The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 1954 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 28510Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #58591 of 58882 Old 05-24-2020, 08:53 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
FilmMixer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Los Angeles Area, CA. USA
Posts: 8,807
Mentioned: 174 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2403 Post(s)
Liked: 3260
Quote:
Originally Posted by dschulz View Post
Are the newer Atmos rooms focused on broadcast/streaming content mostly 7.1.4, or are they starting to move to 9.1.6 or even more channels?
Most rooms that are brand new (built in the last 2 years), that I have seen, are 9.1.6 or more.... a majority of the retrofit projects have been 7.1.4..
appelz, sdrucker, galonzo and 3 others like this.
FilmMixer is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #58592 of 58882 Old 05-24-2020, 09:09 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 15,183
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5035 Post(s)
Liked: 3049
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
Why do you think that is the case ?

I’ve ceros my seen none of that behavior. As a matter of fact the company I now work for has built 5 “broadcast” centric Atmos rooms in the last two years and all of them are a bit bigger than most similar rooms around. That’s in addition to the other 6+ rooms and facilities I’ve seen come online.

I would argue the way consumers listen to broadcast/tv/OTT content, and the quality of tv speakers, sound bars and headphones used to hear them, has lead to a better experience for a vast majority of consumers. No one I know mixes any differently now than they did for the last long while...

And since I made the transition to doing mainly broadcast content, about 3-4 years ago, I have almost no clients ask to hear it on “small” or TV speakers.... we have a new generation of creatives and show runners in this world and the are generally, and genuinely, focused on making the best soundtracks available without concern for the “lowest common denominator...”

I would argue things are going the other way.. we can see the shrinking of the need for large scale auditorium sized mixing stages due to the changes in the film business as a whole and the types and quantity of theatrical only “large scale” films., while broadcast mixing stages are getting better


Just my .02

Ps.. regarding your earlier comment about Dolby enabling 7.1.4 printouts... the ability for their software to do that only came out in the latest release of their software, released only a few months back. As I’ve mentioned in the last took a bit of work to make that happen in the past...

I am discussing the possibility of trending quality downward as an unfortunate side result of the tenuous circumstances surrounding traditional theatrical distribution on the BIG screen due to this pandemic.



AMC and other cinema companies are hanging on by their fingertips and if we have continuous spikes of outbreaks (despite the fudging of the numbers happening in some states - like Colorado and Florida as but two examples - to make it appear things are winding down, so they can "open back up") because of mismanagement of the crisis, then I can only see theatrical distribution as an endangered species. Why would people risk their lives and dwindling funds on going to a communal place like a theater? I'm glad you still have a job, but many people no longer do. Some might risk it, but not enough to keep things afloat.



If this worse case scenario plays out, then the majority of sound systems playing back these soundtracks will be in the home. We've already noticed on this and other HT boards the damage to dynamics, volume, surround activity, diminished Atmos tracks (fixed print-outs, the minimal use of the immersive formats' full capabilities for various reasons), severely filtered bass tracks (not to fix clipping and distortion that may have occurred in a previous mixes due to lack of QC, but to add a severe low frequency roll-off at about 30 Hz). Maybe you as a seasoned audio engineer don't subscribe to these mixing "foibles" (thank you for that), but it is too often occurring to be one-off events. The latest victims appear to be Top Gun and The War of the Worlds on 4k disc at least as far as bass is concerned.



Then take this to the next step... studios continue to lose revenue causing a shifting from big screen oriented releases to smaller home screen releases. Since more people are listening with, dare I say it, less than adequate sound systems, and with a lack of dual soundtracks on disc or streaming (an A Grade primary track designed for high end home theaters that normally contain subs and speakers that can handle the dynamics and low bass a heck of a lot better, and a B Grade track optimized for sound bars and the like that cannot handle a full-throated audio track), why mix for the best home systems that may have Trinnovs or other high speaker count processors (that can do 9.1.6 or possibly larger immersive layouts - prices have fallen and that as spurred a trend toward somewhat more reasonable >7.1.4 receivers and pre-amp interest on these boards as we want to take advantage of Atmos' 3D object capabilities to improve surround immersion and precision) and other top flight equipment, which are costlier to set up in mixing studios? Your employer may have installed some state-of-the-art dubbing and mixing rooms (that's great!), but can it sustain itself with this economic change in the weather? Will other audio post houses be so bold in the future?



===


You also have brought up a point that we don't fully understand how home Atmos works. Given that some literature has come to light (at least starting a few pages back) on consumer Dolby Atmos, its use of spatial compression, etc., can you help explain what it is talking about in layman's terms... or debunk it if it is incorrect information? Some software that looks at disc metadata seems to indicate that the Meridian Lossless Stream (aka Dolby TrueHD) on the Dolby Atmos tracks is carved up into a maximum of 16 "channels" with many tracks only using 11. Is this inaccurate?



Your assistance and expertise would be most helpful in clearing up any questions or misconceptions or speculation that have been floating around for some time.



Thank you for your time and continued patronage.
mrtickleuk likes this.

Listen up, studios! Dolby Atmos Lite™ print-outs must stop!!
Dan Hitchman is online now  
post #58593 of 58882 Old 05-24-2020, 09:46 AM
Member
 
Tex_Thai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Mae Sai, Thailand
Posts: 155
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Hi guys,
Can I ask for a little help troubleshooting here please? I have a 7.2.4 system set up with ATMOS in mind, dedicated home theater.
Been enjoying it for years as surround sound, but added a 4K Pioneer LX500 player around 6 months ago, 4 ceiling speakers and a new Marantz AV7705 to get some ATMOS.
All well and good, loving it, not perfect, but wow for movies. Dolby Surround nice for music too. Then roughly 2 weeks ago, I played an ATMOS disc (I am disc only here in Thailand, keeping Amazon alive and wealthy) and my shipping company too, started to get some strange popping, ticks, digital loud noises, ATMOS flashing on my Marantz back and forth to something else, then GONE. My Marantz will no longer recognize Dolby TrueHD Multi any more, and now no sound comes through unless I change to another language on the disc, change to Thai 5.1 and all is fine, IF I understood Thai. DTS HD MA discs are the same, except there is still major cracks and pops, sounds like morse code and is no longer recognized by the Marantz. There was a FW upgrade around that time for the Marantz, but no one else is calling them out on this problem. Checked everything I can think of, the disc player on bitstream, my HDMI cables are 2.0b or 2.1 compatible, certified, and have not changed an inch since they were working great. HD codecs cannot be read. 4K Hacksaw Ridge, Deepwater Horizon, Ghost in the Shell (BD), 4K Battleship DTS:X all gone.
Any ideas? Done all the resets, one guy said to reset it 10 times in a row, and I did. Still the same.
I think the Marantz has crapped itself.
But I would love a simple, keep it in place and only have to do a FW upgrade to fix it. Did a factory reset and that took it back to an original FW but that too was the same.
Open to suggestions,
God Bless,
Wayne
Tex_Thai is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #58594 of 58882 Old 05-24-2020, 10:42 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
PeterTHX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,556
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 585 Post(s)
Liked: 447
Tex, you may want to try changing out your cabling just in case. It is possible there has been some degradation or oxidation in the cable itself over time.

I've seen this happen on both "cheap" and expensive cables.
galonzo, Tex_Thai and Polyrythm1k like this.

My opinions do not reflect the policies of my company
PeterTHX is offline  
post #58595 of 58882 Old 05-25-2020, 12:46 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Matt L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Flushing, MI
Posts: 6,158
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 830 Post(s)
Liked: 688
One of the other audio sites had an article about Dolby removing some aspects of Atmos from 2020 receivers and beyond. DSU Dolby Surround Upmixer. Can't say I'm familiar with this option, anyone using it? Or is it called something different for each manufacturer?
Matt L is offline  
post #58596 of 58882 Old 05-25-2020, 02:45 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dfa973's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: EU
Posts: 1,950
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1348 Post(s)
Liked: 1394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt L View Post
One of the other audio sites had an article about Dolby removing some aspects of Atmos from 2020 receivers and beyond. DSU Dolby Surround Upmixer. Can't say I'm familiar with this option, anyone using it? Or is it called something different for each manufacturer?
Yeah, the removing of Center Spread feature from the Dolby Surround upmixer. Old news... It happened in 2019 (based on a 2018 issued Dolby mandate)..., not this year..., for the 2019 generation and beyond.

Center Spread is VERY useful when listening to Stereo music.
dfa973 is online now  
post #58597 of 58882 Old 05-25-2020, 02:45 AM
Advanced Member
 
Apgood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 542
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 205 Post(s)
Liked: 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt L View Post
One of the other audio sites had an article about Dolby removing some aspects of Atmos from 2020 receivers and beyond. DSU Dolby Surround Upmixer. Can't say I'm familiar with this option, anyone using it? Or is it called something different for each manufacturer?
You have a link?
Apgood is offline  
post #58598 of 58882 Old 05-25-2020, 06:24 AM
Member
 
Tex_Thai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Mae Sai, Thailand
Posts: 155
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post
Tex, you may want to try changing out your cabling just in case. It is possible there has been some degradation or oxidation in the cable itself over time.

I've seen this happen on both "cheap" and expensive cables.
Thanks very much PeterTHX, that was a great suggestion in fact, one I realized immediately that I should have done, even though I had not touched the cables from when the Marantz was playing ATMOS and DTS:X.
And I did change out the cable, unfortunately nothing changed at all.
DEAD
GONE
Any other suggestions would be very welcome.
Thanks, God Bless,
Wayne
Tex_Thai is online now  
post #58599 of 58882 Old 05-25-2020, 07:51 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 442
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 240 Post(s)
Liked: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apgood View Post
You have a link?

https://www.audioholics.com/audio-te...es/dolby-music
Polyrythm1k is online now  
post #58600 of 58882 Old 05-25-2020, 09:22 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
MagnumX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 2,692
Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1606 Post(s)
Liked: 1080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polyrythm1k View Post
I never understood the big deal of the spread feature to begin with. The entire point of the center channel speaker is to lock dialog/vocals in the center. Stereo spread defeats that purpose, acting more or less like an arrayed center channel speaker at best. Changing the "spread value" on older DPLII receivers just seems to direct less to the center channel and more to the mains, making it closer to stereo. With DSU that supports it, it's just on/off so you could just defeat your center channel while listening to music to achieve a very similar effect (i.e. let the mains do the work). Yes, 'some' still goes to the center, but it's greatly reduced and has little effect on the precedence effect for off axis listeners so why even bother? You then have to turn it back OFF again if you're using with movies to get the full center effect (just as much bother as shutting off the center speaker, IMO). In other words why even use the center channel at all with music if it doesn't sound as good to you as your mains?

Meanwhile, with three identical speakers here, the only real difference I hear when I switch Center Spread on/off is that if I'm sitting off-axis, it pulls to the nearest speaker (like stereo). Sitting at the MLP, the effect with it on or off sounds IDENTICAL here. PLII, that DSU is based off of, doesn't pull hard to the center to begin with like PLI so it's already better for music. I think the center spread mode had non-identical center channel speakers in mind that are just plain inferior to the mains. These days with wall mounted sets or projectors, many people can now use three identical speakers and the mode has no purpose at that point, IMO. I wouldn't be surprised if Dolby thought the setting was just plain confusing to many people as its benefits are dubious at best and non-existent (as far as my ears can hear, at least) with three identical mains.

To be certain (as I was going by memory), I just went downstairs and tried some very familiar Tori Amos songs (from Scarlett's Walk) and compared Stereo and DSU with Center Spread On/Off on my system that has three identical PSB T-45s in front. From the MLP, I couldn't hear any difference at all with it on/off. Off-axis, it wasn't centered any longer and stereo had the same front stage, but of course there were no longer sounds coming from the surrounds speakers. I just leave it OFF for that reason and off-axis seats at least get vocals centered with DSU music. Truth be told, I prefer stereo mode for 2-channel music most of the time anyway. Those songs weren't designed to put out-of-phase material behind you or to the sides. They were mixed with only 2 speakers in mind.
Panson likes this.

Click THEATER (Updated: Nov-12-2019) for pics: Epson 3100 3D Projector, DaLite 92" screen, 11.1.6 (Marantz SR7012 + Yamaha HTR-5960 + Onkyo ESPro) - Dialog Lift - PSB T45/B15/S50/X1T/CS500 Speakers & Def Tech PF-1500 15" sub; 2nd Room (Updated Apr-22-2019): 48" Plasma TV, Carver AL-III, Carver C-5 Pre-Amp, Technics SH-AC500D, Dual Carver TFM-35x Amps (Active Bi-Amp), Klipsch Surrounds ; Sources: PS4, LG UP875 UHD, Nvidia Shield (KODI), ATV4K, Zidoo X9S, LD, GameCube : Props (Updated 6-22-20)
MagnumX is offline  
post #58601 of 58882 Old 05-26-2020, 11:49 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
b_scott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Des Plaines, IL
Posts: 7,783
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 733 Post(s)
Liked: 273
what are some of the best pieces of media to play to show off Atmos? Once I'm set up I'll want some movies/etc to test it.

Shadow Theater Build: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-dedicated-theater-design-construction/3141596-shadow-theater-build.html
b_scott is offline  
post #58602 of 58882 Old 05-26-2020, 11:53 AM
Member
 
bobbyhollywood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 175
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by b_scott View Post
what are some of the best pieces of media to play to show off Atmos? Once I'm set up I'll want some movies/etc to test it.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/301-a...d-blu-ray.html
b_scott likes this.
bobbyhollywood is online now  
post #58603 of 58882 Old 05-26-2020, 03:29 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ricoflashback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Colorful Colorado
Posts: 3,759
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2082 Post(s)
Liked: 1575
Quote:
Originally Posted by b_scott View Post
what are some of the best pieces of media to play to show off Atmos? Once I'm set up I'll want some movies/etc to test it.
***So a couple movies not on that list - Unbroken (incredible bombing run scene in the beginning. If that doesn't knock your socks off with Dolby Atmos, nothing will.) 2. Sully - when the plane starts having mechanical problems, this Dolby Atmos audio will have you reaching for the "Call Button" just above your airplane seat. 3. Fury - especially if you have a good subwoofer. Not a movie that you want to play late at night as it will sound like the tanks are moving through your house.

For streaming and if you have Netflix - - the movie Extraction. Best DD+ Atmos via ARC that I've heard to date. Enjoy!

Home Theater Setup
SONY 75X900F & 49X900E, Denon X6700H & Emotiva XPA-3, OPPO 103 - 9.1.4 Setup - Speakers - Studio 60's-V.5 (FL/FR), CC-690-V.5 (C), ADP 590-V.5 (SS), MilleniaOne 2.0 (BS) - Velodyne 810 Sub, Cornered Audio (FH/RH), Definitive Technology (Front Wides). Stereo 2 Channel Only - Dali Evidence 470 & MartinLogan Forte Amplifier/Streamer with ARC.
Ricoflashback is offline  
post #58604 of 58882 Old 05-26-2020, 04:44 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
b_scott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Des Plaines, IL
Posts: 7,783
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 733 Post(s)
Liked: 273
Thanks!

Shadow Theater Build: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-dedicated-theater-design-construction/3141596-shadow-theater-build.html
b_scott is offline  
post #58605 of 58882 Old 05-27-2020, 07:05 AM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
tigerhonaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN. USA
Posts: 2,507
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1069 Post(s)
Liked: 1321
Post

The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version)


Up-Date,

Atmos will be installed in a few weeks from now !!!

[B]Both the "Install" dates and the "Audio/Video" Custom Calibration Dates are ... Set !

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...l#post59708996

Things guys are finally coming together nicely.

Terry
audiofan1 likes this.
tigerhonaker is offline  
post #58606 of 58882 Old 05-28-2020, 03:56 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dfa973's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: EU
Posts: 1,950
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1348 Post(s)
Liked: 1394
I have recently watched the War of the Worlds 4K Blu-ray - with Atmos - I also have the 2005 DVD with 5.1 DTS and the 2010 Bluray with DTS-HD 7.1.
Watching, again and again, the scene at 20-21 minutes when the tripod emerges from the ground - the older DTS soundtrack practically starts to shake my floor and the couch during that scene.
But the new 2020 Atmos and the 2010 DTS-HD soundtracks probably are based on the same (2010) master - and sound different than the 2005 5.1 DTS, with weak LFE, my floor, and couch do not vibrate when the earth is cracking... I need to add 7-10dB to the LFE so it can get near the DTS track, but the rumblings are not the same at all, everything is subdued... The fun is gone...
galonzo and Tex_Thai like this.
dfa973 is online now  
post #58607 of 58882 Old 05-28-2020, 07:07 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
MagnumX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 2,692
Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1606 Post(s)
Liked: 1080
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
I have recently watched the War of the Worlds 4K Blu-ray - with Atmos - I also have the 2005 DVD with 5.1 DTS and the 2010 Bluray with DTS-HD 7.1.
Watching, again and again, the scene at 20-21 minutes when the tripod emerges from the ground - the older DTS soundtrack practically starts to shake my floor and the couch during that scene.
But the new 2020 Atmos and the 2010 DTS-HD soundtracks probably are based on the same (2010) master - and sound different than the 2005 5.1 DTS, with weak LFE, my floor, and couch do not vibrate when the earth is cracking... I need to add 7-10dB to the LFE so it can get near the DTS track, but the rumblings are not the same at all, everything is subdued... The fun is gone... [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif[/IMG]
And yet someone in the mixing industry claimed recently they do not mix for sound bars and the like. I call bologna. There's an entire thread on here dedicated to measuring LFE levels on Atmos/X mixes compared to prior 5.1-7.1 mixes and it's shocking how many titles are reduced in bass levels (in truth sound effects are also often reduced relative to dialog levels as well to improve dialog intelligibility at lower volume levels. (e.g. The Matrix in both Atmos and the earlier Dolby Digital version are up to 9dB lower in sound effects when dialog matched to the cinema DTS version and that's considered a great Atmos title by most people, but is nowhere near as explosive sounding in some scenes compared to the original cinema version).

It's not every title, obviously. I directly compared my DTS laserdisc of Jurassic Park to the new DTS:X soundtrack on the 4K UHD Bluray and surprisingly it was within 2dB at all times at the MLP for bass output, sometimes slightly lower or higher but extremely close. Some say it was too loud on laserdisc so they're probably unhappy the DTS:X track is true to the original, but it's nowhere near Blade Runner 2049, which is insane in terms of bass levels and almost everyone I've seen praises that soundtrack as being awesome (it is).

Another example is Hellboy II. The 7.1 Bluray has much more bass than the DTS:X disc, especially as it approaches and well into the subsonic frequency range. It's sad, but it seems home cinema is getting tamer even as Atmos was designed to be an improvement at the theater. Disney has been even worse than average for years now.

Click THEATER (Updated: Nov-12-2019) for pics: Epson 3100 3D Projector, DaLite 92" screen, 11.1.6 (Marantz SR7012 + Yamaha HTR-5960 + Onkyo ESPro) - Dialog Lift - PSB T45/B15/S50/X1T/CS500 Speakers & Def Tech PF-1500 15" sub; 2nd Room (Updated Apr-22-2019): 48" Plasma TV, Carver AL-III, Carver C-5 Pre-Amp, Technics SH-AC500D, Dual Carver TFM-35x Amps (Active Bi-Amp), Klipsch Surrounds ; Sources: PS4, LG UP875 UHD, Nvidia Shield (KODI), ATV4K, Zidoo X9S, LD, GameCube : Props (Updated 6-22-20)

Last edited by MagnumX; 05-28-2020 at 08:38 AM.
MagnumX is offline  
post #58608 of 58882 Old 05-28-2020, 07:29 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 442
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 240 Post(s)
Liked: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
I have recently watched the War of the Worlds 4K Blu-ray - with Atmos - I also have the 2005 DVD with 5.1 DTS and the 2010 Bluray with DTS-HD 7.1.
Watching, again and again, the scene at 20-21 minutes when the tripod emerges from the ground - the older DTS soundtrack practically starts to shake my floor and the couch during that scene.
But the new 2020 Atmos and the 2010 DTS-HD soundtracks probably are based on the same (2010) master - and sound different than the 2005 5.1 DTS, with weak LFE, my floor, and couch do not vibrate when the earth is cracking... I need to add 7-10dB to the LFE so it can get near the DTS track, but the rumblings are not the same at all, everything is subdued... The fun is gone...

Sad indeed. It has been covered pretty well on the ultimate list of bass movies with graphs thread. Iirc, 30hz is where the filter is at. I hate the lowest common denominator soundbar mix.
Polyrythm1k is online now  
post #58609 of 58882 Old 05-28-2020, 10:35 AM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
sdrucker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,581
Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1847 Post(s)
Liked: 1571
Newflash (I think):
Tidal is supporting Dolby Atmos for a broad set of devices. See here:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc...E#77501f366cce

This is major news if it's true. And being able to play back on an Apple TV 4K or newer Nvidia shields will be a dealmaker. I've got a Trinnov with two pairs of side surrounds and left/right center, so maybe we'll be able tell if this is true Dolby Atmos with object passthrough..

But not Roku? It has Tidal but I don’t see it listed.

EDIT:
I just installed on my Apple TV. Once you log in or set up the trial if you don't have an account, you'll be told that your system supports Dolby Atmos and you will start seeing Dolby Atmos content on the list of clips when you open Tidal (it might take a little scrolling).

I listened to the first clip from “Atmos for Androids”, which seems like 7.1.4. Putting on REM’s ”Automatic for the People”. I’m seeing all my speakers lighting up on Everybody Hurts, and I’m getting Dolby Atmos on the inputs. Yay!

Also played All I Want to Do by Sheryl Crow and I'm getting what sounds like discrete content out of my wides on the chorus - acoustic guitar distinct from what you're hearing in the mains or front heights, as well as almost all my speakers lighting up (i.e. front and rear heights, then the top middles playing some vocals at a subdued level on the chorus, but not the left/right centers except on one REM cut). Double Yay! This is what we've been waiting for, some of us....something that's not just marketing speak for an upmixer or virtualizer for headphones...

One thing I am curious about, which might fall into "a difference that is no difference is no difference": since I have the BluRay for REM's album in Atmos, I wonder if it's the same Atmos mix as on the BD or one done specifically for "Atmos Music". Don't have the time now but I might A/B it to see.

Audio Gear: Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channel), NAD M27 amps (3)
Video: JVC RS600, Seymour 100" UF Screen, Lumagen Radiance Pro 4444 (coming soon)
Speakers: PSB Imagine T3 LCR, Imagine T Wides/Side Surround 1, T2 Side Surrounds, Imagine XB rears, Image B6 screens, PSB CS1000 ceilings (6), HSU ULS-15 Mk 2 subs (4) - 13.4.6
HAA HT1 and HT2 Certification

Last edited by sdrucker; 05-28-2020 at 12:28 PM.
sdrucker is offline  
post #58610 of 58882 Old 05-28-2020, 11:55 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
galonzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: most usually, somewhere in the midwest...
Posts: 2,489
Mentioned: 174 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1550 Post(s)
Liked: 2159
Just curious @MagnumX , but do you use any of the immersive upmixers when you are comparing those old LD DTS tracks (or even the 7.1 DTS-HD MA tracks) to the updated Atmos or DTS:X mixes (or maybe not to compare, but when you're just enjoying them), and if so, which upmixer do you tend to prefer?

Main: XBR-85X950H | X4500H (5.1.4) | UDP-203 | TiVo Bolt | 2019 Shield Pro | PS4 Pro | CCU
2nd: XBR-65X950G | LG LAS855M | UBD-K8500 | TiVo Mini | ATV (4thGen)
3rd: 65P-F1 | Klipsch HDT-SB3 | UBP-X700 | Tivo Roamio | AppleTV4K | Roku P+ (4630)
FS - Dr. Strangelove (1964) and other UHD Digital codes (and some HD codes)
galonzo is online now  
post #58611 of 58882 Old 05-28-2020, 01:09 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
usc1995's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sunny Southern California
Posts: 1,006
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 537 Post(s)
Liked: 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Newflash (I think):
Tidal is supporting Dolby Atmos for a broad set of devices. See here:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc...E#77501f366cce

This is major news if it's true. And being able to play back on an Apple TV 4K or newer Nvidia shields will be a dealmaker. I've got a Trinnov with two pairs of side surrounds and left/right center, so maybe we'll be able tell if this is true Dolby Atmos with object passthrough..

But not Roku? It has Tidal but I don’t see it listed.

EDIT:
I just installed on my Apple TV. Once you log in or set up the trial if you don't have an account, you'll be told that your system supports Dolby Atmos and you will start seeing Dolby Atmos content on the list of clips when you open Tidal (it might take a little scrolling).

I listened to the first clip from “Atmos for Androids”, which seems like 7.1.4. Putting on REM’s ”Automatic for the People”. I’m seeing all my speakers lighting up on Everybody Hurts, and I’m getting Dolby Atmos on the inputs. Yay!

Also played All I Want to Do by Sheryl Crow and I'm getting what sounds like discrete content out of my wides on the chorus - acoustic guitar distinct from what you're hearing in the mains or front heights, as well as almost all my speakers lighting up (i.e. front and rear heights, then the top middles playing some vocals at a subdued level on the chorus, but not the left/right centers except on one REM cut). Double Yay! This is what we've been waiting for, some of us....something that's not just marketing speak for an upmixer or virtualizer for headphones...

One thing I am curious about, which might fall into "a difference that is no difference is no difference": since I have the BluRay for REM's album in Atmos, I wonder if it's the same Atmos mix as on the BD or one done specifically for "Atmos Music". Don't have the time now but I might A/B it to see.
This is great news! I wonder about the number of available tracks as it seems there aren't a whole lot of Atmos music albums that get released that we hear about. I know that Universal was supposed to be working on Atmos remixes for lots of their artists but I don't feel like we have seen a lot of it for sale yet. Maybe they were saving them for streaming? Would you be able to check some recent high profile releases to see if they are available? Specifically, the new Pearl Jam album, Abbey Road by The Beatles, Kick by INXS and anything by U2? I am a Spotify subscriber currently but would consider Tidal if they have a decent library of Atmos tracks to consider.
galonzo likes this.
usc1995 is offline  
post #58612 of 58882 Old 05-28-2020, 01:52 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ricoflashback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Colorful Colorado
Posts: 3,759
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2082 Post(s)
Liked: 1575
***So what's the difference between a multi-channel SACD & and a streaming, Dolby Atmos music offering?

Home Theater Setup
SONY 75X900F & 49X900E, Denon X6700H & Emotiva XPA-3, OPPO 103 - 9.1.4 Setup - Speakers - Studio 60's-V.5 (FL/FR), CC-690-V.5 (C), ADP 590-V.5 (SS), MilleniaOne 2.0 (BS) - Velodyne 810 Sub, Cornered Audio (FH/RH), Definitive Technology (Front Wides). Stereo 2 Channel Only - Dali Evidence 470 & MartinLogan Forte Amplifier/Streamer with ARC.
Ricoflashback is offline  
post #58613 of 58882 Old 05-28-2020, 03:41 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
MagnumX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 2,692
Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1606 Post(s)
Liked: 1080
Quote:
Originally Posted by galonzo View Post
Just curious @MagnumX , but do you use any of the immersive upmixers when you are comparing those old LD DTS tracks (or even the 7.1 DTS-HD MA tracks) to the updated Atmos or DTS:X mixes (or maybe not to compare, but when you're just enjoying them), and if so, which upmixer do you tend to prefer?
I tried the Jurassic Park DTS laserdisc track with and without upmixers (I took the measurements without them). But I also compared some scenes with Neural X decoding, which I prefer most of the time over DSU (once in awhile, usually for 2-channel soundtracks I like DSU better as sometimes the dialog ends up "low" in my "dialog lift" system with Neural X when it's using 2.0 channel soundtracks and DSU puts them right in the middle of my screen. But typically, Neural X does a much better job of putting overhead type sounds (e.g. thunder, airplanes, helicopters, etc.) overhead whereas DSU often has them at or closer to ear level.

In the case of Jurassic Park, right at the beginning when the Raptor is trying to get out of that cage, there's a sound in the DTS:X version that passes right behind my MLP chair (halfway point of the room). That's something the 5.1 soundtrack literally cannot do if expanded into the rear speakers (7.1 bed level with any mode that uses the rear surrounds) as they would move in the back of the room instead of the side/middle of the room. But the DTS:X soundtrack has no such limitations. It can move things across the room at any point from front to back clearly. In the DTS laserdisc version, the sound does indeed move across the back of the room instead unless I limit it to 5.1 bed-level speakers only, but then I miss the rear surround effects that the DTS:X version ALSO has. So the DTS:X version still wins for "immersion" even compared to the Neural X upmixer, which does a pretty good job of expanding it, but it's a bit more nebulous and some sounds are flat out in different places. Sometimes, Neural X comes very close with TrueHD 7.1 bed level soundtracks to the Atmos rendering, but other times some sounds end up in different places (not always in Atmos' favor with some soundtracks, oddly enough, but this is subjective, of course).

I was more interested, however in seeing if the DTS:X version of Jurassic Park nullified the bass levels like so many other soundtracks do. But seeing as my subwoofer only plays down to 20Hz, I can't be certain that it still doesn't cut subsonic frequencies compared to the laserdisc version (I leave that for that bass thread where people have the tools to test it, etc.), but in terms of average levels, at least, the bass is just as loud in the DTS:X version as the laserdisc version. I've had people vehemently tell me that DTS was too darn loud in the bass department in the 1990s (Dolby Digital versions were usually 3-5 dB lower for the same title), but the fact is that soundtracks like Blade Runner 2049 in Dolby Atmos (Auro-3D version as well; I have both here) have WAY more bass than Jurassic Park (it's not even funny; Blade Runner 2049 made me jump out of my chair the first time I played it accidentally at reference level!) right at the very beginning (arguably the loudest bass notes in the entire movie). So if Jurassic Park had too much bass, WTF do titles like Blade Runner 2049 have? MEGA BASS? Whatever it is, I like it!

Put on Labyrinth in Dolby Atmos and it's wimpy wimpy wimpy with almost no effects the original 2-channel (Pro Logic) version didn't have (a few key action moments have something added). My feeling is if you're going to redo a track in Dolby Atmos, go FULL TILT or go home. They can always include the original 2-channel or 5.1 channel version as well (some do like The Matrix, although that's the original Dolby Digital home track, not the Cinema DTS one which is up to 9dB louder for sound effects compared to dialog).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post
***So what's the difference between a multi-channel SACD & and a streaming, Dolby Atmos music offering?

5.1 versus up to 34.1 including up to 10 overhead speakers.
galonzo, vn800art and Panson like this.

Click THEATER (Updated: Nov-12-2019) for pics: Epson 3100 3D Projector, DaLite 92" screen, 11.1.6 (Marantz SR7012 + Yamaha HTR-5960 + Onkyo ESPro) - Dialog Lift - PSB T45/B15/S50/X1T/CS500 Speakers & Def Tech PF-1500 15" sub; 2nd Room (Updated Apr-22-2019): 48" Plasma TV, Carver AL-III, Carver C-5 Pre-Amp, Technics SH-AC500D, Dual Carver TFM-35x Amps (Active Bi-Amp), Klipsch Surrounds ; Sources: PS4, LG UP875 UHD, Nvidia Shield (KODI), ATV4K, Zidoo X9S, LD, GameCube : Props (Updated 6-22-20)
MagnumX is offline  
post #58614 of 58882 Old 05-28-2020, 05:34 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dschulz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,150
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 955 Post(s)
Liked: 691
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Newflash (I think):
Tidal is supporting Dolby Atmos for a broad set of devices. See here:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc...E#77501f366cce

This is major news if it's true. And being able to play back on an Apple TV 4K or newer Nvidia shields will be a dealmaker. I've got a Trinnov with two pairs of side surrounds and left/right center, so maybe we'll be able tell if this is true Dolby Atmos with object passthrough..

But not Roku? It has Tidal but I don’t see it listed.
This is *great* news, what I've been hoping for all along since the first announcements of the Atmos Music initiative. Now if only Apple Music would get onboard...


Quote:
One thing I am curious about, which might fall into "a difference that is no difference is no difference": since I have the BluRay for REM's album in Atmos, I wonder if it's the same Atmos mix as on the BD or one done specifically for "Atmos Music". Don't have the time now but I might A/B it to see.
I would hope that they're the same mix, just (presumably) losslessly compressed with TrueHD on the BluRay and with lossy compression on the stream - but it would be great to know for sure.
dschulz is offline  
post #58615 of 58882 Old 05-28-2020, 05:41 PM
Senior Member
 
tanwn1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 297
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
I tried the Jurassic Park DTS laserdisc track with and without upmixers (I took the measurements without them). But I also compared some scenes with Neural X decoding, which I prefer most of the time over DSU (once in awhile, usually for 2-channel soundtracks I like DSU better as sometimes the dialog ends up "low" in my "dialog lift" system with Neural X when it's using 2.0 channel soundtracks and DSU puts them right in the middle of my screen. But typically, Neural X does a much better job of putting overhead type sounds (e.g. thunder, airplanes, helicopters, etc.) overhead whereas DSU often has them at or closer to ear level.



In the case of Jurassic Park, right at the beginning when the Raptor is trying to get out of that cage, there's a sound in the DTS:X version that passes right behind my MLP chair (halfway point of the room). That's something the 5.1 soundtrack literally cannot do if expanded into the rear speakers (7.1 bed level with any mode that uses the rear surrounds) as they would move in the back of the room instead of the side/middle of the room. But the DTS:X soundtrack has no such limitations. It can move things across the room at any point from front to back clearly. In the DTS laserdisc version, the sound does indeed move across the back of the room instead unless I limit it to 5.1 bed-level speakers only, but then I miss the rear surround effects that the DTS:X version ALSO has. So the DTS:X version still wins for "immersion" even compared to the Neural X upmixer, which does a pretty good job of expanding it, but it's a bit more nebulous and some sounds are flat out in different places. Sometimes, Neural X comes very close with TrueHD 7.1 bed level soundtracks to the Atmos rendering, but other times some sounds end up in different places (not always in Atmos' favor with some soundtracks, oddly enough, but this is subjective, of course).



I was more interested, however in seeing if the DTS:X version of Jurassic Park nullified the bass levels like so many other soundtracks do. But seeing as my subwoofer only plays down to 20Hz, I can't be certain that it still doesn't cut subsonic frequencies compared to the laserdisc version (I leave that for that bass thread where people have the tools to test it, etc.), but in terms of average levels, at least, the bass is just as loud in the DTS:X version as the laserdisc version. I've had people vehemently tell me that DTS was too darn loud in the bass department in the 1990s (Dolby Digital versions were usually 3-5 dB lower for the same title), but the fact is that soundtracks like Blade Runner 2049 in Dolby Atmos (Auro-3D version as well; I have both here) have WAY more bass than Jurassic Park (it's not even funny; Blade Runner 2049 made me jump out of my chair the first time I played it accidentally at reference level!) right at the very beginning (arguably the loudest bass notes in the entire movie). So if Jurassic Park had too much bass, WTF do titles like Blade Runner 2049 have? MEGA BASS? Whatever it is, I like it!



Put on Labyrinth in Dolby Atmos and it's wimpy wimpy wimpy with almost no effects the original 2-channel (Pro Logic) version didn't have (a few key action moments have something added). My feeling is if you're going to redo a track in Dolby Atmos, go FULL TILT or go home. They can always include the original 2-channel or 5.1 channel version as well (some do like The Matrix, although that's the original Dolby Digital home track, not the Cinema DTS one which is up to 9dB louder for sound effects compared to dialog).









5.1 versus up to 34.1 including up to 10 overhead speakers.
When they say too much bass usually it means the bass 40hz and above overwhelms and muddies the midrange and affects overall clarity. Some movie track has MEGA bass but it is well balanced and the bass doesnt affect the overall clarity and they usually contain below 30hz.


Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
tanwn1 is offline  
post #58616 of 58882 Old 05-28-2020, 06:36 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ricoflashback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Colorful Colorado
Posts: 3,759
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2082 Post(s)
Liked: 1575
***RE: “5.1 versus up to 34.1 including up to 10 overhead speakers.” Let me re-phrase the question. I’ve enjoyed many multi-channel SACD’s. I’m not sure how well music in Dolby Atmos will work. That many speakers? How is it mixed? To me, it’s different than a movie soundtrack that has a multitude of sounds. How does a trio group sound with overhead speakers? I’m not against it. I’m just not sure of the practicality in mixing music in Dolby Atmos versus SACD or any other existing format.

Home Theater Setup
SONY 75X900F & 49X900E, Denon X6700H & Emotiva XPA-3, OPPO 103 - 9.1.4 Setup - Speakers - Studio 60's-V.5 (FL/FR), CC-690-V.5 (C), ADP 590-V.5 (SS), MilleniaOne 2.0 (BS) - Velodyne 810 Sub, Cornered Audio (FH/RH), Definitive Technology (Front Wides). Stereo 2 Channel Only - Dali Evidence 470 & MartinLogan Forte Amplifier/Streamer with ARC.
Ricoflashback is offline  
post #58617 of 58882 Old 05-28-2020, 07:11 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
MagnumX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 2,692
Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1606 Post(s)
Liked: 1080
Quote:
Originally Posted by tanwn1 View Post
When they say too much bass usually it means the bass 40hz and above overwhelms and muddies the midrange and affects overall clarity. Some movie track has MEGA bass but it is well balanced and the bass doesnt affect the overall clarity and they usually contain below 30hz.
The complaint, as I remember it back in the day was that the DTS soundtrack has LFE levels somewhere between 3-5dB higher than the Dolby Digital version and that seemed to be common among DVDs that had both versions available, not any specific range of frequencies (I mean Jurassic Park won some major sound awards so obviously someone liked it). The real question, however is how the DTS versions stacked up against the original Cinema DTS version. Unfortunately, I don't have access to that title, so I cannot say with any certainty. However, given the DTS:X version has quite similar levels of LFE content to the laserdisc DTS version, I'd say the odds are good that it's considered the correct levels. The early DTS DVD version had lower levels and people complained and it was re-released at the laserdisc level so I assume the people that complained preferred the DTS laserdisc LFE levels. It was certainly one of the more impressive 5.1 soundtracks I had in the 1990s for certain. The T-Rex scenes with the early bass kick with the glass of water that built and followed by the attack were amazing sounding. Other soundtracks I had like Goldeneye were very nice, but not pee in your pants time by any means.


Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post
***RE: “5.1 versus up to 34.1 including up to 10 overhead speakers.” Let me re-phrase the question. I’ve enjoyed many multi-channel SACD’s. I’m not sure how well music in Dolby Atmos will work. That many speakers? How is it mixed? To me, it’s different than a movie soundtrack that has a multitude of sounds. How does a trio group sound with overhead speakers? I’m not against it. I’m just not sure of the practicality in mixing music in Dolby Atmos versus SACD or any other existing format.
Atmos is a tool. They can do anything they want in terms of mixing. There's definitely a question of whether music is suited to the surround format (i.e. guitars flying overhead into the back of the room is kind of absurd, for example), but given the Auro-3D albums I've purchased thus far plus two demo samplers, I'd say the capability is definitely substantial. Mando Daio's Aelita is great in Auro-3D (Black Saturday is on the Auro-3D Vol.2 demo disc) as are the numerous recordings that map out to the various channels (dual quad miking) that make it sound like you're in the actual concert halls, etc. Now what Atmos will do with music remains to be seen to some extent, but the sky is the limit. It could be awesome or it could be horrible. It depends on what they do with it.
Panson likes this.

Click THEATER (Updated: Nov-12-2019) for pics: Epson 3100 3D Projector, DaLite 92" screen, 11.1.6 (Marantz SR7012 + Yamaha HTR-5960 + Onkyo ESPro) - Dialog Lift - PSB T45/B15/S50/X1T/CS500 Speakers & Def Tech PF-1500 15" sub; 2nd Room (Updated Apr-22-2019): 48" Plasma TV, Carver AL-III, Carver C-5 Pre-Amp, Technics SH-AC500D, Dual Carver TFM-35x Amps (Active Bi-Amp), Klipsch Surrounds ; Sources: PS4, LG UP875 UHD, Nvidia Shield (KODI), ATV4K, Zidoo X9S, LD, GameCube : Props (Updated 6-22-20)
MagnumX is offline  
post #58618 of 58882 Old 05-28-2020, 09:46 PM
Senior Member
 
tanwn1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 297
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 50
The jurassic park LD dts i stil have it, the LFE(not crossover by the way only .1 channel) has constant bass recorded whereby the bluray at times do not have any bass in the LFE channel. If u do bass management n send the LCR bass from say 60 to 80hz, the dts LD wil stil have overall more bass which i would say abit bloated, whereby the bluray dtsma or dtsx has more tight n accurate nuance but stil powerfulbass which i prefer. But for purist, the original LD dts back surround sounded untouched n just true to the original track. The bluray dtsma u know the surround has been manipulated n effects added. Those who like star wars die hard wil strive for the original.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
tanwn1 is offline  
post #58619 of 58882 Old 05-29-2020, 01:08 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dfa973's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: EU
Posts: 1,950
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1348 Post(s)
Liked: 1394
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Tidal is supporting Dolby Atmos for a broad set of devices.
Can you see the type of codec that Tidal uses to deliver Dolby Atmos Music on your receiver?
dfa973 is online now  
post #58620 of 58882 Old 05-29-2020, 03:35 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 435
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 172 Post(s)
Liked: 99
Struggling here, best I can have is DD+ 2channels 48Khz. Sometimes I have (depending on different songs) PCM 2 channels 88.2Khz. Nothing like Atmos. Sr7011 and yes, I have the full Tidal subscription (20 € / month).
Moreover, my 4K Fire stick every shown song with Atmos label is telling me "playing in stereo, your device is not capable of Dolby Atmos playback", which is nothing different than before these unsatisfactory supposedly good news! Sigh! I am in Europe, Italy, btw (geo something related restrictions or limitations atm?).
Somebody on this side of the pond, who could check?
Regards
Alessandro

Marantz Sr7011, Galactron Mk10b, Pioneer VsxLx50, Behringer NU3000dsp. Klipsch Cornwall, Wharfedale 9.1, Klipsch CP-6, 4xJblCS1214 in 2 double boxes, V.B.S.S. with Dayton PA460-8. Sony UbpX800, Lg Up970, Nvidia Shield ATV 2015, FireTv 4K, 2 Onkyio Dolby Surround ES600 pro, 2 Anleon MX200 Minimixer, Hisense 55M5500. 110 inches rolling screen, excelvan cl720d.
vn800art is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off