Classe Sigma Series - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 400 Old 12-17-2014, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by mkbruce View Post
The Classe iPhone app is almost useless - it doesn't even show the right sources, so switching inputs using it is impossible.
I just auditioned the Sigma SSP and AMP5 at my local shop. For the demo, we used the Linn Kinsky app to control music playback. It worked, but not as well as with my Linn Majik DSI. I'll be looking for a good iPad/iPhone app solution when I get my SSP, which I've decided to do after this audition.

My main concern was with 2 channel playback, and the performance of the SSP's DAC. We had set up the SSP (and AMP5) to be sourced from an Auralic Vega DAC into the analog inputs, as well as feeding a TOS signal from the Auralic Aries streamer. For DAC comparison I felt that the Vega was a bit more natural, particularly with vocals, but not dramatically so. One thing my dealer and I noticed is that we had to dial down the Vega's (undefeatable) volume control to about 80, or the sound through the SSP was a bit harsh. I had brought along an SPL meter to keep things at fairly even sound levels.

I had also brought in my Classe CAP-2100 integrated, and we compared the Vega feeding both the SSP/AMP5 combination to that. There wasn't an enormous difference, but the Sigma combination sounded a bit more controlled. We attributed this to the CAP-2100 being "only" 100 Watts, versus the 200 Watts the AMP5 produces. (All done driving B&W 804D's - the closest they had handy to my 805D's). I certainly didn't feel I was missing anything with the AMP5's Class D amplification vs the Class A/B from the 2100.

All in all, I'm impressed enough to put in my order after the holidays (and possibly after selling the 2100). I may add an external DAC down the line, though selections for auditioning in the Seattle area are limited (especially want to hear the PS Audio DirectStream DAC and the Luxman DA-06), but I think the Sigma will be a nice upgrade from my CAP-2100/Linn Majik setup - with surround sound to boot.
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post #32 of 400 Old 12-17-2014, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mkbruce View Post
I use a Harmony Touch. Not perfect, but about the best solution I have found. My biggest complaint is not being able to turn off certain functions that I don't use, such as touch-screen gestures. Programming and setup is also a bit of a pain to get perfect. It's relatively easy to get functional using default devices and settings downloaded from Logitech (assuming they have IR codes for the devices you need - but they are quick to add them if you provide the information), but it's the tweaking of buttons and layout to get it 'just right' that takes time.
I'm not sure why they made the remote so minimal. Sounds like they are trying to push the touchscreen / control app. I'll have to look into the Logitech.

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I haven't experienced any popping or noise or other HDMI handshake issues. Switching HDMI inputs is not particularly fast (1-2 seconds), but so far seems very reliable. Switching audio-only sources (analog, SPDIF and TosLink) is very fast as expected.
Thanks! Good to hear, though the switching not being fast is kinda a bummer. Anyone know how this compares to Krell Foundation? Supposed to have fast switching HDMI.

Do you know if activating audio via Airplay will wake and switch the SSP and automatically turn on the AMP?
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post #33 of 400 Old 12-18-2014, 07:00 AM
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Do you know if activating audio via Airplay will wake and switch the SSP and automatically turn on the AMP?
Yes - if "Wake on LAN" is selected on the SigmaSSP, then it will power on, switch inputs and start playing when an Airplay stream is detected. I confirmed that this works. There is a 2-3 second delay between starting the stream and the SSP powering on and starting to play, but this is expected.
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post #34 of 400 Old 12-18-2014, 10:40 AM
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Hello,

Does the Sigma employ a digital out (not as external zone, thou)?

How about room calibration... How sofisticated is it? In my case I would hire a calibrator to perform the measurement...

Thank you for posting your impressions.
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post #35 of 400 Old 12-18-2014, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by orologio View Post
Hello,

Does the Sigma employ a digital out (not as external zone, thou)?

How about room calibration... How sofisticated is it? In my case I would hire a calibrator to perform the measurement...

Thank you for posting your impressions.
Yes - it has a single Coax Digital output, as well as HDMI out. There is no second zone support.

The Sigma has a parametric EQ with up to nine filters for each speaker channel as well as a simple tone control, but no automatic room calibration (Audessey, Dirac, etc.). I'm not using the EQ features, so I can't comment on its effectiveness.
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post #36 of 400 Old 12-23-2014, 05:46 PM
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Classe has released a firmware update for the Sigma SSP with the following changes:

 Fixed Input offset
 Fixed Noise generator for 2.0 and 2.1 configurations and fixed the subW which was active on small
channels.
 Fixed Tone control to retain current settings through a power and standby cycle
 Fixed eBass issue where the subW would turn off with all small configuration and eBass enabled
 Fixed ip control for tone
 Fixed loss of video status when switching between sources with the same video format.
 Fixed audio artifacts generated when muting and unmuting
 Fixed audio artifacts when switching from rear USB to front USB
 Changed the factory default for main speakers to large for all configurations
 Added OSD controls and vertical OSD shift
 Added Pink Noise generator for EQ setup.
 Added Automation status controls (STAT) for Volume, Configuration, Mode, Power, Audio and Video
 Added Automation wake on input change
 Added screens for OSD controls and OSD vertical shift
 Adjusted page title centering for pages with more buttons
 Changed button placement on discrete tone control page
 Fixed lip sync page to allow visual button hit when using remote control
 Fixed EDID generator to properly address CEC
 Fixed default EDID
 Fixed ARC
 Fixed TX audio for 2D source material
 Fixed deep color support
 

Haven't tried it yet, but looking forward to the control of OSD display. This may also fix the issue I came across with my PS3 not syncing video when Deep Color is enabled.
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post #37 of 400 Old 12-31-2014, 07:45 PM
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The firmware update did indeed fix the HDMI Deep Color issue I had experienced.

The update also gives full control over what events cause the On-Screen Display to be trigged (much like that of the SSP-800).

Update took about 10 minutes - there was little feedback from the SSP during the update (nothing displayed on the screen).
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post #38 of 400 Old 01-18-2015, 05:30 PM
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curious to know some impressions about this SSP. Im considering it. Has anyone done a comparison between it and the SSP 800? If so what did you notice?
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post #39 of 400 Old 01-18-2015, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post
curious to know some impressions about this SSP. Im considering it. Has anyone done a comparison between it and the SSP 800? If so what did you notice?
Demoed both at home back-to-back. Found that the Sigma had a bit more detail and sounded "clearer" for lack of a better word. The overall sound was similar - not too warm and not too bright - but the Sigma was just a bit tighter in the bass, smoother in the mids and cleaner in the highs. The SSP-800 sounded just like our current SSP-75, so other than getting HDMI switching and new multi-channel formats there was no real up-side.

The Sigma was new out of the box and the SSP-800 was an older model (version 2) with old firmware and had been used as a store demo for a couple of years. The main signal paths tested were balanced analog input to balanced outputs with all processing and DSP functions disabled. Also tried Coax digital input from the same source but liked the internal DAC of the source (SlimDevices Transporter) better. Didn't do any critical listening of multi-channel sources.

For us, it was pretty clear that the Sigma was the winner - we bought it. There were a few firmware bugs and missing features, but the first Classe update fixed those.

other equipment:
Classe CA-200 amp (fronts)
Classe CAV-75 (center bi-amped, rears bridged)
Mirage OM-6 fronts
Mirage OM-C2 center
Mirage OM-R2 rears
Sunfire TrueSub Mk II (LFE only)
Nordost SPM/Red Dawn interconnects and speaker cables
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post #40 of 400 Old 01-18-2015, 07:56 PM
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wow thats surprising. I would have asusmed Classe would purposely make the Sigma less of a performer then the 800. I supposed lots is subjective, but interesting nonetheless.

How warm does the Sigma get? Could you see it in a place will limited breathing room? What amp are you using?
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post #41 of 400 Old 01-19-2015, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by vancouver View Post
wow thats surprising. I would have asusmed Classe would purposely make the Sigma less of a performer then the 800. I supposed lots is subjective, but interesting nonetheless.

How warm does the Sigma get? Could you see it in a place will limited breathing room? What amp are you using?
We were surprised as well - we really wanted to like the SSP-800 more, but didn't.

The Sigma stays quite cool - power consumption is spec'd at 35W, so it really can't get very warm. We use a Classe CA-200 amp for the fronts and a CAV-75 for the center (bi-amped using two channels) and rears (bridged pairs). The CA-200 consumes 200W idle, so it gets pretty warm doing nothing, while the CAV-75 stays cool even when loaded. All are on independent shelves in an open cabinet with no sides or back.

Classe designed the Sigma line to run cool so that you can stack the SSP directly on top of the matching amps. Personally I'm not really onboard the whole class-D amp bandwagon, but Classe claims to have gotten it right.
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post #42 of 400 Old 01-19-2015, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by mkbruce View Post
We were surprised as well - we really wanted to like the SSP-800 more, but didn't.

The Sigma stays quite cool - power consumption is spec'd at 35W, so it really can't get very warm. We use a Classe CA-200 amp for the fronts and a CAV-75 for the center (bi-amped using two channels) and rears (bridged pairs). The CA-200 consumes 200W idle, so it gets pretty warm doing nothing, while the CAV-75 stays cool even when loaded. All are on independent shelves in an open cabinet with no sides or back.

Classe designed the Sigma line to run cool so that you can stack the SSP directly on top of the matching amps. Personally I'm not really onboard the whole class-D amp bandwagon, but Classe claims to have gotten it right.
I have a Classe CA 5100 amp. Biggest thing holding me back from the sigma at this point is probably that it doesnt match my amp, and I dont want to trade it in for a Classe D. I really wish the sigma would have come packaged in something like the SSP 300 case.
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post #43 of 400 Old 01-19-2015, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by vancouver View Post
I have a Classe CA 5100 amp. Biggest thing holding me back from the sigma at this point is probably that it doesnt match my amp, and I dont want to trade it in for a Classe D. I really wish the sigma would have come packaged in something like the SSP 300 case.
Agreed - the completely different look of the Sigma line did throw us as well, but we got over it quickly. Our home theater/listening room equipment is a not at all homogenous, so one more different component didn't make much difference. None of it is particularly beautiful to look at (although the Delta series is almost artwork) - particularly our Mirage fronts - but damn does it sound good
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post #44 of 400 Old 01-19-2015, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Tank_PD View Post
I'm not sure why they made the remote so minimal. Sounds like they are trying to push the touchscreen / control app. I'll have to look into the Logitech.



Thanks! Good to hear, though the switching not being fast is kinda a bummer. Anyone know how this compares to Krell Foundation? Supposed to have fast switching HDMI.

Do you know if activating audio via Airplay will wake and switch the SSP and automatically turn on the AMP?

I can tell you guys this. We have one on our showroom floor and the B&W Group wrote a Control4 IP/serial driver for this unit that works like a champ !
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post #45 of 400 Old 01-19-2015, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tank_PD View Post
I'm not sure why they made the remote so minimal. Sounds like they are trying to push the touchscreen / control app. I'll have to look into the Logitech.
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Originally Posted by guinness2 View Post
I can tell you guys this. We have one on our showroom floor and the B&W Group wrote a Control4 IP/serial driver for this unit that works like a champ !
So yes to trying to push the touchscreen / control app?
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post #46 of 400 Old 01-19-2015, 11:40 AM
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They're certainly not trying to control the universal remote market, or the iPhone control app business. The Classe iPhone app is borderline useless - it doesn't even show the input list correctly - definitely not a part of the project that received significant engineering time. As for the included remote, it's functional in that it turns the unit on and off, controls volume, lets you navigate the menu system enough to get started, but is not likely to be used beyond that. My guess is that most uses of this type of equipment use a Harmony-like programmable remote or some other form of control (e.g. Control4, Crestron, Xantech, etc.). Personally, I use a Harmony Touch - it's flexible and customizable enough. Classe does provide a PDF of all the IR codes known to the Sigma, and Logitech was very accommodating in adding the device (less than 24 hour turnaround), and correcting a few errors in the buttons.
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post #47 of 400 Old 01-19-2015, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mkbruce View Post
They're certainly not trying to control the universal remote market, or the iPhone control app business. The Classe iPhone app is borderline useless - it doesn't even show the input list correctly - definitely not a part of the project that received significant engineering time. As for the included remote, it's functional in that it turns the unit on and off, controls volume, lets you navigate the menu system enough to get started, but is not likely to be used beyond that. My guess is that most uses of this type of equipment use a Harmony-like programmable remote or some other form of control (e.g. Control4, Crestron, Xantech, etc.). Personally, I use a Harmony Touch - it's flexible and customizable enough. Classe does provide a PDF of all the IR codes known to the Sigma, and Logitech was very accommodating in adding the device (less than 24 hour turnaround), and correcting a few errors in the buttons.
That is true. When you use apps to control AV products it becomes a PITA going back and forth between apps of different devices and different manufacturers. Beyond using IR codes, there are other things you can control and receive like volume ramp speeds, device state and other data. I've started to notice that many manufacturers are starting to build control drivers and modules as a selling tool to sell their products.
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post #48 of 400 Old 01-20-2015, 09:38 AM
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The Classe iPhone app is borderline useless - it doesn't even show the input list correctly
I picked up my Sigma SSP and AMP5 last week. I updated the firmware right away, downloaded the iPhone app, and it's correctly displaying and switching the inputs I have configured. After adding a new input configuration I didn't see the change reflected in the iPhone app for quite a while - I think I put the SSP into Standby, and shut down and relaunched the iPhone app to get the change reflected.

On my iPad, the app won't change mode when I use the tablet in landscape position, which is annoying. On the other hand, using the "remote" function of the iPhone app is a lot more useful than the Classe remote.

Finally, for those wanting to use the SSP with other amplifiers, it does not include a 12v trigger out. You can control Classe amps through the CANBUS connection, but you'll have to figure out another solution if you want to use a non-Classe amplifier.
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post #49 of 400 Old 01-20-2015, 09:54 AM
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Finally, for those wanting to use the SSP with other amplifiers, it does not include a 12v trigger out. You can control Classe amps through the CANBUS connection, but you'll have to figure out another solution if you want to use a non-Classe amplifier.
no 12 v triggers?!

Wow that alone is actually going to stop my from buying this, and i have a classe amp. I use the triggers to control other components in my system. At 5k it needs to have basics like that.

Im out.
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post #50 of 400 Old 01-20-2015, 10:05 AM
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no 12 v triggers?!

Wow that alone is actually going to stop my from buying this, and i have a classe amp. I use the triggers to control other components in my system. At 5k it needs to have basics like that.

Im out.
You can, of course, use the trigger out on your Classe amp to control your other components, but I agree - omitting the trigger out on the SSP was a big surprise to me.
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post #51 of 400 Old 01-20-2015, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by vancouver View Post
I have a Classe CA 5100 amp. Biggest thing holding me back from the sigma at this point is probably that it doesnt match my amp, and I dont want to trade it in for a Classe D. I really wish the sigma would have come packaged in something like the SSP 300 case.
I'm also a huge fan of the Delta series look, though I think both the CT line and the new Sigma line are attractive as well. I wouldn't discount what Classe has been able to do with their new class D amps (CA-D200, Sigma AMP2 and AMP5) though without giving them a serious audition. Comparing the AMP5 to my CAP-2100, I didn't hear any of the class D deficiencies I've heard in other implementations, though some of the sales people at my dealer (Definitive Audio) said they think the Sigma sounds "drier" than the CA amps. As with everything in this hobby, you have to trust your own ears.
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post #52 of 400 Old 01-20-2015, 03:50 PM
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You can, of course, use the trigger out on your Classe amp to control your other components, but I agree - omitting the trigger out on the SSP was a big surprise to me.
I'm hoping that the rear USB port powers down when the SSP turns off (haven't checked yet). I can then use it to trigger my CA-200 and CAV-75. Even those amps had an annoying trigger behavior - they required a pulse to turn on and a pulse to turn off - i.e. they were not level sensitive to the trigger. A Xantech 599-00 pulsed switching module solved this problem for when connecting to my old SSP-75 and I'm hoping I can re-use it here.
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post #53 of 400 Old 01-20-2015, 04:15 PM
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I'm hoping that the rear USB port powers down when the SSP turns off (haven't checked yet). I can then use it to trigger my CA-200 and CAV-75. Even those amps had an annoying trigger behavior - they required a pulse to turn on and a pulse to turn off - i.e. they were not level sensitive to the trigger.
Did the CAV-75 have a trigger input? From the manual available at the Classe site, it looks like the only control connection is a "remote on/off" connector that looks like an ethernet plug (early version of CANBUS?). Couldn't find the manual for the CA-200, but the CA-201 also looks like it only has IR ports and no trigger ports.
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post #54 of 400 Old 01-20-2015, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by BetterSound View Post
Did the CAV-75 have a trigger input? From the manual available at the Classe site, it looks like the only control connection is a "remote on/off" connector that looks like an ethernet plug (early version of CANBUS?). Couldn't find the manual for the CA-200, but the CA-201 also looks like it only has IR ports and no trigger ports.
Yes and no - it did have a RJ-12 6-pin input port that could trigger the amp on or off with a pulse - it was not CANBUS in any way. Classe provided details on the interface and actually sold a device (the RC-1 remote interface) that provided the signals desired by amps with this connector. I have looked for this device, but have never found one.
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post #55 of 400 Old 01-20-2015, 08:30 PM
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The Delta series is much better looking then sigma. As much as I want the sigma to look as it it just doesnt, and for me at the high end things need to look as good as they sound.

Its to bad they didnt keep the delta look through out. Its Classe's signature much like McIntosh has its signature look.
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post #56 of 400 Old 01-24-2015, 07:10 PM
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no 12 v triggers?!

Wow that alone is actually going to stop my from buying this, and i have a classe amp. I use the triggers to control other components in my system. At 5k it needs to have basics like that.

Im out.
The Sigma does have CANBUS, as does your CA-5100. That obviates the need for a trigger output.
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post #57 of 400 Old 01-24-2015, 07:19 PM
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The Sigma does have CANBUS, as does your CA-5100. That obviates the need for a trigger output.
it does, but I need to control a pair of B&O 8000s in another room by 12v, and in addition my Oppo HA1.
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post #58 of 400 Old 01-31-2015, 12:18 AM
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it does, but I need to control a pair of B&O 8000s in another room by 12v, and in addition my Oppo HA1.
If you use CANBUS to power on the CA-5100, can't you just use the trigger out from it to your HA1 trigger in, and the HA1 trigger out to your B&O setup?
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post #59 of 400 Old 01-31-2015, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by BetterSound View Post
If you use CANBUS to power on the CA-5100, can't you just use the trigger out from it to your HA1 trigger in, and the HA1 trigger out to your B&O setup?
wouldnt that mean that every time I want the B&O speakers on I would have to turn the amp on, or can I somehow control that trigger via canbus independent off the amps power status?

I supposed if its tied to the power status of the amp its not the end of the world.
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post #60 of 400 Old 01-31-2015, 03:08 PM
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wouldnt that mean that every time I want the B&O speakers on I would have to turn the amp on, or can I somehow control that trigger via canbus independent off the amps power status?

I supposed if its tied to the power status of the amp its not the end of the world.
I guess I'm not understanding how you want to configure this. Seems you'd still have the CA-5100 powering up regardless of whether you use the CANBUS connection from the Sigma SSP or a trigger out connection. If you connect so the processor powers up your CA-5100, your HA1 and your B&O speakers, they're all going to go on when you turn on the processor.
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