The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 1915 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #57421 of 58868 Old 01-29-2020, 08:44 AM
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@Kliptick , owning 2014 and 2015 Sammy flagship TVs, and passing on 2016 and 2017s, I wouldn't think you could get Atmos out of the Q80, but I could be wrong; a better place to search/ask is the dedicated thread for your TV.

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post #57422 of 58868 Old 01-29-2020, 08:57 AM
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@MagnumX , so if I want to have a 5.2.2 setup, is it better to place the pair of atmos speakers on the side walls near the MLP or as front heights?
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post #57423 of 58868 Old 01-29-2020, 09:22 AM
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Paradigm 25S surrounds for Dolby Atmos

Hi Folks


I know Dolby recommends monopoles for Atmos (correct me if I am wrong) and I currently have Paradigm 15b's as side surrounds...I just bought a pair of Paradigm 25s's (bipoles)...My room is 12 wide and 17 deep with seating 12 feet back (ie.5 ft available behind the seating)...


Where should I put the bipoles? Back wall or move the 15b's to the back wall and use the bipoles on the side wall? I only have 1 row of seating with 2 chairs and I am in the sweetspot 100 percent of the time...


If the bipoles are on the side walls, will I still "feel" the discreet placement of Atmos on the sides?


Thanks folks...

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post #57424 of 58868 Old 01-29-2020, 09:25 AM
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@MagnumX , so if I want to have a 5.2.2 setup, is it better to place the pair of atmos speakers on the side walls near the MLP or as front heights?
As long as you can get them high enough (like SVS) and your ceiling is close to 8' or more, I'd go with the high side wall speakers as you'll get sounds directly overhead. With only front heights, they'll be in front of you and less noticeable as a result.

Now in a small room, front/rear heights work fine overhead, but as the room gets too long (say >15' or so), you either need a top middle of some kind to bridge the angles (preferably always active like extracted or matrixed as many Atmos tracks won't use them and the DTS 11-channel limit on the other end prevents them; I use extracted) or "tops" speakers or even side heights like SVS spaced out into the room so the angle between them isn't too large (i.e. Side heights mounted the same distances into the room as tops).

With one row of seats, I'd tend to go seat orientated, but with more than one row I'd lean more towards room symmetry (e.g. My top middle/side heights are at the middle of the room (two sets of drivers facing forward and backward) with side surrounds directly below them and front/rear heights at the front/back of the room within a couple feet and then front wides in front of the front row, sides behind it and surround #1 between the second and third row and rear surrounds behind that so everyone gets surrounded.
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post #57425 of 58868 Old 01-29-2020, 09:34 AM
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Hi Folks


I know Dolby recommends monopoles for Atmos (correct me if I am wrong) and I currently have Paradigm 15b's as side surrounds...I just bought a pair of Paradigm 25s's (bipoles)...My room is 12 wide and 17 deep with seating 12 feet back (ie.5 ft available behind the seating)...


Where should I put the bipoles? Back wall or move the 15b's to the back wall and use the bipoles on the side wall? I only have 1 row of seating with 2 chairs and I am in the sweetspot 100 percent of the time...


If the bipoles are on the side walls, will I still "feel" the discreet placement of Atmos on the sides?


Thanks folks...
Bipoles are fine in the back drivers facing forward/backward. This gives them some extra sense of space and may improve the imaging as sounding more palpable in space. Just don't push them right up against the back wall. I'd leave at least 12" for a bipole and 3.5' for a dipole used that way.

You can use them on the sides, but sitting in the null side between drivers doesn't image as well, IMO as a monopole, but if the are used between rows like my side heights, one set of drivers face the front and the other the back. As long as the seats are in the "on-axis" part of the dispersion, it just sounds lie having a monopole facing each direction (kind of like having surround #1 for the rows behind it and side surround in front). But with one row of seats, I don't recommend it used that way.

In short, I'd put them as rear surrounds 12"-16" off the back wall drivers facing front/back towards the MLP and back wall for a more spacious rear sound.
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post #57426 of 58868 Old 01-29-2020, 09:45 AM
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Bipoles are fine in the back drivers facing forward/backward. This gives them some extra sense of space and may improve the imaging as sounding more palpable in space. Just don't push them right up against the back wall. I'd leave at least 12" for a bipole and 3.5' for a dipole used that way.

You can use them on the sides, but sitting in the null side between drivers doesn't image as well, IMO as a monopole, but if the are used between rows like my side heights, one set of drivers face the front and the other the back. As long as the seats are in the "on-axis" part of the dispersion, it just sounds lie having a monopole facing each direction (kind of like having surround #1 for the rows behind it and side surround in front). But with one row of seats, I don't recommend it used that way.

In short, I'd put them as rear surrounds 12"-16" off the back wall drivers facing front/back towards the MLP and back wall for a more spacious rear sound.
Thanks really appreciate the help here...I'll try to provide more context...17' long room, and seating 12 feet back leaving 5 feet between seating and rear wall...In these 5 feet I'll have side surrounds, my 2 ceiling rears, and then rear surrounds...If I follow your suggestion of essentially placing them sideways 12" off the back wall they will essentially be right under my ceiling rears and I only have 88" ceilings...Is that common to place bipoles sideways or are you suggesting given my particular "predicament" sideways will be best? I'm not sure aesthetically I will win any points...I was "hoping" someone would say side wall is fine, even with 1 row of seating, and move my monopoles to the rear wall...But please don't tell me what I want to hear...What would the downside be on the sidewall for the bipoles? Thanks again...


Edit: I know you mentioned the null but I didn't think bipoles had a null, only dipoles...

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post #57427 of 58868 Old 01-29-2020, 10:26 AM
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@asharma - It's not technically a null on a bipole. I just don't know what else to call it. The point is you are sitting between two sets of drivers and the are typically not facing you so response isn't usually as good and you're sitting between a two speaker array so it will sound like a monopole facing you in terms of imaging, but not as clear in terms of frequency response.

Def Tech makes bipole for front/back use (i.e.One driver faces you and the other faces the rear wall). Used like this, they sound more spacious like a natural dipole radiator (e.g. My Carver ribbon speakers upstairs are dipoles used front back and sit like four feet from the front wall to avoid cancelling themselves out) except dipoles don't need to sit so far away from the reflecting wall as the are in phase with each other.

You can use the bipoles on the wall if you like, but you might want to space them forwards or backwards relative to the seating so one driver acts more like a monopole (why mine as side heights are between rows of seats so drivers face each set of seats instead of sitting between the two drivers like you do with surround dipoles.). The frequency response will be better.

If you only have five feet behind you, either put the bipoles on the side walls a few feet in front of you or just behind you with the rears close to the back walls.
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post #57428 of 58868 Old 01-29-2020, 10:38 AM
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@asharma - It's not technically a null on a bipole. I just don't know what else to call it. The point is you are sitting between two sets of drivers and the are typically not facing you so response isn't usually as good and you're sitting between a two speaker array so it will sound like a monopole facing you in terms of imaging, but not as clear in terms of frequency response.

Def Tech makes bipole for front/back use (i.e.One driver faces you and the other faces the rear wall). Used like this, they sound more spacious like a natural dipole radiator (e.g. My Carver ribbon speakers upstairs are dipoles used front back and sit like four feet from the front wall to avoid cancelling themselves out) except dipoles don't need to sit so far away from the reflecting wall as the are in phase with each other.

You can use the bipoles on the wall if you like, but you might want to space them forwards or backwards relative to the seating so one driver acts more like a monopole (why mine as side heights are between rows of seats so drivers face each set of seats instead of sitting between the two drivers like you do with surround dipoles.). The frequency response will be better.

If you only have five feet behind you, either put the bipoles on the side walls a few feet in front of you or just behind you with the rears close to the back walls.
Thanks again, in your last sentence u mention behind me with the rears close to the back walls. Do u still mean place them "sideways" and 12" away from the back wall? I'm sensing I may have been better off just buying another pair of monopoles for the rears and leaving my side monopoles in place...Would that have been better? I have to admit I do like the aesthetic of the side wall with the bipole and like you said perhaps have them forward a bit so the rear driver is firing into my seating row...

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post #57429 of 58868 Old 01-29-2020, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by aarn View Post
@MagnumX , so if I want to have a 5.2.2 setup, is it better to place the pair of atmos speakers on the side walls near the MLP or as front heights?
As long as you can get them high enough (like SVS) and your ceiling is close to 8' or more, I'd go with the high side wall speakers as you'll get sounds directly overhead. With only front heights, they'll be in front of you and less noticeable as a result.
I see. My ceiling is 10', and I have one row 12' from the screen. Thank you!
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post #57430 of 58868 Old 01-29-2020, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
@asharma - It's not technically a null on a bipole. I just don't know what else to call it. The point is you are sitting between two sets of drivers and the are typically not facing you so response isn't usually as good and you're sitting between a two speaker array so it will sound like a monopole facing you in terms of imaging, but not as clear in terms of frequency response.

Def Tech makes bipole for front/back use (i.e.One driver faces you and the other faces the rear wall). Used like this, they sound more spacious like a natural dipole radiator (e.g. My Carver ribbon speakers upstairs are dipoles used front back and sit like four feet from the front wall to avoid cancelling themselves out) except dipoles don't need to sit so far away from the reflecting wall as the are in phase with each other.

You can use the bipoles on the wall if you like, but you might want to space them forwards or backwards relative to the seating so one driver acts more like a monopole (why mine as side heights are between rows of seats so drivers face each set of seats instead of sitting between the two drivers like you do with surround dipoles.). The frequency response will be better.

If you only have five feet behind you, either put the bipoles on the side walls a few feet in front of you or just behind you with the rears close to the back walls.
Thanks again, in your last sentence u mention behind me with the rears close to the back walls. Do u still mean place them "sideways" and 12" away from the back wall? I'm sensing I may have been better off just buying another pair of monopoles for the rears and leaving my side monopoles in place...Would that have been better? I have to admit I do like the aesthetic of the side wall with the bipole and like you said perhaps have them forward a bit so the rear driver is firing into my seating row...
I'd have to see what they look like to be sure, but with two sets five feet behind you they're probably ok to use as you originally imagined. Are the angled bipoles (like 50-70 degrees apart) or 180 degrees apart (front and back drivers)?

I was thinking of my front/back BP10 bipoles for front/back, but I'm getting he impression these ar all angled. I also assume you are saying all four surrounds are bipoles? I apparently wasn't paying close enough attention I've looked at so many setups recently and my phone kind of sucks for going back to look (doesn't seem to like the mobile interface too well; it reloads a lot).

The bottom line is as long as you're getting a good on-axis response in terms of clarity, it'll probably do ok. I can't guarantee they'll sound as good as straight monopoles in terms of pinpoint imaging, but certainly my S50 PSBs do OK bridging my front/rear heights.

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post #57431 of 58868 Old 01-29-2020, 11:49 AM
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I'd have to see what they look like to be sure, but with two sets five feet behind you they're probably ok to use as you originally imagined. Are the angled bipoles (like 50-70 degrees apart) or 180 degrees apart (front and back drivers)?

I was thinking of my front/back BP10 bipoles for front/back, but I'm getting he impression these ar all angled. I also assume you are saying all four surrounds are bipoles? I apparently wasn't paying close enough attention I've looked at so many setups recently and my phone kind of sucks for going back to look (doesn't seem to like the mobile interface too well; it reloads a lot).

The bottom line is as long as you're getting a good on-axis response in terms of clarity, it'll probably do ok. I can't guarantee they'll sound as good as straight monopoles in terms of pinpoint imaging, but certainly my S50 PSBs do OK bridging my front/rear heights.
Thanks, the existing sided surrounds are monopoles, the yet to arrive speakers are bipoles...I was planning on moving the existing monopoles to the back wall and using the yet to arrive bipoles on the side wall...I’ll try to attach a pic of the bipoles...here goes
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post #57432 of 58868 Old 01-29-2020, 12:01 PM
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Here's my HT using Def Tech bipole BPVX's for both side and back surrounds. The smaller BPX's on the outer back walls are for Yamaha's "presence" effects channels and another pair is mirrored on the front wall for the front "presence" effects channels. They are 4' down from the 10' ceiling per Yamaha's specs back in the day, so they are too low to use effectively as height speakers. The side BPVX's are placed in between the rear MLP riser seats and the lower secondary seating. The back surrounds are on stands in between seats 1/2 & 3/4 in the MLP recliners. It creates a decent bubble in the MLP. Just need 4 top speakers now. Heading up into my attic to take a few more measurements before I cut four 9" round holes in my ceiling. I have to say that I'm a bit nervous about this.
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post #57433 of 58868 Old 01-29-2020, 12:09 PM
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Here's my HT using Def Tech bipole BPVX's for both side and back surrounds. The smaller BPX's on the outer back walls are for Yamaha's "presence" effects channels and another pair is mirrored on the front wall for the front "presence" effects channels. They are 4' down from the 10' ceiling per Yamaha's specs back in the day, so they are too low to use effectively as height speakers. The side BPVX's are placed in between the rear MLP riser seats and the lower secondary seating. The back surrounds are on stands in between seats 1/2 & 3/4 in the MLP recliners. It creates a decent bubble in the MLP. Just need 4 top speakers now. Heading up into my attic to take a few more measurements before I cut four 9" round holes in my ceiling. I have to say that I'm a bit nervous about this.
Are u running Atmos now? If u r, do u feel u r getting pinpoint accuracy from the side bipoles?

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post #57434 of 58868 Old 01-29-2020, 12:17 PM
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Are u running Atmos now? If u r, do u feel u r getting pinpoint accuracy from the side bipoles?
Yes, because of the angled design on the Def Techs and the placement, the arrays on the rear of the side surrounds and the inside of the back surrounds aim directly at the 2 center seats where my wife and I sit.

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post #57435 of 58868 Old 01-29-2020, 12:27 PM
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Yes, because of the angled design on the Def Techs and the placement, the arrays on the rear of the side surrounds and the inside of the back surrounds aim directly at the 2 center seats where my wife and I sit.
Thanks, So for your side surrounds, you have them positioned a little more forward that your MLP so the rear drivers of the side surrounds fire directly at the MLP? If yes, what’s the audio implication of having the front drivers of your side surrounds in front of your MLP?

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post #57436 of 58868 Old 01-29-2020, 01:31 PM
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Thanks, So for your side surrounds, you have them positioned a little more forward that your MLP so the rear drivers of the side surrounds fire directly at the MLP? If yes, what’s the audio implication of having the front drivers of your side surrounds in front of your MLP?
Yes, that's what I was trying to suggest when I said either a little forward or backward of the seating area so a set of tweeters and midrange face the seating area. With the other speakers behind, you having the sides a bit in front of you actually works well, IMO. My 2nd row sounds like that and it's probably got freakier surround effects than the front row, although the main stage isn't quite as hard hitting (the volume starts dropping off towards the back and vice versa so it's hard to get all seats "perfect". I actually thought about storing two sets of settings on USB for "compromised for 6 seats in 3 rows" and "optmiized for the front 3 seats. It would basically just crank the front channels a few db and reduce the back channels a few dB so it's more even in the middle row and rear "seat" (hard to call it a 'row' with one seat back there, but it is a centered seat so the surround is quite good).

Here's a little "virtual slideshow" of my home theater room (going in a circle) with the layout diagram I made (not 100% up to date for decorations, but the theater equipment is the same). You can see the S50 bipole wall speakers sitting above the monopole B15 below it just behind the first row and then another B15 "surround #1 ) between the second and third rows with the X1T rears and CS500 Rear heights above them in the back. There's B15s for front wides and front heights (on the bookshelf) as well. They all use the same drivers except the X1T/CS500 in the back and they're just updated drivers from a slightly newer lineup but sound quite similar in practice (all rated +/- 1.5dB across the on-axis main range of each speaker). Notice how the surround and wides, etc. are between the rows instead of on the sides. That let me put the first and second rows much closer to the walls than would otherwise work and thus otherwise I wouldn't be able to fit even six recliners in the room (3 are powered lift chairs I got on sale, BTW, another is a powered massage/heat chair (the MLP) plus two oversized "plush" manual recliners (right front and center mid) so lots of comfy seating options in my Geriatric Theater Mark 2.0.
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Click THEATER (Updated: Nov-12-2019) for pics: Epson 3100 3D Projector, DaLite 92" screen, 11.1.6 (Marantz SR7012 + Yamaha HTR-5960 + Onkyo ESPro) - Dialog Lift - PSB T45/B15/S50/X1T/CS500 Speakers & Def Tech PF-1500 15" sub; 2nd Room (Updated Apr-22-2019): 48" Plasma TV, Carver AL-III, Carver C-5 Pre-Amp, Technics SH-AC500D, Dual Carver TFM-35x Amps (Active Bi-Amp), Klipsch Surrounds ; Sources: PS4, LG UP875 UHD, Nvidia Shield (KODI), ATV4K, Zidoo X9S, LD, GameCube : Props (Updated 6-22-20)
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post #57437 of 58868 Old 01-29-2020, 01:48 PM
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Yes, that's what I was trying to suggest when I said either a little forward or backward of the seating area so a set of tweeters and midrange face the seating area. With the other speakers behind, you having the sides a bit in front of you actually works well, IMO. My 2nd row sounds like that and it's probably got freakier surround effects than the front row, although the main stage isn't quite as hard hitting (the volume starts dropping off towards the back and vice versa so it's hard to get all seats "perfect". I actually thought about storing two sets of settings on USB for "compromised for 6 seats in 3 rows" and "optmiized for the front 3 seats. It would basically just crank the front channels a few db and reduce the back channels a few dB so it's more even in the middle row and rear "seat" (hard to call it a 'row' with one seat back there, but it is a centered seat so the surround is quite good).

Here's a little "virtual slideshow" of my home theater room (going in a circle) with the layout diagram I made (not 100% up to date for decorations, but the theater equipment is the same). You can see the S50 bipole wall speakers sitting above the monopole B15 below it just behind the first row and then another B15 "surround #1 ) between the second and third rows with the X1T rears and CS500 Rear heights above them in the back. There's B15s for front wides and front heights (on the bookshelf) as well. They all use the same drivers except the X1T/CS500 in the back and they're just updated drivers from a slightly newer lineup but sound quite similar in practice (all rated +/- 1.5dB across the on-axis main range of each speaker). Notice how the surround and wides, etc. are between the rows instead of on the sides. That let me put the first and second rows much closer to the walls than would otherwise work and thus otherwise I wouldn't be able to fit even six recliners in the room (3 are powered lift chairs I got on sale, BTW, another is a powered massage/heat chair (the MLP) plus two oversized "plush" manual recliners (right front and center mid) so lots of comfy seating options in my Geriatric Theater Mark 2.0.
Wholly crap, THAT is a boatload of speakers...you must feel totally surrounded! Very nice!

As per your advice, I think I’m going to move the monopoles to rear wall and put the bipoles on the side walls just ahead of the MLP so the rear tweeter and midrange fires into the MLP...that, as you say, when combined with rear ceilings and rear surrounds should work well...What’s your opinion on the forward firing driver being in front of the MLP? What’s the implication when the Atmos signal hits the bipole side surround?

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post #57438 of 58868 Old 01-29-2020, 01:57 PM
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Wholly crap, THAT is a boatload of speakers...you must feel totally surrounded! Very nice!
Thanks. I kind of went nuts finding a way to stuff speakers in every nook and cranny. But it really improves off-axis imaging for the other seats plus looks pretty cool. There aren't too many 17.1 (or more) home theaters out there (yet). I've kind of gone nuts with the movie poster/prop theming though. I wouldn't want to guess how much I have in props at this point (that Cross of Coronado alone back there hanging by the Raiders poster was around $400 with 24K gold plating, real pearls, etc. and looks 99.9% just like the one made for the movie, made by a guy that goes by "Relic Maker" on the RPF (prop) site. I paid just over $800 for the REAL pearl/black touch tip clock/watch lighter from the Maltese Falcon from Sam Spade's desk in mint condition. Ridiculous, I know.


Quote:
As per your advice, I think I’m going to move the monopoles to rear wall and put the bipoles on the side walls just ahead of the MLP so the rear tweeter and midrange fires into the MLP...that, as you say, when combined with rear ceilings and rear surrounds should work well...What’s your opinion on the forward firing driver being in front of the MLP? What’s the implication when the Atmos signal hits the bipole side surround?
Well, it's going to send a sound wave towards the front of the room and create a reflection for better (or more likely worse). Without any seats up there, it's an unnecessary one. I suppose you could always disconnect the drivers if you're worried about them muddying the sound (on my S50, you just unscrew the screws around the drivers and they come forward out the front and are just friction fit tab connectors (I changed the tweeters to extremely good off-axis fabric tweeters for front height and side height since I couldn't tilt them down much or at all, respectively, which gave me better response, but I could have easily disabled the drivers on one side inside of 5 minutes each if I wanted to. But mine point towards front/rear rows so they're both on).

Click THEATER (Updated: Nov-12-2019) for pics: Epson 3100 3D Projector, DaLite 92" screen, 11.1.6 (Marantz SR7012 + Yamaha HTR-5960 + Onkyo ESPro) - Dialog Lift - PSB T45/B15/S50/X1T/CS500 Speakers & Def Tech PF-1500 15" sub; 2nd Room (Updated Apr-22-2019): 48" Plasma TV, Carver AL-III, Carver C-5 Pre-Amp, Technics SH-AC500D, Dual Carver TFM-35x Amps (Active Bi-Amp), Klipsch Surrounds ; Sources: PS4, LG UP875 UHD, Nvidia Shield (KODI), ATV4K, Zidoo X9S, LD, GameCube : Props (Updated 6-22-20)

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post #57439 of 58868 Old 01-29-2020, 02:13 PM
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Thanks. I kind of went nuts finding a way to stuff speakers in every nook and cranny. But it really improves off-axis imaging for the other seats plus looks pretty cool. There aren't too many 17.1 (or more) home theaters out there (yet). I've kind of gone nuts with the movie poster/prop theming though. I wouldn't want to guess how much I have in props at this point (that Cross of Coronado alone back there hanging by the Raiders poster was around $400 with 24K gold plating, real pearls, etc. and looks 99.9% just like the one made for the movie, made by a guy that goes by "Relic Maker" on the RPF (prop) site. I paid just over $800 for the REAL pearl/black touch tip clock/watch lighter from the Maltese Falcon from Sam Spade's desk in mint condition. Ridiculous, I know.


Well, it's going to send a sound wave towards the front of the room and create a reflection for better (or more likely worse). Without any seats up there, it's an unnecessary one. I suppose you could always disconnect the drivers if you're worried about them muddying the sound (on my S50, you just unscrew the screws around the drivers and they come forward out the front and are just friction fit tab connectors (I changed the tweeters to extremely good off-axis fabric tweeters for front height and side height since I couldn't tilt them down much or at all, respectively, which gave me better response, but I could have easily disabled the drivers on one side inside of 5 minutes each if I wanted to. But mine point towards front/rear rows so they're both on).
It’s a crazy hobby so go crazy on the props you want...there is nooooo way that I could possibly justify all the $$ spent on this hobby when it would be much cheaper to just go to the theatre

Uggg, so the front firing driver “sounds” like it will be a problem...I’m thinking I should just go buy another set of monopoles and scrap the whole bipole idea...I’m thinking bipoles are made for multiple rows where you want dispersion but not for a single row of seating...

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post #57440 of 58868 Old 01-29-2020, 02:28 PM
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It’s a crazy hobby so go crazy on the props you want...there is nooooo way that I could possibly justify all the $$ spent on this hobby when it would be much cheaper to just go to the theatre

Uggg, so the front firing driver “sounds” like it will be a problem...I’m thinking I should just go buy another set of monopoles and scrap the whole bipole idea...I’m thinking bipoles are made for multiple rows where you want dispersion but not for a single row of seating...
Don't be so hard on yourself. Just like life, Home Theater at times requires some compromises. Unless you are building a theater totally from scratch without any restrictions, have a wealth of knowledge in acoustics and physics, and carry the Nostradamus gene to forecast future technology changes.
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post #57441 of 58868 Old 01-29-2020, 02:38 PM
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Don't be so hard on yourself. Just like life, Home Theater at times requires some compromises. Unless you are building a theater totally from scratch without any restrictions, have a wealth of knowledge in acoustics and physics, and carry the Nostradamus gene to forecast future technology changes.
Thanks and understood, but rightly or wrongly I am a stickler on the science of this “stuff” to a point as I’m sure someone could walk into my room and easily point out where improvements could be made...

For Atmos, for a single row of seating, I’m now convinced a monopole is scientifically the right answer...the question is, if I mount the bipoles as my sides, will I be able to hear any difference even tho in my mind, I know a monopole scientifically is the proper solution...the bipoles will only be 5-6 feet from each ear...

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post #57442 of 58868 Old 01-29-2020, 02:40 PM
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It’s a crazy hobby so go crazy on the props you want...there is nooooo way that I could possibly justify all the $$ spent on this hobby when it would be much cheaper to just go to the theatre

Uggg, so the front firing driver “sounds” like it will be a problem...I’m thinking I should just go buy another set of monopoles and scrap the whole bipole idea...I’m thinking bipoles are made for multiple rows where you want dispersion but not for a single row of seating...
Why not rig it up to try it first while you have them. I'm not saying it will sound bad. In all likelihood you might not be able to tell the difference either way. Hell set them on some step ladders or chairs or something and try them at different points to the sides and see how they sound. If the off-axis response is good, it might even sound good straight across from the seating or just behind it or whatever (unless can't get a refund if you open them or hook them up, etc.) I probably wouldn't have gone for the S50s offhand if I hadn't already owned them from my previous home theater setup there using 6.1. I just reused a lot of speakers since I like PSB and replaced some tweeters and bought more and found a way to make it all work. I'm still using a Def Tech sub from 1995 for goodness sake! I get flat 20Hz-100Hz response within 1.5dB at the MLP so what do I care if some people have told me it's ancient and no good (like at Audioholics). It sounds damn good to me in the room and the REW curves say it IS damn good. So what if it's old? I'll use it until it breaks and meanwhile add a second sub in the back area near surround #1 by the fireplace (stick that fake fern I have there on top of it to look good). I'll get something better, probably. Maybe something crazy. Hell, for the price of those props, I almost could have had the subwoofer of my dreams (1400W 24" driver based system flat to 14Hz with good response to 7Hz!) called the Mariana 24SR from Deep Sea Sound. (https://www.deepseasound.com/product...r-24-subwoofer). Get the pipe organ music out baby!

Click THEATER (Updated: Nov-12-2019) for pics: Epson 3100 3D Projector, DaLite 92" screen, 11.1.6 (Marantz SR7012 + Yamaha HTR-5960 + Onkyo ESPro) - Dialog Lift - PSB T45/B15/S50/X1T/CS500 Speakers & Def Tech PF-1500 15" sub; 2nd Room (Updated Apr-22-2019): 48" Plasma TV, Carver AL-III, Carver C-5 Pre-Amp, Technics SH-AC500D, Dual Carver TFM-35x Amps (Active Bi-Amp), Klipsch Surrounds ; Sources: PS4, LG UP875 UHD, Nvidia Shield (KODI), ATV4K, Zidoo X9S, LD, GameCube : Props (Updated 6-22-20)
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post #57443 of 58868 Old 01-29-2020, 02:52 PM
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Why not rig it up to try it first while you have them. I'm not saying it will sound bad. In all likelihood you might not be able to tell the difference either way. Hell set them on some step ladders or chairs or something and try them at different points to the sides and see how they sound. If the off-axis response is good, it might even sound good straight across from the seating or just behind it or whatever (unless can't get a refund if you open them or hook them up, etc.) I probably wouldn't have gone for the S50s offhand if I hadn't already owned them from my previous home theater setup there using 6.1. I just reused a lot of speakers since I like PSB and replaced some tweeters and bought more and found a way to make it all work. I'm still using a Def Tech sub from 1995 for goodness sake! I get flat 20Hz-100Hz response within 1.5dB at the MLP so what do I care if some people have told me it's ancient and no good (like at Audioholics). It sounds damn good to me in the room and the REW curves say it IS damn good. So what if it's old? I'll use it until it breaks and meanwhile add a second sub in the back area near surround #1 by the fireplace (stick that fake fern I have there on top of it to look good). I'll get something better, probably. Maybe something crazy. Hell, for the price of those props, I almost could have had the subwoofer of my dreams (1400W 24" driver based system flat to 14Hz with good response to 7Hz!) called the Mariana 24SR from Deep Sea Sound. (https://www.deepseasound.com/product...r-24-subwoofer). Get the pipe organ music out baby!
Thanks, yeah I’m gonna give them a whirl in a few different positions...I doubt I’ll even be able to hear a difference with these old ears...

Edit: Also just read in the Dolby Atmos white paper monopoles or bipoles are fine, just NOT dipoles...

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post #57444 of 58868 Old 01-29-2020, 03:31 PM
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How high should I place my side surround speakers in 9.1.4 atmos system ? 2nd row seats are 12” higher than front row. The whole surround bed will, or course, be the same height BUT should I :

1. Keep side surrounds at ear level or slightly lower (relative to row 2) , to ensure they are <50% of the ceiling height (height speakers are ceiling mounted).

2. Raise the surround bed so it’s slightly above ear level (apparently this is preferred) .. but putting them closer to the ceiling (about 2/3 of the way up). I am concerned this will result in too little separation from the height channels.
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post #57445 of 58868 Old 01-29-2020, 03:59 PM
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@blake - I think you've covered the crutch of the matter. It's a trade off and rather subjective which might be preferred. The theaters go higher but also have high ceilings. You could also consider aligning the surround sounds with the screen 1/3 to 1/2 up so it's more "realistic" in that sense.

Actually the theaters typically stagger the surrounds with the change in elevation of the seating with stadium seating so you could start lower in front and raise the surrounds up with the 2nd row change in height.

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Netflix Dracula season 1, episode 1, is it me or there is a fly in the room?
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post #57447 of 58868 Old 01-29-2020, 10:15 PM
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Thanks, yeah I’m gonna give them a whirl in a few different positions...I doubt I’ll even be able to hear a difference with these old ears...

Edit: Also just read in the Dolby Atmos white paper monopoles or bipoles are fine, just NOT dipoles...

Late to the party on this one but in my testing you do not want bipoles as surrounds unless they are between 2 rows.


Bipoles directly to the side sound like crap compared to monopoles. You can clearly hear the difference and they are not suited for Atmos. I know this from direct testing of replacing a monopole wih a bipole and playing the same source material.


If you put a bipole in front so only one driver is aligned to the MLP you are defeating the purpose of a bipole and may as well just use a monopole.


Put the bipoles on the back wall and enjoy
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post #57448 of 58868 Old 01-29-2020, 10:30 PM
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Late to the party on this one but in my testing you do not want bipoles as surrounds unless they are between 2 rows.


Bipoles directly to the side sound like crap compared to monopoles. You can clearly hear the difference and they are not suited for Atmos. I know this from direct testing of replacing a monopole wih a bipole and playing the same source material.


If you put a bipole in front so only one driver is aligned to the MLP you are defeating the purpose of a bipole and may as well just use a monopole.


Put the bipoles on the back wall and enjoy


Bipoles are useful if you have sit close to them. In my room the two outside seats of my couch are only three feet from the side surrounds. If I used monopoles there I would get overwhelmed by that channel quickly. Bipoles do a good job of spreading the sound without diffusing in it such a way that would muddy the object sounds like dipoles would.


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post #57449 of 58868 Old 01-29-2020, 10:50 PM
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Bipoles are useful if you have sit close to them. In my room the two outside seats of my couch are only three feet from the side surrounds. If I used monopoles there I would get overwhelmed by that channel quickly. Bipoles do a good job of spreading the sound without diffusing in it such a way that would muddy the object sounds like dipoles would.

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My surrounds are also 3' away and I would still not recommend bipoles. I actually turn the settings down by 1.5db on the AVR just to attenuate them a little and I also put them at the lowest distance available on the AVR - this has the effect of delaying that sound and actually makes them appear to be further away - probably not recommended by technical purists but it definitely works for me.

With the bipoles I found that sounds that panned from front to back did not pan smoothly and jumped from just in front of you to just behind you immediately, creating a hole in the sound right beside you.

I usually say that there is no right or wrong for speaker setup (as long as you are roughly in the recommendations) but for this one I am going to stick to my opinion that you should not use bipoles for surrounds (except between rows). It simply does not sound right.

Last edited by niterida; 01-29-2020 at 10:53 PM.
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post #57450 of 58868 Old 01-30-2020, 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted by niterida View Post
My surrounds are also 3' away and I would still not recommend bipoles. I actually turn the settings down by 1.5db on the AVR just to attenuate them a little and I also put them at the lowest distance available on the AVR - this has the effect of delaying that sound and actually makes them appear to be further away - probably not recommended by technical purists but it definitely works for me.

With the bipoles I found that sounds that panned from front to back did not pan smoothly and jumped from just in front of you to just behind you immediately, creating a hole in the sound right beside you.

I usually say that there is no right or wrong for speaker setup (as long as you are roughly in the recommendations) but for this one I am going to stick to my opinion that you should not use bipoles for surrounds (except between rows). It simply does not sound right.
Appreciate the input from everyone...that’s why this forum is great...given I’m committed to my bipoles like the pig is to bacon, I’ll do some testing first...if I don’t like em, I’ll flip em out and buy another pair of Paradigm 15bs...

I not sure these old ears will hear a difference...the back 5 feet of my room, behind and beside my seating position I have side surrounds, rear ceilings (ceilings only 88” high) and rear surrounds so I don’t have a lot of separation to begin with which probably results in a bunch of non standard wacky things that happen with sound...

Video:JVC NX7, 125” 2.35 Stewart ST100 Electric, Sony 85” 900F Sony 55” 900F
Audio: Paradigm Prestige 95, 55C, 15b, 25s, Dual SVS SB3000
Receiver/Amp: Anthem 1120, Emotiva XPA-11 Gen 3
Source: Panasonic UB820, Triple black velvet batcave

Last edited by asharma; 01-30-2020 at 02:33 AM.
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