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post #56431 of 58863 Old 11-07-2019, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Polyrythm1k View Post
I wouldn’t say totally, it it will be altered for sure. I would suggest building a box to mount them flush with the plane of the soffit but I think it looks like the back row is too close to the ceiling. If the back row doesn’t get much use then I might still do that, or use bookshelf speakers that hang just enough so the baffle is flush. Kinda hard to say for me without being actually in the room. Sorry.
Thanks @Polyrythm1k . I think I might not be in such bad shape after all? Correct me if I'm wrong here... if I can see the speakers, then for the most part that means that I should be able to hear them okay, correct? If my assumption is correct, then by mounting the second pair of in-ceiling speakers about 12 to 18" behind the soffit, I can see the speakers from my sitting position in the front row. So, not so bad... right?

And, if so, here's where I think I landed...

My listening area is roughly 13.75' wide x 22' long. My primary row of seating is roughly 12.75' from the front wall. My very large Klipsch LaScala speakers are at the very edge of the listening area (9' from each other measured from the inside edges and about 13.25' apart measured from the outside edges). Ceiling height is 8.5'. So...
  • Mount the first pair of ceiling speakers about 2.75' from the side wall and 6.3' from the front wall.
  • Mount the second pair of ceiling speakers about 2.75' from the side wall and 19' from the front wall.
  • Place the two surround speakers in the back corner.

Sound about right?

Thank you!!!
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post #56432 of 58863 Old 11-07-2019, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elee532 View Post
Thanks @Polyrythm1k . I think I might not be in such bad shape after all? Correct me if I'm wrong here... if I can see the speakers, then for the most part that means that I should be able to hear them okay, correct? If my assumption is correct, then by mounting the second pair of in-ceiling speakers about 12 to 18" behind the soffit, I can see the speakers from my sitting position in the front row. So, not so bad... right?



And, if so, here's where I think I landed...



My listening area is roughly 13.75' wide x 22' long. My primary row of seating is roughly 12.75' from the front wall. My very large Klipsch LaScala speakers are at the very edge of the listening area (9' from each other measured from the inside edges and about 13.25' apart measured from the outside edges). Ceiling height is 8.5'. So...


  • Mount the first pair of ceiling speakers about 2.75' from the side wall and 6.3' from the front wall.
  • Mount the second pair of ceiling speakers about 2.75' from the side wall and 19' from the front wall.
  • Place the two surround speakers in the back corner.



Sound about right?



Thank you!!!


Without the facilities to doodle for my own reference I’d say your logic is sound, and measurements good. I’m not a real firm believer in amiable tweeters but in this case anything you can do to aim them towards the front row should be helpful as well.
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post #56433 of 58863 Old 11-07-2019, 08:54 AM
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Thanks @Polyrythm1k !! My plan is Klipsch CDT-5800-C-II ceiling speakers, which are aimable if needed.

In the event that anyone cares, and can make sense of my rudimentary sketch, I attached my own "doodle" of what I'm planning. :-)

One last question... are there any concerns with having the surround speakers all the way in the back corner/against the back wall?
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post #56434 of 58863 Old 11-07-2019, 09:05 AM
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The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version)

Quote:
Originally Posted by elee532 View Post
Thanks @Polyrythm1k !! My plan is Klipsch CDT-5800-C-II ceiling speakers, which are aimable if needed.



In the event that anyone cares, and can make sense of my rudimentary sketch, I attached my own "doodle" of what I'm planning. :-)



One last question... are there any concerns with having the surround speakers all the way in the back corner/against the back wall?


I can’t see the photo but you definitely don’t want the surrounds in the back corner unless your room permits no other placement. I have found that surrounds placed to the side of my head (90 degrees) or maybe six inches behind that plane provides the best envelopment.

I don’t know if you will have rears but 1) rears are important if you have room and 2) you want separation between rears and surrounds.

You also don’t want your seating position on the back wall if it can be helped. Reason is regarding reflections from back wall and the fact that the rears will not sound right if there is no gap between rears and ears.

If you need to save space in-wall rears or something like the on-wall KEF T301 might work for you depending on how large your room is.


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7.4.6 system: Processors:Marantz 8805 || Xilica XP4080 Amps: Parasound A31 and ATI AT528NC & AT526NC n-core ||Speakers: Procella P8 LCR, Procella P5/P5 in-wall
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post #56435 of 58863 Old 11-07-2019, 10:18 AM
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Agree with farsider in the corner surround placement. I seem to remember you weren’t gonna do rear surrounds. If I read right, one side of the room is totally open so I can see where that might be a problem for surrounds, but that’s up to you. I would personally go on stands if you can train kids Lol!
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post #56436 of 58863 Old 11-07-2019, 06:31 PM
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The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version)

Guys if you want to hear what can be done with Atmos please watch “See”, the new Apple TV plus series. All I can say is wow! Some of the coolest, highly produced and clear Atmos effects I have ever heard! .... this was just in the opening credits....Really awesome... I just paused the show to post this so hopefully the sound envelopment on the rest of the show is as good.


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post #56437 of 58863 Old 11-07-2019, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
I can’t see the photo but you definitely don’t want the surrounds in the back corner unless your room permits no other placement. I have found that surrounds placed to the side of my head (90 degrees) or maybe six inches behind that plane provides the best envelopment.

I don’t know if you will have rears but 1) rears are important if you have room and 2) you want separation between rears and surrounds.

You also don’t want your seating position on the back wall if it can be helped. Reason is regarding reflections from back wall and the fact that the rears will not sound right if there is no gap between rears and ears.
Thanks for responding @farsider3000 !



I currently only have surrounds, no rears.



I am up against a few challenges (I tried attaching a few photos):


  1. I don't completely trust my kids yet with speakers on stands. :-)
  2. There is a large window on one side of the room that limits where I could wall mount.
  3. The second row of seating is only about 5' from the back of the room. So, even if I could address #1 and #2, this makes it impossible to (1) get the surrounds behind the second row of seating and (2) get the surrounds behind the second pair of ceiling speakers.
Any thoughts on this?


One question... I have been assuming it is necessary that the surround speakers be located behind the ceiling speakers. Is my understanding correct here?


Thanks!
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post #56438 of 58863 Old 11-07-2019, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elee532 View Post
Thanks for responding @farsider3000 !



I currently only have surrounds, no rears.



I am up against a few challenges (I tried attaching a few photos):


  1. I don't completely trust my kids yet with speakers on stands. :-)
  2. There is a large window on one side of the room that limits where I could wall mount.
  3. The second row of seating is only about 5' from the back of the room. So, even if I could address #1 and #2, this makes it impossible to (1) get the surrounds behind the second row of seating and (2) get the surrounds behind the second pair of ceiling speakers.
Any thoughts on this?


One question... I have been assuming it is necessary that the surround speakers be located behind the ceiling speakers. Is my understanding correct here?


Thanks!
With two rows it is not essential, or possible (unless you go with two sets of surrounds) to get the surrounds to be in line or behind the second row. Having surrounds beside the first row and having rears will create the desired surround bubble.

For your last question just remember that you are trying to create a hemisphere of surround sound "points". If you go with two rows of ceiling speakers the ceiling speakers sound best (in my opinion) located just about 6"-12" in front of the point where the ears are when seated and reclined (if you will use your recliners). There is flexibility as I personally don't agree with some of the angles Dolby recommends for Ceiling speakers since it places them too close to the front / rear speakers.

Just try to imagine creating the best sound hemisphere around the main seating position with the second row having less priority. Actually my second row sounds incredible when it comes to surround effects and my surrounds are lined up with first row ears. I have wired for a second row but the acoustic engineer that designed my room, Nyal Mellor, recommended that I not use a second row of surrounds and I don't think I am missing much without them. I think there was concern that we would lose the effect somewhat since the second row of surrounds would be fairly close to the back wall as my second row is only about 3' from the rear wall.

7.4.6 system: Processors:Marantz 8805 || Xilica XP4080 Amps: Parasound A31 and ATI AT528NC & AT526NC n-core ||Speakers: Procella P8 LCR, Procella P5/P5 in-wall
Subs: JTR Captivator subs: One S2, Two RS2, One S1
Screen: 2.40:1 Seymour XD Acoustically Transparent, 128" diagonal / 118" wide || Projector: JVC X570/RS420
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post #56439 of 58863 Old 11-07-2019, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elee532 View Post
Thanks for responding @farsider3000 !



I currently only have surrounds, no rears.



I am up against a few challenges (I tried attaching a few photos):


  1. I don't completely trust my kids yet with speakers on stands. :-)
  2. There is a large window on one side of the room that limits where I could wall mount.
  3. The second row of seating is only about 5' from the back of the room. So, even if I could address #1 and #2, this makes it impossible to (1) get the surrounds behind the second row of seating and (2) get the surrounds behind the second pair of ceiling speakers.
Any thoughts on this?


One question... I have been assuming it is necessary that the surround speakers be located behind the ceiling speakers. Is my understanding correct here?


Thanks!
Is there any way to reconfigure your seating and screen etc so that the play area is to the rear? Could you then get surrounds in the proper place (so the side of the first row)? Surrounds are probably the most important speakers in a surround sound set up. With them in the rear as you have them placed now you are losing out on a huge amount of the effect. Even though the surrounds would be far away from the seating due to the 22' room width they would still sound excellent since you can adjust the SPL manually for the surrounds or have Audyssey (or whatever your room correction brand is within your receiver/processor) automatically do it.

EDIT: Never mind... lol.. I just saw the riser... but in my opinion it is worth taking the riser down and rebuilding it in another location so you can get the surround speakers in the proper location. Adding ceiling speakers to your set up will add some good effects in certain movie scenes and tv shows but it is critical to move the surrounds to the locations mentioned previously.

7.4.6 system: Processors:Marantz 8805 || Xilica XP4080 Amps: Parasound A31 and ATI AT528NC & AT526NC n-core ||Speakers: Procella P8 LCR, Procella P5/P5 in-wall
Subs: JTR Captivator subs: One S2, Two RS2, One S1
Screen: 2.40:1 Seymour XD Acoustically Transparent, 128" diagonal / 118" wide || Projector: JVC X570/RS420
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post #56440 of 58863 Old 11-07-2019, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
With two rows it is not essential, or possible (unless you go with two sets of surrounds) to get the surrounds to be in line or behind the second row. Having surrounds beside the first row and having rears will create the desired surround bubble.

For your last question just remember that you are trying to create a hemisphere of surround sound "points". If you go with two rows of ceiling speakers the ceiling speakers sound best (in my opinion) located just about 6"-12" in front of the point where the ears are when seated and reclined (if you will use your recliners). There is flexibility as I personally don't agree with some of the angles Dolby recommends for Ceiling speakers since it places them too close to the front / rear speakers.

Just try to imagine creating the best sound hemisphere around the main seating position with the second row having less priority. Actually my second row sounds incredible when it comes to surround effects and my surrounds are lined up with first row ears. I have wired for a second row but the acoustic engineer that designed my room, Nyal Mellor, recommended that I not use a second row of surrounds and I don't think I am missing much without them. I think there was concern that we would lose the effect somewhat since the second row of surrounds would be fairly close to the back wall as my second row is only about 3' from the rear wall.
Interesting. So now I'm concerned that i wired to the wrong place for the ceiling speakers. I put the first pair about 6' in front of the first row and the second pair about 6' behind the first row.

To your other point, maybe i need add two more rear speakers... 2 main front speakers, 2 surrounds (just behind the first row of seats, but in front of second seating row), 4 ceiling, and 2 back surrounds?

Until I can add some back surrounds, I'll relocate the surrounds to be just behind row 1, and the folks in row 2 will have to live without. The only thing that sucks about that is when its family movie night, my 6 and 10 year-olds get row 1. 😁

Last edited by elee532; 11-07-2019 at 09:08 PM.
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post #56441 of 58863 Old 11-07-2019, 09:05 PM
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Interesting. So now I'm concerned that i wired to the wrong place for the ceiling speakers. I put the first pair about 6' in front of the first row and the second pair about 6' behind the first row.

To your other point, maybe i need add two more rear speakers... 2 main front speakers, 2 surrounds (just behind the first row of seats, but in front of second seating row), 4 ceiling, and 2 back surrounds?
If you can angle the speakers I would say that you are okay. If they are in ceiling speakers that cannot be angled I would recommend moving them to a location more directly overhead.

Yes the best set up is having surrounds, rears and ceiling speakers to create the sound hemisphere (LCR of course also ). It does not have to be perfect as there are always some compromises (sometimes small ones and some rather large).

Your "bed" speakers are the Front Left, Center, Front Right, Left surround, right surround , left rear and right rear. Then you can add one or two rows of Atmos. That is per the Dolby specification.

In my opinion Dolby's recommendation to keep the ceiling speakers even with the front L/R speakers can make them too far apart and too close to the side walls, especially on a low ceiling (8ft). With a 10-12 ft ceiling it is not as much a problem. If you have an 8 or 9 ft ceiling I would reduce the side to side distance between each ceiling speaker.

7.4.6 system: Processors:Marantz 8805 || Xilica XP4080 Amps: Parasound A31 and ATI AT528NC & AT526NC n-core ||Speakers: Procella P8 LCR, Procella P5/P5 in-wall
Subs: JTR Captivator subs: One S2, Two RS2, One S1
Screen: 2.40:1 Seymour XD Acoustically Transparent, 128" diagonal / 118" wide || Projector: JVC X570/RS420

Last edited by farsider3000; 11-07-2019 at 09:11 PM.
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post #56442 of 58863 Old 11-07-2019, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
If you can angle the speakers I would say that you are okay. If they are in ceiling speakers that cannot be angled I would recommend moving them to a location more directly overhead.

Yes the best set up is having surrounds, rears and ceiling speakers to create the sound hemisphere (LCR of course also ). It does not have to be perfect as there are always some compromises (sometimes small ones and some rather large).
I've got some Klipsch CDT-5800's on the way, which allow both woofer and tweeter to be aimed.

Adding surround backs shouldn't be too difficult. Wiring should be easier than it has been for the ceilings. The plan is to upgrade my AVR from the Denon X3400h to the 3600h which supports 11.2 as long as it has 2 extra channels of amplification (which I do). The main challenge is budget... I was planning to replace my current B&W surrounds with Klipsch to match the rest of my setup. I may have to keep them for though and repurpose those funds to adding the surround backs. 😁

I'll have to start a whole new thread someday to discuss my "C" questions. :-)

Last edited by elee532; 11-07-2019 at 09:32 PM.
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post #56443 of 58863 Old 11-08-2019, 12:05 PM
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Hi,

A lot of good discussion on Dolby Atmos speaker placement.

I have currently a 5.1 system and have already purchased a set of height speakers for a 5.1.2 configuration. I will install the new speakers to the side walls in an intersection between a wall and the ceiling. According to the Dolby setup guide (https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/sp...tup-guide.html, "Side view of a 5.1.2 setup") the height speakers should be installed a bit front of the MLP. That is, the angle should be 80 degrees. I have also been instructed to install them to the level of MPL. My surround speakers are a bit backwards from the MPL, the angle is about 110 degrees. I will not install a second set of height speakers or two additional back surrounds for a 7.1.2. There just is not room for them in the space.

So, which one should I do for the height sepakers, a bit front the MPL of or on the MPL?

Any info appreciated!
Anything on this? Thank you!
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post #56444 of 58863 Old 11-08-2019, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by RuatoTre View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by RuatoTre View Post
Hi,

A lot of good discussion on Dolby Atmos speaker placement.

I have currently a 5.1 system and have already purchased a set of height speakers for a 5.1.2 configuration. I will install the new speakers to the side walls in an intersection between a wall and the ceiling. According to the Dolby setup guide (https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/sp...tup-guide.html, "Side view of a 5.1.2 setup") the height speakers should be installed a bit front of the MLP. That is, the angle should be 80 degrees. I have also been instructed to install them to the level of MPL. My surround speakers are a bit backwards from the MPL, the angle is about 110 degrees. I will not install a second set of height speakers or two additional back surrounds for a 7.1.2. There just is not room for them in the space.

So, which one should I do for the height sepakers, a bit front the MPL of or on the MPL?

Any info appreciated!
Anything on this? Thank you!
I would definetly wire for 5.1.4
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post #56445 of 58863 Old 11-10-2019, 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
I would definetly wire for 5.1.4
Good point, thanks! I will first do 5.1.2 with one set of height speaker and in the future can expand to 5.1.4. So, the first set of height speakers should be installed a bit in front of the MLP as instructed in https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/sp...tup-guide.html (Side view of 5.1.4 setup)? Should I also tilt the speakers towards the MLP?

Kind regards,
Kari
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post #56446 of 58863 Old 11-10-2019, 02:59 AM
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hmmmm you come here asking for suggestions :


Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus_CA View Post
I feel like I'm on a tightrope trying to squeeze a 7.3.4 system into a 300 sq foot room! When it comes to locating my 4 in-ceiling Atmos channels I'm having trouble deciding what aspect to compromise...the 30 to 55 degree vertical position, the distance between the rear pair and the rear wall, and equidistance between the front and rear Atmos pair and the MLP. I prepared and attached 3 diagrams to illustrate what I'm considering but please feel free to suggest your own out of the box recommendation if you have one.


Thanks in advance for your replies.

So I offer you some :


Quote:
Originally Posted by niterida View Post
My suggestions :


Ditch the in-ceilings and use bookshelfs instead (and ideally matched to you base level speakers) - it seems to be the general consensus now, that in-ceilings are flawed, unless you can get them truly aimed at MLP.


Mount the rear heights right at the ceiling/wall boundary.


Move the front heights to be exactly 45deg


Build a 12" riser for the seats to reduce angle of rear heights closer to 45deg


Turn the riser into a BOSS : https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...y-theater.html

and you contradict yourself with your reply :


Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus_CA View Post
Speakers are purchased and I'm not interested in building a riser to accommodate what amounts to an effects speaker. Thanks anyway.

Seems pretty childish to me to ask for advice on how best to setup your expensive Atmos speakers, which I assume are attached to an expensive receiver and then state you don't want to do anything to accommodate them because they are only "effects" speakers.
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post #56447 of 58863 Old 11-10-2019, 09:12 AM
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So, I've decided to definitely pull the trigger and add two more surround speakers so now I'll have a 6.4.2 system. Are there any guidelines for the distance between the ceiling speakers and surround back speakers? I don't have a lot of space to work with in the back of my room.

I'll be placing the pair of surround back speakers on the back wall. I've then got about 5' of space to work with for placement of the second pair of ceiling speakers. The further from the back wall that I go with this row of ceiling speakers, the closer they get to being directly above, or even a little bit in front of the second row of seating. So, is it preferable to (1) have a little more space between the surround back speakers and second row of ceiling speakers or (b) get the second pair of ceiling speakers further behind the second row of seating and thus shrining the distance between the ceiling speakers and the back surround speakers?

Thoughts on this?

Thanks!
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post #56448 of 58863 Old 11-10-2019, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niterida View Post
hmmmm you come here asking for suggestions :





So I offer you some :





and you contradict yourself with your reply :





Seems pretty childish to me to ask for advice on how best to setup your expensive Atmos speakers, which I assume are attached to an expensive receiver and then state you don't want to do anything to accommodate them because they are only "effects" speakers.
There was nothing contradictory in my responses. I was never soliciting for advice beyond where to cut holes in my ceiling. Good day to you. I've fed you enough.
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post #56449 of 58863 Old 11-10-2019, 12:59 PM
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Atmos and 5.1

I need to ask a silly question, because somehow doing a web search did not manage to answer it. Or, more specifically, it provided wildly different answers!

Here it is: All else equal and given a 5.1 speaker setup, would an Atmos-capable AVR with Atmos material improve sound quality relative to a non-Atmos AVR playing the same soundtrack?

I'm asking because when I read about Atmos, I see two types of things being discussed: (1) object-based audio and (2) height channels. I understand both, but don't see why they would be directly connected. Let's assume for a moment that I cannot move away from my current 5.1 setup in the short run and so don't add height speakers, wouldn't an Atmos soundtrack through an Atmos-ready receiver improve the experience because of #1 , since the system now distributes the sound "between speakers" in a way that enhances the traditional channel-based approach?

I'm really sorry if this is a moronic question.
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post #56450 of 58863 Old 11-10-2019, 01:37 PM
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All else equal and given a 5.1 speaker setup, would an Atmos-capable AVR with Atmos material improve sound quality relative to a non-Atmos AVR playing the same soundtrack?
It's a good question IMO, and the short answer is: No. There is in principle no difference in the way sounds are perceptually positioned in-between speakers, whether it's channel based or object based. An Atmos track played on an Atmos capable AVR configured to 5.1, will sound exactly the same as a legacy 5.1 down-mix of that same Atmos track.
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post #56451 of 58863 Old 11-10-2019, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Turpentine22 View Post
I need to ask a silly question, because somehow doing a web search did not manage to answer it. Or, more specifically, it provided wildly different answers!

Here it is: All else equal and given a 5.1 speaker setup, would an Atmos-capable AVR with Atmos material improve sound quality relative to a non-Atmos AVR playing the same soundtrack?

I'm asking because when I read about Atmos, I see two types of things being discussed: (1) object-based audio and (2) height channels. I understand both, but don't see why they would be directly connected. Let's assume for a moment that I cannot move away from my current 5.1 setup in the short run and so don't add height speakers, wouldn't an Atmos soundtrack through an Atmos-ready receiver improve the experience because of #1 , since the system now distributes the sound "between speakers" in a way that enhances the traditional channel-based approach?

I'm really sorry if this is a moronic question.
I think most manufactures ATMOS capable AVR's won't even decode/display ATMOS unless the are configured with at least 2 height speakers.
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post #56452 of 58863 Old 11-10-2019, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Turpentine22 View Post
I need to ask a silly question, because somehow doing a web search did not manage to answer it. Or, more specifically, it provided wildly different answers!



Here it is: All else equal and given a 5.1 speaker setup, would an Atmos-capable AVR with Atmos material improve sound quality relative to a non-Atmos AVR playing the same soundtrack?



I'm asking because when I read about Atmos, I see two types of things being discussed: (1) object-based audio and (2) height channels. I understand both, but don't see why they would be directly connected. Let's assume for a moment that I cannot move away from my current 5.1 setup in the short run and so don't add height speakers, wouldn't an Atmos soundtrack through an Atmos-ready receiver improve the experience because of #1 , since the system now distributes the sound "between speakers" in a way that enhances the traditional channel-based approach?



I'm really sorry if this is a moronic question.


Short answer is no. The non Atmos AVR will treat the Atmos material in the same manner as an Atmos AVR, IF there aren’t any height speakers available. The atmos metadata will still be folded into the bed speakers. The difference would be that the Atmos AVR would have the ability to handle the metadata and place objects If there are speakers available for it to use.
I can say that Ime, before I had an Atmos AVR and speakers, many Atmos tracks sounded better on my system. I always attributed that to how they were mixed. After upgrading, I still noticed how great the tracks were, but now it was better with objects and top speakers. I’m dozing off so maybe someone with better words can add.
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post #56453 of 58863 Old 11-10-2019, 08:57 PM
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Short answer is no. The non Atmos AVR will treat the Atmos material in the same manner as an Atmos AVR, IF there aren’t any height speakers available. The atmos metadata will still be folded into the bed speakers. The difference would be that the Atmos AVR would have the ability to handle the metadata and place objects If there are speakers available for it to use.
I can say that Ime, before I had an Atmos AVR and speakers, many Atmos tracks sounded better on my system. I always attributed that to how they were mixed. After upgrading, I still noticed how great the tracks were, but now it was better with objects and top speakers. I’m dozing off so maybe someone with better words can add.
I could be off base here but I read his post as that if he DID have an Atmos enabled AVR but simply did not have any height speakers, would benefit from Atmos audio at all. In my brief experience, the answer is yes.

About a year ago my old Onkyo AVR went out and I bought a new Denon AVR that was Atmos enabled. Even though I didn't initially have any height speakers, I swear I could hear an improvement even in a base 5.1 sound track that just happened to be Atmos. There seem to be a bit more spacial movement and fullness, even just from 5.1. I quickly bought a 4K player and started buying 4K movies just to have Atmos, before I even had a 4K TV. I was in love with Atmos even before I got the "Full benefit" of it.

I don't see any downside to buying an Atmos Ready AVR and simply adding speakers to it as you can.
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post #56454 of 58863 Old 11-10-2019, 09:06 PM
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I could be off base here but I read his post as that if he DID have an Atmos enabled AVR but simply did not have any height speakers, would benefit from Atmos audio at all. In my brief experience, the answer is yes.



About a year ago my old Onkyo AVR went out and I bought a new Denon AVR that was Atmos enabled. Even though I didn't initially have any height speakers, I swear I could hear an improvement even in a base 5.1 sound track that just happened to be Atmos. There seem to be a bit more spacial movement and fullness, even just from 5.1. I quickly bought a 4K player and started buying 4K movies just to have Atmos, before I even had a 4K TV. I was in love with Atmos even before I got the "Full benefit" of it.



I don't see any downside to buying an Atmos Ready AVR and simply adding speakers to it as you can.


Well I can’t discount your experience. But in fairness it’s possible that audyssey, or something in the setup had more to do with it than anything. The core track is the core track, so it should be played back the same on any AVR(Audyssey, mcacc, ypao etc. notwithstanding)
I do agree with you that Atmos tracks DO have something about them, even on a 5.1 system. But I don’t think it’s the AVR. It’s the way the tracks are mastered.
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post #56455 of 58863 Old 11-10-2019, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by zeonstar View Post
I could be off base here but I read his post as that if he DID have an Atmos enabled AVR but simply did not have any height speakers, would benefit from Atmos audio at all. In my brief experience, the answer is yes.



About a year ago my old Onkyo AVR went out and I bought a new Denon AVR that was Atmos enabled. Even though I didn't initially have any height speakers, I swear I could hear an improvement even in a base 5.1 sound track that just happened to be Atmos. There seem to be a bit more spacial movement and fullness, even just from 5.1. I quickly bought a 4K player and started buying 4K movies just to have Atmos, before I even had a 4K TV. I was in love with Atmos even before I got the "Full benefit" of it.



I don't see any downside to buying an Atmos Ready AVR and simply adding speakers to it as you can.


Well I can’️t discount your experience. But in fairness it’️s possible that audyssey, or something in the setup had more to do with it than anything. The core track is the core track, so it should be played back the same on any AVR(Audyssey, mcacc, ypao etc. notwithstanding)
I do agree with you that Atmos tracks DO have something about them, even on a 5.1 system. But I don’️t think it’️s the AVR. It’️s the way the tracks are mastered.
With an Atmos enabled AVR (and of course Atmos content) won’t it still decode as and play as Atmos even in a 5.1 setup? That’s all I’m really getting at.
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post #56456 of 58863 Old 11-10-2019, 09:41 PM
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With an Atmos enabled AVR (and of course Atmos content) won’t it still decode as and play as Atmos even in a 5.1 setup? That’s all I’m really getting at.


Nope. If the speakers aren’t available, there’s no difference.
What IS different is when there are speakers available, then the AVR can unpack the metadata, and place the objects accordingly. If there are no speakers, all the metadata stays folded into the bed channels. The AVR can’t change that.
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post #56457 of 58863 Old 11-11-2019, 05:44 AM
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...my old Onkyo AVR went out and I bought a new Denon AVR that was Atmos enabled. Even though I didn't initially have any height speakers, I swear I could hear an improvement...
I replaced an Onkyo with a Marantz receiver. It sounded much different, just as in your experience. I'm sure it's because of better circuitry or settings, and not due to ATMOS.

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post #56458 of 58863 Old 11-11-2019, 06:58 AM
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I replaced an Onkyo with a Marantz receiver. It sounded much different, just as in your experience. I'm sure it's because of better circuitry or settings, and not due to ATMOS.


A big difference would be audyssey vs accueq. Even xt vs XT32 in my room was a big difference.
Agreed. It was not due to Atmos from the AVR’s standpoint. The source though...yes.
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post #56459 of 58863 Old 11-11-2019, 07:04 AM
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A big difference would be audyssey vs accueq. Even xt vs XT32 in my room was a big difference.
Agreed. It was not due to Atmos from the AVR’s standpoint. The source though...yes.
Not even the source, as I noticed the difference with normal content as well. Anyway, it for sure was not ATMOS.

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post #56460 of 58863 Old 11-11-2019, 08:16 AM
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With an Atmos enabled AVR (and of course Atmos content) won’t it still decode as and play as Atmos even in a 5.1 setup?
No. Think of home Atmos soundtracks as having a nested structure for backwards compatibility: inside the Atmos mix is the entire movie as a 7.1 mix, inside the 7.1 mix is the entire movie as a 5.1 mix, inside the 5.1 mix is the entire movie as a 2-channel mix. When playing an Atmos soundtrack on a 5.1-speaker set-up, the 5.1 version of the mix is decoded. No different than any other 5.1 track.
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