The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 1957 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #58681 of 58876 Old 06-02-2020, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by tommarra View Post
Bladerunner 2049 and MMFR for me are the absolute best movie content. Dolby Amaze trailer also makes my visitors say wow’
I'm guessing you mean Mad Max: Fury Road...?
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post #58682 of 58876 Old 06-02-2020, 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
I'm guessing you mean Mad Max: Fury Road...?
Bingo! You guessed right!

(when first encountered I also wondered what the f*** MMFR means...)
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post #58683 of 58876 Old 06-02-2020, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
I'm guessing you mean Mad Max: Fury Road...?

:-) yeah does read looks a four letter word :-)


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post #58684 of 58876 Old 06-02-2020, 06:38 AM
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What specific scenes in MMFR and Spiderverse are the best "show off" scenes?

Thanks
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post #58685 of 58876 Old 06-02-2020, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post
D+M have been nothing short of fantastic over the last 4yrs for me, updated fully functional stable pre/pro's plus a few extra's I never asked for. Concerning DTS Pro it was discussed a few months back it's coming to the 8805

Let's just say I'll believe it when I see it.
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post #58686 of 58876 Old 06-02-2020, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by rec head View Post
What specific scenes in MMFR and Spiderverse are the best "show off" scenes?

Thanks
The very first scene in MMFR, when the Voices in MAx's head transition to a car driving over the hill from behind to fill the frame.

BTW another GREAT movie to showcase Atmos is Gravity and more recently (although it might be DTSX), 1917, especially the scene in the village on fire)
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post #58687 of 58876 Old 06-02-2020, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by tommarra View Post
If you can go 6 overhead by all means go for it. Even if Disney messes it up, for streaming content using DSU the TMs are nicely used
DSU only has two channels for height activity, one on the left and one on the right, which are spread across however many speakers you have on each side. Regardless of whether you put two speakers or four speakers above you, DSU works the same.

If you were able to install two Top Front speakers and two Top Rear speakers at Dolby's recommended best angles, they should image above the seating position and sound indistinguishable from six speakers with DSU. There will never be any front-to-back panning movements with DSU.

Of course, real world concerns often prevent people from installing speakers at the best recommended angles. If speakers are at Front Height and Rear Height locations further away from each other, sounds may not image well above the seating position. That's where adding Top Middle speakers between them can be useful.

Speaking as someone who actually has and uses extra speakers on my ceiling due to room limitations, I would never advise other people to do the same as a blanket recommendation without knowing the specifics of their room conditions. Just because you can squeeze extra speakers up there doesn't mean you need to. For most users, four height speakers will provide all the coverage they need. As we've been discussing, adding an extra pair of heights becomes very problematic with Atmos soundtracks that will not use those speakers. (And contrary to what MagnumX seems to believe, there are a great many Atmos tracks that will not use Top Middle speakers in an x.x.6 configuration.)
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post #58688 of 58876 Old 06-02-2020, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
There is also NO fundamental difference between phantom imaging and hard imaging in terms of locations or how they sound within the limits of angles between speaker pairs that produce a solid phantom image for the MLP.
You're talking theory. We're talking actual application. What may happen with Scatmos extraction has no relevance to the discussion about how Atmos tracks behave when natively decoded for x.x.6 channels.
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post #58689 of 58876 Old 06-02-2020, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Spider-Man-into the spiderverse is my go to showing off atmos and also very vibrant HDR as well. One of the best demo discs out there
Into the Spider-Verse is a very aggressive track for height activity, but it's also one of those Atmos mixes that does not use Front Wide speakers at all. FW users will find those speakers completely silent. This flies in the face of MagnumX's insistence that Atmos objects cannot "skip over" certain speakers. They can and they do, very frequently.
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post #58690 of 58876 Old 06-02-2020, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
Bingo! You guessed right!

(when first encountered I also wondered what the f*** MMFR means...)
Yes, so please stop doing it! You wondered, but yet then continued the pain for someone else, and so the confusion goes on. Two wrongs don't make a right... there are enough real technical abbreviations, without people using abbreviations made up out of movie titles . To me, it doesn't matter if "most people" know what movie it's talking about, it's confusing for any casual reader and can't be looked up in the same way that real acronyms like DTS and DD can.

Just my little plea.
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post #58691 of 58876 Old 06-02-2020, 07:49 AM
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One of the first times I can say "I can hear really what I read on the forums, from someone who has settings similar to mine" @MagnumX ! Regarding center spread and DSU taking it off the choice in the last generation AVRs.
And I believe I made some substantial other changes lately:
1) Toed out and afterwards a little bit inward my fronts
2) Finally made an Audyssey App new cal with only 10/15 cm. distance from Mlp in each 7 directions. As of now, been always doing some 20/25 cm. each, always had some strange level mismatch, left/right channels. Now with 10/15 these are really minor and I feel the volumes/spl are more consistent and ... armony and nirvana!
On a side note! Tidal Atmos is HERE, too (Fire4K)!
Flattish Seiji Ozawa Beethoven 9th ever heard! No way this can come out as clear, enveloping as from Auro3D (in a some different mixer edition!,, or even only from a two channel one).
Pop music ( R.E.M. !), as has been said, really interesting and colourful.
Happy camper here, and Republic Day also!
Regards
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Edit: Daniel Barenboim's 9th sounds better! Best in Auro 3D
Edit2 Vivaldi 4 Seasons: third dimension comes out only in Auro3D - my FW are more active - in front of me I have the whole orchestra playing.
So, I understand surely the art of mixing 3D sound is hard to be found .
Would like to hear more experienced user's opinions!
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post #58692 of 58876 Old 06-02-2020, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
You're talking theory. We're talking actual application. What may happen with Scatmos extraction has no relevance to the discussion about how Atmos tracks behave when natively decoded for x.x.6 channels.
No relevance? Theory? Do you think I only theoretically implemented it? Do you think I cannot turn off the extra speakers and even limit my system to half-room 7.1.4 or 5.1.4 when I've previously stated I can to compare how it pans? I can and it scales down. What exactly do you think is different with native decoding in the middle of the room? Does it zig-zag right in the dead center whereas it goes in a straight line without Top Middle such that using steered logic gets an entirely different result? I've never heard a discrete center do any such thing compared to Pro Logic. The system is designed to scale up/down and present it as close as it can with or without the hard speaker in that location. In other words, an Atmos presentation should sound similar in 7.1.4 and 9.1.6 from the MLP. The most improvements would be for off-axis listeners in a properly set up system or when the room is too large to phantom pan properly across the distance. There are no "new" behaviors or rendering locations (i.e. It doesn't render under your feet or directly behind your head).

Steered logic simply cuts out the middle part of the smaller room phantom imaging and puts in a hard speaker. If there's a loss in resolution, it's still not a fundamental change. It's replacing phantom imaging with hard sources. If you are getting sounds directly overhead in a smaller room with 7.1.4, you should certainly be getting sounds directly overhead with 7.1.6. The imaging should be more concrete, not less. If it's not using those speakers (and I've not suggested that they are working correctly; it's entirely possible more titles than just Disney have issues) then there's something fundamentally wrong with the titles in question. They are somehow bypassing normal object behavior, similar in effect to what Disney is doing. If anything, those are reasons to use a "kludge" method instead as apparently the "kludge" works better than the natively decoded channels.

I've suggested some titles and scenes with obvious overhead panning that should use Top Middle to test on a natively rendered system. But instead of responding to that, some would rather attack my system as if I'm hearing something totally different with the Dolby Atmos demos and movies than everyone else. I believe that's called making a straw man argument. Don't deal with the actual issues and arguments presented. Instead, come up with a new reason to not deal with it (i.e. Rather than deal with the titles in question and try to get to the bottom of it, let's attack my system instead).

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post #58693 of 58876 Old 06-02-2020, 08:27 AM
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The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommarra View Post
Bladerunner 2049 and MMFR for me are the absolute best movie content. Dolby Amaze trailer also makes my visitors say wow’


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Just watched MMFR(mad max fury road) again yesterday. It’s one of my favorites as well.
Love the amaze demo too. That rolling thunder after the Clap just goes through everything in my house!
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post #58694 of 58876 Old 06-02-2020, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
No relevance? Theory? Do you think I only theoretically implemented it? Do you think I cannot turn off the extra speakers and even limit my system to half-room 7.1.4 or 5.1.4 when I've previously stated I can to compare how it pans? I can and it scales down.
Assuming it's up to date, the equipment list in your signature shows that you do not have an AVR capable of x.x.6 decoding. You have not tried and do not know how these tracks decode natively.

Again, we are not talking about Scatmos here. I am not criticizing your decision to implement Scatmos. It simply is not relevant to the discussion we're having.

Quote:
What exactly do you think is different with native decoding in the middle of the room? Does it zig-zag right in the dead center whereas it goes in a straight line without Top Middle such that using steered logic gets an entirely different result?
As I already explained, watching M:I Fallout with x.x.6 decoding, the Top Middle speakers are silent 99% of the time. When helicopters fly from the front to the back of the room, they skip right over the Top Middles most of the time.

Scatmos may actually be superior for this movie with the way it pulls common information to the center speaker, but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about the way the track behaves when natively decoded to x.x.6. In that sound mix and many others, the Top Middle speakers are not used. Similarly, many Atmos sound mixes do not use Front Wide speakers even when sounds should logically pass through them.

I have used Scatmos in my own home theater. I know what it does. I currently use extra AVRs to extract Front Wides, because that method uses those speakers much more consistently than my Denon X8500's native decoding for FW.

Scatmos behaves differently than Atmos native decoding. Sometimes Scatmos is better (like these Atmos tracks that skip over certain speakers) and sometimes it's worse (like the way all height activity with DSU upmixing gets collapsed to the TM speakers).

Maybe you don't think that's supposed to happen, but as someone who has actually tried it both ways, I'm telling you it does. Your continued insistence otherwise is not constructive to this conversation.
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post #58695 of 58876 Old 06-02-2020, 08:53 AM
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Dolby needs to give some training to audio mixers and/or enforce tighter restrictions in their software. There is no consistency at all in the way Atmos is encoded. It really makes the format look bad. But I guess the number of people with systems beyond 7.1.4 is so tiny that they don't care.
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post #58696 of 58876 Old 06-02-2020, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rec head View Post
What specific scenes in MMFR and Spiderverse are the best "show off" scenes?

Thanks
Into the spiderverse-literally the whole movie-it is probably the best combined Dolby atmos and hdr demo disk out there
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post #58697 of 58876 Old 06-03-2020, 01:27 AM
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Well I opted to kill 1/2 of my free 90 day Tidal sub from T Mobile tonight and upgraded to HiFi then spent a few hours listening to the various Atmos samplers. I guess I'd say I have mixed feelings. For some reason the tops are way too hot, my trusty RS SPL meter died when I accidentally put the battery in upside down so outside of the Audyessey settings being rerun I opted for a SPL meter app on my phone, works quite well. Anyway checked the levels of all 13 speakers and tweaked a couple slightly.

There is quite a mix of stuff in the samplers, from what I can tell all remixes, but some are much better than others. Came away really disliking all the Pop and modern stuff, all sounds the same to me, Demi, Arianna etc are all interchangeable. All the effects seemed to lift the listening stage too high at least on my system if that makes any sense. For me the best tracks were the Jazz selections, not over done and decent spacial feeling. Another that struck me as sounding good- believe it or not - was Bing Crosby with the London Symphony Orchestra doing Christmas music. Honestly there is not enough there for me to keep a Tidal sub at $20/mo but for free it's worth sampling. I would really like to hear some newly recorded stuff mixed specifically for Atmos, At this point I'm divided as to it's worth long term sorry to say.
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post #58698 of 58876 Old 06-03-2020, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
Assuming it's up to date, the equipment list in your signature shows that you do not have an AVR capable of x.x.6 decoding. You have not tried and do not know how these tracks decode natively.
You're right. I don't know with certainty what a given title does natively decoded, but that's my whole point and the reason I asked for more feedback given other titles that do have direct overhead sounds of which I'm aware.. It should do basically the same thing (with some extra resolution and a hard source) what 7.1.4 does with a phantom image in-between. If it's NOT doing that (e.g. Disney soundtracks), then there's something wrong, either with the mix, encoding settings or some other factor.

With Disney, we know why sounds don't come out of Top Middle (it uses fixed audio objects with pre-rendered panning that skips over the extra speakers entirely). But you claim other non-Disney soundtracks (like Mission Impossible Fallout, which is by Paramount) aren't using that location (much) with 6 overheads. The question is why that is. Is it simply the mix doesn't use those locations or is there some other reason why the speaker isn't being engaged (pre-set to not use certain speakers somehow?). It's also why I listed several other titles where I do get sounds from there. I was hoping to get some comparisons as to where those sounds render in a native system to see if there's any notable difference. But I got derisive, yet unproven comments about my system instead.


Mission Impossible: Fallout Atmos Observations:

So I went back and watched the entire helicopter sequence of Mission Impossible Fallout with only extracted Top Middle to see how it compared to what you described from the native rendering and it was a bit surprising to hear how little Top Middle was used overall in that sequence. In other words, I heard no real evidence that the movie did anything hear but what you described, although exact moments might need clarification.

There was a bit of rotor action somewhere near 1:53:20 for a few seconds directly overhead (right where Cruise falls down to the payload) with a direct front-to-back overhead fly-by right after that which definitely passed through my top middle speakers as it panned across the entire ceiling (that brief moment was actually demo worthy, IMO as it was quite a loud/strong image overhead and panned quite well). Beyond that, there was only a few very brief snippet bits here and there that appeared briefly in Top Middle. Most of the rotor action overall was in the front height speakers.

In other words, I seemed to be hearing mostly if not completely exactly what you described for the native rendered version and thus I kind of doubt Fallout isn't using Top Middle properly. They simply put most of the rotor sounds in the front height (or tops) region closest to the screen where the helicopter is most of the time (mostly closeups and distant shots; only a few flybys towards the screen that would imply a front to back type pan or similar). But when a flyover did occur near 1:53:40 give or take 10 seconds or so, it most certainly flew directly overhead front to back here discretely with 7.1.6 or phantom imaging using 7.1.4. It would be strange indeed if the native rendering "hopped" from front to rear without using the middle area in-between. Or did it pan using front/rear heights/tops instead of engaging Top Middle as it passed through that region? That would be akin to Disney rendering it front/back without using the Top Middle speakers at all and defeat the point of them, IMO.

This is why I mentioned other titles where I remember sounds being directly or partially directly overhead as those would be more movies to compare to see if there is indeed a difference. I can think of no reason that 'steered logic' (like Pro Logic I and II) would behave fundamentally differently from direct rendered because there are no new locations for sounds to come from short of an option like "snap to" that overrides the normal rendering. 50% is still 50% and 25% is still 25%. Far from irrelevant, in Science the only way to know if something is different is to have a control group to compare it to! 7.1.6 "Scatmos" is just hard sourced 7.1.4. It gives a fixed location for the 50% point. Otherwise, it renders the same if you're sitting at the halfway point. It's clear titles like Disney are doing something different as the native rendered version ignores Top Middle entirely. But it's not clear with other studios and hence the need for more comparisons and information if one is to claim these studios don't use Top Middle much. Is it just the mixes or something else yet to be identified? Without any frame of reference (7.1.4 phantom or 7.1.6 extracted), how would you even know? You can't compare something without at least two things.

After testing it, I'm betting Mission Impossible: Fallout used Top Middle correctly, however briefly (probably less than one second in that flyover, but without it, it would "hop" here) on the native system too. In other words, I think the lack of Top Middle use in the helicopter scene overall is artistic choice in regards to what is seen on-screen, not a failure of the speakers to function.

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Maybe you don't think that's supposed to happen, but as someone who has actually tried it both ways, I'm telling you it does. Your continued insistence otherwise is not constructive to this conversation.
To which conversation are you referring? One person talking to themself in an echo chamber or two people posting derisive comments about my system isn't a conversation. It's a lecture. I'm sure the Church that told Galileo he was a heretic for suggesting the Earth wasn't the center of the Solar System (and the Universe for that matter) thought they were correct too, but without proof, it's just so much talking. Telling me my system doesn't image correctly requires proof, not conjecture. I have yet to see any evidence that it images incorrectly. That's a bit like saying 7.1.4 images incorrectly since it's derived from it. If anything, it sounds like sometimes 7.1.6 images incorrectly (with some titles) due to reasons that are only partially explained (Disney print-through). I was attempting to determine if any more titles are doing something strange. But MI: Fallout appears to be the mix itself, not some technical shortcoming.

Now that does not mean at least some other soundtracks aren't rendering differently and/or not using extra speakers. Dolby's "Snap To" feature, for example is a rendering based option that vastly changes the native rendering behavior (rendering effects directly at the nearest available speaker, rather than phantom imaging between points). That can easily put a sound at front wides that would be at the mains or side surrounds on systems without front wides, but that is only true when that option is used (It doesn't seem to be used much in the real world from what I've read). Are there other rendering settings with similar changes to rendering locations? Possibly. I haven't heard of them, but that doesn't mean they don't necessarily exist. I don't own the software. But normal panning is a straight forward, predictable business. Atmos automatically pans more speakers with object movement, giving it more precision, but it doesn't change the basic course of the object between 4 speakers overhead, 6, 8 or 10 for that matter. The course can be made more precise, but an object doesn't suddenly zig-zag where it went in a straight line or curve before. The curve may be more accurate, but it's still a curve with 4 channels overhead.

P.S.

As for the previously mentioned behavior that systems with x.x.6 overheads only use Top Middle when there's only 2-channels overhead being used (implying 4 overheads with top front/rear phantom imaging would be preferable), well that's the difference between the accurate location (top middle) and the precedence effect (images closer to the nearest speaker if you don't sit in the center). That's a subjective evaluation. In terms of accuracy, the 6-overhead system wins every time. Scatmos does the same thing normally. It puts anything imaging with correlated information in Top Middle also.

However, with "Scatmos" you can actually have it use all 6 speakers (to a greater or lesser degree) if desired by modifying the distance setting for the speaker pairs. They need to be set the same to get a truly discrete output, but varying them a bit adds more "leakage" back to the front/rear heights/tops and the more you add the closer you get to an array instead of a near discrete output. It's actually quite flexible in that regard to taste as that will give you the precedence effect back if you prefer it. Flexible doesn't mean wrong.
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post #58699 of 58876 Old 06-03-2020, 08:23 PM
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Some interesting news about to drop tomorrow relevant to these high channel count discussions

Unfortunately, it won't be Disney announcing that they will stop locking their Atmos tracks... but it will be fun to discuss tomorrow especially in the context of the current 7.1.6 discussion.

/TEASER

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post #58700 of 58876 Old 06-03-2020, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by isabuschina View Post
You don't need HDMI 2.1 or even 2.0 to get Atmos output. I use MPC BE with bitstreaming several old computers and can output Atmos without and issue over HDMI and even display port (the display port connector is marked dp++)

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
Thank you isbuschina. I guess I have to read up on bitstreaming. Glad to know it is possible!
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post #58701 of 58876 Old 06-03-2020, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Some interesting news about to drop tomorrow relevant to these high channel count discussions [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

Unfortunately, it won't be Disney announcing that they will stop locking their Atmos tracks... but it will be fun to discuss tomorrow especially in the context of the current 7.1.6 discussion.

/TEASER [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
Ooh, you're a naughty one, aren't you? 😄
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Listen up, studios! Dolby Atmos Liteâ„¢ print-outs must stop!!
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post #58702 of 58876 Old 06-04-2020, 03:04 AM
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Here's MINE!
Dolby Atmos in TIDAL working on my Shield 2015!
There is a note on info page/audio in Setup General of my Marantz : Offset info which I found is always changing (between -13 and -15dB), on a per track base! Never found. On the FireTv Stick 4K this info is not present.
Quality perceived is identical.

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post #58703 of 58876 Old 06-04-2020, 03:25 AM
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Well I opted to kill 1/2 of my free 90 day Tidal sub from T Mobile tonight and upgraded to HiFi then spent a few hours listening to the various Atmos samplers. I guess I'd say I have mixed feelings. For some reason the tops are way too hot, my trusty RS SPL meter died when I accidentally put the battery in upside down so outside of the Audyessey settings being rerun I opted for a SPL meter app on my phone, works quite well. Anyway checked the levels of all 13 speakers and tweaked a couple slightly.

There is quite a mix of stuff in the samplers, from what I can tell all remixes, but some are much better than others. Came away really disliking all the Pop and modern stuff, all sounds the same to me, Demi, Arianna etc are all interchangeable. All the effects seemed to lift the listening stage too high at least on my system if that makes any sense. For me the best tracks were the Jazz selections, not over done and decent spacial feeling. Another that struck me as sounding good- believe it or not - was Bing Crosby with the London Symphony Orchestra doing Christmas music. Honestly there is not enough there for me to keep a Tidal sub at $20/mo but for free it's worth sampling. I would really like to hear some newly recorded stuff mixed specifically for Atmos, At this point I'm divided as to it's worth long term sorry to say.

As much I was looking forward to see this finally released, I must say that I share the sentiment.

It really is a mixed bag. Some passages, sometimes entire tracks, sound really awesome. However, there are quite a few things that just sound off. For example often individual instruments seem to be put in a specific laser sharp spot and are playing there in isolation. Beyond that, in many cases, there is a complete lack of "ambiance" that you usually have in atmos movie soundtracks or have as "uncorrelated" sounds that DSU puts on the surround channels. The result often draws much more attention to individual things than letting you immerse in the music (as you would hope for in an "immersive" format).

I am not entirely sure what is causing this. It may take some time for the mixers to gain experience and develop best practices that actually work. Or perhaps we are too much accustomed to the sound of a stereo stage that we need to get used to a different sound. It may as well be the case that atmos music is way more unforgiving to imperfections in our setup that are not that apparent when watching movies.
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post #58704 of 58876 Old 06-04-2020, 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
Into the Spider-Verse is a very aggressive track for height activity, but it's also one of those Atmos mixes that does not use Front Wide speakers at all. FW users will find those speakers completely silent. This flies in the face of MagnumX's insistence that Atmos objects cannot "skip over" certain speakers. They can and they do, very frequently.
This puzzles me. Unless it has been 'printed', which I understand to mean all the Atmos information is simply hard coded to each speaker channel and no actual objects left to render (correct me if I'm wrong), how can Atmos audio 'skip' some speakers?

I'm not doubting it happens, just wondering how it can happen. The Atmos renderer surely just sends any audio object to the appropriate and available speakers. Assuming the AVR has 6 heights connected AND knows and understands that, how could it skip the Top Middles? Can Atmos include some control data that can force it to skip some speaker positions?

Or does this mean that at least some of the Atmos audio has indeed been 'printed'?
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post #58705 of 58876 Old 06-04-2020, 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
... Disney ... also only make Atmos available on 4K content ...
Has this been firmly established? I have never seen Atmos from Disney+, but was that just due to the coronavirus restrictions, or will I never see it without 4K (like Amazon)?
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post #58706 of 58876 Old 06-04-2020, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Some interesting news about to drop tomorrow relevant to these high channel count discussions

Unfortunately, it won't be Disney announcing that they will stop locking their Atmos tracks... but it will be fun to discuss tomorrow especially in the context of the current 7.1.6 discussion.

/TEASER
I thought it might be in relation to the new 8K Denon models AVR-X2700H, AVR-X3700H, AVR-4700H and the AVR-X6700H due for release later this year but unfortunately the channel count is the same
although some will have DTS:X Pro
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post #58707 of 58876 Old 06-04-2020, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by UKenGB View Post
This puzzles me. Unless it has been 'printed', which I understand to mean all the Atmos information is simply hard coded to each speaker channel and no actual objects left to render (correct me if I'm wrong), how can Atmos audio 'skip' some speakers?

I'm not doubting it happens, just wondering how it can happen. The Atmos renderer surely just sends any audio object to the appropriate and available speakers. Assuming the AVR has 6 heights connected AND knows and understands that, how could it skip the Top Middles? Can Atmos include some control data that can force it to skip some speaker positions?

Or does this mean that at least some of the Atmos audio has indeed been 'printed'?
I do not know the reason why it happens, but it's quite common.

Regarding M:I Fallout, that Atmos track does not seem to be x.x.4 print-out because, as I said earlier, some very brief incidental sounds can be heard quickly moving through the TM speakers if you put your ear up to one. Yet they're silent 90-95% of the time.

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post #58708 of 58876 Old 06-04-2020, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Some interesting news about to drop tomorrow relevant to these high channel count discussions

Unfortunately, it won't be Disney announcing that they will stop locking their Atmos tracks... but it will be fun to discuss tomorrow especially in the context of the current 7.1.6 discussion.

/TEASER
So what exactly were you referring to?

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post #58709 of 58876 Old 06-04-2020, 11:56 AM
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Ha! Now I can speak about it

I was referring to the announcement of the new D+M models with DTS:X Pro FINALLY coming to the non-Trinnov price point.

- new model Denon X6700H will have 11 amps, 13ch processing, and DTS:X Pro supporting 9.1.4 and 7.1.6 layouts (including Atmos 7.1.6 with 3 pairs of overheads or Auro 7.1.6 with CH + TS)
- official word that DTS:X Pro is coming to the AVR-X8500H receiver and AV8805 processor

Although not explicitly Atmos, we end up discussing all immersive audio in this thread and I thought it was apropos given the discussion about 7.1.6 layouts. This announcement means that those with 7.1.6 and 9.1.4 layouts can finally have all those speakers make noise with DTS:X / Neural:X no longer limited to 11 channels. And, I also got confirmation that the silly quirk which prevents wides from making noise with a 9.1.2 layout with DTS:X native content should be resolved, so 9.1.4 layouts get an upgrade in addition to 7.1.6.

It also improves IMAX Enhanced, as the discrete CH object (channel 12) can now be produced by the CH speaker, vs phantom imaging between the center + front heights.

This means that we should see DTS:X Pro continue to trickle down to more models, which is exciting for those of us with higher channel count layouts but without Trinnov budgets.

ALSO - a new feature coming with these D+M models is *dual memory presets*, which means that those who want to optimize Atmos vs DTS:X/Auro layouts can now have separate configs with "Tops" vs "Heights" that can be recalled immediately.

The X6700H (which I should have my hands on soon) is going to be a VERY attractive model for moderate budget enthusiasts. Not only does it have 13ch processing, DTS:X Pro, and dual-memory presets, but it has the full "pre-amp mode" which disconnects the amp section making it significantly cleaner as a pre/pro. $2,499msrp for a 13ch pre-amp with 9.1.4/7.1.6 support, Auro3D, DTS:X Pro and IMAX is going to raise some eyebrows.
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post #58710 of 58876 Old 06-04-2020, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Lesmor View Post
I thought it might be in relation to the new 8K Denon models AVR-X2700H, AVR-X3700H, AVR-4700H and the AVR-X6700H due for release later this year but unfortunately the channel count is the same
although some will have DTS:X Pro
Not true -- see above -- the X6700H is getting an upgrade to 13ch processing.

Also note the "pre-amp mode" is trickling down to the X3700H and X4700H, which means the X3700H will be much more interesting for those seeking to step into separates.

Those who read/watch Audioholics know that Gene DellaSala has measured increased distortion on the RCA pre-outs of many AVR's due to feedback from the still-connected amp section. Units like the prior X3600H with assignable amps would show much cleaner pre-outs for the FR/FL channels when those amps were re-mapped to the rear heights. Now, that is available for all channels since "pre-amp mode" fully disconnects the amp section, making the X3700H a really amazing value for $1,199 as a dedicated, high quality 11ch immersive processor able to supply plenty of clean voltage to nearly any external amp you want to use.
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