Atmos pair and the rear Atmos pair from the MLP (position 'X'). The front pair is 3' 5" in front of the MLP and the rear atmos pair is also 3' 5" from the MLP. This symmetry comes at the cost of only having 1' 7" between the rear pair and the rear wall. This configuration puts both the front pair and left pair vertical position relative to the MLP at 60 degrees.



Option B pulls the rear pair farther away from the rear wall and pushes the front pair far enough away from the MLP to be within Dolby guidelines. In this scenario the rear pair is positioned at 67 degrees relative to the MLP and 2' 5" from the rear wall. The front pair is 55 degrees relative to the MLP and 4' 2" away. I have about another 6" I could push the front channels away from the MLP but I'm already more than half the distance to the mains, which I'm not sure is a problem or not.



Option C is a meld of A and B. It foregoes equidistance from the MLP and pushes the front pair and rear pair as close to Dolby guidelines as possible. The rear pair is only 1' 7" from the rear wall but its vertical position relative to the MLP is 60 degrees. The front pair is at 55 degrees.



Questions...


  • Is there a clear winner here between options A, B and C?
  • Should I be concerned about the front Atmos pair being positioned more than half the distance of the MLP to the mains?
  • How about the spread between the right and left Atmos channels. Does 8 feet sound about right? I'm aware Dolby recommends spreading them the same distance apart as your mains but I think they're better as far off the side walls as possible to minimize reflections.



Thanks in advance for your replies.

Forgot to tell you that 8 feet is too wide for Atmos, based on my experience, since the sound will bounce off the side walls. I would do six feet and the. It still may be an issue. I have this issue now with my Atmos speakers at 7’️ apart side to side... and my room is 14’️ wide x 23.5’️ long. I am going to place 3â€Â-4â€Â thick acoustic panels to absorb higher frequencies and reduce reflections.

Edit : I notice that you have more room on one side but in my experience the Atmos speakers sound better if they are closer together than the Dolby recommendation to keep them in line with the L/R speakers. I would still go with 6 ft.

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My room is long and my atmos left and right spread is about 9-10 feet, same as my towers and it seems ok...does it seem too far judging by pics??
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post #56417 of 58862 Old 11-06-2019, 07:44 PM
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My room is long and my atmos left and right spread is about 9-10 feet, same as my towers and it seems ok...does it seem too far judging by pics??
It appears as though you followed the Dolby spec best you could so I don't know if I'd move those in if I were you, especially if it sounds good as is. I'd throw some acoustic panels on the right wall to balance out the space you have on the left and call it a day. Your setup looks very comfortable!
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So, I think I am honing in on a better idea of where to locate the 4 ceiling speakers for a 4.2.4 setup. However, I still have a few outstanding questions/issues, and I have someone coming over tomorrow to run speaker cabling for me. So, any help here would be most appreciated!!
  • Room is 22' from front to back wall.
  • Front speakers are 9' from each other measured from the inside edges and about 13.25' apart measured from the outside edge.
  • Ceiling height is 8.5'
  • First row of seating is about 11' from the front wall.
  • Second row of seating is about 6' from the back wall.

1. Placing the first row of ceiling speakers about 5' from the front wall seems about right. That puts the speaker about 5' in front of the first row of seating, and roughly hits that 45 degree angle recommendation.

2. Placement of the second row of ceiling speakers looks to be more complicated. There is a big soffit basically right above the second row of seating. If I place it behind the soffit, I assume the soffit will somewhat block the sound for the first row (see attached image)? Maybe it could be placed in the soffit, but because the second row of seating is on a 12" riser and the soffit comes down 12", that would put the speakers pretty close to those seated in the second row. What would you advise here?

3. Lastly, I've had two different recommendation for how wide apart from each other to place the ceiling speakers. It looks like the Dolby recommendations have then being placed in line with the front speakers... In my case, that would put them about 2' from the side walls. The other recommendation I had was to put them about 2' left and right of the center of the room. What would you suggest here?
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So what is the consensus on what Dolby is referring to when they say 'overall layout' when defining the recommended separation between left and right Atmos channels/pairs?

Is it the walls, your listening area, the distance between your mains, or perhaps the left and right surrounds? Pretty much every diagram and rendering they provide certainly looks like they want you to put them in line with your mains.
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post #56420 of 58862 Old 11-06-2019, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Magnus_CA View Post
So what is the consensus on what Dolby is referring to when they say 'overall layout' when defining the recommended separation between left and right Atmos channels/pairs?

Is it the walls, your listening area, the distance between your mains, or perhaps the left and right surrounds? Pretty much every diagram and rendering they provide certainly looks like they want you to put them in line with your mains.


This diagram is to simply get N idea more than exact calculations.
That’s what this is for.

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...guidelines.pdf

I think the more important thing is to maintain the “X” than worry about the width matching the mains.
I believe the .5-.7 is for the room.
Atmos is pretty forgiving.
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post #56421 of 58862 Old 11-06-2019, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Polyrythm1k View Post
This diagram is to simply get N idea more than exact calculations.
That’s what this is for.

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...guidelines.pdf

I think the more important thing is to maintain the “X” than worry about the width matching the mains.
I believe the .5-.7 is for the room.
Atmos is pretty forgiving.
Thanks. Do you have any advice on how to prioritize acheiving the 'X' and meeting the target elevation angles if you can't meet both?
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post #56422 of 58862 Old 11-06-2019, 10:17 PM
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Thanks. Do you have any advice on how to prioritize acheiving the 'X' and meeting the target elevation angles if you can't meet both?


Well...my priority might be different than yours, but I think sticking closer to the elevation is more important than the width. This would make the X more rectangular front to back. I would rather go that way, in MY room. However, SVS recommends their “height” speakers be high and on the sides. To me that’s like Wx1.00 so... that would make it a rectangle width wise.
I guess you’ll need some imagination to visualize how it will play out. Every room has compromises! Maybe some pics? We love pics!
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post #56423 of 58862 Old 11-06-2019, 11:38 PM
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Maybe some pics? We love pics!
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/showt...php?p=58763536
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This diagram is to simply get N idea more than exact calculations.
That’s what this is for.

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...guidelines.pdf

I think the more important thing is to maintain the “X” than worry about the width matching the mains.
I believe the .5-.7 is for the room.
Atmos is pretty forgiving.
Pardon my ignorance, but was does the "W" represent in this diagram?
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Pardon my ignorance, but was does the "W" represent in this diagram?


Width. I believe it’s room width. I think Dolby is assuming something of a rectangular room, at least semi dedicated to a theater. Versus a LR with open concept, or “L” shape etc.
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post #56426 of 58862 Old 11-07-2019, 05:26 AM
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Width. I believe it’s room width. I think Dolby is assuming something of a rectangular room, at least semi dedicated to a theater. Versus a LR with open concept, or “L” shape etc.
Got it. Thanks! That's pretty much what I figured, although in the various dolby setup diagrams looks to me like the ceiling speakers are placed wider apart than .5 to .7.
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post #56427 of 58862 Old 11-07-2019, 05:33 AM
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Got it. Thanks! That's pretty much what I figured, although in the various dolby setup diagrams looks to me like the ceiling speakers are placed wider apart than .5 to .7.


Yeah, I think the ones on their site are pretty generic and I kinda wish they’d put notes on them saying something like “just for reference, actual measurements will vary from room to room” or something like that. Or just include the actual install guide, which isn’t easy to find.
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Hi,

A lot of good discussion on Dolby Atmos speaker placement.

I have currently a 5.1 system and have already purchased a set of height speakers for a 5.1.2 configuration. I will install the new speakers to the side walls in an intersection between a wall and the ceiling. According to the Dolby setup guide (https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/sp...tup-guide.html, "Side view of a 5.1.2 setup") the height speakers should be installed a bit front of the MLP. That is, the angle should be 80 degrees. I have also been instructed to install them to the level of MPL. My surround speakers are a bit backwards from the MPL, the angle is about 110 degrees. I will not install a second set of height speakers or two additional back surrounds for a 7.1.2. There just is not room for them in the space.

So, which one should I do for the height sepakers, a bit front the MPL of or on the MPL?

Any info appreciated!
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post #56429 of 58862 Old 11-07-2019, 05:52 AM
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Yeah, I think the ones on their site are pretty generic and I kinda wish they’d put notes on them saying something like “just for reference, actual measurements will vary from room to room” or something like that. Or just include the actual install guide, which isn’t easy to find.
@Polyrythm1k , can I ask you one more question while I have your attention... I have someone coming in about an hour to help me run wire for two pairs of ceiling speakers. I think I'm feeling okay on location of the front pair. But, there is a 2' wide soffit where the second pair should go. If I locate the speakers behind the soffit, will the sound totally be blocked by that soffit (see photo).
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@Polyrythm1k , can I ask you one more question while I have your attention... I have someone coming in about an hour to help me run wire for two pairs of ceiling speakers. I think I'm feeling okay on location of the front pair. But, there is a 2' wide soffit where the second pair should go. If I locate the speakers behind the soffit, will the sound totally be blocked by that soffit (see photo).


I wouldn’t say totally, it it will be altered for sure. I would suggest building a box to mount them flush with the plane of the soffit but I think it looks like the back row is too close to the ceiling. If the back row doesn’t get much use then I might still do that, or use bookshelf speakers that hang just enough so the baffle is flush. Kinda hard to say for me without being actually in the room. Sorry.
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