Originally Posted by Josh Z
My point is that the content isn't using those speakers. The mixers are placing sound objects to stand near specific speakers without moving through others. I don't know why they would do this, but it happens all the time.
That would seem to contradict what FilmMixer has said to me quite recently. Supposedly, only
Disney limits Atmos. Everything else that properly uses Atmos is fully automatic to render properly, isn't it? I can't tell you what a "true" Top Middle renderer does on a given soundtrack, but with my "bastard hybrid" system, I can
tell you that most
Atmos tracks that do anything overhead whatsoever make full use
of Top Middle in terms of phantom imaging or my Top Middle speakers (which extract the content using Dolby Pro Logic center channel extraction) wouldn't be so active all the time and they are probably as active or more active than the front/rear speakers in terms of things imaging in that vicinity. I doubt they are avoiding moving objects through Top Middle or I wouldn't get sounds there so much. I can't be certain their renderer behaves correctly, though as I have no true renderer to test here. Suffice to say, I'm glad I didn't buy a larger speaker count AVR/AVP if they work so poorly. I'll wait until I get a good review and a unit that has full use of DTS:X Pro that doesn't cost the price of a brand new car. My "Scatmos" system will more than suffice until then and the speakers are already placed and ready if that day comes.
I seriously doubt Disney is actually "half" of all Atmos soundtracks either. They're one (admittedly large these days) studio and much of their content is animated (cartoons). They also only
make Atmos available on 4K content, which means very little of their content is even available in Atmos compared to other studios that put a lot more in Atmos, 2K or 4K and they also came late to the Atmos game compared to most other studios. Warner Brothers, Paramount, Sony, Lionsgate, all prior 20th Century Fox (and so far continuing even with their ownership) and even Universal have content in Dolby Atmos (some do both DTS:X and
Atmos at times like Sony and Universal). Oddly, their Disney+ streaming soundtracks do seem to use objects, at least occasionally according to SDrucker on here. Maybe they just don't like using them on actual discs? Since the one man that claims to know their reasoning won't tell us, I guess we can keep speculating until someone else does decide to tell us.
Case in point, watch the big helicopter climax of Mission: Impossible - Fallout with a x.x.6 config and unplug all of your ground speakers so you only hear the heights. The sounds of the helicopter rotors come almost exclusively from the Top Front and Top Rear with next to nothing from Top Middle. If you place your ear directly next to a TM speaker, you might hear the occasional sound effect very quickly zip through for a brief second, which proves that sound objects can go through the TM location, but the speakers then go silent again afterwards. Those brief effects are also typically not discernible from the seating position. It basically sounds like the helicopters are jumping from the front of the room to the back without touching the middle.
How can something directly overhead not be discernible from the seating position if you're sitting underneath or just in front of or behind that location? In a large room (where Top Middle is needed), that area will be almost silent without Top Middle speakers (I know this from my own setup). If you can hear sounds directly overhead, they're either coming from Top Middle or you don't actually need Top Middle to begin with, at least for the MLP (it'd still be useful for anchoring sounds off-axis).
Most Atmos tracks don't use Front Wide speakers either. Home Atmos is effectively optimized for a 7.1.4 configuration, and attempts to expand beyond that become extremely frustrating.
They all use them here, even Auro-3D. Perhaps "real" rendering isn't all it's cracked up to be, after all. I'm glad I didn't wait and/or spend the extra money, apparently. I'm very happy with my audio system. I'm not happy with all
soundtracks (many don't use much overhead at all or even the side and rear surrounds that much; they're 3-channel 90% of the time), but that's the guys mixing it that are responsible. In fact, I'd say one way or another, they're responsible for ALL of it (Disney included). Choose to do something half-arsed and you get half-arsed results every single time.
Originally Posted by dfa973
Denon UK has responded to me about the HEOS-Tidal-Atmos integration:
Then I asked them if there are at least plans for Atmos Music via HEOS-Tidal integration?
Marantz Europe has responded:
Me: maybe in the future????
Some of us know that it works just fine on AppleTV 4K units regardless of what D&M does. Anyone that bought D&M should have known they do not update new features on old products unless it was promised ahead of time. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for DTS:X Pro to appear for the Denon 8500 either given they didn't promise it ahead of time. Fortunately, if you own an appropriate 3rd party device (Apple, Amazon, etc.) Tidal works in Atmos already. If you have a 4K TV or Projector, FireStick 4K units aren't very expensive, especially when on sale. I bought the latter on sale just to get its remote (on sale it was cheaper than the remote all by itself) to use with my NVidia Shield (works great as a bluetooth remote although the microphone sometimes glitches). The rechargeable remote it came with needs charged far too often by comparison.