The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 1911 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #57301 of 58879 Old 01-22-2020, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by zeonstar View Post
Is DTS:X considered to be lesser? I never actually knew that.
It's the lesser format in that it is (currently) limited to a maximum of 11 speakers, and almost all DTS:X soundtracks are authored as 7.1.4 channels with no audio objects.
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post #57302 of 58879 Old 01-22-2020, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post
I use AuroMatic for all my audio modes, even for Atmos and DTS Master.
(DTSX can not be upmixed by AuroMatic )

Nor can Atmos.

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post #57303 of 58879 Old 01-22-2020, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
Nor can Atmos.
Yes it will, as TrueHD, and this works automatic.
As soon as I select Auro, the TrueHD track will be used.
With DTSX there is no (auto) step back to DTS Master, DTSX will not be upmixed, DTS Master will.
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post #57304 of 58879 Old 01-22-2020, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by niterida View Post
I had a 7012 and while it sounded OK I was never impressed with the Atmos effect and overall the sound was just OK. It didn't matter what I did with speaker placement or settings or how many times I ran Audyssey it never impressed me. Isold it and bought an older Yamaha RX-A3040 and it sounded fantastic - it didn't matter what I did with speaker placement or settings or YPAO it always sounded great. Now I know how many people love the higher end Marantz receivers and Audyssey so I am not sure if it is just my tastes or non-trained ear or if I had a "faulty" unit. So maybe you could try borrowing another receiver and see if that makes any difference ?


Having said all that the Auro-3d upmixer on the Marantz definitely made music come alive and I wish I still Auro for just that reason


And happy for you to pay my air-fare - but you do realise I live in remote country Western Australia - it costs about $300USD just to get to the nearest international airport !!
Niterida, thanks for your reply...but you got one part wrong. I'd said "If you'll install it and pay your plane fare (to greater Seattle area), I'll buy the materials?". Awaiting your revised offer.....
Still thinking about Auro 3D. Thanks again!

Jack
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post #57305 of 58879 Old 01-22-2020, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
If you have some of the demo discs, you probably have one with the Helicopter Demo, which only has sound in the heights and none in the ground.

My favorite trailer for this is Audiosphere. Lots of dominating overhead activity in that one.
That is the very disc I have. I kind of forgotten about the Helicopter demo. I will give that a listen tonight. I love the Audiosphere one too. One of my favorites. My children (2 and 4) actually love that one. They call it the bouncy ball. It makes them giggle like you wouldn't believe. It's pure joy listening to them listen to it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post
Below is a Demo disc my buddy Tom C. in San Antonio, TX. sent me not long ago.
He had his Audio system with Atmos Custom Calibrated and used this disc.
He got me one also so when my Atmos is installed they can use it if they wish.







Terry
Yep, that is the very one I have. I was fortunate to get it from Denon upon request.

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Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
Get Flatliners (2017) off iTunes or Vudu in Atmos. The voices talking about near death experiences for a minute and a half move all over the ceiling and pretty much only the ceiling. It's incredible sounding for that minute and a half. Instant demo material and right at 1 minute and 30 seconds into it so it's easy to find for a demo. The rest of the movie is OK, but that opening is a show stopper for overhead sound demoing, IMO. Unlike the helicopter demo that is mostly around the periphery (especially with height speakers pulling it all the way to the screen and rear walls), these move all over the entire ceiling including directly in the middle areas front, back and overhead).
I will make a note of it, thank you!
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post #57306 of 58879 Old 01-22-2020, 02:46 PM
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You guys can find some Atmos and DTS:X demo clips here: https://kodi.wiki/view/Samples
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post #57307 of 58879 Old 01-22-2020, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
As long as the Dolby Atmos track isn't a fixed printout, DTS: X is 7.1.4. All DTS: X Pro does is stretch that out with matrix upmixing.
DTS:X Pro / Neural X is NOT "matrixed". Logic steering is utterly different (almost discrete) whereas matrixing creates an array with only 3dB of separation between the combined channels (simple addition).

DTS:X/Neural X doesn't "stretch" anything just like Pro Logic doesn't "stretch" the center speaker image as the distance between the left and right speakers before adding the center remains constant. Putting a hard source in the middle doesn't change the relative imaging size at all. It's the outer framework distance that forms the imaging limits (panning object amount 0-100% to move it in any given direction). I see two different ways to skin a cat here for panning data whereas you seem to see inferior vs superior without even having heard the DTS:X Pro system. And yet DTS:X Pro can make a "fixed" 7.1.4 soundtrack use all available speakers while Atmos just has speakers missing and thus "holes" in the middle if the theater is large enough (24 feet is long enough hear to screw up the middle without top middle speakers).

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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
It's the lesser format in that it is (currently) limited to a maximum of 11 speakers, and almost all DTS:X soundtracks are authored as 7.1.4 channels with no audio objects.
None of which will make a whit of difference once DTS:X Pro is released. DTS:X will then be superior in the sense that ALL DTS:X soundtracks will use ALL available speakers (unlike Atmos that can be told to IGNORE any number of speakers in the system thus destroying larger systems ability to image correctly as the entire point of the extra speakers beyond 7.1.4 is to increase the available room size without compromising imaging. There are no "new" locations beyond 7.1.4 in the sense that it can fully phantom image any point in the overall rectangle in a small enough room from the MLP. As the room size increases and off-axis seating is used, more and more speakers are needed to maintain that ability, but no "new locations" are added. The rectangle is simply scaled and hard sources are placed to avoid the precedence effect). This notion that Atmos is some magical system because it uses "objects" is abject nonsense. Objects are useful to make it easier to place sounds in the room without complicated large numbers of panning knobs for individual channels, but that doesn't mean it cannot be done without objects (like the Auro system or DTS:X without objects). And yet objects are used in DTS:X to place the sounds. The objects are simply pre-rendered to a channel output. DTS:X Pro uses logic steering to put hard sources between existing 7.1.4 framework locations. The end result should be very nearly audibly the same as rendering to the same size system.

Ultimately, both formats are about SCALING to larger rooms once you get beyond 7.1.4. There is no other purpose to those extra speakers but to anchor sounds and defeat the limits of phantom imaging in larger rooms.
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post #57308 of 58879 Old 01-22-2020, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
None of which will make a whit of difference once DTS:X Pro is released.
You will note that I said "currently" in my last reply.

DTS:X Pro is vaporware at this point. Lots of big promises, no indication of when or if it will really ever be available.

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post #57309 of 58879 Old 01-22-2020, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
You will note that I said "currently" in my last reply.

DTS:X Pro is vaporware at this point. Lots of big promises, no indication of when or if it will really ever be available.
It exists. Some AVSers (e.g. Dan Hitchman) heard it at CEDIA or at other sites, there's at least one beta tester (Berland) with it on the Trinnov Altitude thread, and Trinnov announced that they've completed DTS Certification and it will be released for free to Altitude owners some time "very soon" (that was a week ago). That was reported in a press release carried in WSR.

It's more proper to say that it is "vaporware" for non-Altitude owners in the near future, but that may change in upcoming months and prove otherwise. Or it may not.

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post #57310 of 58879 Old 01-24-2020, 06:24 AM
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I have a "quick" question: Please indulge me going into details to explain

I have a 7.1.4 setup via a Marantz 6013 + external amp. For the front, I have the klipsch 140sa upfiring and placed on top of the front L and R speakers. Due to a few reasons, my rear atmos drivers (klipsch 500sa) are placed on the rear wall at the top corner of the ceiling and angled downward to my MLP. The rear driver has a switch for atmos or surround and I have it set to surround since I am not positioning it as an upfiring atmos driver.

Now my reciever's amp assign has many options: 1) 4 atmos and no height speaker placement, 2) 4 height no atmos option placement, 3) 2 height + 2 atmos option, and many other variation within all off these options (i.e., side atmos versus rear atmos, versus ceiling mounted height options and combo's of both and more, etc).

Bear with me on this paragraph.......I currently have it set to the 4 atmos option with front and rear selected, but the rear is not upfiring like the graphic shows you in the amp assign menu (does that matter?) and technically due to the rear drivers actual positioning, I could (or should?) select the "2 atmos (front) + 2 rear height" right? However, I do not believe I am going to get true .4 atmos processing with the "2 atmos + 2 height" amp configuration. Yet, with my current amp assign of 4 atmos, the only graphics are for 4 atmos set as upfiring placement (again only my fronts are upfiring). I oddly do not see in the amp assign menu a 4 atmos speaker graphic with ceiling mounted atmos locations (lol, like Dolby actually recommends most), yet those amp assign options do have a ceiling graphic if one were to select those speakers as height speakers (?). Just confuses me why Marantz would not show a 4 atmos option with graphics that reflect either ceiling mount, upfiring mount, rear height mount and or all those combination (unless it doesn't matter). They did that afterall for all the height options.

So, if you are still with me (bless you), does anyone know if the marantz's 4 atmos speaker option, which I have selected, is the right setting regardless of upfiring, versus rear height placement, verses ceiling placement? Or, if I chose the "2 atmos + 2 rear height" option due to my actual positioning, will i get a true .4 atmos processing? I think instead it would give me a heightened sound on other, non atmos encoded formats like DTS-X. Any help is appreciated.

Last edited by libertyguy20; 01-24-2020 at 06:28 AM.
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post #57311 of 58879 Old 01-24-2020, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by libertyguy20 View Post
Or, if I chose the "2 atmos + 2 rear height" option due to my actual positioning, will i get a true .4 atmos processing?
Atmos Enabled upfiring speakers have psychoacoustic processing built into the crossover network to trick our human hearing into perceiving sounds as coming from above. The filter used for processing the height effect looks like this:



When you label a pair of upfiring speakers as Dolby speakers, your Marantz receiver will insert that elevation squiggle into the Audyssey target curve. If it didn't do that, Audyssey would flatten out those peaks & dip (which is what Audyssey is designed to do) and ruin the height effect. So it is important to label upfiring speakers correctly during initial speaker set-up.

If you use the same label on regular speakers, especially ones placed above you, then the height effect is wasted (those sounds are ALREADY coming from above you) and you're unnecessarily introducing peaks/dip into the speaker response that will make it sound worse.
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post #57312 of 58879 Old 01-24-2020, 08:32 AM
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@libertyguy20 - If I'm reading that right, you seem confused as to the meanings assigned. "Atmos speakers" or more properly "Atmos Enabled Speakers" refer to ceiling bounce speakers. If you are mounting a selectable speaker high up on the rear walk pointed down it is functioning as a "height" speaker not an "Atmos speaker" which is why you don't see a graphic showing it up high.

"Top" speakers are typically on or in ceiling further out into the room.

You want Atmos enabled + rear height in the setup menu. You might also want to check the rated bass on those speakers and make sure the crossover isn't set too low for rear height as many speakers designed for Atmos Enabled use aren't designed to output much bass.
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post #57313 of 58879 Old 01-24-2020, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
@libertyguy20 - If I'm reading that right, you seem confused as to the meanings assigned. "Atmos speakers" or more properly "Atmos Enabled Speakers" refer to ceiling bounce speakers. If you are mounting a selectable speaker high up on the rear walk pointed down it is functioning as a "height" speaker not an "Atmos speaker" which is why you don't see a graphic showing it up high.

"Top" speakers are typically on or in ceiling further out into the room.

You want Atmos enabled + rear height in the setup menu. You might also want to check the rated bass on those speakers and make sure the crossover isn't set too low for rear height as many speakers designed for Atmos Enabled use aren't designed to output much bass.
Ok, so if I switch to the "2 atmos front + 2 rear height" setting in my amp, when the Atmos signal comes in, the amp will produce the Atmos sound out to my 4 speakers and rears specifically will not have the upfiring psychoacoustical curve adjustments due to being placed as a height speaker, whereas the fronts would. I was thinking if I did that, on atmos content, it would simply not play the rear atmos speakers at all since those are for a differently encoded content. I also could have sworn last night that when I was listening to both modes, I heard very very little when I selected rear height on those rears...may just have due to changes in the source content (ie different scene).


Edit.....the x/o that audyssey set for those rear heigfhts was 80h, which is in line with the speaker size (5 1/2) and referenced in the actual install manual by klipsch. It recommended 140h if using as an upfiring driver.


Last, so it is still correct to say I have 7.1.4 Atmos setup, but the detail is that I am using a rear height speaker placement...not a top (i.e., ceiling) nor atmos enabled upfiring driver for the rear channel).


Time to re-calibrate! I am switching the front 140sa's out for a listen to the KEF Q50's.....I like their speaker design much better but need to listen!
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Last edited by libertyguy20; 01-24-2020 at 10:01 AM.
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post #57314 of 58879 Old 01-24-2020, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyguy20 View Post
Ok, so if I switch to the "2 atmos front + 2 rear height" setting in my amp, when the Atmos signal comes in, the amp will produce the Atmos sound out to my 4 speakers and rears specifically will not have the upfiring psychoacoustical curve adjustments due to being placed as a height speaker, whereas the fronts would.
Correct.

Quote:
I was thinking if I did that, on atmos content, it would simply not play the rear atmos speakers at all since those are for a differently encoded content.
Nope. Same content. "Atmos speaker" in the sense you're thinking just refers to bounce off the ceiling speakers. Tops and heights do Atmos, X etc.

Quote:
I also could have sworn last night that when I was listening to both modes, I heard very very little when I selected rear height on those rears...may just have due to changes in the source content (ie different scene).
Rear overhead effects are probably less common than in the front, but both are combined to produce stuff in the middle overhead with just four speakers.

There are demos you can use to test them.

Quote:
Edit.....the x/o that audyssey set for those rear heigfhts was 80h, which is in line with the speaker size (5 1/2) and referenced in the actual install manual by klipsch. It recommended 140h if using as an upfiring driver.
That sounds fine.

Quote:
Last, so it is still correct to say I have 7.1.4 Atmos setup, but the detail is that I am using a rear height speaker placement...not a top (i.e., ceiling) nor atmos enabled upfiring driver for the rear channel).
Yeah, it's still called 7.1.4.
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post #57315 of 58879 Old 01-24-2020, 08:24 PM
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Is there a *BEST * speaker brand for Atmos height speakers? Are there audio quality differences/improvements on one brand over another?

I want the most immersive sound possible within "Atmos".

I'm debating between the Klipsch 500SA and the SVS Prime Elevations?
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post #57316 of 58879 Old 01-24-2020, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post
Yes it will, as TrueHD, and this works automatic.
As soon as I select Auro, the TrueHD track will be used.
With DTSX there is no (auto) step back to DTS Master, DTSX will not be upmixed, DTS Master will.
Interesting. But it was still worth clarifying (as you did) that Auro is not upmixing Atmos, it's upmixing TrueHD.

And if your BD player has 7.1 PCM output capability, you could upmix DTS:X soundtracks, too, cumbersome though it may be.
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post #57317 of 58879 Old 01-24-2020, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
I'm curious about one aspect of the Home Atmos format, namely the bed tracks containing height information folded into them and how that relates to recreating the Atmos mix. It seems like everything I've read thus far kind of glosses over the fact the height data appears to be hard coded into the bed tracks. You can't just remove them with a push of a button. You'd have to use a method like phase and level reversal opposite of the "fold down" process, but even then it seems like there might be a remnant/trace of it left.
In the case of Atmos content delivered with TrueHD, the reversal is indeed complete. The losslessly delivered objects are removed by the exact inverse of the process that mixed them into the bed.

However, all bets are off when the soundtrack is delivered with DD+. There, the objects are not delivered as discrete lossless elements, but as parametrically coded signals. It's a lossy process, so they cannot be completely removed. No one seems to have noticed, though.
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post #57318 of 58879 Old 01-25-2020, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mystickid View Post
Is there a *BEST * speaker brand for Atmos height speakers? Are there audio quality differences/improvements on one brand over another?

I want the most immersive sound possible within "Atmos".

I'm debating between the Klipsch 500SA and the SVS Prime Elevations?
mystickid,

In "Blue" above it reads like cost/price is not all that important you just want the best.

Here is 1-option given cost is No-Concern.

Left click on link below,

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...l#post59114246




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post #57319 of 58879 Old 01-25-2020, 09:42 AM
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For those who have pined away for what many may consider the proper use for overheads in an Atmos mix, Warner bros. in my opinion has nailed it in a special home Atmos mix for "Dr. Sleep" I was un aware of the special mix going in till I read @Ralph Potts preview for the movie today after last nights viewing via Hulu 4k Atmos ,Dolby Vision early peek and was glad as I had no expectation to what was just some of the best use of the platform to date. Just to add, the movie? A must watch if you have seen or your a fan of the "Shining "
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post #57320 of 58879 Old 01-25-2020, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post
For those who have pined away for what many may consider the proper use for overheads in an Atmos mix, Warner bros. in my opinion has nailed it in a special home Atmos mix for "Dr. Sleep" I was un aware of the special mix going in till I read @Ralph Potts preview for the movie today after last nights viewing via Hulu 4k Atmos ,Dolby Vision early peek and was glad as I had no expectation to what was just some of the best use of the platform to date. Just to add, the movie? A must watch if you have seen or your a fan of the "Shining "
audiofan1,

Just added it to my Netflix queue ............



Terry
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post #57321 of 58879 Old 01-25-2020, 10:57 AM
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Is there a *BEST * speaker brand for Atmos height speakers? Are there audio quality differences/improvements on one brand over another?

I want the most immersive sound possible within "Atmos".

I'm debating between the Klipsch 500SA and the SVS Prime Elevations?
I'm a fan of PSB speakers as they're always very strict on the frequency response (typically +/- 1.5 db on-axis compared to most at more like +/- 3db) which at least gives you a head start on room response. I used PSB CS500 on the ceiling here (easy to point them to the MLP). I believe @sdrucker uses PSB CS1000 (deeper bass response overhead if you want it) in his Trinnov based system (you can ask him about it for truly high end) along with higher end bed models (largely furniture finish for the increased costs at that level compared to some similar response models, IMO, but some other improvements as well).

Overall, I'm pretty happy with my system response at this point (Im currently only using Audyssey up to the Schrodinger limit (~250Hz)) and by using used PSB speakers in some cases to do a full 11.1.6 layout (still planning on a second sub to even out the bass or the second/third rows a bit more) saved me a bundle as well (that I used on furniture and movie prop decorations). I get a full 14' of separation between side and full rear sounds (24' across the full front to rear speakers) so it cannot be said that rear surround speakers don't add much as I've seen claimed all too often on here. 5.1.x cannot replicate the scale of having 8 bed surrounds (and six overheads with eight sets of drivers) in play across three rows of seats. The bird in the "Amaze" demo has a long flight around my room!

It wasn't easy to fit 18 speakers and six recliners in a 12'x24' room that was also challenged by a half bath in the back and an outboard fireplace on the middle right side along with a sliding rear door that made rear surrounds hard to fit as well, but careful planning and shopping made it work along with a lot of tinkering for the best mix of the added matrix and Dolby powered extraction speakers while maintaining an Atmo/X layout also fully compatible with true Auro 9.1 yet capable of an enhanced Auro 9.1.6 operation using the extra extracted and matrixed speakers at the push of a few buttons.

It is relatively easy to add four CS500/1000 overheads, though. Mounting the speaker is pretty simple, but hiding the wiring might not be depending on the room and ceiling.
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post #57322 of 58879 Old 01-25-2020, 12:55 PM
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audiofan1,

Just added it to my Netflix queue ............



Terry
Solid plan but do treat you and the wife to this one with the full 4k Dolby Atmos once you get those overheads installed
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post #57323 of 58879 Old 01-25-2020, 04:34 PM
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[QUOTE=libertyguy20;59147406]

Correct.


Nope. ^

So... I recalibrated with the rear atmos channels set to 'rear height' instead of 'rear atmos' (due to actual speaker placement) and listened to some atmos demos (i.e., leaf and amazon scenes). I could hear the front channel atmos when the leaf went from right to left, but when it went back behind me, the "rear height" setting didnt include the leaf as it circled back around to front right atmos driver...same for the bird in Amazon scene. I did hear rear height sound effects here and there, but I'm 100% positive it did not isolate the leaf/bird between the .4 channels and it sounded very back to front and front to back intermittently in a non-immersive way.

I then switched it back (4 atmos, 0 height amp assign setting), and I heard the leaf wiz around me as all 4 speakers played/averaged the content.

Since I then need to set the rears to the atmos setting in the amp assign AND I dont want to add unnecessary peaks peaks and dips into the f/r on those rears (since I am not upfiring the rear drivers), I may just then edit the target curves in my MultEQ app after calibration, so as to gently slope down the high end similar to the other channels in the Audyssey house curve. sound.......Actually, since my klipsch 500sa switch is set to 'surround mode' and not Atmos, it will not employ the atmos crossover points (needed when used for upfiring); but I need to check on what my marantz will do to the curve (i.e., not smooth it out).

But again, setting the rear side of my .4 to 'rear height' in my amp assign, which is my actual placement, TOOK AWAY the atmos information and replaced it with other non-atmos rear height. If you want the emersive atmos content I think you need to set to atmos...rear height wont do it and I only guess the same for the 'top' setting because again...those were subset options of height speakers...Dolby atmos only has 'front and surround' or 'front and rears'. I think something is off.

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post #57324 of 58879 Old 01-25-2020, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by libertyguy20 View Post

Correct.


Nope. ^

So... I recalibrated with the rear atmos channels set to 'rear height' instead of 'rear atmos' (due to actual speaker placement) and listened to some atmos demos (i.e., leaf and amazon scenes). I could hear the front channel atmos when the leaf went from right to left, but when it went back behind me, the "rear height" setting didnt include the leaf as it circled back around to front right atmos driver...same for the bird in Amazon scene.
You didn't hear them in the rear height channel because those sounds are not in the rear height channel on those demos (not here anyway); they're in the rear surround bed channel (the bird and leaf "circle" at bed level). Clearly, the Atmos enabled setting blends more of the rear bed and height together expecting your speaker to be on the ground. I mean if you want the sounds in the wrong place, by all means use the Atmos enabled setting. But those sounds are not overhead here. I was surprised myself that the bird flying around the room in the "Amaze" demo is at bed level, but it is. You can set the speakers both to tops to check too and it won't be in there as the bird is not flying around the ceiling, but at or just above your head. In other words, to gauge whether things are placed correctly, you need to know where the the sounds are supposed to be in the demos.

Examples of rear height effects in Atmos demos....

Dolby Horizon Demo - The spaceship traveling from rear height to rear front across the ceiling and then the two ships traveling from front to rear after the car part.

Dolby Helicopter Demo - The helicopter travels around the ceiling in a circular pattern

Dolby Rainstorm Demo - The first clap of thunder is in the back of the room on the ceiling followed by directly overhead and then somewhat in front with the heavy rain starting in the front and moving towards the back afterwards

Dolby Unfold Demo - Right before it zooms out to the word Dolby it starts laying down tiles overhead from front to back on the ceiling (followed by the logos shooting from behind to the front)

You can also download the DTS:X demos for "Sound Callout" and "Object Emulator" and they will show you precisely on the screen where the sounds are supposed to be coming from in a 7.1.4 setup.
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post #57325 of 58879 Old 01-25-2020, 05:48 PM
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[QUOTE=MagnumX;59153814][quote=libertyguy20;59153706]

Correct.


Nope. ^

So... I recalibrated with the rear atmos channels set to 'rear height' instead of 'rear atmos' (due to actual speaker placement) and listened to some atmos

You didn't hear them in the rear height channel because those sounds are not in the rear height channel on those demos (not here anyway); they're in the rear surround bed channel (the bird and leaf "circle" at bed level). Clearly, the Atmos enabled setting blends more of the rear bed and height together expecting your speaker to be on the ground. I mean if you want the sounds in the wrong place, by all means use the Atmos enabled setting. But those sounds are not overhead here. I was surprised myself that the bird flying around the room in the "Amaze" demo is at bed level, but it is. You can set the speakers both to tops to check too and it won't be in there as the bird is not flying around the ceiling, but at or just above your head. In other words, to gauge whether things are placed correctly, you need to know where the the sounds are supposed to be in the demos.

Something is off then, because the bird did not play in my 4 surround bed channels at all...it was like it didn't exist and it audibly cut out. I'm using demos from XBox dolby app...have a blu Ray coming in mail. Maybe that demo mixes it differently like you said, but the bird noticeably dissapeared with rear height activated across the entire back stage, same for the speed pod. My 7.1 has been working well, so I will need to assess more. Wish my AVR had a more simple channel mute feature to help you isolate individual drivers. Cheers
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post #57326 of 58879 Old 01-25-2020, 06:01 PM
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[quote=libertyguy20;59153912][QUOTE=MagnumX;59153814]
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyguy20 View Post

Correct.


Nope. ^

So... I recalibrated with the rear atmos channels set to 'rear height' instead of 'rear atmos' (due to actual speaker placement) and listened to some atmos

You didn't hear them in the rear height channel because those sounds are not in the rear height channel on those demos (not here anyway); they're in the rear surround bed channel (the bird and leaf "circle" at bed level). Clearly, the Atmos enabled setting blends more of the rear bed and height together expecting your speaker to be on the ground. I mean if you want the sounds in the wrong place, by all means use the Atmos enabled setting. But those sounds are not overhead here. I was surprised myself that the bird flying around the room in the "Amaze" demo is at bed level, but it is. You can set the speakers both to tops to check too and it won't be in there as the bird is not flying around the ceiling, but at or just above your head. In other words, to gauge whether things are placed correctly, you need to know where the the sounds are supposed to be in the demos.

Something is off then, because the bird did not play in my 4 surround bed channels at all...it was like it didn't exist and it audibly cut out. I'm using demos from XBox dolby app...have a blu Ray coming in mail. Maybe that demo mixes it differently like you said, but the bird noticeably dissapeared with rear height activated across the entire back stage, same for the speed pod. My 7.1 has been working well, so I will need to assess more. Wish my AVR had a more simple channel mute feature to help you isolate individual drivers. Cheers
You should never "lose" something in Atmos as it should always get folded into another channel or partial channel or whatever if something isn't available. Normally, the only way you'd lose something is if something isn't set right or connected wrong.

Try the DTS:X demos and see what happens.

Sound Callout DTS:X Demo: https://www.demolandia.net/downloads.html?id=87980801 (this has a lady announcing which speaker is playing as it shows it on screen)

Object Emulator Demo: https://www.demolandia.net/downloads.html?id=168339619 (a ball moves around the room shown on-screen past the various speakers which you hear as it passes through your actual speakers)
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post #57327 of 58879 Old 01-25-2020, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mystickid View Post
Is there a *BEST * speaker brand for Atmos height speakers? Are there audio quality differences/improvements on one brand over another?

I want the most immersive sound possible within "Atmos".

I'm debating between the Klipsch 500SA and the SVS Prime Elevations?
You're making a common error, which is thinking of speakers in isolation vs the entire system. You don't find the brand with the best fronts, then separately find the "the best center speaker brand", then surrounds etc. It's a speaker *system* and and you can't just ask for advice in a vacuum with no context for the rest of your setup.

If you "want the most immersive sound possible" then you want ALL the speakers to match as closely as possible. Everything works together. Do they have to be literally identical? No, your ears / brain is fairly tolerant and most of the sounds above and around you are ambient or spurious direct effects where you're not likely to notice minor imperfections in timbre matching.

So, the "best speaker for Atmos" is the one which (1) is capable of complementing the output and dynamics of the other speakers, (2) can be aimed at the seating area, (3) has wide enough dispersion to cover the seating area with good sound, and (4) is the best timbre match possible for your other speakers while still managing the previous goals.
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post #57328 of 58879 Old 01-25-2020, 11:09 PM
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Surround Back

Why can i have 1 Surround Back speaker with Auro 2 - 3D, with DTS, but not with Dolby ?
Is there a way around this so i cab still use 1 SB speaker in Dolby also ?

Thanks
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post #57329 of 58879 Old 01-25-2020, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
You're making a common error, which is thinking of speakers in isolation vs the entire system. You don't find the brand with the best fronts, then separately find the "the best center speaker brand", then surrounds etc. It's a speaker *system* and and you can't just ask for advice in a vacuum with no context for the rest of your setup.

If you "want the most immersive sound possible" then you want ALL the speakers to match as closely as possible. Everything works together. Do they have to be literally identical? No, your ears / brain is fairly tolerant and most of the sounds above and around you are ambient or spurious direct effects where you're not likely to notice minor imperfections in timbre matching.

So, the "best speaker for Atmos" is the one which (1) is capable of complementing the output and dynamics of the other speakers, (2) can be aimed at the seating area, (3) has wide enough dispersion to cover the seating area with good sound, and (4) is the best timbre match possible for your other speakers while still managing the previous goals.
I see no harm in getting various speakers in a setup.
We almost all do the same with subwoofers, most of the HT usurers will never get the same brand subwoofer then the set speakers.
An a subwoofer is also for a big part "shaping" the timbre.
And then we have Audyssey that's also doing its part, matching brands or not.
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post #57330 of 58879 Old 01-26-2020, 12:31 AM
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I see no harm in getting various speakers in a setup.
But not optimal for the seven base layers.
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