The official Dolby Atmos thread (home theater version) - Page 884 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #26491 of 55188 Old 07-09-2015, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by frankpc3 View Post
darn! So I guess that means you wouldn't typically find it in a rental place.

Thanks!
I don't think so, check family video if there is one in your area. They have atmos rentals & have the original boxes on the shelves so you can check out the specs.
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post #26492 of 55188 Old 07-09-2015, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Which model exactly are you referring to the "reference series" as? I am planning to use the Ci-3160THX as the surrounds as they are very in-wall construction friendly and will match exactly (same drivers) the 5160s and match the Ci200RR too.

Great look forward to your impressions after treatments are installed - what treatments do you have planned?
Man if I had the money, 6x reference 5's + reference 4c & be done with it. I don't care how the room looks, but I think having 45,000 bucks worth of KEF reference would look pretty cool! I'm sure the timbre matching wouldn't be an issue
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post #26493 of 55188 Old 07-09-2015, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Aras_Volodka View Post
I don't think so, check family video if there is one in your area. They have atmos rentals & have the original boxes on the shelves so you can check out the specs.
Yes. I rented it there. But I didn't take the time to look at the box. Thanks!

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post #26494 of 55188 Old 07-10-2015, 12:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium View Post
According to Ethan Winer, the best spot is 38% distance from front to back. Second best is 38% from back to front.
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
So, if you've a 24' length room, with the display maybe three feet from the front, the best spot is about 9' away from the front wall, for about a 6' viewing distance from the display?
Always from the wall(s). The best acoustically balanced spot (MLP) is always calculated from the walls; the length, the width and the height (floor to ceiling).
It don't matter where your TV or speakers are, only your walls count, and where you put your couch (chair, MLP). ...And the height too.
The rule of thirds, or fifths, 7ths, 9ths, 11ths, 13ths, 15ths, 17ths, 19ths, 21ths, ...odd fractions are the best.

In Erwin's quote above, the best spot is 38% from the front wall for the room's length (front to back).
And the second best spot (MLP) is 38% from the back wall (back to front).

In your case your room is 24 feet long, so 38% from your front wall is 9.12 feet. This is the best spot. ...Or 6.12 feet from your display.
...And second best is 9.12 feet from your back wall, or 14.88 feet from your front wall. ...Which is 11.88 feet from your display.

* 2/5 = 40% (good spot too; odd fraction...fifths)
* 3/8 = 37.5% (even fraction...eights...very close to Ethan's recommendation)
* 5/13 = 38.46% (odd fraction...a little closer to 38%)
* 8/21 = 38.09% (odd fraction...even closer)
* 11/29 = 37.93% (odd fraction...a tiny bit closer still to 38%)

Ethan is an expert, so I'll go with 11/29 from the front wall (number one), or 11/29 from the back wall (number two) ... 37.93% is close enough to 38%

And then, there is the room's width...you do the same...odd fractions...to get close to the center, but not exactly @ the center.
For example, 14/29 of the room's width.

And last, the height; check your ears and adjust to the closest inch or fraction of an inch...always using odd fractions...your ears from the floor...or from the ceiling.

You will end up @ the perfect spot, like inside a vise grip. ...When you're there don't even move an inch.

But seriously, it's what I just mentioned above.

And furthermore, your center channel can also be measured that way, and from the front wall, from one of the side wall, and even from the floor.
And all your other speakers too; your two front main flankers...from the front wall, from their respective side walls, and the woofer driver(s) from the floor. And! You don't want the same distance from the front to side walls and the woofer drivers from the side wall to be equal to the distance from them to the floor.

Even the voice coil of your subwoofer; it should not have the same distance to any wall and floor. ...They should be all different, and as all your speakers; never a multiple of each other.

Acoustics is a serious science, and with precise mathematics. ...Very true. ...Every surface in your room is to be taken into consideration as to where you sit, where your speakers and subwoofers are positioned, with precise measurements. You have options though, because of your furniture, etc.
...From best positions to second best, third, fourth, fifth, etc.

Regarding subwoofers; usually against the longest wall(s) of your room...so that the standing waves can travel the furthest without being obstructed or bounced back by shorter walls. ...And the rule of thirds, fifths, etc., still applies.

Floyd E. Toole has some coordinates on mutiple subwoofer's positioning for various room's shapes. ..."L" shaped for example...rectangles...square like 12' (L) x 12' (W) x12' (H) is bad, real bad. There are some ideal room's dimensions, and those too follow some good mathematical algorithms for best sound acoustics. A room of 24' x 12' x 8' is no good...all multiples of 4.

Books and the Internet abound on best acoustics.

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post #26495 of 55188 Old 07-10-2015, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
So, if you've a 24' length room, with the display maybe three feet from the front, the best spot is about 9' away from the front wall, for about a 6' viewing distance from the display?
Yeah, it's not practical in most rooms unless you have a smallish screen. I am near 38% of the back wall. Using a projection screen.

+1 What Bob says. There's good info about "best" room ratio's @SalF ord (UK) University. There are plenty of good room ratio's, depending on the total size:
http://www.acoustics.salford.ac.uk/a.../?content=best

These best ratio's are independent from room size:
1: 2.16 : 2.96
1: 2.16 : 2.97
1: 2.16 : 2.98
1: 2.17 : 2.96
1: 2.17 : 2.97
1: 2.17 : 2.98
1: 2.17 : 2.99
1: 2.18 : 2.97
1: 2.18 : 2.98
1: 2.18 : 2.99
1: 2.18 : 3
1: 2.19 : 2.99
1: 2.19 : 3
1: 2.19 : 3.01
1: 2.19 : 3.02
1: 2.2 : 3.01
1: 2.2 : 3.02
1: 2.2 : 3.03
1: 2.21 : 3.02
1: 2.21 : 3.03
1: 2.22 : 3.03
1: 2.22 : 3.04

It's the room, stupid!

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post #26496 of 55188 Old 07-10-2015, 06:37 AM
 
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8 feet is good, my ceiling is only 6'11" and the ceiling speakers sound great.
Is the 6'11" distance from MLP to ceiling OR floor to ceiling?
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post #26497 of 55188 Old 07-10-2015, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium View Post
According to Ethan Winer, the best spot is 38% distance from front to back. Second best is 38% from back to front.

I would like to do some more reading on this , do you have a link to this information?




Thanks!

Al
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post #26498 of 55188 Old 07-10-2015, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Al Sherwood View Post
I would like to do some more reading on this , do you have a link to this information?




Thanks!
I've had success in making improvements in my 2 channel room using his articles here... http://realtraps.com/articles.htm
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post #26499 of 55188 Old 07-10-2015, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aras_Volodka View Post
8 feet is good, my ceiling is only 6'11" and the ceiling speakers sound great.
Is the 6'11" distance from MLP to ceiling OR floor to ceiling?
Floor to ceiling unfortunately... But even at that height things are sounding good. With 8 feet you have plenty of space!
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post #26500 of 55188 Old 07-10-2015, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
So, if you've a 24' length room, with the display maybe three feet from the front, the best spot is about 9' away from the front wall, for about a 6' viewing distance from the display?
If the display is a 60 inch plasma, that would be about right. BTW, Ethan does say that it would be a bit nuts to sit 38% from the front if you have a decent size screen - he says in that case, sit 38% from the back, if possible

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post #26501 of 55188 Old 07-10-2015, 09:08 AM
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post #26502 of 55188 Old 07-10-2015, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
If the display is a 60 inch plasma, that would be about right.

Which means I planned wisely . 55" actually, and more like 8.75' than 9', but essentially correct.


Quote:
BTW, Ethan does say that it would be a bit nuts to sit 38% from the front if you have a decent size screen - he says in that case, sit 38% from the back, if possible

I'll remember that if/when we have a projector and a 100' or more screen LOL...

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post #26503 of 55188 Old 07-10-2015, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
If the display is a 60 inch plasma, that would be about right. BTW, Ethan does say that it would be a bit nuts to sit 38% from the front if you have a decent size screen - he says in that case, sit 38% from the back, if possible
I sit 6 feet from the 65". It may have something to do with me sitting up close to the canvas all day long. Though I recently moved it a little further for sound due to the center channel.
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post #26504 of 55188 Old 07-10-2015, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
The article by Ethan which mentions the 38% 'rule' is here: http://realtraps.com/art_room-setup.htm
Interestingly he also mentions surrounds at ear level:

Quote:
Note that the tweeters in the rear surround speakers should also be at ear height. Some people recommend placing the surround speakers high up on the side or rear walls, mimicking the setup of some commercial movie theaters. But that's a throwback to years past, when a single rear channel contained the surround information rather than separate channels as in today's 5.1 soundtracks. Back then, some movie theaters placed one or more speakers high up on the rear wall to increase ambience by including the room's natural reverb. But that was long ago, and in theaters much larger than anyone's living room.

Also it never even occured to me to consciously avoid the vertical axis midpoint, probably because neither my head nor any of my speakers are exactly half way up the vertical dimension of my room. But it's obvious of course, and something I'll keep in mind -- if I go as planned and do an AT screen with speakers placed behind, I'll make sure to keep them around 30-40% of room height.

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post #26505 of 55188 Old 07-10-2015, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Interestingly he also mentions surrounds at ear level:
But his explanation for why the surrounds are raised in commercial movie theatres is incorrect (i.e., has nothing to do with a mono surround channel nor taking advantage of the theatre's reverb).
Quote:
Also it never even occured to me to consciously avoid the vertical axis midpoint, probably because neither my head nor any of my speakers are exactly half way up the vertical dimension of my room.
Placing the woofer of your surround speakers exactly half way up the vertical dimension will cancel all odd-order height modes (in your particular room: 75Hz, 226Hz, 377Hz, etc).

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post #26506 of 55188 Old 07-10-2015, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Al Sherwood View Post
I would like to do some more reading on this , do you have a link to this information?




Thanks!
Besides RealTraps, there's more (older) info on Ethan's own website:
http://ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html#top
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post #26507 of 55188 Old 07-10-2015, 11:11 AM
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[QUOTE=sdurani;35667442]
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Interestingly he also mentions surrounds at ear level:
But his explanation for why the surrounds are raised in commercial movie theatres is incorrect (i.e., has nothing to do with a mono surround channel nor taking advantage of the theatre's reverb). in an ht scenario it might be advantageous to place speakers @ ear level though wouldn't it? Providing more contrast between surrounds and heights that otherwise might mud the sound due to their close proximity?
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post #26508 of 55188 Old 07-10-2015, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Aras_Volodka View Post
...in an ht scenario it might be advantageous to place speakers @ ear level though wouldn't it? Providing more contrast between surrounds and heights that otherwise might mud the sound due to their close proximity?
That's the only reason I would lower the surround speakers: to get better separation between sounds around me vs sounds above me.

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post #26509 of 55188 Old 07-10-2015, 01:37 PM
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My multifunctional homecinema install is progressing nicely (at last!). However, this week I thought about raising the front seats by 1/2 foot, which results in ear level at 3 1/2 feet. It will help for a better viewing of the screen which is centered at slightly more than 4 feet.

If I do this, I can think about raising the coaxial surrounds to 4' instead of 3'. The speakers are 3' height and have the coaxial + 2 passive radiators. So instead of PR/PR/coax it would be PR/coax/PR. This would also better mimic the giant L+R speakers (with 24" SEOS).

Only downside I can think of is less separation between ear level speakers and Top speakers.

Thoughts?

Building a 9.1.6 HT: DIYSG Titan LX [LCR] • Cinema 10 Max [Surrounds] • Volt 10 altered and added passive radiators [Tops] • LLT 550 liter Mal-x 18" subs [2] • XPR-5 • Marantz MM8003 [2] • NU6000 • XMC-1 [RMC-1 with Dirac Unison wanted] • PT AT6000E • 130" Seymour Center XD • Oppo 103EU
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post #26510 of 55188 Old 07-10-2015, 01:57 PM
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Quick note for fellow Canadians, the Gunman edition we have here is not edited by the same company and does not have the Atmos soundtrack... We need to order from Amazon.com or similar place if we want it...

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post #26511 of 55188 Old 07-10-2015, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
That's the only reason I would lower the surround speakers: to get better separation between sounds around me vs sounds above me.

Whether or not one believes ATSC 3.0 will be implemented "soon", the original three major aspirants to provide the ATSC 3.0 Audio System codec & technology--Dolby, DTS, plus a consortium of Fraunhofer, Technicolor & Qualcomm--presumably spent significant effort to persuade ATSC to require "good" speaker locations in the requirements document for the 2.0, 5.1, 7.1+4, and 22.2 test configurations. See attached extract from the requirements doc for details (link).


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File Type: pdf S34-112r4-ATSC-3-Audio-CfP_p28.pdf (46.2 KB, 53 views)

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post #26512 of 55188 Old 07-11-2015, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium View Post
My multifunctional homecinema install is progressing nicely (at last!). However, this week I thought about raising the front seats by 1/2 foot, which results in ear level at 3 1/2 feet. It will help for a better viewing of the screen which is centered at slightly more than 4 feet.

If I do this, I can think about raising the coaxial surrounds to 4' instead of 3'. The speakers are 3' height and have the coaxial + 2 passive radiators. So instead of PR/PR/coax it would be PR/coax/PR. This would also better mimic the giant L+R speakers (with 24" SEOS).

Only downside I can think of is less separation between ear level speakers and Top speakers.

Thoughts?
What is the height of your tops or the distance between if you bump them up? By moving up the seats you've already altered the distance between speakers.

There is no perfect display, quit looking for faults and enjoy

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post #26513 of 55188 Old 07-11-2015, 10:24 AM
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What is the height of your tops or the distance between if you bump them up? By moving up the seats you've already altered the distance between speakers.
The Top speakers are still 45° up from the raised ear level. Ceiling is 260 cm (8'8"), tops are on-ceiling and 20 cm height, meaning a 240 cm height (8 feet). They are 8 feet apart.

The tweeter+mid of the Side Surround (and the Wides) are either 1/2 foot below or 1/2 foot above the raised ear level.

Which is best?

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post #26514 of 55188 Old 07-11-2015, 01:46 PM
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^ I would try them out where they are and see how they sound. You can always experiment and raise one of the side surrounds up to see if it makes a difference. Don't forget Atmos speaker placement is forgiving - as a bunch of us can attest to being true. Still if given the option I would opt for the greater separation if keeping them lower isn't interfering with the sound.

There is no perfect display, quit looking for faults and enjoy

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post #26515 of 55188 Old 07-11-2015, 01:50 PM
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Bump

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post #26516 of 55188 Old 07-11-2015, 02:03 PM
 
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Quick note for fellow Canadians, the Gunman edition we have here is not edited by the same company and does not have the Atmos soundtrack... We need to order from Amazon.com or similar place if we want it...
Oh that's a real bummer! ...Now not only we have to order our 3D Disney Blu-ray movies from overseas but also get our Universal studios Dolby Atmos Blu-rays from the USA. ...I guess Dolby Atmos ain't that popular here in Canada, in the eyes of Universal studios.

Maybe it will when UHD Blu-ray is here?
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post #26517 of 55188 Old 07-11-2015, 03:45 PM
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Oh that's a real bummer! ...Now not only we have to order our 3D Disney Blu-ray movies from overseas but also get our Universal studios Dolby Atmos Blu-rays from the USA. ...I guess Dolby Atmos ain't that popular here in Canada, in the eyes of Universal studios.

Maybe it will when UHD Blu-ray is here?
Yeah I don't think it's that bad, it seems to be a distribution right. It's not Universal distributing the movie on Blu-ray in Canada...

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post #26518 of 55188 Old 07-11-2015, 04:09 PM
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I gave Elevation pictures(the ones who distributed the gunman) a hell of a blast over this. I ended up retuning the Canadian edition I bought back to Best Buy and purchasing it from Amazon.com instead and if I have to I'll purchase all my BD's from them in the future.
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post #26519 of 55188 Old 07-11-2015, 04:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SteveTheGeek View Post
Yeah I don't think it's that bad, it seems to be a distribution right. It's not Universal distributing the movie on Blu-ray in Canada...
You don't think it's that bad!

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post #26520 of 55188 Old 07-11-2015, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lozin View Post
I gave Elevation pictures(the ones who distributed the gunman) a hell of a blast over this. I ended up retuning the Canadian edition I bought back to Best Buy and purchasing it from Amazon.com instead and if I have to I'll purchase all my BD's from them in the future.
Did Elevation reply to you? I'm curious!

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