The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 557 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #16681 of 54992 Old 12-27-2014, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Yes, the ceiling is your best option. It's what I did.
I can go about 1' out from top of ceiling, where it meets the wall.
I should make up a few more degrees correct? And I would imagine I could keep front height designation so I can still use DTS Neo X.
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post #16682 of 54992 Old 12-27-2014, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ThePrisoner View Post
I can go about 1' out from top of ceiling, where it meets the wall.
I should make up a few more degrees correct?
You mean put the speaker on the 8' ceiling, 1' into the room (in the direction of the rear of the room)? If so, the angle is arctan(4.5/10.5) which is 23 deg. To hit 30 deg, you'd need to pull them 4' into the room.

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And I would imagine I could keep front height designation so I can still use DTS Neo X.
Yes, mine are at 40-deg elevation and I call them Front Height so they can be used for Neo:X, Auro-3D, and Atmos.

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post #16683 of 54992 Old 12-27-2014, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Just watched Twister with DSU. A W E S O M E. Totally different experience!!!! Loved it

I installed my X5200 today and swapped the rear in-ceiling speakers to on wall , in the back, the rear in-ceiling are now my Atmos ceiling .
Ran 7.1.2, calibrated with Audyssey and to be honest did not notice anything different. The movie I watched was Guardians of the Galaxy
and it didn't appear any different than 7.1 . The ceiling Atmos are certainly a little far back for just the 2 speaker recommendations , the
fronts will go in later to make 7.1.4 .


I'll play with this a little more tomorrow and try TMNT. Maybe I'm not running the correct settings, TMNT may be a better reference to gauge
the system. We shall see
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post #16684 of 54992 Old 12-28-2014, 03:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePrisoner View Post
I can go about 1' out from top of ceiling, where it meets the wall.
I should make up a few more degrees correct? And I would imagine I could keep front height designation so I can still use DTS Neo X.
Correct, and in fact required if you want to share the forward height speakers across formats (Atmos, Auro 3D, DTS Neo:X) or use them with Top Middle mounted speakers.
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post #16685 of 54992 Old 12-28-2014, 05:19 AM
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Anyone have experience with 9.1.2 atmos they can share?

I'm building a set of front speakers and my old dynaudio contour s5.4 will be surplus. Instead of just selling them in a tough used price market I intend to use them for atmos. Since they are quite big the only option really is front wide. Right now I'm running 9.1 with heights. I'll then move those heights to ceiling position instead.
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post #16686 of 54992 Old 12-28-2014, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalvatronType_R View Post
A weird question:

-I'm not getting Atmos for now, I will wait for second and third gen AVRs with dts UHD built in

-so once I do, I don't want reflective speakers and I'd rather not drill holes for in-ceiling speakers

-as an alternative, how about mounting two wide passive soundbars on the ceiling, with both pointed toward the seats, and where I can run two sets of wires into each to get the .4 overhead channels?

-am I onto something here or should I stop smoking crack?
Seems like the front and back (or left and right depending on how you mount it) speakers (within each bar) will be too close to each other (and my not be within spec).
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post #16687 of 54992 Old 12-28-2014, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clausdk View Post
Anyone have experience with 9.1.2 atmos they can share?

I'm building a set of front speakers and my old dynaudio contour s5.4 will be surplus. Instead of just selling them in a tough used price market I intend to use them for atmos. Since they are quite big the only option really is front wide. Right now I'm running 9.1 with heights. I'll then move those heights to ceiling position instead.
Although Front Wide will definitely help to improve your front sound stage, important to note although they will be used with Atmos BDs, they will not be used with the Dolby Surround Upmixer for non-Atmos BDs. You can however, still use DTS Neo:X with the full 9.1.2 (Front Height) setup with non-Atmos BDs.
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post #16688 of 54992 Old 12-28-2014, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Although Front Wide will definitely help to improve your front sound stage, important to note although they will be used with Atmos BDs, they will not be used with the Dolby Surround Upmixer for non-Atmos BDs. You can however, still use DTS Neo:X with the full 9.1.2 (Front Height) setup with non-Atmos BDs.
Ok good point. I've been researching it and didn't come across that fact. Ok so an atmos encoded soundtrack will use the front wide but not the upmixer - strange.
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post #16689 of 54992 Old 12-28-2014, 06:42 AM
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^^
Correct. And as I prefer to keep my Front Wides, I will continue using DTS Neo:X vice DSU.
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post #16690 of 54992 Old 12-28-2014, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
^^
Correct. And as I prefer to keep my Front Wides, I will continue using DTS Neo:X vice DSU.
Have you, or anyone else, tested DSU vs DTS Neo:X with wides on non atmos content?
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post #16691 of 54992 Old 12-28-2014, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clausdk View Post
Have you, or anyone else, tested DSU vs DTS Neo:X with wides on non atmos content?

Because [perceived] upmixer performance depends both on source content, and on 'room+speaker geometry', it is likely that no one upmixer will always deliver better sound that all others (or even than "no upmixing"). With more than 500 non-immersive encoded DVD|BD discs already in my library, it seems like I should probably focus first on an AVR with multiple immersive upmixers, rather than looking for one supporting multiple immersive codecs!


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post #16692 of 54992 Old 12-28-2014, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by BamaDave View Post
Mike, can you provide details and perhaps photos on mounting the JBL speakers in your ceiling, please? I'm considering the 8340A's myself and this information would be very helpful.


Thanks! David
I don't have pictures and am away right now, but I can tell you how I mounted them. I cut two pieces of 5/8" x 5/8" channel, 4" longer than the width of the speaker. I then bolted the channel to the back of the speaker, using the four inserts in the back of the speaker. Since I have access above my ceiling, I installed blocking where I needed for mounting. Then just hold the speaker up to the ceiling and screw the channel to the blocking. I used 3.5" screws. Means I was able to screw into the full depth of the 1.5" thick blocking. So each speaker is held up by four screws into 1.5" of 2x4. The 2x4 blocking is secured to my trusses with the same 3.5" screws.
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post #16693 of 54992 Old 12-28-2014, 07:15 AM
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by clausdk View Post
Have you, or anyone else, tested DSU vs DTS Neo:X with wides on non atmos content?
The Marantz 7702 we own having the possibility to connect 13 speakers + 2 subs in a 9.2.4 configuration (same as the Denon X5200), we're using both DSU and DTS Neo X processings.

DSU in a 7.2.4 (FH/RH) configuration is used for films and electronic or diffuse music, when DTS Neo X 11 Music processing in a 9.2.2 configuration,gives better results with front centered music performances such as singers or orchestras.

Hugo
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post #16694 of 54992 Old 12-28-2014, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
People can use whatever they want. That still does not change what is recommended. Monopoles are what is recommended.
I was just pointing out that they can work well, never said monopoles weren't the Dolby rec. While we are at it let's not forget timber matched too.

Great thing about this forum is those who try different things, share their results on how it worked - good or bad. All I said is there are some of us using bi-poles with good results. It may not be necessary to replace a pair of bi-pole speakers if your switching to Atmos. Nothing wrong with not wasting $
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post #16695 of 54992 Old 12-28-2014, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by clausdk View Post
Have you, or anyone else, tested DSU vs DTS Neo:X with wides on non atmos content?
I use DTS Neo:X 11.1 routinely for music and DSU 7.1.4 for video sources. The main difference, as far as I am concerned, is that the front wides add much more to the musical sound stage than do the top rears (TM in my setup).

Also bear in mind that the exclusion of FW in DSU could very well change in future implementations. As was pointed out above, CEM's are just now starting to bring their products to market and there is a lot of room for improvements down the road. In fact, a number of us current users are eagerly awaiting a mainstream AVR that will allow a 9.1.6 Atmos configuration.
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post #16696 of 54992 Old 12-28-2014, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post
Because [perceived] upmixer performance depends both on source content, and on 'room+speaker geometry', it is likely that no one upmixer will always deliver better sound that all others (or even than "no upmixing"). With more than 500 non-immersive encoded DVD|BD discs already in my library, it seems like I should probably focus first on an AVR with multiple immersive upmixers, rather than looking for one supporting multiple immersive codecs!


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Good point.
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post #16697 of 54992 Old 12-28-2014, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post
Hi,



The Marantz 7702 we own having the possibility to connect 13 speakers + 2 subs in a 9.2.4 configuration (same as the Denon X5200), we're using both DSU and DTS Neo X processings.

DSU in a 7.2.4 (FH/RH) configuration is used for films and electronic or diffuse music, when DTS Neo X 11 Music processing in a 9.2.2 configuration,gives better results with front centered music performances such as singers or orchestras.

Hugo
Ok. So you have 9.1.4 installed and can switch between. Nice. Maybe I should do the same and simply keep the Dyn's as front wide but also install 4 ceiling.
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post #16698 of 54992 Old 12-28-2014, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by chi_guy50 View Post
I use DTS Neo:X 11.1 routinely for music and DSU 7.1.4 for video sources. The main difference, as far as I am concerned, is that the front wides add much more to the musical sound stage than do the top rears (TM in my setup).

Also bear in mind that the exclusion of FW in DSU could very well change in future implementations. As was pointed out above, CEM's are just now starting to bring their products to market and there is a lot of room for improvements down the road. In fact, a number of us current users are eagerly awaiting a mainstream AVR that will allow a 9.1.6 Atmos configuration.
Ok so you also have 13 speakers 9.1.4 and switch between them. I think you're right we will see beyond 7.1.4. I'm keeping my Dyn's!
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post #16699 of 54992 Old 12-28-2014, 07:41 AM
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I watched into the storm and it was awesome with DSU!
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post #16700 of 54992 Old 12-28-2014, 07:51 AM
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On my X5200 should my display indicate 7.1.2 for Neo:X ? It's only showing 7.1 on the screen .


Presently nly running two Atmos speakers in ceiling for now and to be honest , my first impression is not great. Not that it is any worst just not better than before running 7.1. The complexity of the options and setup is overwhelming to be honest , now wondering if this is not a big mistake.
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post #16701 of 54992 Old 12-28-2014, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
On my X5200 should my display indicate 7.1.2 for Neo:X ? It's only showing 7.1 on the screen .


Presently only running two Atmos speakers in ceiling for now and to be honest , my first impression is not great. Not that it is any worse just not better than before running 7.1. The complexity of the options and setup are overwhelming to be honest, now wondering if this is not a big mistake.
7.1.2 is a Dolby Atmos designation.

Some people bump the ceiling speaker volume up just a bit after calibration.

Listen up, studios! Dolby Atmos Lite™ print-outs must stop!!
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post #16702 of 54992 Old 12-28-2014, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
On my X5200 should my display indicate 7.1.2 for Neo:X ? It's only showing 7.1 on the screen .


Presently nly running two Atmos speakers in ceiling for now and to be honest , my first impression is not great. Not that it is any worst just not better than before running 7.1. The complexity of the options and setup is overwhelming to be honest , now wondering if this is not a big mistake.
Only if your "height" speakers are designated as Front Height.
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post #16703 of 54992 Old 12-28-2014, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
On my X5200 should my display indicate 7.1.2 for Neo:X ? It's only showing 7.1 on the screen .
Press the Info button. It'll show what the input signal is, what upmixer is being applied and which speakers are in use.


Quote:
Presently nly running two Atmos speakers in ceiling for now and to be honest , my first impression is not great. Not that it is any worst just not better than before running 7.1. The complexity of the options and setup is overwhelming to be honest , now wondering if this is not a big mistake.
How good it sounds often depends on exactly where the speakers are located. For example, you'll get a greater feeling of sounds coming from overhead if the Front Height speakers are closer to the seating instead of being right over the main speakers.

If you can experiment with different speaker positions, then you should. You won't damage the electronics.

If you want others to help suggest positions, please provide photographs of the listening environment. Alternatively, you could use a 3D design program like SweetHome3D, (which is free and relatively easy to use), to show us your layout.

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post #16704 of 54992 Old 12-28-2014, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chi_guy50 View Post
I use DTS Neo:X 11.1 routinely for music and DSU 7.1.4 for video sources. The main difference, as far as I am concerned, is that the front wides add much more to the musical sound stage than do the top rears (TM in my setup).

Also bear in mind that the exclusion of FW in DSU could very well change in future implementations. As was pointed out above, CEM's are just now starting to bring their products to market and there is a lot of room for improvements down the road. In fact, a number of us current users are eagerly awaiting a mainstream AVR that will allow a 9.1.6 Atmos configuration.
Thanks, I'm a wee bit confused(again)...just upgraded to a Marantz 7009. Running 7.2.4 including FWs and TF/TR..what speakers does your NEO 11.1 include? I would like a good balance between music and movies. Should I config my TF as FH to give me the balance so music would be NEO 7.2.2 (FWs and FHs) and ATMOS would be 7.2.4. Does that make sense?
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post #16705 of 54992 Old 12-28-2014, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by asharma View Post
Thanks, I'm a wee bit confused(again)...just upgraded to a Marantz 7009. Running 7.2.4 including FWs and TF/TR..what speakers does your NEO 11.1 include? I would like a good balance between music and movies. Should I config my TF as FH to give me the balance so music would be NEO 7.2.2 (FWs and FHs) and ATMOS would be 7.2.4. Does that make sense?
I believe in adhering to the commonly accepted terminology in order not to confuse others (and myself) any more than necessary. Therefore, when I refer to Neo:X 11.1 it should be unambiguously clear that I mean the standard 5.1 + SB + FH + FW. In order to allow for this mode in addition to Atmos 7.1.4, your front top-level pair must be designated as FH (also germane to an Auro setup). If you are not using SB, then at best you would get Neo:X (or A-DSX) 9.1.

Whether this makes sense for you is up to your ears to decide. See also the excellent points made by @SoundChex on this issue in his post above.
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post #16706 of 54992 Old 12-28-2014, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by clausdk View Post
Ok so you also have 13 speakers 9.1.4 and switch between them. I think you're right we will see beyond 7.1.4. I'm keeping my Dyn's!
Right, I have the same speaker setup--and arrived at the exact same conclusions regarding DSU vs. Neo:X--as Hugo, who posted his response just as I was typing mine (great minds think alike?).

BTW, bear in mind that with this setup on the D&M models you need to supplement the nine internal amps with at least four channels of external amplification.
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post #16707 of 54992 Old 12-28-2014, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chi_guy50 View Post
Right, I have the same speaker setup--and arrived at the exact same conclusions regarding DSU vs. Neo:X--as Hugo, who posted his response just as I was typing mine (great minds think alike?).

BTW, bear in mind that with this setup on the D&M models you need to supplement the nine internal amps with at least four channels of external amplification.
Yup. Looking at poweramps right now! I have 9 amp channels already but in the end could need 15 so might as well aim for a 7 ch. poweramp.
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post #16708 of 54992 Old 12-28-2014, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chi_guy50 View Post
I believe in adhering to the commonly accepted terminology in order not to confuse others (and myself) any more than necessary. Therefore, when I refer to Neo:X 11.1 it should be unambiguously clear that I mean the standard 5.1 + SB + FH + FW. In order to allow for this mode in addition to Atmos 7.1.4, your front top-level pair must be designated as FH (also germane to an Auro setup). If you are not using SB, then at best you would get Neo:X (or A-DSX) 9.1.

Whether this makes sense for you is up to your ears to decide. See also the excellent points made by @SoundChex on this issue in his post above.
Thanks, would u conclude that FHs carry the exact same information when configured as TFs? have you been able to notice any difference?
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post #16709 of 54992 Old 12-28-2014, 10:09 AM
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Bonjour Jeff,

Quote:
Originally Posted by chi_guy50 View Post
Right, I have the same speaker setup--and arrived at the exact same conclusions regarding DSU vs. Neo:X--as Hugo, who posted his response just as I was typing mine (great minds think alike?).
...
1-

2- to be honest, I've just followed the path you've paved as our 7702 arrived much later than your X5200 ,

3- concerning the Music reproduction and the distinction in the use of the processings : front centered titles such as (2 of my favorites Blurays) Andrea Bocelli "Vivere" and Legends of Jazz (ah "The Panther"...) are superb with a DTS Neo X 11 (9.2.2) Music processing... but in contrary Jean Michel Jarre's superb Aero DTS 5.1 DVD, is in overall better with a DSU 7.2.4 processing (the guy descending the stairs from behind = ) and even if the "immersiveness" of the Wides is really missing.

Amclt,

Hugo
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post #16710 of 54992 Old 12-28-2014, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
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Bonjour Jeff,

1-

2- to be honest, I've just followed the path you've paved as our 7702 arrived much later than your X5200 ,

3- concerning the Music reproduction and the distinction in the use of the processings : front centered titles such as (2 of my favorites Blurays) Andrea Bocelli "Vivere" and Legends of Jazz (ah "The Panther"...) are superb with a DTS Neo X 11 (9.2.2) Music processing... but in contrary Jean Michel Jarre's superb Aero DTS 5.1 DVD, is in overall better with a DSU 7.2.4 processing (the guy descending the stairs from behind = ) and even if the "immersiveness" of the Wides is really missing.

Amclt,

Hugo
Consider it a small payback for your numerous, detailed contributions to these discussions, both here and through links to other threads. Or, as my predecessor comrade-in-arms once put it: « La Fayette, nous voilà ! »

Je vous offre mes meilleurs voeux pour la nouvelle année, Jeff
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